Copa, coming back to something you wrote:
From my experience there is a degree of psychosis just like there is a degree of so many other things, depression, optimism and such. Add to it how someone you know does not think straight but can seem perfectly lucid with other people who have not had long term or intimate connections with them then things get really dicey. In my son's case, he knows how to act respectfully and considerate with people in general, but not with anyone who has expectations of him.
He also seems to have acquired the ability of pulling on helpful people's heartstrings, like I've said before. I don't like to say my son is manipulative, because I don't think he purposely sets out to gain from others but I do think he really resonates with that victim roll. Mainly because he see's it as solving his problems for him, takes away his basic guilt, but really doesn't get him in an easy spot But if it worked forever it would let him stay put as he is forever, except it won't.
I've spent many a day, way before things went really sideways, with family therapists that worked with my son and myself. But once my son turned 16 it became ~ one hour a week, got a plan, okay whew, let's to this. Only to have it blown apart by my son by the next week. And then okay, got a plan again, ....wash, rinse, repeat.
My son was taking his medications, supervised by me back then. But afterwards I found out he was also smoking "bath salts" a synthetic pot which not only cancelled out his anti-psychotic and mood stabilizing medications but also put him on major tilt. The psychologist never recognized that anything was actually going on no matter how many times I told him thing seemed to be really off.
So three points:
1. I was called "cruel" by a friend of mine's mother one time when I sent my son to his room when he was acting out during a neighborhood birthday party for him when he was young. I knew he was testing if he could get away with acting like a jerk because it was his birthday. He learned he could not, he quietly and quickly got himself back in control by apologizing and was back with everyone after an hour. I know if I had let that continue it would have been a nightmare for the rest of the day, and many other days. Also, he was medicated for his bipolar disorder and not into drugs at that time, he was younger.
2. Psychologists only get part of the picture and only for a small slice of time, from anyone they see, and they should know that. I feel very strongly that any psychologist who calls a concerned, involved parent "cruel", for any reason, needs to address their own unaddressed issues. They are supposed to be in therapy, ongoing, for exactly this reason. People don't go into the therapy business for no reason, they do it because of their own drive to solve their past experiences.
3. My son's father also had Bipolar disorder. There was a time when he took some drug while he was also heavily into drinking and smoking pot where is subsequently became anyone's description of totally psychotic. He thought his own mother was the devil and that he was supposed to kill her. Luckily back then the insurance companies didn't "protect the rights of mentally ill" so they couldn't refuse liability as in long term help, as they do today. He was loaded into a car by his brother and cousins and was admitted until he was actually stable on medication, a two month admittance. The bottom line here is my son's father told me he "knew" he was not acting right, he knew he was confused and off balance but knew the problem was him. He's told me a number of times from his discussions with my son that he was sure my son knew he had something to deal with, and it had nothing to do with me or anyone else. He told me there were a few times he was not as bad as when the incident happened when he went to the hospital for 2 months when he also knew he had to do something for himself. I know for sure of all things my son's father was not stupid. A real pain in the butt for the most part, selfish and so on. But if he said he knew something about someone else he certainly knew it, because his focus was not typically on anyone else but himself.
So trying to put this together as I try to do, if my son's father is to be believed, which I do ~ your son like mine knows something is off with him. He probably doesn't meet the DSM diagnosis of psychotic but has strong traits in some areas. He is the guy and the only guy who can accept help for himself. But he will take you down to unsuccessfully try to save himself if allowed to when he's at his worst. He loves you but can't see past his own issues to regard you as anything but a means to an end at this point. It's sickening to realize this, unacceptable to us. As I see it we have no choice but to stand back and hope and pray others, who most likely have been there, step in to give them the right guidance they need. A guidance we would give but are not capable of because we are the mom's.
My current rambling thoughts are going like ~ As young boys they were the light of our lives, our loves, the absolute amazing boys they were. But a man cannot truly be the light of their mom's lives and still be a man. That's what I'm thinking. They can be men we are proud of. We can be proud of them, with all of their challenges, for making it this far in life and anything extra is a bonus considering our sons as they are. For them, they can stand up to their own lives, whatever they choose them to be. We, on the other hand, can only pray they remember the lives they have come from are etched enough into them where they use those parts which serve them for a more fulfilled life as they choose their future paths, for a best life for themselves, whatever that path means to them. Yeah, a rambling, a rambling in the chaos but I'm looking for a direction, not for my son much, his direction is up to him, guess an acceptance no matter where he lands from one moment, day, month, yeah, whatever, maybe a pipe dream.
