And so it goes

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
i asked to be told. You can not tell me what to post and I would never tell you either.

If you keep attacking my well meaning posts
I cannot tell you what to post or how to be and would not. As I have written a number of times, I nearly always agree with your posts, and feel that your presence on this forum is a great addition.

The thing is many, many people read these posts, some members, many more not. They read these posts years after they are written. If I am writing to anybody, it is them. So that a different viewpoint is expressed on the threads on which I choose to take part, if I feel that it's important.

I also write for myself, that I have voice, and that I evolve as a person and as a parent. Just as you have the right to post based upon your own experience, so do I, and everybody else. I am absolutely fine with being blocked. I would prefer that than being muzzled. Just as you would. But my intention is not to muzzle you or anybody.

I take full responsibility for the fact that my viewpoint may not be appropriate to the current ethos of the forum, or in step with where it is going. This is nothing personal. Just that I choose to respond with my own viewpoint, just as we all do.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I suspect your comments to me are more about yourself than any other mothers.
I agree. The only mother here about whom I have legitimate voice, is myself.
I am finding by studying about trauma that I am able to delve into my past and understand a bit more about myself. What makes me tick, what are my triggers
I believe that this forum can be a means of self-transformation. Parenting becomes the way to know and to face our own pasts and our own dynamics and to open to become more. In this way we can learn to open to the full spectrum of our feelings about our children. For years and years we loved them. We still do. I think we can love our damaged adult children and at the same time, live in hope, and incrementally move beyond fear, anger, blame, and judgment. Admittedly, I am a work in progress.

I think our own personal stories are not only legitimately part of our journey to overcome our painful relationships with our children, they are an essential piece. Of course that's my own viewpoint. But my posts have from the beginning have come from this place.
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I remember our extensive discussion in the Foo forum and how we delved into our own family experience. I think the trauma of dealing with off the rails adult kids forces us to look inward for answers. It is interesting to read that caring for traumatized children brings a lot of our own history to the forefront. It is highly suggested that foster parents consider therapy for this very reason. Trauma is contagious. That’s what I think. Like a ripple effect. If one is not careful, watchful of one’s own deep seated emotions, the trauma can envelope the entire home. It is actually a sort of comfort zone for a traumatized child in their stressed state, it’s all they have known.
It will be a long journey to sanity. But I do see subtle changes. It is all dependent on setting a routine, identifying house rules and sticking to them. Trying not to make sudden changes. Finding out what triggers to avoid. Watching the brothers and preventing fights. I am in training Copa.
I don’t mean to compare my grands to animals, but they remind me of a feral kitten my daughter found. I had to keep her in my room for awhile so that she wouldn’t bolt out the door. She stayed under my bed for a long time, hissing at me. She eventually came to trust me. That is a simplification of what is going on with my grands, but I do think they are truly very frightened human beings.
I like the idea of therapeutic horses. I found a closer venue and will check it out. I think it would be nice to make it a point to try new things as a family. Slowly, steadily add new experiences.
Time to shower and go food shopping. Seems like I am always at the grocery store. These guys can eat.
Leaf
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Just catching up.

Leafy OMG Rain's visit. The sore. Ugh. I agree you need to keep her at arm's length for your sanity and that of the children. Could you possibly say that she is not allowed to visit until she has addressed the sore on her leg? I find myself always making deals with my son to get him to do what I want him to do...to this day. I'm not saying that you even WANT her to visit of course.....

Not as much meth as she used to use? Face palm. Is that the road to recovery? I do not know or understand this line of thinking.

There is a reason that God has kept her on this earth. Many years ago my neighbor's daughter died suddenly at 26 years old due to a scratch on her leg that got worse causing a deadly infection. My friend said it was not a bad scratch. That she saw a red line going up her daughter's leg and then said she had better see a doctor and that was the end of it. What I'm saying is most people, especially those that are not in good health, could not survive a sore like that.

Copa so sorry to hear about your latest revelations. You have been through a lot with your son. I do hope you continue to post here for your own journalizing benefits and to help others.

