Casey Anthony Bombshell!

[susiestar]

Alphabet Lady, I was stymied by this with my own difficult child and he didn't do a tenth of what Casey did. They could take her to therapy - if she would go and cooperate. highly unlikely to be more than a waste as she felt nothing was wrong with her or her actions. They could try for medications if there was some symptom or a full exam showed a mental health issue. Again, probably not effective. I doubt they could get her into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) - at least not if it was reputable. there are those who take anyone and are truly abusive rather than tough and therapeutic. Again, not very effective because she would most likely figure out what they wanted to hear and tell it to them. they could press charges when they found that she had stolen from her family, and encouraged the friends she stole from to press charges. But that would just either put her on house arrest which George and Cindy would have to monitor or it would land her where she is now - jail where she could learn all kinds of ways to evade the law and do what she wanted. There is a reason that some cops call jail "criminal college" - it is where skills are taught are taught and learned.

Honestly, maybe they could have not given her so many things, material ones, but I doubt it would have done much except have her steal to get what she wanted. But even that probably would have little impact in the long run. I do think that early therapy could have ruled in or out the abuse defense. But I am not sure it would have helped a whole lot. Casey could claim she didn't tell because she was scared, etc...

I can somewhat imagine their horror and anger and other extreme emotions toward Casey. On some level they likely feel responsible - even thought they are NOT, and no one wants to raise a child to become a murderer. At least not anyone with even a bit of human decency.

As for the constant lies, a while back someone posted a link to a youtube video made by a mom who was raising kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). She actually had quite a few of the videos. She said that she never tried to catch them in a lie - and purposely would not ask questions like "did you do X?" or "who did Y?". I cannot describe the approach from the video because my mind is going wonky from allergy medications, but I found the link to her videos on youtube and they are as I remembered them - great advice and examples of how they work in her home with her kids. Now I don't think Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) is what Casey Anthony has, nor do I think many of our difficult children have it, but the method is still one taht is quite helpful. Would not have helped in this case, it was just too big for this approach to work, but if used much earlier it might have helped. I esp like the way the mom in the video talks about how things went before she learned and was able to consistently do the various things she is discussing. in my opinion that makes a big difference because it isn't some "expert" who has treated people with the disorder and then went home to his life, it is from someone in the trenches like us.

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/user/christinemoers?feature=chclk#p/u/2/iDnEy8Rn4fY

 

[Marcie Mac]

I think everyone is so facinated with her because she is so out of the norm, so extreme, has her wiring SOOOO different from most of the people on the planet. Was she over indulged, or spoiled, did the parents contribute to her development of who Casey is their fault. I don't know if any of us will ever know, except something bad happened and she was involved. If she was abused, its hard to wrap ones head around the fact that she is in this permanent fugue state. I remember reading years about about a woman who was so badly abused from infancy her core personality was just destroyed, and her mind developed multiple personalities to help her survive, wish I could remember her name. Or does she suffer from a permanent dissociative identity disorder so extreme its mind boggling to the rest of us

But having said that you would think with all that the information that was developed about these imaginary people and the intricate finely constructed stories, her attorney or someone would be going with an insane defense but I realize it is not up to him to go this route. I think, why come up with something like an accidental drowning, which WOULD be plausable to me, with a badly botched cover up as she was panicked, but then blame it on years of abuse with really no actual "proof" which is ok cause you can state what you want and its up to the state to counteract that fact - you don't have to prove anything.

You watch her listen to all of the testamony and sometimes I wonder if she is even there in the courtroom with the rest of the people - who could be that "flat" when being you are being disected and discussed. Most of her emotion is when its about her personally, very little when its her daughter. I am telling you, if one of my kids drowned, they would be able to hear me screaming 5 blocks over.

I think normal people are understandably using their own point of reference when it comes to dealing with the who what where and when - one couldn't even "imagine" any of these senarios, have never come across such an extreme anomoly of a person and want to have an answer that makes sense to normal people, and unfortunately, unless she breaks (personally don't think so) or someone gets into her head, no one will ever know

Marcie

 

[DammitJanet]

Susie you reminded me of something when you mentioned your parents calling the police about your kids.

When Billy was 5 months old his father and grandfather basically kidnapped him from me. We were in the process of separating and my then husband's father had come up from FL to visit with my husband and my son. I allowed my husband and the grandfather to take the baby out to dinner that night and they were going to also visit with my husbands sister who lived in the same town. My husband was supposed to have the baby back to me by 7 because his father...the grandfather...had a flight to catch back to FL at 7:30 that night.

