And the begging starts

Helpless29

Active Member
Getting closer to my sons court date & now the calls are asking for a second chance. I called Job Corps but with the Coronovirus there not accepting anyone & they don’t know when they will, all I could do was put him on a waitlist ,called a few other places but same thing everywhere. I did mention this to my son but he’s just told me if they send him anywhere he will runaway , I told him then I will not help finding him placement , here I am making so many calls to get him help & that’s what he tells me. I tried talking to my husband about him coming back , but it did not go well, my husband said we tried & that my son needs help , I mentioned how no one is accepting patients but he really didn’t care :/ I don’t know why I keep reading my sons letter over & over , I know he needs me , I need to be here for him. Maybe I’m not thinking clear, sometimes in my mind I think about what if I had a husband who understood my pain , who understood how many nights I cry ,how my life felt so complete when my son was here, would he do this to our kids if they ever struggled with mental illness or addiction or is it’s because he’s my son, as I write this he’s in the shower & I just can’t stop crying , but when he comes in the room , I act like nothing & he has no clue, I’m probably not making any sense , it’s just one of my bad days & Im hurting so much , I get like this everytime court comes up.
 

MissLulu

Well-Known Member
Helpless, I'm sorry you're hurting so much.

It must be hard when you and your husband are not on the same page. I can understand his concerns. My husband and I won't have our son back in our house because we believe that it ultimately doesn't help him to take responsibility for his problems. However, we are both his biological parents and so there isn't the step-parent issue. I understand that it must be so hurtful for you to have another person preventing you from taking the action for your child that you want to. Is it possible for you and your husband to have some couple's therapy, so you can respectfully discuss the issue with a neutral third party?

It's so, so hard when they need us but in reality there's not much we can do unless they are prepared to help themselves. The fact that your son is threatening to run away unless he get the outcome he wants does seem to indicate that he isn't ready to face up to his problems just yet. I've been re-reading "When Your Adult Child Breaks Your Heart". I get a lot of comfort (and practical help) from this book. If you haven't already read it, I would absolutely recommend it.

You're in my thoughts.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
if they send him anywhere he will runaway
The fact that your son is threatening to run away unless he get the outcome he wants does seem to indicate that he isn't ready to face up to his problems just yet
Dear Helpless

I agree with MissLulu about several things. One, I question your son's readiness to change. Two, you and your husband might benefit from counseling, to help with communication. And three: This is heartbreaking.

Many parents would be in a situation where they would be forced to take in their child. And what would happen, is all kinds of acting out, until he was reincarcerated again. Just like what has already happened with your son multiple times now.

Your son eventually will change. But he is not showing any indication that he is at that point now. He wants what he wants. Of course he wants the freedom of living at your house. Of course he wants it that his poor choices would have no consequences. Of course he wants a complete do over. Of course he wants the support of his mother nearby.

Despite your sad feelings (and guilt, I would be willing to bet), there is a reality here. First of all your husband did try. You feared he would not be open to your son's coming home, and he was. As far as what you shared with us, your husband cooperated fully and tried. It was your son who was unwilling or unable to meet the occasion.

It's not that he should suffer or have consequences, that is not my point. The point is that this has happened time and time again. It happened with his grandparents. It happened repeatedly with his Dad. It happened at your home. As far as I recall there have been repeated problems at the facility, too. In one instance I am remembering there was a charge of violence against a female staff member.

Your son seems full of himself. Full of a sense of his power. Full of a sense of his invulnerability. He does not seem to have learned much. He's not the only young man like this, he's got lots of company. But these young bucks need to be checked by life. That is what changes them. I have known thousands like them. Chances don't help them. They run roughshod over chances. What stops this is a brick wall. Consequences. Parents are very, very poor at this. Most of us don't stand a chance. That is reality, as I have lived it.

You have young children. Your husband is a factor here, what he thinks and what he wants. I think he has a right to his feelings. As do you have a right to yours.

I would hope you think of your son. Not just how he is manipulating and pressuring you to get a result he wants, but his real needs and his real welfare. I think there are other ways to show your son you love him and are loyal to him; that you care about his needs.

I don't think capitulating to his pressure equates to love. I think your son is trying to manipulate you. I think he is playing on your heartstrings and guilt.

Your son is not the only one in this picture. All of you and each of you needs to be considered. And I am not clear that coming home to you would even be the best thing for your son. What has changed for him or with him? What will another flame out do for him? How is your home situation set up for containment and supervision? What has changed to make the situation different this time?

