Casey Anthony Bombshell!

[DammitJanet]

Now heather, I know I talked to you about this when it happened because you told me how much you hated Nancy Grace...lol.

Witz, I think you and I are on the same page. I submitted a post onto a HLN blog last night summarizing the fact that I felt that Casey fell under the Cluster B Personality Disorders and that as such blaming her parents was useless. The only slight thing that could have been done to "maybe" help her would have been therapy at some point in time but even then it wasnt a given because a person with a personality disorder, especially ASPD or Narcissistic really dont feel anything is wrong with them so they wont comply with treatment.

I dont feel that her parents were anything more than average parents with average problems. I do think maybe the grandparents put blinders on a bit when Casey kept Caylee away all those weeks thinking Casey was just playing keep away but I remember when Lindsay did the same thing to me one time and I certainly didnt assume Keyana was dead. Really what more could they do than call Casey and try to find out where she was? It was Casey telling the lies. I certainly dont know all of Cory's friends or all of Lindsays friends. I wont know exactly where Lindsay is moving in MO and I can only hope and pray she is telling me the truth. Grandparents have no power.

I can tell you I wouldnt have handled this any better than the Anthony's did. Probably worse.

 

[donna723]

" ... how incredibly respectful they are towards her - as though she is a princess, the queen of their castle or something... "

I don't know. It does seem like they are walking on eggshells around her in the tapes of the jail visits but it's hard to know why. But these tapes were made in the weeks right after she was arrested. At this time her parents were still believing everything she said, had no idea that the baby was dead, had no idea that everything she was saying was lies, and they really believed that she was the grieving, anxious, concerned mother that she was pretending to be, even if the police didn't think so. They wanted to believe her because they didn't want to believe that something terrible had happened to the baby. Maybe they just wanted her to stay calm and didn't want to upset her further because they still believed that their granddaughter had been abducted by this "nanny". Or it could be that over the years, because of her behavior, they learned to walk on eggshells around her all the time to avoid setting her off! It could be that this was their regular pattern of family interaction with her since she was so volitale and so unpredictable.

 

[DDD]

Re Nancy Grace....I agree. She always is 100% convinced that a dfendant is gulty and deserves the maximum penalty. Our Judicial system is suppose to be fair and not just the Prosecutions position. Again I say thank heavens for the jury system.

On Dr. Drew last night, by the way, there was a discussion about the duct tape over the mouth etc. His guest said "if the little girls drowned there would be no reason for duct tape" and Dr. Drew replied
that following drowning the human body spasms body contents which laymen don't usually know but law enforcement and medical people do know. I found that interesting. DDD

 

[AnnieO]

Well, believe it or not, I would have never heard of Casey Anthony and know nothing about this case if it wasn't for this board.

And, I think this might be the longest thread ever.

The only reason this even caught my attention was... Her first name and mine are the same. And you just might be right...

 

[flutterby]

And Janet, you're part of the board. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. You posted about it early on. And I really can't stand Nancy Grace. I can't imagine going through life that angry all the time.

 

[susiestar]

I think Witz made an excellent point. The parents are just parents like you or I with a difficult child. While there WAS help for troubled kids 20 yrs ago that wasn't there when we were little, a LOT of people did not know about it. Heck, when I started taking Wiz to a psychiatrist because he was suicidal I got an incredible load of flack from everyone who knew us, even those who knew that at 7 he had made serious attempts to end his life. They told me I was "overreacting" and it was "a phase" because he didn't like teachers to correct his mistakes. Reality was that the teachers held him accountable for THEIR mistakes and punished him and openly made fun of him to the other kids hwne he made errors correcting things that the teachers wrote to send home to parents. And he NEEDED a psychiatrist and medications, it was NOT overreacting, it was appropriate reaction to an extreme situation.

The parents may not have known all that she did. So many tell us that our difficult children, ones we KNOW are dangerous and ones we have been afraid will cause us serious bodily hard, are not dangerous and do not need intensive treatment. so if a psychiatrist can tell step or daisyface that their difficult children don't need Residential Treatment Center (RTC), well, it isn't out of line to thing that the Anthony's had no idea how disturbed Casey was and how little she cared for her daughter. It is easy to pretend to be a loving parent when people are around, esp for someone like Casey Anthony.

