Dazed and Confused Thanks Giving

[Littleboylost]

SRL
I hear you and this is something I too truly struggle with.
I am learning how to move forward but often it is 3 steps forward and a backslide.
I am feeling better today it is so helpful to come to the forum and find support for this predicament we all find ourselves in.
I do like to hear from the long standing members of the group that have successful past difficult children.
When one describes codependency as a sacrifice of oneself for very little in return ...this is as parents what we do naturally.

I honestly believe that is why it is so very difficult for us to let go and let the AC or D.C. Find there own way. We become so involved with rearing and caring for our children seldom do we put ourselves first. And abandoning them at a time of difficulty and crisis seems so wrong in our hearts, even though we know it is what we need to do to survive; and give them a chance to survive.

I need to find a way to focus on me and get me feeling better. I must let go and let my D.C. Path be of his own making. I have to get over how I saw his life and how it really is.

 

[Copabanana]

thank you for a great thread lbl.

srtl. i do the same thing. go to the same place.

i fall into this dichomous mindset: either the feeling of him victorious (trampling me) or -- blaming him. and i'm out of here. or falling on my sword in self-sacrifice.

m is always the one to pull me back. to dialog and compassion for my son and with that a centering in myself, self-forgiveness. reminding me to stay present with hope and responsibility. and i do. at least for a few minutes as long as i can hold the center.

who said this? i think sam. i 'm not sure.

he is not striving to wreck his life. nor is it his goal to torture you.

i was reading the reviews of a book which is a new translation of the psalms by betty bracha stone. their rendering into language of unity in the self, with the other and g-d.

i think this is what i struggle with. how to deal with horror, without recoil. to stay connected to myself and my beloved. our beloveds who are lost. who have lost themselves.

 

[Sam3]

And in the spirit of the many brave raw admissions people have been posting recently ...

I realize that at the end of the day, I want him to choose us again. He is lost to himself right now but also to us. Seeing and hearing him through the FOG feels like at least some connection, and it's scary to let go of that bit.

But I have to realize we are hanging on to a shell. He has to find and choose himself to choose to be part of our family again in a meaningful way.

I hope I am not a fraud when I say I would be at peace knowing he was happier and healthier, even if it is without us. But I know I dread not being a part of his life.

 

[Copabanana]

i believe my own son is finding his way but that it is incremental. they are inundated in themselves with screaming that overwhelms them.

the voice of "right" is like a flickering candle in the wind. i believe our sons want to come home. but they do not yet know where home is. in themselves.

 

[pasajes4]

I do not hear from my oldest son except for the weekly text telling me about his various projects and updates on his family. I am at peace with this. He is living his life. He works, raises his daughter, and is n a stable loving relationship. It was not always this way. He exited our lives to make one for himself. He has found himself and is very involved in his community and with his So's family. He is happy. That is all I want for any of my children.

 

[Doglady]

I would prefer to not talk to my daughter right now. I so understand how you feel. I have the same thoughts periodically. Terminal. Some sense of finality. My therapist told me that she may at some point ruin/kill any love I have for her with all of this. It is hard to have love some days, let alone detach with it... thinking of you LBL.

 

[Sam3]

... My therapist told me that she may at some point ruin/kill any love I have for her with all of this. . .

That feels true. It seems like detaching happens most naturally when the heart knows it is at its limit. If you stick around for more madness and abuse, there won't be anything left but the tragic sense of loss.

 

[Copabanana]

i believe the love never dies but it is defended against. rightly.

 

[RN0441]

I am catching up on this thread. I agree with all of us/you.

I was talking to a friend at lunch today about how much of our lives are really pre-determined.

For instance, if I did not go to this place at this time on this day would I have met my husband? Or was that really never an option because if I did not go to that place on that date and time, that would mean that I would have met him someplace else on that day and time.

I think that I find some peace in the fact that maybe more of our lives are pre-determined than we think they are. Maybe our paths and the paths of our Difficult Child (ren) are already chosen and all the fret and worry that we experience is really fruitless because what will be will be.

I think that is something to ponder.

 

[Littleboylost]

And I have pur on my other post. Son now had 10 days to be out. Trying hard to stay busy and stay out of my own head. My head and my heart are having a MMA worthy battle.

 

[pasajes4]

We always hope that it does not come to this. Does he believe that your serious? Will your husband back you up?

 

[Littleboylost]

Pasa Husband is behind me 100%. I don't know what goes through my sons head any more. He is off partying somewhere because it's the weekend. Text me on a friends phone saying his is broken and can I fix it.....sure let me get right on that.

His support workers can manage him now. They tried to guilt us into backing down. Not this time sorry he knew the consequences and has had enough opportunity.