Your husband deserves answers to that. Both of you do. Your son needs answers to that, whether or not he recognizes this. His life and welfare are at stake. To think through what the problems and challenges have been and to think through how they could be handled differently this time. If answers can't be found, what would change?

Your son is in this situation because he acted out in numerous ways, contrary to rules, law and conventions. It means that he is likely to continue this way of acting, absent significant, prolonged interventions, incentives and changes. I am questioning if your home and family can provide this for him. This is the elephant in the living room. Your husband is not the elephant. That's how I see it.

I think MissLulu is exactly right. This is about heartbreak.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Put that letter away, hon. It was written to cause you guilt...it is not how he really feels. Kay did this to us too...it's very heart wrenching.

I feel your pain so much. And I embrace you with love in my heart. However, in my opinion it would just be a repeat if he came back. Not only that, but your marriage matters. Your husband isn't cruel. Maybe he is just protective of you and your younger kids. Since he can probably see things through a different lens, maybe he is afraid. My husband was too. I fought him and it almost lead to divorce. It would not have been worth it, in my situation. My husband is a good man who just saw before me that Kay was not going to do better if we enabled her. My guilt and love made me fight the truth.

I send you prayers and virtual hugs and hope you find peace in whatever you decide to do.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Trying

Please read Copa's response over and over. She hit the nail on EVERY head.

Please don't let your husband be the bad guy here; I honestly think he does see you hurt and does care and he probably feels at a loss too. Men don't show it the way we do.

I do hope that you come to terms with what you need to do. This is so very hard.
 

Helpless29

Active Member
Thank you all, today is a better day. I know my husband is not the bad guy, he is a wonderful father/ husband, he did put his all into it when my son was was here, he tried helping him as much as he could, He explained to me that he cannot watch me get hurt over & over again, how we constantly have to lie to the younger ones about his absence when they ask about him . He said it hurt him to .I know he has the best intentions for our family but I just wish he would understand my life will never be complete without my son. If the courts cannot find placement for my son, he will be there till he’s 18 teen, which is only a few months , his birthday is Jan 2nd.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Honestly, I would let him stay there until his 18th birthday and give your brain a rest for now. Do not feel guilty. If you say you won't then you won't.

He is like my son WAS. Nothing we did helped him. He was hell bent on doing things his way, he was so far down the wrong path. I honestly thought he was going to end up in jail for a long time.

He will see that you mean business if you let him stay there over the holidays. I had to do that to my son when I let him spend a few years away from us. It changed him. I honestly didn't think anything would at that point. Hey you've tried everything else - as I had. I had to get real tough and I'm SO VERY GLAD I DID. I had to break his spirit so he could SEE what he was doing to himself and me.
 

BloodiedButUnbowed

Well-Known Member
I have, perhaps, a unique perspective to share. I am the stepparent of not just one, but two troubled young men. Last year I was faced with the difficult choice of either accepting my violent, drug-addicted and felony-convicted stepson, who was then 19, into the home my wife and I share, or potentially leaving either the household, or my marriage, if my wife and I could not come to an agreement.

In the end my wife and I agreed on contract language for my stepson (DS) and he did move in with us. He recently moved out of his own volition, but if he had not, my wife and I were once again on the cusp of a difficult conversation. (DS relapsed and refused to return to rehab, which was one of the conditions in the contract. I was adamant that he would have to go if he refused to abide by the contract; wife - his bio mom - would have been willing to negotiate terms of him continuing to stay with us. Thankfully he did choose to leave and we were spared this decision.)

Most of his year with us was okay, to wonderful. I have to admit my worst fears, for the most part, never came true. He had a violent history with my wife and that was my worst fear. He never raised a hand to person, pet or property while he was here. The worst that actually occurred, were a couple of heated arguments where he used profanity and screamed at us, the last of which occasioned him leaving our house and choosing to try living on his own. He is now out of our home and is not communicating with either his mother or myself, for the time being anyway. He is on probation for another year and a half, and relapse might well send him back to jail, let alone homelessness or whatever other condition he may encounter. He is now 20 and it is up to him.

In the future, and my wife knows this, while I am on board with providing time-limited assistance such as funds for a room or something of that nature, I do not want him living under our roof again. He is disrespectful, arrogant, and not someone who can live productively and harmoniously in a family setting. He either needs to be in an institutional setting with a great deal of structure, or living independently. Sadly, he is very difficult (hence his nickname in my signature) and nobody can get along with him for long unless the person agrees with him on everything and never has a differing opinion.