This has been the single most difficult thing for me with my son. The mega catch-22. My mother guilt of what could I have done differently, what should I have said differently, here there and everywhere has run second place to trying to figure out what my son can or cannot do. Trying to figure out what he actually understands or does not of reality.
From my experience there is a degree of psychosis just like there is a degree of so many other things, depression, optimism and such. Add to it how someone you know does not think straight but can seem perfectly lucid with other people who have not had long term or intimate connections with them then things get really dicey. In my son's case, he knows how to act respectfully and considerate with people in general, but not with anyone who has expectations of him.
He also seems to have acquired the ability of pulling on helpful people's heartstrings, like I've said before. I don't like to say my son is manipulative, because I don't think he purposely sets out to gain from others but I do think he really resonates with that victim roll. Mainly because he see's it as solving his problems for him, takes away his basic guilt, but really doesn't get him in an easy spot But if it worked forever it would let him stay put as he is forever, except it won't.
I've spent many a day, way before things went really sideways, with family therapists that worked with my son and myself. But once my son turned 16 it became ~ one hour a week, got a plan, okay whew, let's to this. Only to have it blown apart by my son by the next week. And then okay, got a plan again, ....wash, rinse, repeat.
My son was taking his medications, supervised by me back then. But afterwards I found out he was also smoking "bath salts" a synthetic pot which not only cancelled out his anti-psychotic and mood stabilizing medications but also put him on major tilt. The psychologist never recognized that anything was actually going on no matter how many times I told him thing seemed to be really off.
So three points:
1. I was called "cruel" by a friend of mine's mother one time when I sent my son to his room when he was acting out during a neighborhood birthday party for him when he was young. I knew he was testing if he could get away with acting like a jerk because it was his birthday. He learned he could not, he quietly and quickly got himself back in control by apologizing and was back with everyone after an hour. I know if I had let that continue it would have been a nightmare for the rest of the day, and many other days. Also, he was medicated for his bipolar disorder and not into drugs at that time, he was younger.
2. Psychologists only get part of the picture and only for a small slice of time, from anyone they see, and they should know that. I feel very strongly that any psychologist who calls a concerned, involved parent "cruel", for any reason, needs to address their own unaddressed issues. They are supposed to be in therapy, ongoing, for exactly this reason. People don't go into the therapy business for no reason, they do it because of their own drive to solve their past experiences.
3. My son's father also had Bipolar disorder. There was a time when he took some drug while he was also heavily into drinking and smoking pot where is subsequently became anyone's description of totally psychotic. He thought his own mother was the devil and that he was supposed to kill her. Luckily back then the insurance companies didn't "protect the rights of mentally ill" so they couldn't refuse liability as in long term help, as they do today. He was loaded into a car by his brother and cousins and was admitted until he was actually stable on medication, a two month admittance. The bottom line here is my son's father told me he "knew" he was not acting right, he knew he was confused and off balance but knew the problem was him. He's told me a number of times from his discussions with my son that he was sure my son knew he had something to deal with, and it had nothing to do with me or anyone else. He told me there were a few times he was not as bad as when the incident happened when he went to the hospital for 2 months when he also knew he had to do something for himself. I know for sure of all things my son's father was not stupid. A real pain in the butt for the most part, selfish and so on. But if he said he knew something about someone else he certainly knew it, because his focus was not typically on anyone else but himself.
So trying to put this together as I try to do, if my son's father is to be believed, which I do ~ your son like mine knows something is off with him. He probably doesn't meet the DSM diagnosis of psychotic but has strong traits in some areas. He is the guy and the only guy who can accept help for himself. But he will take you down to unsuccessfully try to save himself if allowed to when he's at his worst. He loves you but can't see past his own issues to regard you as anything but a means to an end at this point. It's sickening to realize this, unacceptable to us. As I see it we have no choice but to stand back and hope and pray others, who most likely have been there, step in to give them the right guidance they need. A guidance we would give but are not capable of because we are the mom's.
My current rambling thoughts are going like ~ As young boys they were the light of our lives, our loves, the absolute amazing boys they were. But a man cannot truly be the light of their mom's lives and still be a man. That's what I'm thinking. They can be men we are proud of. We can be proud of them, with all of their challenges, for making it this far in life and anything extra is a bonus considering our sons as they are. For them, they can stand up to their own lives, whatever they choose them to be. We, on the other hand, can only pray they remember the lives they have come from are etched enough into them where they use those parts which serve them for a more fulfilled life as they choose their future paths, for a best life for themselves, whatever that path means to them. Yeah, a rambling, a rambling in the chaos but I'm looking for a direction, not for my son much, his direction is up to him, guess an acceptance no matter where he lands from one moment, day, month, yeah, whatever, maybe a pipe dream.