I do not think that any of us can ever give up hope and I will not. My son told us last week that he really does not want to be a welder. Doesn't like anything about it. Is very fair (redhead) and has already burned himself twice. My husband was VERY upset. Thought son had found a way to support himself. My son really put a lot into the training so he did prove himself that he really tried. He now has decided to look for a full time job with a good company. He has applied to large companies like AT&T, Amazon, the post office etc. We told him two weeks looking and then after that he must take any job and continue to look. I have PTSD. He is on the couch a lot again but he is not the person he was before. He is not using drugs. But I am damaged goods. If either of our other sons were in this situation I would not bat an eye.

There is a reason that we are all here on this site together. We all play a different role and bring something different to the table.
 

ahhjeez

Active Member
New Leaf I just wanted to post to lend my support and send a virtual hug to you. I so wish I was your neighbor as well. I think what you are doing with your grandchildren is amazing ♥

Copa I so hope you keep posting on this forum. I posted awhile back about something that happened to me and your post was pure kindness and I never forgot it. Thank you.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
New Leaf,

I admire you and think you are a very strong woman. My youngest homeless son had the flu last week. I worry that I'm falling into the "“Lest I grow cold” category. I did not seek him out to see if I could help him. I can't have him come into my home (and never have since I've lived there for over a year and a half) because if he were to come into my home, I fear I would not have the courage to make him leave and for certain he would not want to on his own.

I worry sometimes that my detachment is cold and heartless. I get confused sometimes "in the moment". I journal so that I don't forget the many instances that have put me in danger so I don't let my guard down. But it is painful sometimes "being strong". My mind plays games on me and makes me think I'm bad, cold, heartless.

I did call him and text. I told him he should go to the doctors and he said no. He didn't want to wait hours in the ER for nothing. I told him I was sorry he was so sick and text him here and there but for the most part didn't receive any replies (only once).

I have to remember that my thought process is not his. Most logical people when faced with illness would get themselves to the doctors. We'd take care of ourselves, respect ourselves enough to do so. It doesn't make sense and I've determined it's beyond my comprehension.
 

WiseChoices

Well-Known Member
We are only as strong as our unity here. We all have been through so much.

My personal opinion is that hope is a spiritual principle, and therefore I chose to practice it.

In my own life, I try to align myself with spiritual principles to the best of my ability which requires to align with love as love is the underlying force of all spiritual principles. To me this means the absence of judgement. The absence of defining someone else on my terms. It requires me to pray for God (=love) to allow me to see other people including my difficult children through God's eyes. And I keep praying until I do shift my perspective and can think of everyone in terms of their highest good.

It requires me to pray for others who have hurt me in order for my resentments to be resolved. I cannot show up as the best version of me unless I clear my grievances and align with love. My purpose on Earth is to reflect love and forgiveness back to wash human being I encounter.

I also have to bring this love and forgiveness to myself. And that implies that I practice self respect. I don't accept unacceptable behavior from people and that includes me. In order to feel ok about me, I discipline myself to treat everyone in acceptable ways. I can set boundaries calmly, and quietly . There is strength in being in control of my feelings and being calm.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I love your posts. You resonate with me so much.

I do not see hope as spiritual though. Let me please explain. I see it as a wish, a good wish. But love is what I hang onto the most. It is my go to spiritual emotion. Love is spiritual, the highest form of spirituality to me. Forgiveness is too. Being kind to others even if we don't quite see eye to eye is spiritual. Feeling for those who suffer is spiritual. Nature to me is very spiritual. Animals too. Loving all of God's creation, if, in fact, God is in your life.

I don't judge others choices through their hardships.i don't want mine to be judged. I would love to feel hope for Kay but I can't and this is valid and hopefully not judged. I still love her though. I pray for her day and night. But I have no real hope that she will change. I know I'm not alone in this horrid hopeless cloud, and don't want others who feel hopeless to feel ashamed to share their feelings here. It is not shameful. It is sad. Nor does it cause more hopeful people to give up. We don't have that power over others.

Wise, I so love how you say you don't accept unacceptable behavior from anyone including yourself. I can not tell you how smart I find that. For years I beat myself up and thought I deserved it, although I never spoke as harshly to anyone else as I did to me. I do not yell at others or name-call. This actually helped my relationship with Kay a tad because at least she has no memories of being called names in anger. Not by any of us.

But I called myself names that I would never say out loud. I treated me like dirt. But I stopped about two years ago. Bless my Christian counselor. I so agree that we should treat ourselves as we treat others.

