Almost There

[New Leaf]

His attitude is so pessimistic and negative..He is so defiant and unwilling to do anything to help himself, it is so hard to understand how he can make it..Was your son that adamant? This guy is tough completely convinced that his problem is people, places and things, not him!

Hi Girl,
Been there, done that with d cs, always someone elses' fault, especially mine. SIGH.
Hang in there Carolita. They are really ornery when things change.
Deep breaths, one day at a time.
I am sorry I don't have advice for you on the lease.
Hopefully someone else will come along who is familiar.
This is all so hard, and you are doing the right thing.
Take care!
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Carolita2]

Hi Girl,
Been there, done that with d cs, always someone elses' fault, especially mine. SIGH.
Hang in there Carolita. They are really ornery when things change.
Deep breaths, one day at a time.
I am sorry I don't have advice for you on the lease.
Hopefully someone else will come along who is familiar.
This is all so hard, and you are doing the right thing.
Take care!
(((HUGS)))
leafy

Thanks Leafy! Gotta put this out there as the time draws near, 8 days left..we are getting more anxious..Son has threatened not to leave apartment on designated day!
Thinking this will create a crisis and or legal problem. Maybe mental health professionals will be called in..this might be positive..
Here's the the thing that I haven't disclosed, only because this saga is 20 years long and I am writing this through tears, recalling all this suffering and really wondering how we have kept are lives so in tact throughout..
At least 2 times in the past 8 years my son has become delusional..Once at the end of a 3 month stint in rehab for heroin addiction. And once after returning home, going through withdrawal at home, after a 6 week stint of being homeless in Seattle...so both times after getting clean..These stints lasted for a few months and both times he he wound up in mental health facilities for weeks. They diagnosed bi-polar at that time but since he recovered completely and had no symptoms afterwards, he never believed he was bi-polar and that it was all due to coming off heavy prolonged drug use.
But thinking about this is where my reservations come in about letting go completely. He seems incapable of working, lives in squalor, has irrational outbursts. I know all these behaviors overlap with the symptoms of addiction but has mostly been on an opiate replacement for years which has few side effects..
So how does this change the picture? Am sabotaging the progress we have made or just damned scared...We still go ahead with our plan of no support, and they leave the apartment in 8 days..but should we be looking more into mental health services, try to share that info with girlfriend who will have to deal with him..should he begin to decompensate like he has in the past with the high stress he will be under going..you know it's somewhat about covering all the bases in my mind, in case something should happen to him..
This sounds like such a mess when you put it all out here..but reading all of your posts I know we are all in similar extremely difficult situations..Any feedback is welcome.
I wish I could just have to climb Mt. Everest instead of all this, at this point it looks easier...
Carolita

 

[Childofmine]

Carolita, it is very hard to navigate when we change the rules of the game.

You are experiencing that. Is what we
plan to do right? Enough? Too much?

Will what do or don't do make him do something bad? Will he get worse? Will it be our fault? Is the devil we know better than the devil we don't know? Is he really sick? Is it drugs? Is it mental illness? How much of it is one or the other?

And the big one: will he die? How will o survive if he does? Will it be my/our fault because we didn't help him or force him or say the right words or do the right things or wait long enough?

I don't know the extent of your son's functionality? Can he function if he were to stop using substances? Are there other problems that render him unable to think for himself, to hold down some kind of job or to apply for disability and apply for services to help himself?

I know these may be questions you wrestle with. In my case, my son acted and sounded just like you describe. We would have sit down conversations in the living room trying to help him and figure things out. He would sit slouched down in the chair, hoody over his head, yes and no answers. Everything was somebody else's fault. He offered nothing to the conversation. We pushed and questioned and offered ideas and...nothing. It was the most frustrating thing in the world. He was as helpless as a newborn baby about his own life. I had no preparation for this and I could not get it. We would end up yelling at him and the whole thing would fall apart.

I think what we were seeing the intersection of addiction, immaturity, anxiety, depression and our own enabling. But some will say and still do...it was all addiction.