I am with upallnight. I truly do not think she thought her daughter was dead when she went out renting movies. I think the child was in that car trunk, sedated with some drug - likely chloroform and xanax, and that it was NOT the first time. I think the duct tape was applied Occupational Therapist (OT) keep her from crying and others from hearing her, and she was left in that car for over a day because Casey and her boyfriend spent the entire next day never leaving the bedroom. Caylee died from a combo of these things - drugs, duct tape and the car trunk, and when Casey finally remembered how long she had been in the trunk and how hot it was, the baby was dead and Casey started CYA maneuvers.

I also think that knowing that Caylee was becoming very verbal and would soon start telling people what was going on was a BIG part of what happened. Maybe a supposed "last hurrah" party before she stopped, or maybe she lied to herself that way the way addicts tell themselves that they will quit after this high, maybe just didn't want to deal with it and thought she could hide it and not give up the kid or have people think she was a bad mother.

I do think her friends have no clue what a good mother is though. Cause the good moms that I know do not go out regularly to party. Once a kid comes along the partying stops or seriously dies down because parenting is a time consuming and expensive occupation and partying is also expensive and time consuming.

 

[Malika]

I don't know. It does seem like they are walking on eggshells around her in the tapes of the jail visits but it's hard to know why. But these tapes were made in the weeks right after she was arrested. At this time her parents were still believing everything she said, had no idea that the baby was dead, had no idea that everything she was saying was lies, and they really believed that she was the grieving, anxious, concerned mother that she was pretending to be, even if the police didn't think so. .

Oh yes, of course... I had forgotten that, watching the tapes now from the perspective that she had in fact killed or been responsible for the death of the little girl.

I have got interested in the motives and the characters behind this case and, like flutterby, had no idea of its existence other than through this board. So I can blame you

 

[HaoZi]

Interesting tidbit - Juliette Lewis, her make believe friend - anyone realize that is the actress that starred in Natural Born Killers. Kinda creepy seeing what kind of movies she was renting that day from the video store

Marcie

I mentioned it a while ago, and that was the same movie I thought of first.

 

[AnnieO]

Cause the good moms that I know do not go out regularly to party. Once a kid comes along the partying stops or seriously dies down because parenting is a time consuming and expensive occupation and partying is also expensive and time consuming.

EXACTLY!

I was never much of a partier... But with Onyxx and Jett around, I am even MORE of a homebody than I was. Why? Well, someone has to be there to make dinner! To make sure the kids shower and get to bed. husband can do this - but I'm a Mom. I "have" to. Heart says so. No matter if they're "mine" or not.

 

[DammitJanet]

Exactly on the mom thing. I was a difficult child but when I had the boys, my party days ended. Like I always said, I put away my toys and grew up. You have to. Sure there were times I sort of resented it because of the way at least Billy came to be but I would have never even considered killing him.

 

[Malika]

Can I indulge in a little psychological speculation that has no other basis than my idle imagining? Casey did not grow up because she was spoiled and perhaps infantilised by her parents; when she had a baby herself, she remained living at home and her parents provided much of the emotional and all of the material care for the child, allowing Casey to continue her irresponsible, pleasure-seeking lifestyle. By saying this I am NOT blaming the parents - for whom I feel much sympathy.

 

[donna723]

" ... Caylee was becoming very verbal and would soon start telling people what was going on was a BIG part of what happened."

Susie, that's exactly what I was thinking too! Caylee was almost three years old and all of Casey's lies and deceptions would have soon come to light as soon as Caylee could communicate well enough to spill the beans! The poor kid probably thought it was normal to be put to sleep in the trunk of the car, but it was only a matter of time before she would have been letting things slip that would have blown Casey's lies right out of the water and the grandparents would find out what was really going on. It would all be over the first time she came home and said, "Grandma, guess what we did today!" on a day when she was supposedly with her imaginary babysitter and her mother was supposedly at her imaginary job! It was all coming to an end, Casey would have to give up her party-girl life-style, and all her lies would have been exposed. That alone could have been sufficient motive (to her, anyway) for killing her daughter if she thought she could pass it off as an abduction or an accident.