Please understand there is a middle ground between enabling an adult child and shutting the door on her/him. My wife and I were able to (mostly) find that middle ground. We will see what the next chapter with him and his brother will be. For now we are good and my stepson is in the care of his Higher Power.
 

Helpless29

Active Member
How are things going Helpless?
Nothing has changed , there just holding my son in Juvenile Detention because there is no where for him to go, there are no placement programs that will take him either because of his age , his pending charges or because of the Coronovirus. Once he turns 18teen in January they just don’t just release him , they said he can be transferred and kept till he’s 21 if there is no where for him to go. I sound like a broken record but once again I am trying to convince my husband to give him another chance.Lately I’ve had more bad days then good, I almost feel like & “The begging starts “relates to me I feel like I’m practically begging my husband to let my son come back , it makes me feel angry & resentment towards him.I cannot let my son just sit there , I don’t think it will be good for him & it will just make him feel unwanted & hurt him more emotionally& mentally. Sorry for rambling, I needed someone to talk to, thank you for asking . I can’t escape this headache.
 

overcome mom

Active Member
Helpless- I know how you feel I have been in your situation. My son has been in jail and prison many times. I have let him come home on numerous occasions. I have also denied him. It has been the same situation that you have had- in that if I didn't agree then he was going to stay in jail or prison sometimes years longer. You cannot be released on parole with no place to stay.
The question I ask myself now is if I had to do it over again would I take him in? Part of me says no but most of me says yes. When my son was younger 19-21 he would argue with my husband and I, he was never violent but at times I feared he would turn that corner. When he was older, he would tell his parole/probation officer that he was living here and then take off so I never really had to live with him. It was very stressful having him here but it was unbearably stressful having him locked up. I felt and still feel that the way that he is treated in jail and prison is barbaric for the most part and not helpful to him. Yes, he does need consequences but years locked up have diminishing returns. The good it does is to keep him off the streets and prevents him from using drugs. I know these are not minor things but it is just a stop gap measure and when he gets out it is the same old thing. He is the one that has to make the change. Being locked up has just reinforced his criminal /drug behavior. I may feel differently if I had younger children like you.
It would be best of course if he could go to some kind of structured program instead of your home but I do know all to well many times these are not available. I think if you did let him come home you have to realize that he is most likely not going to change ( as others have pointed out) and that things will be very disruptive and you may end up, very soon, kicking him out. You will make the best decision for you and your family
P.S. I know exactly where you are coming from with the anxiety when they are going to court. My son goes to court on Friday and I only got 4 1/2 hours of sleep last night. .
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
There are two sides to every coin. It worked for us to let our son reap the consequences of his actions by not letting him be with us but I know that is a hard decision to make to let them be, not knowing if it will truly make them SEE that bad actions equal bad consequences.

I did that because of the advice I got here because otherwise I never would have even thought of it to tell you the truth.

But we all do what our heart can bear and pray for a good ending.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Dear Helpless

I have not had a chance to read all of the recent posts but I read yours and I read Overcome Mom's. I have regret too because my son was homeless and picked up bad habits that way. At the same time I believe that these are adult people and they can't be sheltered from the consequences of their behavior.

Although your son is still a child, technically, he has persisted in acting quite badly. However, I think like you do at this point. He has had to sit in that place where he is a long time. I support you in tryting to negotiate with your husband. But I don't think the whole responsibility should be yours and and your husbands. I think the probation department needs to work with you to put together a plan of support and consequences. Everything should be spelled out, in terms of conditions. Your son needs to know going in (or getting out) what will happen, what are his obligations and what will happen should he not meet them. I think this should be part of and written into his release plan. The plan of support needs to be therapy, probation department involvement, and other things established in advance. Maybe there needs to be family therapy. If there are drug and alcohol issues there needs to be treatment. If there has been violence and aggression, that needs to be anticipated too, by services. Before. Not after. Maybe if this is done your husband will accept another try.

I do not think it would be a good idea to just let your son show up, absent a safety net and absent a support system. I think this would be way worse for him. It would be a set up for your child. And for you and your family. But the true victim would be your son. There are far worse things than staying in custody a few months more. Failure because your son is not adequately supported, by getting what he needs, to me would be a worse thing.
 

overcome mom

Active Member
I do think that copa's suggestion of trying to get the probation officer involved in helping you with resources and reading him the riot of what will happen if he continues on the path he was on. Also the setting up what would be expected IF he comes into your home and what the consequences will be if he does not respect those rules. This is where the difficultly is for me, really following through with having him leave if he doesn't follow the rules. You have to know if you are strong enough to do this if your not then I wouldn't have him home. Could you wait until you could get something set up for him prior to saying yes or is it a decision that as to to made prior to his court date?
 