If I can pray with no hesitation over those who have hurt me, I can give me a break too.

I hope that there is no judgement here.but if so, I will not read those posts of any who judge. I feel like a sister to all of you. We ALL know pain and loss. A few of us even know the horrid death of an angel too young to leave us.

God is my love and it comforts me to know that He loves Kay and is trying to reach her. If there is any hope for her, it starts with God. That is how I feel.

We are strong, intelligent women and we need the support of one another. I cherish the support I get here.

Thank you, Wise.

Blessings to all.
 
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JayPee

Sending good vibes...
I don't accept unacceptable behavior from people and that includes me
Wise,

Thanks for sharing this quote. I have always interpreted my boundaries to mean "I will not accept unacceptable behavior from people" but never heard ..."and that includes me".

It's helping me to think about my thought process. The way I often treat myself "mentally" is feeling sad because sons are not well, telling myself I shouldn't be comfortable if they are not comfortable, taking on blame and guilt for the way they are etc. This is not treating "myself" correctly. It is unacceptable behavior to beat myself up internally.

I need to ask God to heal my brokenness and know that he is manifesting himself in their lives even if I can't see it right now.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Two great posts in a row.

I too am on a learning curve, not there yet. I have pretty much mastered not allowing others to tell me what I shouldn't feel or say. But I still sometimes realize that my own mind is abusing me, blaming me, torturing me, telling me I said or did the wrong things.

It is so much better now, but I am a work in progress. Aren't we all? I won't let others invalidate what I say because it is how I feel and nobody has the right to shut me down (nor do I have that right regarding others) but my own mind invalidates me. And it can be relentless.


Are you SURE this isn't your fault?

Are you SURE this is right by Kay?

Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure?

But, as I said, I do it far less often now, both with others and to myself. It's a start.

Thank you, ladies, for these wonderful words of wisdom that I can take with me today. You have no idea how helpful you both have been.

The holidays are hard for me too. My angel son was born on Dec. 23rd. And there is always a hole in my heart on Christmas. There always will be.

Blessings to all.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi RN
Leafy OMG Rain's visit. The sore. Ugh. I agree you need to keep her at arm's length for your sanity and that of the children. Could you possibly say that she is not allowed to visit until she has addressed the sore on her leg?
I don’t expect to see her anytime soon. It has been her M.O. for years. If she does try and come up, I will explain the effect on the kids, that it is too painful for them. That is the truth.

Not as much meth as she used to use? Face palm. Is that the road to recovery? I do not know or understand this line of thinking.
Me neither, but this is an addict talking. I have heard other people talk about “functioning users.” Meaning they limit their use so that they are able to go to work, etc. I don’t know how this is possible considering that meth is one of those drugs where you need more and more just to feel normal.
What I'm saying is most people, especially those that are not in good health, could not survive a sore like that.
True RN. Not only does she have the drug use working against her, she also has diabetes. I don’t know what her leg looks like now. I just have to give it to God and let it go. There is nothing more I can do.
I do not think that any of us can ever give up hope and I will not.
I have been following this discussion and since my title is “And so it is” feel it fits. I think most of us come here desperately in need of finding respite from the sadness of grieving over and over again our grown children’s choices. Transitioning from the absolute horror of it, thinking we can do something to fix it, reeling the tapes and finding blame within ourselves to hopefully realizing we did the best job we could and then understanding that people grow up and choose their path. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and perspective. Some replies and opinions can be straightforward and to the point, some folks are not ready to read that. We are all coming from a place of deep hurt. Everyone has their own way of coping. Whether it be to hope or not to hope. There is also the issue of how we can read emotion and suppose intent “between the lines”. It’s hard sometimes to clarify in written word. I haven’t been on CD for some time now, so I don’t know all of the backstory to this exchange. What I do know is that at one time I was hurt by a comment made. I don’t think that was the intention of the member. I think it revealed my vulnerability and rawness. Kind of what I see with my grands. They are easily triggered and offended. That’s trauma in action. Spilling over.
We are all coming from some very difficult and heart wrenching ordeals. This is supposed to be a soft place to land for battle weary parents. Not everyone has to like one another, their style of writing or how we choose to deal with our challenges, but I do think we should be kind.