 

[Jody]

I can't say much except that I hope they give her the death penalty. I haven't watch the trial, but I have kept up on this story. She is guilty, guilty, guilty. However it happened, to me she is a monster. To go out and party after your child dies. OMG. I just cannot imagine anyone being that coldhearted and cruel. What a beautiful little girl. She could have given her up for adoption anything. But to take her life and then go and party.

 

[susiestar]

Heck, by the time she was a month old Casey could have just turned her over to her parents and been done with her. It owuld have cut off some of their financial support, but threatening to take her away would have loosened those strings fast most likely. No cop wants his peers to know that his daughter is using her daughter for extortion of him, not even a retired one. I think the defense that she and her dad hid it was blown out of the water when the jail tapes were played. NO way her dad asked her those things that way if he knew she was dead. Just not believable.

I bet the daughter was close to letting it slip taht mommy put hr into the trunk last night or whenever when she was killed. Part of what convinces me it was murder and NOT an accident was the duct tape. It was three overlapping pieces that were in her HAIR. NO ONE puts duct tape in a child's hair and doesn't expect them to scream when it is taken out or to tell people about it. One source on tv tried to say the tape could have happened because the body expells fluids when it dies and the tape was to keep it in. If that is so, why isn't it on her privates and bottom? More comes out of those than your mouth and nose when you die, Know what I mean??? Gross, yes, but also true.

I think her parents did spoil her, esp after the baby was born, but largely because they ahd no idea what to do with a kid who was a difficult child. They likely did not know all she had done because they worked to support her and coulldn't be home after school or other times she was home while they worked. Sad fact of life for parents of difficult children. NO matter what they did for her, she sure paid them back with her lies about abuse. IF her dad is the monster she claims, why leave her child with him? Ever?

I watched a clip on cnn.com that had a woman who taught body language and deception detection all over the world to all the big agencies. She went through George's testimony and broke it down to show WHY she believed he was truthful when denying involvement or abuse. She had excellent points.

 

[klmno]

why isn't it on her privates and bottom? More comes out of those than your mouth and nose when you die, Know what I mean???

VERY good point! You should email that to the prosecution to make sure they don't overlook that point. I had thought that if she was already dead and they put the tape on her for that reason, that there still should be some sort of forensic evidence that the tape was placed after death instead of before. I haven't heard if there is evidence of this either way but I would hope there would be.

Re. the theory that her father encouraged and hid a coverup of an accident - my only thought is that IF a father panicked and was so worried about his daughter being accused falsely over an accidental death, that father probably wouldn't have that same daughter carry the body around in her trunk with her for days and "go down" alone. That type of father would be the one that did the dirty work and the one sitting in jail right now to keep his daughter out. So, if by theory he "talked" Casey into hiding all this when it was really an accident, I honestly can't see any connection to previous abuse whatsoever, much less how that would help him stay out of trouble. Now, if Casey was 13yo and living at home under her parents rule and doing something major difficult child and violent would get cps involved and juvenile courts- yes, then it could happen. But I don't see it in this case. in my humble opinion, as I said before, any previous abuse by her father and/or brother is not related to whether or not she killed her daughter- well, it might be indirectly related but it just doesn't justify it. She was old enough to move herself and the baby away. Period. They should have left this out of the case until the sentencing hearing and they are begging for her life- then it would make sense to bring it up.

 

[HaoZi]

One source on tv tried to say the tape could have happened because the body expells fluids when it dies and the tape was to keep it in.

I just have to ask: Who was that &^$&ing stupid?

Who wouldn't try to remove the tape if it was on them, even a toddler? Yes, I know some answers - just something to think about.

 

[susiestar]

Does it bother anyone else that in the jailhouse tapes (that were NOT suppressed though the defense fought hard to suppress them) the ONLY reaction to finding out how much the reward for Caylee's safe return was over $200,000 was that it was almost half her bail amount? There was no "I hope that will be enough to convince them to return her", no "Wow, it is great that so many people want her found enough to contribute" no "thank heavens people care this much", jsut how it relates to HER.