Well, 7 came and no baby. 7:15 came and no baby. At that point we called my sister in law and she said they had dropped her off at 6 so me and my father called the cops and the FBI immediately. We didnt even wait. We also called the airport to attempt to get the manifest for the plane to FL. We found out which flights were heading to that part of FL leaving at 7:30 and tried to find out if my husband was on it. Problem is my husband and his father have the same exact name except one is the third and one is the fourth...billy is the fifth.

The cops checked too but they couldnt stop the plane. It took off before we could get everything together. The manifest only listed one person with our last name though so the FBI was waiting at the gate in FL. If my husband hadnt been on that plane the grandfather was going to be arrested for kidnapping on sight. Unfortunately, my husband was there.

But point being...it didnt take me or my father 15 minutes to notify the police and the FBI when my baby was late to get home.

 

[DDD]

Alot of the family dynamic is more than familiar to me. easy child/difficult child was "unexpected". husband and I decided to support GFGmom during her pregnancy, give her four to six months at home bonding with her baby (keeping the house straight and preparing dinner before we got home from work)...and then she would get a job, find an apartment, and hopefully the two of them would live happily ever after with supportive family nearby. Sounded like a good plan.

She got restless and found a job after three months. Seemed good. She worked in the evening and we worked in the day so there was no need for a stranger babysitter. No problem. BUT once she was working she began to focus on the joys of having her independence again. Just like in the testimony, easy child/difficult child would cry when she went out. Just like Cindy and her husband we encouraged her to spend her free time with her child. SO...easy child/difficult child ended up with three parents!

Circumstances can put you in a place you never expected to be. I "get" all that. My daughter is/was no Casey Anthony but she is impulsive and self-centered even now. She is not a habitual liar but she does aim to please her own needs and makes choices that are wrong on a consistent basis. To the best of her ability she loves her three children and she would never purposely harm them. She never drank or did drugs but she thrived on fun company.

Maybe because of the similarities I just can't picture Casey purposely killing her child. I can picture her being conniving and having a tragic result...which then lead to a string of complex lies to avoid the truth. Guess we'll see in the end. I can say in my case I never worried about purposeful harm or injury to the grandkids. Maybe the Anthony's didn't either. DDD

 

[Malika]

I have watched the tape of Casey talking to her father in prison and it really does almost defy belief that she would cry with such apparently total sincerity, repeating how much she misses and loves her daughter and wants to see her, when she in fact knew she was dead and had had some hand in her death. She is totally plausible, seems totally genuine. It is extraordinary.

 

[klmno]

I agree- I think she has lost so much credibility that not many people would believe anything she said whether it had ever been true or not. You know, it's unfortunate that perhaps that was some horrible background of abuse but the fact that no one will believe that now....well....she has no one but herself to blame for that. I thought I'd never say that a victim "shouldn't" be believed but Goodness...how could anyone believe anything she says?

DDD- I like your thinking in your last post. Just think though, what it might possibly be like for a person whose difficult child not only had something to do (more than likely) with the death of the grandbaby, or at least covered it up, then accused your husband of causing it because he'd sexually abused her for years as a child. Like a previous poster mentioned, this does go WAY beyond anything those of us here have had to deal with. TG!!! I can't imagine their family, even without Casey at home and free, ever being able to heal and survive as a family unit. There will be more pain and outfall in this family once this trial is over and Casey's future is determined and they adjust to that. THEN Cindy and George will have to do with all those "what ifs" that will surely come to Cindy's mind. What IF Lee did try something- not that it justified what Casey did, but how will that affeect how Cindy handles any future child Lee has after he's married, for example.

in my humble opinion, I know it seems like the only feasible way to make sure a baby is taken care of and keep a family supporting each other, but I have only heard of one situation where a family helped a young pregnant daughter and didn't end up overly attached to the baby themselves, the daughter/young mother resenting it, the others feeling the daughter/young mother was/is ungrateful, the baby growing up feeling torn and thinking he has to choose which one to be loyal to, etc. It usually leaves hard feelings in a family for generations. That's just what I've seen ...not gospel for everyone.