My son told us last week that he really does not want to be a welder. Doesn't like anything about it. Is very fair (redhead) and has already burned himself twice. My husband was VERY upset.
It must be hard to see him go through all of the training successfully, then he realizes it is not really what he wants to do. That’s tough. A letdown. But, who would want to be stuck in a career that we don’t want or enjoy at least some of the time?

He has applied to large companies like AT&T, Amazon, the post office etc.
At least he is applying?
I have PTSD. He is on the couch a lot again but he is not the person he was before. He is not using drugs. But I am damaged goods. If either of our other sons were in this situation I would not bat an eye.
I would be worried too, RN, you all have been through so much. But not using drugs? That’s huge. I hope he is able to get a job and keep moving forward. For all of your sakes.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
Ps I hope I did not offend anyone here.
Peace
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Thank you Leafy. I have never been offended by you, only comforted.

There was one person that was very cruel to me here when I was very vulnerable but thankfully she is no longer on the site. I would not let her run me off though! LOL

I went to my women's group last night - through our church - we break down into small groups. I have never told them my story because it makes me extremely emotional. Last night I did. It turns our our leader went through addiction with her son who is now 31. I literally had no idea. She is the most peaceful person I have met since I moved here.

When I left I told her I felt bad that I had told my son's secret; that I felt like I was betraying him. She said that I needed to do that and that nothing that people tell leaves the room (and I have seen others that have exposed their burdens) and that we need to tell what is tormenting us so we can support and pray for one another. She said her son said if it was not for the prayers he would surely have not made it.

So now I think I know why I was drawn to this women's group. She lived it and gets it and does not judge.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
RN
I'm glad you were able to confide in your church group. Just taking a secret out of hiding puts new light on it, I feel. It makes it less of a monster, if that's possible. Never mind, the healing effect it will continue to have on you since you no longer have to withhold this from the people whom you are working with to grow and find peace. I'm betting you feel a weight off of your shoulders.

I have found, often, it's our own judgement we place on ourselves for the way we expect our children to be. We worry, others will think less of us because our children didn't turn out perfect. When we start talking and sharing we learn that no one's life is perfect. We're all vulnerable to some degree.

I know for myself, when I started sharing in Al anon after keeping my ex-husband's alcoholism a secret for years and years, it was truly for me, the beginning of a long journey towards healing. When we isolate ourselves with our problems they seem to get so big and heavy. When we share, it's as if we're able to exhale and then we gain wisdom, hope and strength from others who know our pain.

Sending hugs.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I don't know why my quote thing doesn't work. I guess I'll ask RB. Meanwhile:

RN: There was one person that was very cruel to me here when I was very vulnerable but thankfully she is no longer on the site.

I was in this spot too. (I hope I didn't hurt you. RN.) Devastated by posts here. I think this went on for a few years.

There is the strength that can emerge in us in the face of indecision, doubt and humility. There needs to be a place for this here. We need to permit each other this.

In the face of a strong, clear voice that feels hurtful, or even judgmental: it must be my fault. I am the weak link here. It's just me. My problem. I'm alone. And then, here, CD, becomes just as hurtful as the world. Maybe more.

You see, in the past, nobody spoke up. We all of us bore it. There was not a conversation here about this. Maybe there was a climate of harshness here. And nobody spoke up. Or if we did, we were all alone.

New Leaf: at one time I was hurt by a comment made. I don’t think that was the intention of the member. I think it revealed my vulnerability and rawness. Kind of what I see with my grands. They are easily triggered and offended. That’s trauma in action.

New Leaf. I hope I was not the one who hurt you. I could be cavalier. And thoughtless. I think I was "high horse." Is that the word? It is not the fault of the tenderhearted person, who is hurt. We need to assume we're all tenderhearted. Because we are.

This person who hurt people who used to be here felt herself in her life to have been victimized. She never imagined that she could have hurt others. Nor would she have wanted to hurt anybody. She was kind. But she did. She did hurt people. While I am speaking here of somebody who is not me, that description could be me, too.

When I was a young woman, somebody told me I was arrogant. I was secretly pleased. Because the secret part of me felt timid, insecure, vulnerable, fragile. I loved the idea of arrogance because it spoke of somebody who others could not hurt, somebody that nobody could touch. During the same period with men I sought to be a "femme fatal." Not to hurt anybody but to be untouchable. To have the power to reject. To not be rejected. The vulnerability I tried to conceal from myself...but I felt so vulnerable as to be incapable of even imagining a relationship of reciprocity, where vulnerability could come from shared intimacy.