Carolita, is what you have done working? Has your helping helped? Can you keep on as you are? Can you manage your own emotions---very real emotions---of fear, grief, love, shame, guilt, uncertainty---the awful not knowing?

Can you start somewhere and set boundaries and take a chance on change?

This is very hard stuff and it is the hardest Self-work you will ever do in your life. You will have to change a lot. You will have to find support for yourself for this change because there will be many challenges from him. People who we enable don't like this at all. We are taking their safety net away.

You are scared of course you are.

If it helps YOU make a list of resources and give it to them. That helped me a lot and i did that multiple times. Later I would find those lists crumpled and torn in his backpack. Nothing written on them and no evidence of any use. That helped me too, seeing that, for the next time.

We know how hard this is. It brought me to my knees literally and that was good for me. I have changed a lot throughout this process.

We are here for you. No matter what you decide to do. We understand.

 

[Carolita2]

Thanks child of mine..Your description of your son sounds so familiar.
We cannot change our chosen course of action..It has been months in the making. Boundaries have been established and we see the harm we have done through enabling....to him and to ourselves, our finances, our quality of life, our health...I still am suffering from insomnia..and tachycardia. Has it helped? Absolutely not. It gave us some peace for a time when we were in denial but that only entrenched the dependency he and girlfriend have on us. You're right that what I feel is fear and fear has kept us hostage for well over a year (this time around).
So we are feeling the fear and doing it anyway..so I guess what we are talking about is gathering resources and sharing with son and girlfriend..already done quite alot of that but not in the mental health realm..ok how did that work sharing the other resources?....not well...sooo..may do a few websites with no expectations knowing I am doing it for my own peace of mind. Could backfire and make him angry as he more or less denies any mental health issues but seriously he's angry anyway.
So hard to wrap my mind around the fact that his whole solution to his survival is so sharply focused on one idea, my pocketbook...and seemingly nothing else..guess he won't believe until he experiences..
How long was your son on the street and how did you get through those tough times? What did he do? Shelters, foodstamps..
I appreciate all the support, empathy, and non judgemental posts on this website..it is invaluable..Carolita

 

[Kathy813]

I think the book by Charles Rubin is wonderful. It has helped me a lot over the years.

I was only able to stop enabling my daughter by going to a private therapist. She was wonderful and helped me get there step-by-step. She never criticized me or my husband when we would cave in but helped us see that it never really helped anything. One thing that she repeatedly pointed out to us was how resourceful our daughter is in getting what she needs when she is forced to do it herself.

I thought about that when I read:

Today they got the car to a mechanic

So they were able to figure it out when they had to? Remember that when it gets really bad. They are going to up the ante and try everything that they can think of to get you to give in and help them. Sadly, things will get much worse but you need to keep that line in the sand or they will never believe you again.

They are two adults who should be working and taking care of themselves. Between the two of them, even at minimum wage, they should be able to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomach. It is not your job to do that!

I'm glad that you are posting in the Substance Abuse forum. PE is great but there is another side to our stories when substance abuse is a factor. All of us here in the SA forum have dealt with loved ones with mental health and substance abuse issues. We get it.

~Kathy

 

[Carolita2]

I think the book by Charles Rubin is wonderful. It has helped me a lot over the years.

I was only able to stop enabling my daughter by going to a private therapist. She was wonderful and helped me get there step-by-step. She never criticized me or my husband when we would cave in but helped us see that it never really helped anything. One thing that she repeatedly pointed out to us was how resourceful our daughter is in getting what she needs when she is forced to do it herself.

I thought about that when I read:



So they were able to figure it out when they had to? Remember that when it gets really bad. They are going to up the ante and try everything that they can think of to get you to give in and help them. Sadly, things will get much worse but you need to keep that line in the sand or they will never believe you again.

They are two adults who should be working and taking care of themselves. Between the two of them, even at minimum wage, they should be able to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomach. It is not your job to do thatT

I'm glad that you are posting in the Substance Abuse forum. PE is great but there is another side to our stories when substance abuse if a factor. All of us here in the SA forum have dealt with loved ones with mental health and substance abuse issues. We get it.