DDD- could you ever tell your daughter the good things you have seen her do as a parent? Not saying she did good when it was really a huge mistake, but the things you just mentioned below- have you been able to communicate and acknowledge that to her without bringing up a "but....this undid it" or "this was worse than any good you did", etc.? I am working hard these days to get back to a point where I can do this with my son. Once we have crossed that line, it seems so hard to regroup enough to acknowledge and let the difficult child know that we still know he/she isn't all bad, while still staying detached enough to not get soaked back into it when we really can never go back and put rose-colored glasses on, Know what I mean?? Acceptance of a person is so much easier when it isn't our own difficult child it seems. But maybe that can go a long way if we can find a good emotional balance within ourselves....still seeing the negative qualities but just accepting them and learning how to keep our appropriate boundaries with them, yet still loving the difficult child and trying hard to build a relationship on what good there is in him/her....Just thinking "out loud".

 

[TerryJ2]

In Casey's mind, Witz, she was forced: I agree with-this: "One factor is I think Casey realized that soon Caylee would soon be getting to an age where she would be a lot more verbal in being able to say where she was and what was going on and that was going to put a damper on Casey's party life."
Makes my stomach turn.

 

[Malika]

It seems likely, doesn't it, that Casey has convinced herself of her own lies - a kind of super-level of denial. My own sense of this is that her family is much more complicated than appears at face value and that her parents are involved to some degree in this denial. The father in the jail tape is almost too good to be true. As if he is playing to the camera or the camera of his own self-image...It is unreal, something inauthentic about it. It wouldn't surprise if there were many hidden secrets in this family.
Speculation, speculation, speculation...

 

[DDD]

Klmno, GFGmom and I have only had two fights in 47 years. I'm not a ranting person. We have a workable relationship but to save my own sanity I had to back WAY off. Other than those two occasions I have never berated her. As a child the only problems she caused were ADHD problems. Once she was a legal adult (and particularly after she moved into an apartment of her own before unplanned difficult child's birth) her decisions were impulsive and often inappropriate. Regarding the chldren I gave as much support as I could for difficult child but I blew a fuse when I discovered she had brought a newly released felon to live in the home that we bought for her and her sons and left him (unbeknowst to us) as the caretaker for little difficult child. From that union came her difficult child daughter whom I see maybe ten times a year because I knew it would be like getting run over by a freight train if I even babysat once. She is a very cute little girl who is more dysfunctional than you can imagine. Truly it is very sad. My other rant was when I discovered she had claimed easy child/difficult child and difficult child as her dependents to IRS and my 1040 was rejected. She got a huge refund and we lost thousands of dollars that could not be recovered. We needed it.

So, in answer to your question we have a working relationship for the sake of the children but not a loving relationshp. It is very sad for all of us but that's the way it is. She's my daughter and I love her but I will never trust her judgement. DDD

 

[klmno]

DDD, I don't blame you at all for getting upset and being furious over those incidents- any competent parent would be. I am just grasping at straws, I guess, to try to work things out with my son to some extent, while still not wanting to enable him, so we don't end up with a life-long situation like you have with your daughter and like I have with my mother. That thought pains me to no end. But I know, just like with your daughter, we can only do so much and it takes both parties making an effort for any relationship to improve. Sigh.

I guess I've gotten Occupational Therapist (OT)- sorry. Maybe the point is that I'm not so sure Cindy could have done much more unless there were signs that Caylee was being neglected or abused and she was in denial about it. I do think that part of the reason everyone- friends and family alike- are claiming that Casey was a very good mother by all they saw is because it eases their conscious and keeps them off the hot seat about not reporting any signs of maltreatment.

There's a lot of food for thought in this court case. I'll read a book someday - I'm interested in learning the facts that never come out in court- like what all those felonies were for and if it was Cindy that had reported Casey as a juvenile or adult for some thefts of money from family and that is how she got a couple of previous arrests.

 

[DDD]

You can be a good Mother and make poor choices separate from the childcare issues. Problem is when they collide. GFGmom always appropriately fed, bathed, played with, got medical care for, dressed appropriately and never yelled at or hit easy child/difficult child. He loved the time he had with her. When she had him he was properly in his carseat, was almost always brought home prior to bedtime. There was alot of laughter and young fun experiences. They are bonded. on the other hand...he never knew exactly when she would be with him. That caused some anxiety but since we were always there he didn't suffer trauma because it was our home where the four of us lived. Same, safe environment. Later in life, however, he began to realize as a young teen that there were almost no rules when he visited her. His life changed then because with-o structure he followed impulse...just like Mom. I'm guessing that Cindy & George decided to up the heat on Casey to "get a job" "take care of her daughter" and "grow up". Casey wasn't able to do that and faked it to avoid the flack. I'm not faulting them if they took that stand. It's a strange family dynamic even if there isn't alot of dysfunction. DDD

 

[Malika]

I think 3D is absolutely right - one can be an affectionate, reasonably competent mother in terms of the practical stuff and still be seriously wanting in terms of true parenting. Lord knows, it's hard enough a job... I never thought the photos of Casey hugging her daughter or laughing with her in any way disproved the notion that she could also have been severely neglecting her.