It would be many years where I would be able to feel vulnerability, fully. Or maybe, I still don't. You see. It's not so easy to know if one is the victim or victimizer. Because all of us can be both.

I don't know how to reconcile this, here. We do hurt each other, sometimes with intent. Sometimes inadvertently. By our defensiveness, by prejudice, by indifference, even by role-playing.

I have been thinking the past few days this, I think it was RN who said it. She used the verb "ignore." I think there is a lot of wisdom and strength in this. Because it's so, so easy to be triggered and to think one responds in the best interest, but really all it is, is ego defense trying to bury feeling, by dominating and controlling the conversation. There's strength and responsibility in ignoring. I have a hard time with ignoring. I react.

Yet, if we don't take responsibility here to say how we feel, and what we value, it's the wild west. Everybody will be forced to get out their pistols.

It's hard to know what is right. In a 12 step group there is not cross-talk. But here there is. If there is cross-talk, there is cross-talk. That means we have the right to say what hurts us, right? That means we have the right to say what we need, right? I don't see that this is wrong. As long as we try hard to anticipate the feelings of others, and to take these in account. And recognize that there is not one of us who is not growing. That means we are all of us limited. We need each other to be complete.
 
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Triedntrue

Well-Known Member
It has been awhile since I have posted,(again) been super busy with my grands, it is a whole new ballgame parenting traumatized children. I have a lot to learn, as we navigate this journey and map out triggers, overcome explosive episodes and tirades, all attributed to children’s brain development ravaged by violence and the dark inconsistencies of addicted parents.
It is a rough road, but my Hoku has helped every step of the way. The boys had an extensive evaluation recently, which should reveal strengths and weaknesses and help us help them. Sister is due to go for a simpler testing as she is younger.
On another note, their mother has popped up again, this time we weren’t home and she broke into the house to “shower because I had my period.” Huh. I made a police report. That turned my stomach, but, breaking and entering is unacceptable. She is still on the run from her probation violation, bench warrant over her head. Sigh.
Rain was in the hospital again for cellulitis on the same leg. She waited until she was so feverishly ill with the infection that she couldn’t move, to seek help. Spent three days in the hospital before calling any of us. I visited her and was aghast at her swollen, reddened blistered lower leg. I said all of the things that anyone of us would say, especially that she did not deserve mistreatment from her (once again) violent boyfriend, she could use this hospital stay as a way to get well and clean and get off the streets, how much we all love her, encouraged her to stay for the full treatment.