~Kathy

Thanks Kathy,
When i read your post it helped me to realize it is a process and will take time and work...
Thank you soooo much for pointing out the car..Yea they even got the tow truck..how'd they do that..?
I had a volley with him this morning that was pathological...Unbelievable..girlfriend is sick and because we won't send money we are forcing him to steal from the drugstore....We said very sorry but we cannot help today but tomorrow we could use your help removing the plates from the car and getting the registration and mailing both to us..I think this may be the only thing I have asked him in years..he completely ignored this request even though we said we'll give you a few dollars for all the walking involved and post office fees..no response just got right back on we need money now or else! We are cutting contact further notice..Actually see the wisdom of that because all problems stem from the contact. The girlfriend is much more rational and reality based..If we text with anyone in the future it will be her..Actually we were and it was going ok. She was talking a plan, had some goals..still think it's best to minimize contact for now. We agree, their rent was $675 and not a bad little place..They payed rent 1x in a year when she got her tax return from working last year. But it's too late they have to vacate on the 15th of this month, a mere 8 days..
Hubs and I are thinking of going away for 48 hours just to change things up. Not easy we have another son who is rather disabled living with but in his own apartment but we have good staff and need to do more of this anyway
We are in therapy with a wonderful guy who tried to work with our son long distance but he alienated him and then blamed the therapist for the changes we started to make then 4 or 5 months ago. Then I found this site and feel that I'm +really making progress now..It is really wonderful to hear and easier to implement solutions that come from parents who have the same issues and the biological bond that is so hard to alter.
Just reading this post gives me the reinforcement I need to let go and go and enjoy the rest of my day...Thanks...PS read Charles Rubin almost daily...so good..

 

[Kathy813]

My daughter hates our therapist! She is always bad-mouthing her. When I tell the therapist that she laughs and says she is okay with my daughter hating her.

They don't like us to change and get stronger and anyone who encourages that is a threat. My daughter also doesn't like this board.

I finally had to cut off contact to save my sanity. My husband keeps up limited contact on his terms. My hope is to reestablish a relationship someday but it will have to one with healthy boundaries that my daughter respects.

~Kathy

 

[Nancy]

Hi again Carolita, I found the group Families Anonymous (FA) very helpful. The families that attended these meetings were dealing with not only drug addiction but mental illness in their loved ones. It is the first time I actually went to a meeting and laughed. I found I could share my story and listen to others and still find reason to have fun and joy in my life. Just being around others dealing with so much pain and seeing them still live their lives gave me the hope and strength to do the same. I found I didn't always have to be depressed or sad.

I think going away for 48 hours is a great idea. Once I began living my life and not feeling guilty about it my daughter saw she had to start managing her own life. Once I withdrew financial support she found she had to modify her behavior or live on the street. I also had to come to term with the fact that she might die. I still remember the night I had to do that. I even said it out loud to my husband. I vowed that I would not feel guilty, that I had done everything I could to protect her and take care of her and if she was determined to end her life there was nothing I could do. I know that sounds harsh but outside of handcuffing her to my wrist I could not stop whatever behavior she was going to engage in. In the end she decided she had to start taking care of herself.

I know that for those struggling with mental illness it is not always possible for them to rationally figure things out. I don;t think we do a good job in this country helping the mentally ill with services.

I hope you have a good day today. Where I am at the sun is shining and there air is cool and crisp. A beautiful fall day.

 

[Kathy813]

It's a rainy night in Georgia.

 

[Carolita2]

Hi again Carolita, I found the group Families Anonymous (FA) very helpful. The families that attended these meetings were dealing with not only drug addiction but mental illness in their loved ones. It is the first time I actually went to a meeting and laughed. I found I could share my story and listen to others and still find reason to have fun and joy in my life. Just being around others dealing with so much pain and seeing them still live their lives gave me the hope and strength to do the same. I found I didn't always have to be depressed or sad.

I think going away for 48 hours is a great idea. Once I began living my life and not feeling guilty about it my daughter saw she had to start managing her own life. Once I withdrew financial support she found she had to modify her behavior or live on the street. I also had to come to term with the fact that she might die. I still remember the night I had to do that. I even said it out loud to my husband. I vowed that I would not feel guilty, that I had done everything I could to protect her and take care of her and if she was determined to end her life there was nothing I could do. I know that sounds harsh but outside of handcuffing her to my wrist I could not stop whatever behavior she was going to engage in. In the end she decided she had to start taking care of herself.