Helpless29

Active Member
I do think that copa's suggestion of trying to get the probation officer involved in helping you with resources and reading him the riot of what will happen if he continues on the path he was on. Also the setting up what would be expected IF he comes into your home and what the consequences will be if he does not respect those rules. This is where the difficultly is for me, really following through with having him leave if he doesn't follow the rules. You have to know if you are strong enough to do this if your not then I wouldn't have him home. Could you wait until you could get something set up for him prior to saying yes or is it a decision that as to to made prior to his court date?
No it’s not a decision that needs to be made right away, The Juvenile system does not help with much because he will be 18 teen soon , all they can offer is counseling , and as far as consequences, they will only say if he runs away or does drugs he goes back to jail, he knows the routine. If I do not pick him up , they can hold him till he’s 21 or find him a homeless shelter to help young adults, I wish there was more options but at this point PO can only offer places for him to get counseling or keep him detained. Yes he is safe but I feel like mentally it is not helping him. That’s why I’m so confused on what to do.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Helpless:

I hear your struggle and despair. I felt that too because nothing helped our son. The resources were there for him but HE was not willing to open his heart and mind to them so they may as well not have been there. He just went through the routine until he could get out and do whatever he wanted. Wash, Rinse, Repeat

I remember being so happy with all the wonderful people he had been surrounded with at rehabs and sober livings he had attended when we first sent him away to Florida when he was 20. I felt finally THEY'D get through to him. They had been former addicts themselves and on the wrong track. People that are either former drug users or former SCREW UPS are some of the best people I have EVER met in my life!

At one point he was literally in a beautiful home, more like a mansion really that was a rehab then new apartments not far away for sober living. The man that ran the program was a former addict who had gotten sober on his own when he one day realized he just didn't want to live that way anymore. He was a very impressive young man, clean cut (actually meticulous with himself) and running the program while working on his master's degree. No one ever would have guessed that HE was anything like my son. He told he he was even worse than my son!! That program did not help him either. We threw up our hands. We did not understand WHY he did not want to change. That man did tell me that my son was very smart and he felt that he would be okay eventually....

I do believe that each and every intervention/person/program helped move him ever so slightly in the right direction though. I have to believe that all our efforts were not in vain. Someday I will ask him. I just can't go there right now. I don't know when I will be able to have a real talk with him about his past.

We can not make any of your decisions for you. This is the hardest thing ever but I do offer you my support and prayers!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I feel like I've suggested this before but if so, I will do so again: What about Job Corps? They will take him. It's free. It's supervised. They house and train them. He wants to be a chef. There is that training I am pretty sure. They work quickly. He could be accepted and there within a couple of weeks. They work with probation. They accept kids like your son. That's their target population. My son went. I love Job Corps. There are centers all over the country.
 
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Helpless29

Active Member
I feel like I've suggested this before but if so, I will do so again: What about Job Corps? They will take him. It's free. It's supervised. They house and train them. He wants to be a chef. There is that training I am pretty sure. They work quickly. He could be accepted and there within a couple of weeks. They work with probation. They accept kids like your son. That's their target population. My son went. I love Job Corps. There are centers all over the country.
I called Job Corps a month ago they are not accepting anyone because of the Coronovirus:( and they don’t know how long it will be till they will accept new people, I did put him on a waiting list.
 

TerriH

Active Member
Helpless29, 7 years ago my own son was put into the Diversion program as a first offender and it ended up being a good thing for him. The authorities seriously were trying to guide him. My own efforts did not succeed but their efforts did, partly because they were not the Mom.

I had warned him about his behavior often enough but he did not listen to me: he did listen to the judge. It also cost him a pretty penny as he was given a fine and court costs: I gave him work around the place and I paid him just above minimum wage but he did have to earn it himself. He was to pay it in installments over a 9 month period and he was pretty burned out on mowing lawns, doing housework, etc but he did finish. AND he has stayed out of trouble since then

Helpless29 I feel your pain. I have been there myself.

And now you have a duty to the rest of your family, and to yourself, to keep yourself well and strong so that you can be there when you are needed. I know it is hard, but, please be kind to yourself and keep yourself well
 
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