On my way to visit yesterday, got a call from the nurse.
She left AMA.
Sigh.
I drove down the street looking for her, mostly knowing that if I found her I could not force her to go back.
I am not giving up hope, but am again bracing for awful possibilities. I know, that is polar opposite, still having hope but preparing for the worst. But, I feel that I have to have some kind of shield of the stark reality of it all, for my own sanity.
I found myself rewinding the tapes wondering what I could have done differently, but I did not dwell there. I’ve visited that “if I did or didn’t do this” scenario too many times over these many years.
Didn’t cause it, can’t control or cure it.
I confess, I feel like an emotional zombie at times, or is it unemotional? Is it that I am learning to grieve each crazy situation differently? Am I fooling myself into thinking that I will be fine? Is this acceptance? It’s too soon to tell as I brush aside the thousands of worries having two meth addicted daughters brings. Who am I kidding? Am I brushing them aside or are they brewing underneath the surface waiting to explode into a worry storm, a bomb cyclone, a freaking emotional breakdown, a visit to looney toons with my eyeballs bulging out.
Okay breath Leafy, breath.
What can I do?
Nothing.
Write it out.
Get it out of my system, that nothing can be done frustration of seeing loved ones slowly kill themselves with drugs. Watching their personalities change into Gollum like characters from the Lord of the Rings, morphing into unrecognizable street people always searching for their “precious” next fix. Willing to literally lose life or limb for their unconventional “freedom”.
Willing to leave their three beautiful children.
Who by the way are trying desperately to overcome the trauma inflicted on them throughout their lives by their parents drug use and domestic violence. Then to be left with paternal grandparents who abused and humiliated them. The audacity of their experiences spewing over into my home with yelling and swearing, fights, tightened muscles, clenched jaws and furrowed brows bursting into uncontrollable rage against a past they had no control over. It’s called “re-enactment” a child's way of replaying history, which traumatized them, put them in perpetual flight or fright mode, but.........they feel strange in a calm home.
I am stuck in the middle as they each seem to take on their parents violent outbursts, one sounding just like his mother, the older, his father. That sends me backwards remembering how chaotic my home was, the many TRO’s, then violations, the craziness.
I have to become the therapeutic voice in all of this, remain calm, figure out different coping strategies, try to understand the mechanism behind the madness, avoid triggers, find out how to help them process it all and learn to be peaceable.
It’s like I’m caught on this giant terror go round, a ferris wheel of horrible things repeating themselves.
So, can I just stand on a mountaintop and scream to the universe a gigantic primordial WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
Then comes the voice of my Dad an echoing response to an age old child’s outburst of “LIFE IS NOT FAIR!!!!” To which he replies in ghosted memory “Who said life was fair, Leafy.”
I swallow it down and go to work, fix booboos and comfort children who have somewhat normal lives. Then go home to my three beloved hooligans and hope that we can have a peaceful night.
One day.
My granddaughter looks so much like her mother. Same mannerisms. Same smile. Same goofiness.
I can only try to to do my best to give her love and direction to seek her potential. Part of me sees a bright future, part of me also braces for challenges to come. My grandsons, so handsome and angry. Will we be able to reach them in time?
I’m exhausted!
There, I wrote it out. Thanks to anyone reading along. Yes, I am going a bit cuckoo, but who wouldn’t under the circumstances. Sometimes I feel like the lieutenant in the old Pink Panther movie with the steadily increasing facial twitches (on the inside of me) my face doesn’t twitch.
But my soul does.
I have a quote from Shakespeare on my desk
“Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the o’er fraught heart and bids it break”.
So here I am, back, giving sorrow words. I can’t afford for my heart to break, I have three grands to raise and hopefully, break this cycle of madness. That is no easy feat, but they have no other family fit to raise them.
And I love them.
And, so it goes.
Love to all
Leafy
Leafy i am so sorry for the pain. I hear in your post. It has to be horrible dealing with 2 generations of trauma. Please know that you are doing all you can and more than most would. Make sure you allow yourself some time to decompress. It will help everyone involved if you can take care of yourself. You deserve to have a life as well. Prayers going out to you.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Dear New Leaf

Rain left the abusive man. That is something. There's no way that is nothing. I see people all around me who have stopped using meth. Where I live was ground zero in the 90's. Some people stop. There's no way to know what Rain will do. If she's using less Meth, how is that bad? Less could lead to even less.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Dear RN *Sorry to hijack, New Leaf

I am sorry that the welding training did not work out in the sense that your son decided to not choose it for a career. That he dedicated himself to it with focus and hard work is to his great credit.

These transitional periods are hard for me, too. When they have to dig down into themselves and find motivation and desire and direction. That's scary for me. We have to lay on my son hard for him to do the right thing for himself and us. We are afraid to not lay on hard. Even the idea of a key, is too much risk for us, right now. Because when he had a key as soon as M left the house, my son doubled back to spend the day laying around. There has been too much deception. To trust. Either to trust my son, or to trust his wherewithal to do the right thing for himself.

Today I asked M. Do I have to put aside the idea that J will have a career?

M answered, yes. How many people really have a career that they work in? Think about the people you've known through me, these past 10 years, how many work in a career? None. That J have a normal life, be productive, is enough. It's a lot.

M is right. How could I have been through this for so many years and have my values so distorted? Of course it matters, crucially, that my son be functioning, be content, be part of society, be productive. He has been none of these things, and for a long while it kept getting worse.

For some reason, it's a little better now. This is his 3rd week of working at the Food Bank as a volunteer and he didn't miss one day last week, and brought us verification. For now, his attitude is world's better. And there's been no marijuana. (The requirement is he not use it in the property and not arrive there under the influence or reeking.)

How in the world can I be worried about a career? Have I been a big part of the problem? Was there a point a decade ago when my son could not or did not do what I was subtly pushing for? Did he rebel and through his decisions opt out, completely? He has told me more than once, I'm not you.