I know that for those struggling with mental illness it is not always possible for them to rationally figure things out. I don;t think we do a good job in this country helping the mentally ill with services.

I hope you have a good day today. Where I am at the sun is shining and there air is cool and crisp. A beautiful fall day.

I will look into FA..We have Naranon in addition to Alanon..Naranon deals with drug addiction...
I appreciate the mention of fact that the consequences of our addicts choices could be death...its important to acknowledge that, I think..Notice I say their choices, trying to curb the guilt. One of my closest friends lost her son nearly 3 years ago due to substance abuse..I mean really if that wasn't on the table, I wouldn't be in such a painful struggle..I lost a brother to suicide and always found it especially cruel when son pulls that card. I now say it is not the choice I would like you to make, but it is your choice and a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
What started out as a trying upsetting day turned out pretty good. Right down to a brilliant sunset! Thanks!

 

[AppleCori]

Hi Carolita,

Yes, please go do something for yourselves this weekend!

Sitting around worrying won't help anything.

I wonder if we punish ourselves by doing this, subconsciously thinking that we deserve it.

 

[Carolita2]

The paralysis is difficult sometimes but you're right it does no good. For me it's fear and control..Fear that if I let go and do my life, something bad will happen. I know that this is an illusion and not real, l but it's difficult to overcome sometimes.
Yesterday I landed in the hospital with the racing heart..I was released same day. Happens with poor sleep and anxiety for me. It is an electrical problem and once the heart rate takes off I need medications to reset it.
We are planning to be away the first two days with no contact the first 2 days that they are homeless. I am very fearful, Apple...

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Carolita,
I hope you are feeling better and that you have had some rest. A racing heart is a scary thing, I am glad you were able to treat it, and be released the same day. My Mom has this problem and ended up on medication. She also has to watch her diet, no caffeine, limited chocolate. That would be hard for me, I love chocolate.

I appreciate the mention of fact that the consequences of our addicts choices could be death...its important to acknowledge that, I think..Notice I say their choices, trying to curb the guilt.

Guilt is a horrible phase to go through when our d cs travel their path. I hope you are able to work through this Carolita. I do not think there is anything we could do, or could have done to prevent the journey our children are on. Looking back, I did make mistakes that my two will focus on in their blaming me for their life's choices. Of course I made mistakes, we all do!
I fell in to that guilt trap, and it kept me enabling, this guilt, that if I had done this, or that, it would be different. It sets us to a bargaining with ourselves and our d cs addiction. Guilt sets us on a parallel path with them, we have bought in to their story that convinces them, that we are to blame for their misery.
We are not Carolita.
They are making choices. The blame they throw at us keeps them from looking in the mirror, and keeps us seeing them as little children, which keeps us enabling.
I hope you do not visit guilt often, it is a fruitless endeavor. We are all imperfect humans and make mistakes.

One of my closest friends lost her son nearly 3 years ago due to substance abuse..I mean really if that wasn't on the table, I wouldn't be in such a painful struggle..

How terrible for your friend, and for you to have to see this so clearly as an end result. I have that in the back of my mind, but do not choose to look at it often. Life is a precious thing, it can be snatched away from any of us in an instant. We are all aware of this, but to think of that possibility often, is not to live.

I lost a brother to suicide and always found it especially cruel when son pulls that card. I now say it is not the choice I would like you to make, but it is your choice and a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

I am very sorry that you lost your brother this way. It is cruel for your son to say such a thing. I am reminded of posts talking of such and the advice to call authorities when suicide threats are made. It is taken very seriously. If your son mentions this again, I hope there is a way for you to get in touch with local police, and report it.

What started out as a trying upsetting day turned out pretty good. Right down to a brilliant sunset!

I am glad that you were able to have a good ending to a difficult day Carolita, sunsets are spectacular paintings from above, are they not? There is something magnificent in a beautiful sunset, like a promise.