 

[HaoZi]

I'm sure all of us have seen families that look wonderful out in public, always happy together in their photos, etc. Then years later you find out they were miserable, hadn't slept together for years, etc. Just a good public face. Photos and videos aren't everything.

 

[klmno]

True- my mother comes to mind. So do two people from my k-12 schools. One principal turned out to be a cleptomaniac and one teacher turned out to be an exhibitionist. Both were busted red-handed (so to speak ) and it hit the newspaper- that's how everyone found out.

 

[DammitJanet]

DDD...you are so right about the parent stuff you just posted. If you saw Cory out and about with Keyana you would think they had the best relationship in the world...and they do...but he isnt the primary caretaker...he is just the playmate. He is fun. Now if you had seen my boys when they were her age, they may have been a bit more raggedy but I was there 24/7 and so was their father keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table. We didnt have grandparents to live with or to help buy us things. We looked poor and we lived poor but we raised our own kids and we didnt kill them.

 

[Malika]

The whole Anthony family seem to specialise in mixed messages, in showing widely disparate public and private faces... The case has caught my interest and I have watched quite a lot of the material available to the public; in an early police interview, George sounds highly critical and suspicious of his daughter. His eyes seem wide open as far as she is concerned. But then the image he presents in the tapes of the jail visits to her is so very different that it truly does seem schizophrenic... The same is true of the brother and the mother... What does this mean? I don't really know other than that the whole family dynamic seems skewed, not just Casey.

 

[susiestar]

I think we all have good points. Most family dynamics are very complicated simply because so many different people, situations and emotions are involved. No one is a saint by any means. I don't thing the dad could have done much more or that he knew she was dead. I see his calmness and think that he learned a long time before that to get any info out of Casey about anything he had to be super calm, never ever seem to imply that anything was her fault and always phrase things with the utmost delicacy. in my opinion his years as a cop helped with this. One of the experts went into his expressions and microexpressions as she said why she believed him. You see NONE of those things in Casey unless the topic is how she is a victim and how she was hurt by whomever "took" the child.

 

[Malika]

Casey is indeed a complete enigma

 

[Malika]

I have a translation project this week so unfortunately cannot devote time to watching the trial on the internet as I have been doing... I have to say it is intriguing, the detailed scientific evidence, etc. But I am haunted somehow by sadness and perplexity as I watch this young woman who sits with an apparently cold, indifferent expression all day long. Can she really have killed her own child in cold blood? It seems barely credible. And although I know this will be misunderstood, while I do obviously like everyone else revile what she (allegedly, probably) did, I do feel a kind of compassion for her. Certainly no-one could envy her her life or her position.

 

[DDD]

Dog hit evidence (if accurate, and I tend to think so) really confuses the possible scenarios. The dogs hit on three spots in the backyard. Commentaries last night included "but they didn't hit on the pool so much for the drowning theory". Well...an expert in decomposition stated the following. If she was in the pool and pulled out within a day there would be no evidence at the pool. "The decomposition process does not begin for two days or so depending upon the heat conditions etc.."

So last night I kept wondering where did the three yard hits come from? If the little girl drown or if she was chloroformed on x day, certainly her body couldn't have been left in the yard for a day or two. The grandparents and neighbors would certainly have noticed that. Or, is it possible, that she was accidentally (I don't believe on purpose) drugged and left in the car for a couple of days and then the perpetrator carried her remains to the back yard thinking she could be buried at home??

That's the only way I can imagine it happening if the dogs are right. but that is unbelievably sad to even think about. The perpetrator messed up and the child died. Fear of repercussions from the police and the parents drove the motivation to hide the body. Then after two or three days it becomes obvious that the body has to be buried and the partially decomposed body is taken to the backyard where she always played and "near to family". Then...that turns out to be impossible so the body goes back into the trunk and an alternate site is chosen that is close to home in a spot that is familiar to the perpetrator and where she had previous buried her pet (ferrett?) with a happy sticker on his mouth?? Eh Gods. I wonder if we will ever know and, more so, I wonder if the Anthony family will ever be able to get past the horror of it all. DDD