Don't parents want their kids to achieve? Push them to be better? I didn't have specific goals I pushed on my son. Only that he have a goal. And work for it. And he did not understand. He did not understand what it was to identify a goal and work for it incrementally. It wasn't a question of wanting to. I think he didn't understand.



 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Thanks Copa. I agree that the hard work my son put into his book-work earning certifications and passing tests was very good for him. He proved he could be a good student. It was not time wasted. He grew from each experience.

After drug use you are afraid they have fried their brain! His is still intact thank God. He also has worked very hard at the few menial jobs he has had here. He has saved $3,000 so he can look for another job now that is better and may have a future. However I am having a very hard time with him not working or being in class right now. Very hard. He is spending a lot of time with his father - who works from home. So why can't I just be happy with that for now??

I also agree with you about a "career". My son feels sad that he "just doesn't know what he wants to do". He feels he is the only one because our other two just knew! I told him many of us don't. I liked to type so I decided to get into the secretarial field. I ended up doing very well and have a job that exceeded all of my expectations. And I don't work too hard but I do work smart. My son says we are never satisfied. I hope to be satisfied but not there yet with him.

The ladies that were somewhat abrasive are no longer on this site. After reading your post I remembered another one that recently left. I do think that most of us have good intentions here.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
It requires me to pray for others who have hurt me in order for my resentments to be resolved. I cannot show up as the best version of me unless I clear my grievances and align with love. My purpose on Earth is to reflect love and forgiveness back to wash human being I encounter.

I also have to bring this love and forgiveness to myself. And that implies that I practice self respect. I don't accept unacceptable behavior from people and that includes me. In order to feel ok about me, I discipline myself to treat everyone in acceptable ways. I can set boundaries calmly, and quietly . There is strength in being in control of my feelings and being calm.
I like this. I need to remember to practice self-respect by setting and keeping boundaries, especially with Josh. As Moms, we tend to be so self-sacrificing that we can often fall into the practice of tolerating stuff we shouldn't. This was a good reminder to me.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
My son says we are never satisfied.
That hurts. Because if I'm honest with myself, I have callouses around my heart with him. Last Friday, when I bumped into him in the Walmart parking lot, he was waiting for the bus, he presented me with a bouquet of carnations. The first words out of my mouth were they're wilted. I mean. Like he's going to find the finest specimens at the Food Bank? That I can remember he's never given me a gift or card, since the years he'd make them in school. What's my problem?

I know what our problem is. For many of us there has been a decade-long descent by our children, or more, into chaos, self-indulgence, lack of discipline, sloth, and moral confusion. Learning occurred in us. That we were dealing with this new iteration of our child. For me, there has been mere weeks of any change, and only for a minute has there been any consistency.
However I am having a very hard time with him not working or being in class right now. Very hard. He is spending a lot of time with his father - who works from home. So why can't I just be happy with that for now??
I think it takes time and consistent evidence of change to begin to operate from a new baseline. For us. We have taken this descent with them. That's why we're here. Our own conduct had become disordered. We had to cut off our hearts and operate from our guts and minds. There's opportunity here, I think. Balance. As well as strength.

I don't think there is one adult child on this thread who doubts the great love of their mother. A child that doubts that their mother's heart beats only to love them. So. I think I have to be okay with letting myself heal and recover too.
My son feels sad that he "just doesn't know what he wants to do".
I think he's very smart and brave to "not know." That is the power position, if you think about it. It takes courage to live from this place. Being open is a good thing.

If he is interested there are so many free quizzes and tests on the internet that help us come to an understanding of how we operate and what are our interests, that translate this into specific vocations. I will look for a few websites for him to check out and get back to you. I have taken some of these tests myself, and it was fun. The results of the tests were entirely consistent with the profession and the interests that I have. Two tests I can think of right now I took are the Myers-Briggs and Enneagram. I think I googled free vocational aptitude or interest test online. Or free personality test online. But I will try to look a little bit and get back to you.

I am wondering if your son might have a desire to work with people. For somebody so young, his life journey has been so inspiring. He has been through so much. And grown so much. Maybe he might want to work in an area where he can share this experience and capacity. From everything you have written, he shines through as a caring and responsive young man, with heart, who connects. Maybe this might be the core of his vocational interest. Who knows?
 
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