Yes, please go do something for yourselves this weekend!

Sitting around worrying won't help anything.

Sitting around worrying does not help. I hope you do go and relax and breathe Carolita.

I wonder if we punish ourselves by doing this, subconsciously thinking that we deserve it.

I think we do punish ourselves, Apple. And we must stop that. It does no good. It is important to take care of ourselves, we cannot give from empty.

The paralysis is difficult sometimes but you're right it does no good. For me it's fear and control..Fear that if I let go and do my life, something bad will happen. I know that this is an illusion and not real, but it's difficult to overcome sometimes.

I know this paralysis, it is grief in what has been lost. We all go through a grieving phase with our d cs. It is deep and dark and keeps us from moving. It is not healthy. We need to have our lives, and to see our future, and to take steps to make it happen. In this, we are showing our d cs, that a bright future is possible. Going down with their ship does not help them see that. By strengthening ourselves and taking care of ourselves, we show our d cs through our actions, that this is important, to live a good, joyful, healthy, mindful life. To be present in all things.

Yesterday I landed in the hospital with the racing heart..I was released same day. Happens with poor sleep and anxiety for me. It is an electrical problem and once the heart rate takes off I need medications to reset it.

Ah, poor sleep. This is my goal Carolita, to sleep better. We must replenish our minds and bodies with adequate rest. I am glad you know what causes your condition, now you must work at the solution.

We are planning to be away the first two days with no contact the first 2 days that they are homeless. I am very fearful, Apple...

I think this is a good idea. What will you do Carolita, to rebuild yourself and replace that fearfulness?
It is hard to imagine our d cs as homeless, but it is really consequences of their actions. My daughter has drifted in and out of homelessness for about two years now. Others will tell you, they network together. And there is help out there, for the homeless.
I would be more fearful of what would happen to her if she didn't learn to care for herself. I will not be on this planet forever, and do not have money to leave behind that will take care of her for the rest of her life. She must learn to fend for herself, as your son must learn.

You are doing the right thing Carolita, for your son. You are giving him his wings, and they work. He will not be happy with you, about these changes you have made. But it is the right thing.

I hope you will feel better, and have an enjoyable time with your husband. You both have given so much. Now is the time to reset your focus on you. It is not a selfish thing to find ways to love yourself, to take better care of yourself. It is the best example you could give your son of living true.

Take care Carolita. Take some time to breathe. Please take care of your health.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Carolita2]

Hi Carolita,
I hope you are feeling better and that you have had some rest. A racing heart is a scary thing, I am glad you were able to treat it, and be released the same day. My Mom has this problem and ended up on medication. She also has to watch her diet, no caffeine, limited chocolate. That would be hard for me, I love chocolate.
Guilt is a horrible phase to go through when our d cs travel their path. I hope you are able to work through this Carolita. I do not think there is anything we could do, or could have done to prevent the journey our children are on. Looking back, I did make mistakes that my two will focus on in their blaming me for their life's choices. Of course I made mistakes, we all do!
I fell in to that guilt trap, and it kept me enabling, this guilt, that if I had done this, or that, it would be different. It sets us to a bargaining with ourselves and our d cs addiction. Guilt sets us on a parallel path with them, we have bought in to their story that convinces them, that we are to blame for their misery.
We are not Carolita.
They are making choices. The blame they throw at us keeps them from looking in the mirror, and keeps us seeing them as little children, which keeps us enabling.
I hope you do not visit guilt often, it is a fruitless endeavor. We are all imperfect humans and make mistakes.

How terrible for your friend, and for you to have to see this so clearly as an end result. I have that in the back of my mind, but do not choose to look at it often. Life is a precious thing, it can be snatched away from any of us in an instant. We are all aware of this, but to think of that possibility often, is not to live.

I am very sorry that you lost your brother this way. It is cruel for your son to say such a thing. I am reminded of posts talking of such and the advice to call authorities when suicide threats are made. It is taken very seriously. If your son mentions this again, I hope there is a way for you to get in touch with local police, and report it.