Also striking from the tapes released was her focus on being in jail and not with the family, how she wanted to be there when Caylee came home, not in jail and having to wait 3 days to get a visit. She also said or implied sevral times that if she wasn't out of jail she could not answer her parents' questions or contribute. That she could do nothing while in jail. I realize it must have been a helpless feeling and that no one likes jail, but she sure could have told the truth about things or even given any answer. She seemed to be wanting to keep the answers, truthful or not, to herself until she was out of jail. THEN she would go find her daughter, but if she wasn't free to find her she wouldn't help anyone else find her. in my opinion that there is totally NOT what a mother would say/do.

If it were MY child, and I was in jail because he disapperared, I would be shouting whatever I knew to the rooftops - no conversation would happen with anyone where I did not give all the info/answers I could until my child was safe. I can remember the times when Wiz would disappear at the grocery store - not many because I watched him like a hawk, but no way would I have NOT asked for help ASAP. Heck, he was gone for all of five minutes in a Biggs grocery store in OH and I had hte entire store, the mall mgmt and the cops assigned to the mall searching. He wandered off on purpose and was found, but I had help in less than FIVE minutes. I cannot believe that ANY parent who loved their child wouldllie about it for a week, much less a month. No. Way. In. Hades. heck, gfgbro kept my kdis out for 4 hours when my parents let him take them to the lake (the hideous sunburn incident for those that remember) and my parents had the cops looking for him. He had promised to return them by 2 and by 4 my mom asked the cops to look for them. I was traveling back to OH from a visit with them, with infant thank you. We no sooner got home from the hour drive to from the airport and had a message stating that he hadn't returned them and they were looking, and two hour later he came in and they were super sick from the sunburns - doctor report to CPS sick from sunburn. No way would he have made it overnight with them with-o the police knowing. NO parent would do that. NONE.

 

[klmno]

Another thought/question. What would you do and what can one do if they know their child is a compulsive liar even as an adolescent? I know my difficult child has been lieing to me for several years. I don't believe he could do this to his child (murder), if he had one. But 1) what therapist could help with this problem or who could I take him to to "change" it? Who could Cindy have taken Casey to for this?, 2) If you know they lie and have all thru their teen years but also know that doesn't make them a murderer, what should or what can parents do when a major issue comes up and you think you are trying to do whatever it takes to get the kid to finally tell the truth so whenever that adult kid does come up with a story, you have no idea whether or not to believe it? This sort of internal struggle has to be what drove Cindy, if not George too, in how they dealt with Casey. They didn't want to beleive she killed their grand daughter- that her grand daughter was dead or that Casey could go that far. There really was no reason to think she would murder her own child. I think they were handling things the way they were early on to just try to get Casey to tell the truth and give them a lead of how to get Caylee back. Haven't we all tried every method under the sun at times trying to get a beleivable story out of our difficult children? Partly because we didn't want to accept the worst and partly because we want to beleive them and partly because we want them to finally realize how serious things have gotten and they need to just come clean?

 

[donna723]

"Who wouldn't try to remove the tape if it was on them, even a toddler?"

I assumed that she had drugged the little girl or put her out with the chloroform first, then put the duct tape on when she was unconscious.

And listening to her whine and complain in those tapes during the visits just made me sick! It was all about HER, how miserable SHE was being in jail, how nobody would listen to HER, nobody would help HER! It was all about poor little HER!!! And she kept going on at her parents like she expected them to do something about it! And in the beginning, when they were assuming the child had been abducted, the police DID try to help her and all she did is lie to them and lead them on wild goose chases!

And I didn't get to watch all of it this afternoon but it looked like the guy who did the forensic work and evidence gathering on the car really nailed it!

 

[HaoZi]

I assumed that she had drugged the little girl or put her out with the chloroform first, then put the duct tape on when she was unconscious.

You hit it right there. How did the tape get over nose and mouth unless A) she was trying to get loose and failed, or B) it was intentionally placed there on an unconscious victim or held in place.
Had she tried to get loose there would be adhesive residue on her hands/nails, and that residue would have still been there.