 

[Littleboylost]

And I have pur on my other post. Son now had 10 days to be out. Trying hard to stay busy and stay out of my own head. My head and my heart are having a MMA worthy battle.

Put not pur phone is small typos uff.

 

[BusynMember]

Remember...no guarantees, but I made our daughter leave and shortly after she decided to quit meth and cocaine. She did it without rehab.
Addicts dont get better when we are too nice. It isnt like any other illness. The more we nurture, understand and pity, the worse they tend to do, plus they tend to steal, cuss at us, lie...do criminal stuff under our roof. Its easier if we make it easier. To quit they have to hate being an addict...in my opinion its msndatory to make addiction as uncomfortable for them as possible.
My daughter was nineteen. I believe the earlier we make it hard for them, the betterit is. It is easier to undo something if they have been at it a shorter time. Somebody at this for five years is in my opinion more able to learn how to function sober than one who is 30 and hasbeen at this for fifteen years. Obviously I feel you are helping your son, as he is still young. Nothing good is happening the way things are.

Stay strong.

 

[Albatross]

And I have pur on my other post. Son now had 10 days to be out. Trying hard to stay busy and stay out of my own head. My head and my heart are having a MMA worthy battle.

I have carried a post by Leafy in my purse for years. I wanted to find it on the forum for you. It took me awhile! I was once again struck by HOW LONG we've been dealing with son's issues, and how many times I've come here to cry and to seek advice. We all know how difficult it is to get to the point you and hubs are now, and how agonizing it is to stay there. The drive to give them JUST ONE MORE CHANCE is so overwhelming. We feel like we are abandoning our very hope and faith; at least I did. During my times of doubt about whether to "do" for son the things he should be doing for himself, I would pull Leafy's post out and read it. I believe you and hubs are doing the right thing, that this is how you give your son his chance.

It is so difficult to read or hear the hatefulness that comes from the heart of addiction and/or the mental issues that coincide. Hurtful things that wrench our hearts. It is the illness driving the bus. That reality doesn't make it any easier.
The morning, a new day, a yearning for a fresh start, yet those many emotions attached to facing this just linger and pervade our thoughts, even at first light. It is when I must repeat that mantra,
"They are out there finding their way." Then I had to add, "In their own way."

They are adults, and no matter what we do or say, they will still do it their own way, in their own time.

What kind of mother would ignore their son, daughter, who has so many problems?

The kind of mother who has loved and still loves their adult child completely with heart and soul.

The kind of mother who has tried so many times to help to the detriment of herself and her home, her own peace and safety at stake.

The kind of mother who after so many countless times and heart wrenching drama filled, chaotic and downright dangerous episodes realized the only only solution is to step back and set her adult child on his/her way.

The kind of mothers that realize that no matter what we do or say, they will do it their own way.

That is strength Albie.
That is self respect.
That is a mother who loves her child enough to be able to say NO!
Love does say no.
No!
Disrespect, lying, theft, destruction of home, property, my heart, is unacceptable.

We ignore our ill/addicted adult children because their actions around us are reprehensible.
We are forced by their choices to change our way of thinking, of doing, of being.
Nothing changes, if nothing changes.
When they do not change, we must.

Rather the question,
"What kind of mother allows her adult child to abuse, use and mistreat her? To disrespect himself and his own mother, in her home?


No mas, NO MORE!
Unacceptable.
We are the first people they look to.
The first they come to.
When we say no more, they have to take a better look at themselves.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Littleboylost]

I would quote what has been important here but it all is. I am buoyed by so much strength from each of you.

Albie this is the second quote I have received from Leafy. I am so very greatful. I know this is one of the only places I feel sane at the moment. Yes it is tough and yes Love does say no.

RN
I still have the quote you sent me. I have no idea what I would do without support from all of you.

SWOT
There are no guarantees but one. I guarantee you if this son of mine stays at home nothing will change.

NO MAS!

Susie
WTF is right and how weak we become when people shame us, and the system fails us.

NO MAS!

 

[Copabanana]

lbl. your son sounds very capable. but self-serving, selfish and manipulative,at this point of his life.

our job as parents now is to be moral authorities. to me that means to not permit my son mistreat me or to mistreat himself with my help.

we know how much i struggle to not control the situation, or give him safe harbor for reasons that serve me, not him.

i doubt myself. that is to say , when he becomes homeless again, i believe i will bring him back to live in the other house, the one he destroyed.

if i do this, when i do, it will in large part be self-serving.

i have learned that forcing my son to sink or swim does not help. but people do have to learn to accept the bed they make. until they learn the lessons they ignore.

life has to be a conversation. not imposing one's will and rubbing faces in dirt. we see how that worked out for harvey weinstein.

by letting your son break agreements, trash you by his behavior and thumb his nose at your rules and well-being is to help perpetuate that very behavior. you have always known that.

you have to justify yourself to nobody. you are his parents. he is an adult. he is bullying you. you would not tolerate it when he was 10. you will not now.

end of story.

this is not the last word. he will have a chance to respond. when the reality of his real life hits him.

in my mind what you propose is good parenting.

i have a lot of hope for him. if he has to leave. he needs to experience the kind of bed he gets when he acts as he does.