I am glad that you were able to have a good ending to a difficult day Carolita, sunsets are spectacular paintings from above, are they not? There is something magnificent in a beautiful sunset, like a promise.

Sitting around worrying does not help. I hope you do go and relax and breathe Carolita.

I think we do punish ourselves, Apple. And we must stop that. It does no good. It is important to take care of ourselves, we cannot give from empty.

I know this paralysis, it is grief in what has been lost. We all go through a grieving phase with our d cs. It is deep and dark and keeps us from moving. It is not healthy. We need to have our lives, and to see our future, and to take steps to make it happen. In this, we are showing our d cs, that a bright future is possible. Going down with their ship does not help them see that. By strengthening ourselves and taking care of ourselves, we show our d cs through our actions, that this is important, to live a good, joyful, healthy, mindful life. To be present in all things.


Ah, poor sleep. This is my goal Carolita, to sleep better. We must replenish our minds and bodies with adequate rest. I am glad you know what causes your condition, now you must work at the solution.
I think this is a good idea. What will you do Carolita, to rebuild yourself and replace that fearfulness?
It is hard to imagine our d cs as homeless, but it is really consequences of their actions. My daughter has drifted in and out of homelessness for about two years now. Others will tell you, they network together. And there is help out there, for the homeless.
I would be more fearful of what would happen to her if she didn't learn to care for herself. I will not be on this planet forever, and do not have money to leave behind that will take care of her for the rest of her life. She must learn to fend for herself, as your son must learn.

You are doing the right thing Carolita, for your son. You are giving him his wings, and they work. He will not be happy with you, about these changes you have made. But it is the right thing.

I hope you will feel better, and have an enjoyable time with your husband. You both have given so much. Now is the time to reset your focus on you. It is not a selfish thing to find ways to love yourself, to take better care of yourself. It is the best example you could give your son of living true.

Take care Carolita. Take some time to breathe. Please take care of your health.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

Hi Carolita,
I hope you are feeling better and that you have had some rest. A racing heart is a scary thing, I am glad you were able to treat it, and be released the same day. My Mom has this problem and ended up on medication. She also has to watch her diet, no caffeine, limited chocolate. That would be hard for me, I love chocolate.
Guilt is a horrible phase to go through when our d cs travel their path. I hope you are able to work through this Carolita. I do not think there is anything we could do, or could have done to prevent the journey our children are on. Looking back, I did make mistakes that my two will focus on in their blaming me for their life's choices. Of course I made mistakes, we all do!
I fell in to that guilt trap, and it kept me enabling, this guilt, that if I had done this, or that, it would be different. It sets us to a bargaining with ourselves and our d cs addiction. Guilt sets us on a parallel path with them, we have bought in to their story that convinces them, that we are to blame for their misery.
We are not Carolita.
They are making choices. The blame they throw at us keeps them from looking in the mirror, and keeps us seeing them as little children, which keeps us enabling.
I hope you do not visit guilt often, it is a fruitless endeavor. We are all imperfect humans and make mistakes.

How terrible for your friend, and for you to have to see this so clearly as an end result. I have that in the back of my mind, but do not choose to look at it often. Life is a precious thing, it can be snatched away from any of us in an instant. We are all aware of this, but to think of that possibility often, is not to live.

I am very sorry that you lost your brother this way. It is cruel for your son to say such a thing. I am reminded of posts talking of such and the advice to call authorities when suicide threats are made. It is taken very seriously. If your son mentions this again, I hope there is a way for you to get in touch with local police, and report it.

I am glad that you were able to have a good ending to a difficult day Carolita, sunsets are spectacular paintings from above, are they not? There is something magnificent in a beautiful sunset, like a promise.

Sitting around worrying does not help. I hope you do go and relax and breathe Carolita.

I think we do punish ourselves, Apple. And we must stop that. It does no good. It is important to take care of ourselves, we cannot give from empty.

I know this paralysis, it is grief in what has been lost. We all go through a grieving phase with our d cs. It is deep and dark and keeps us from moving. It is not healthy. We need to have our lives, and to see our future, and to take steps to make it happen. In this, we are showing our d cs, that a bright future is possible. Going down with their ship does not help them see that. By strengthening ourselves and taking care of ourselves, we show our d cs through our actions, that this is important, to live a good, joyful, healthy, mindful life. To be present in all things.


Ah, poor sleep. This is my goal Carolita, to sleep better. We must replenish our minds and bodies with adequate rest. I am glad you know what causes your condition, now you must work at the solution.
I think this is a good idea. What will you do Carolita, to rebuild yourself and replace that fearfulness?
It is hard to imagine our d cs as homeless, but it is really consequences of their actions. My daughter has drifted in and out of homelessness for about two years now. Others will tell you, they network together. And there is help out there, for the homeless.
I would be more fearful of what would happen to her if she didn't learn to care for herself. I will not be on this planet forever, and do not have money to leave behind that will take care of her for the rest of her life. She must learn to fend for herself, as your son must learn.

You are doing the right thing Carolita, for your son. You are giving him his wings, and they work. He will not be happy with you, about these changes you have made. But it is the right thing.

I hope you will feel better, and have an enjoyable time with your husband. You both have given so much. Now is the time to reset your focus on you. It is not a selfish thing to find ways to love yourself, to take better care of yourself. It is the best example you could give your son of living true.

Take care Carolita. Take some time to breathe. Please take care of your health.

(((HUGS)))

HI Leafy,
Thank you for all your wisdom, validation and taking the time to make sense of all of my rambling..
What you said about being healthy and taking care of ourselves as an example to our Difficult Child's makes sense to me..
I appreciate you sharing about your daughters experiences being homeless..I imagine people chasing them down the street with guns and knives, lol...and what you describe sounds more like a community of sorts...
I am getting stronger or at least I see and look at what I couldn't before..and yes there is a lot of grief in doing that...my son is a liar, he probably has some brain damage from using, he uses people..We can't change him but we can be honest, we can set boundaries..and do no more harm by enabling.
I am ok..MD says it's like running a marathon...so laid low today..
Planning our getaway...
I hope all is well in your world Leafy, just for today...

• 

I do feel ok, just a little tired..

 

[AppleCori]

Hi Carolita,

How are you doing today?

Apple

 

[Carolita2]

Hi Apple! Went to yoga this morning..Now to heart doctor then our counselor for son issues..
His dad talked to him yesterday telling him he is severely depressed.
Progress, response was what are you willing to do about it? There are many resources...
Long story but he is trying to sell car..which we were going to try to give to repair shop...title was not up to snuff for us to sell to pik n'pull..used car many owners and,I was not on title no idea why not, registered it ok.
Doing my life planning 48 hour get away..trying not to go to the what if's in my mind.
Thanks for asking Apple and I hope your day is going smoothly?
Carolita

 

[AppleCori]

Yes, my day is going smoothly.

I have to say, I have been thrown by the situation with our long-time friend Terry(over on PE forum) and how we have driven her away. I really feel bad about the fact that she was not feeling supported here.

Well, if son can get the car sold, so much the better. Since you are not on the title, not your problem, luckily.

I hope the heart doctor visit goes OK!

Check back in soon. I am thinking about you often, knowing that this weekend is going to be particularly difficult.

Apple

 

[Carolita2]

Yes, my day is going smoothly.

I have to say, I have been thrown by the situation with our long-time friend Terry(over on PE forum) and how we have driven her away. I really feel bad about the fact that she was not feeling supported here.

Well, if son can get the car sold, so much the better. Since you are not on the title, not your problem, luckily.

I hope the heart doctor visit goes OK!

Check back in soon. I am thinking about you often, knowing that this weekend is going to be particularly difficult.

Apple

Heart is okay...just hoping no more episodes but there is just no way of knowing...stress and lack of sleep can contribute..medications don'[t work for me..It had be almost 2 months since last time..and the rate wasn't as bad as in the past..fingers crossed.
I am sorry to hear about your friend...It must not feel good to not get replies....I would like to reply or at least acknowledge posts, just don't know if I am not seasoned enough, not sure.....Are there protocols about replying..