 

[Littleboylost]

lbl. your son sounds very capable. but self-serving, selfish and manipulative,at this point of his life.

our job as parents now is to be moral authorities. to me that means to not permit my son mistreat me or to mistreat himself with my help.

we know how much i struggle to not control the situation, or give him safe harbor for reasons that serve me, not him.

i doubt myself. that is to say , when he becomes homeless again, i believe i will bring him back to live in the other house, the one he destroyed.

if i do this, when i do, it will in large part be self-serving.

i have learned that forcing my son to sink or swim does not help. but people do have to learn to accept the bed they make. until they learn the lessons they ignore.

life has to be a conversation. not imposing one's will and rubbing faces in dirt. we see how that worked out for harvey weinstein.

by letting your son break agreements, trash you by his behavior and thumb his nose at your rules and well-being is to help perpetuate that very behavior. you have always known that. you have to justify yourself to nobody. you are his parents. he is an adult. he is bullying you. you would not tolerate it when he was 10. you will not now.

end of story.

this is not the last word. he will have a chance to respond. when the reality of his real life hits him.

in my mind what you propose is good parenting.

i have a lot of hope for him. if he has to leave. he needs to experience the kind of bed he gets when he acts as he does.

Very well said Copa. It is not easy and I know oh how I know you know that. Ian so grateful for the support I have found here.

 

[New Leaf]

It has been a long while since I have written here.
I have been working hard at shifting my focus and trying to rediscover (reinvent?) myself, which caused a hiatus from posting.
I returned from my walk the other morning deep in thought and a bit troubled by recent events with Tornado. I logged on to see an alert to this post.
It was the quote that triggered the alert, Albie, a reminder to me, as I still wrestle with my heart, my thoughts and the winding road of dealing with this
You all have been such a support, a true lighthouse in calm and stormy times in my own struggle with what I see now as a sychronistic tailspin with two addicted adult children.
Like a moth to the flame, drawn by love and despair, burned over and again by the heartache of it all.
Dammit, as lost as they are in their drug world, I became lost myself.
These are our children, and we are catapulted smack dab into the desolation of their addiction.

This grief we deal with,
is rekindled with each twist and turn,
the blows just keep on
and on
and on.
Here we all are, holding each other's hearts and hands, trying to soften those blows.
LBL, that morning walk, I prayed and traveled the maze in my mind, seeking solace from my latest episode with Tornado. I was also grappling with thoughts of her approaching birthday, October 20. She will be 29.
I found myself spinning again, that moth to the flame feeling.......
Stop.
Breath.
Rethink.
If I could change one word in that old post Albie quoted, it would be ignore.
How can any mother ignore this?
I suppose at the time of writing it, I was at a point in the stages of grief, fed up, tired, angry.
I needed respite from the battle.
I was tired of feeling lost.
Probably in a "no contact" period, often imposed by my daughter as punishment.
What an odd world we are living in, dealing day in and out with the degradation of this
Ugh.
Today, I would say ignoring it is impossible, it is always In the back of my mind.
Recognition of that has helped me in the never ending road of recovery.
It is not because I am strong, it is because I am weak.

My two are con artists and I am their easy mark. They have a bag of tricks and I am no match.
I went through all the shoulda, woulda, coulda, over and again.

That isn't ignoring, that's bloody work.
I had to step back.
Like an outmatched boxer in the ring I had to bob and weave and step back.
The blows keep on coming.
Ignore them?
No way.
I have to continuously build my toolbox bigger than their bag of tricks.
I don't ignore my two and the choices they make.
Now, I try to look at it right in the face.
It has been ongoing for years.
They are drug addicts.
Addicts lie and steal.
Addicts harm their loved ones.
Swot, I used to think that was harsh to write here to hurting parents, but it is the reality of it.
Truth.
We all must do what we must do to deal with this
I think it was Cedar who wrote "lest we cannot look ourselves in the mirror"
You are right to give your son his wings to fly on his own.
It is not an easy thing either way, how I do feel for you and your aching heart.
Take the time you need to feel and find your way through this
Take extremely good care of yourself.
My hopes and prayers go out to all for strength and comfort.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Albatross]

Leafy, so wonderful to "see" you! I have wondered so many times how you are doing.