 

[Carolita2]

Hi Carolita,
I hope you are feeling better and that you have had some rest. A racing heart is a scary thing, I am glad you were able to treat it, and be released the same day. My Mom has this problem and ended up on medication. She also has to watch her diet, no caffeine, limited chocolate. That would be hard for me, I love chocolate.
Guilt is a horrible phase to go through when our d cs travel their path. I hope you are able to work through this Carolita. I do not think there is anything we could do, or could have done to prevent the journey our children are on. Looking back, I did make mistakes that my two will focus on in their blaming me for their life's choices. Of course I made mistakes, we all do!
I fell in to that guilt trap, and it kept me enabling, this guilt, that if I had done this, or that, it would be different. It sets us to a bargaining with ourselves and our d cs addiction. Guilt sets us on a parallel path with them, we have bought in to their story that convinces them, that we are to blame for their misery.
We are not Carolita.
They are making choices. The blame they throw at us keeps them from looking in the mirror, and keeps us seeing them as little children, which keeps us enabling.
I hope you do not visit guilt often, it is a fruitless endeavor. We are all imperfect humans and make mistakes.

How terrible for your friend, and for you to have to see this so clearly as an end result. I have that in the back of my mind, but do not choose to look at it often. Life is a precious thing, it can be snatched away from any of us in an instant. We are all aware of this, but to think of that possibility often, is not to live.

I am very sorry that you lost your brother this way. It is cruel for your son to say such a thing. I am reminded of posts talking of such and the advice to call authorities when suicide threats are made. It is taken very seriously. If your son mentions this again, I hope there is a way for you to get in touch with local police, and report it.

I am glad that you were able to have a good ending to a difficult day Carolita, sunsets are spectacular paintings from above, are they not? There is something magnificent in a beautiful sunset, like a promise.

Sitting around worrying does not help. I hope you do go and relax and breathe Carolita.

I think we do punish ourselves, Apple. And we must stop that. It does no good. It is important to take care of ourselves, we cannot give from empty.

I know this paralysis, it is grief in what has been lost. We all go through a grieving phase with our d cs. It is deep and dark and keeps us from moving. It is not healthy. We need to have our lives, and to see our future, and to take steps to make it happen. In this, we are showing our d cs, that a bright future is possible. Going down with their ship does not help them see that. By strengthening ourselves and taking care of ourselves, we show our d cs through our actions, that this is important, to live a good, joyful, healthy, mindful life. To be present in all things.


Ah, poor sleep. This is my goal Carolita, to sleep better. We must replenish our minds and bodies with adequate rest. I am glad you know what causes your condition, now you must work at the solution.
I think this is a good idea. What will you do Carolita, to rebuild yourself and replace that fearfulness?
It is hard to imagine our d cs as homeless, but it is really consequences of their actions. My daughter has drifted in and out of homelessness for about two years now. Others will tell you, they network together. And there is help out there, for the homeless.
I would be more fearful of what would happen to her if she didn't learn to care for herself. I will not be on this planet forever, and do not have money to leave behind that will take care of her for the rest of her life. She must learn to fend for herself, as your son must learn.

You are doing the right thing Carolita, for your son. You are giving him his wings, and they work. He will not be happy with you, about these changes you have made. But it is the right thing.

I hope you will feel better, and have an enjoyable time with your husband. You both have given so much. Now is the time to reset your focus on you. It is not a selfish thing to find ways to love yourself, to take better care of yourself. It is the best example you could give your son of living true.

Take care Carolita. Take some time to breathe. Please take care of your health.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Carolita2]

Hi Leafy,
Not sure if I replies to your posts..Yeah sleeping is difficult..Things that I can keep under wraps during the day when distracted

Thanks Leafy..Like all of you I am doing my best...reading your posts, I know we all share similar struggles...so grateful for this website!! Whichever way things go, we are not alone..

Hi Leafy not sure I replied to your latest post which I cannot find for some reason..Yes sleep it is a tough one. Stuff I can ignore with daytime distractions sometimes wake me up at night and then hard to get back to sleep..Trying hard to let people have their own process and not constantly thinking how to fix, even if only in my head I'm giving them space...
Good night