difficult child came over to talk

[Malika]

This is all very sad. A real choice would operate in circumstances in which someone had viable and practical support for keeping a child as well as for other course of action. I have seen women fall apart after abortion - no-one will tell them about that beforehand or want to know afterwards. Some women do seem to freely choose it and not suffer any fall-out afterwards - plenty more do not. I do not think the prognosis for your daughter is good, given that she at first wanted to keep the child, and then talked about adoption. This will not be a trivial experience for her, in all probability.
Such an illusion at play here... that abortion just solves the problem neatly for all concerned. The best thing your daughter could do, for her emotional and physical and mental health, would be to have the baby. I just hope the abortion will not set her on a path to complete self-destruction.
I have no agenda other than concern for the suffering I have seen after abortion. And it is not easy to say these things, knowing how unpopular they are - but I am concerned for your daughter and I following my own morality in saying them.

 

[BusynMember]

Nancy...she is making an adult decision. Big hugs to both of you...I know this will be very hard.

 

[Nancy]

This was not an easy decision, she had a lot of conflict in the fact that she is adopted. But it was a mature decision that noone coerced her into and I am proud that she is looking at the long term and not expecting to fill holes in her heart with a baby.

Malika I respect your personal beliefs and opinions but I don't think you have any idea what our situation is and what circumstances this baby would be born into. If you think abortion leaves a big impact on a woman I have news for you, adoption has already left the biggest impact on her that could ever be, and we have been dealing with those effects for many years now. And if you think her prognosis is not good with this decision you don't know our story because her prognosis has not been good for a very long time due to the circumstances of her birth. We are so thankful that we have been able to keep her as safe as we have this long. By all rights she should be in jail right now and have no chance at a life at all. I hope you never have to watch your child go down a path that leads to absolute destruction of body and mind. Like I said in my first post, this is a sensitive subject and one that I do not want to cause dissention here, but those of us living with this situation understand we are dealing with some of lifes toughest problems and they don't go away by wishing them away. When you have gone through the anquish we have these past twenty years, then we can sit down and talk about morality.

Nancy

 

[AnnieO]

Nancy, hugs... I did send you a PM, but I wanted you to know I was thinking about you and difficult child, all night.

 

[DDD]

Sending supportive thoughts your way. From family exprience I suggest that you keep prepared for a change of heart that often comes after the initial decision...especially with difficult child's. Yeah, I know, it's hard to always stay prepared for the worst but hope for the best. Hugs. daughter

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Malika, I am not trying to start a fight here, but you often seem to ruffle the feathers of a lot of people in this section. I am trying to figure out why you are constantly giving advice in this section. You have no clue what it is like to raise a teenager. Not a clue. In my opinion, you have nothing to offer in Parent Emeritus. This is so not the place for you to stand on your soapbox about your own personal beliefs.

I have never told anyone off here, and moderators, please feel free to remove the post if needed. But I have seriously had about all I can take from this poster.

Nancy, my husband has suffered enormous emotional problems from being adopted. For many, many years he was so down around the holidays that I could not enjoy them myself. Luckily, that is getting better now that we are older, but my goodness those times he was so low....

 

[Fran]

Nancy, I know it is gut wrenching but her abuse of her body and lack of ability to raise a baby is terrifying. Especially if the baby has problems due to drug and alcohol abuse in the first trimester. I would never judge someone lest I be judged. Right? I agree with you from watching the parents of adopted children, that adoption brings a whole host of problems.
She didn't make this decision lightly and after knowing you that you would never support something like abortion for convenience. You just wouldn't. difficult child is self destructive and self sabotaging. She has incredible tolerance for the low life and still seems to be at that level. Hopefully this will upset her enough that she will never get in this situation. I don't know one woman who has had an abortion who ever forgets it and they shouldn't. I'm a big believer that birth control is the best answer to avoid these difficult issues.
Your difficult child sure loves to be self righteous and indignant about doing the right thing until she goes off and comes to the same conclusions. It must be exhausting for you and husband.
Many hugs to your mom heart and many good thoughts that difficult child becomes very aware the price of her behavior has had on everyone. (although I'd love to give her a knock upside her head for not using birth control). Our difficult child's just make life so hard for themselves. Good luck and my thoughts will be with you on Friday.

 

[Nancy]

Thanks Fran, you hit it on so many levels. I thought I was doing good by getting her on birth control years ago. But I can't force her to use it. This time I am going to strongly encourage and fund the most reliable type there is. I do hope that she finally realizes the price her behavior has had on so many people. She is self destructive, she has told me that every time things are going well she self sabotages, a trait she recognizes but doesn't seem to know how to correct. And you are right, you know us, we would never support a decision that we didn't firmly believe was in the best interest of everyone involved.

Nancy

 

[CrazyinVA]

Malika, please remember that this is a place of support. Nancy has shared something very personal here, which took incredible courage and means she trusts us not to chastise her or her daughter for this decision. We owe it to her to honor that trust and to remember that this place is meant as a "soft place to land" while she and her daughter are going through this. This is obviously a hot-button issue, but it's important that personal beliefs and judgments be kept out of this discussion. Please, if you can't keep your postings to words of support, I must request that you keep your moral opinions and judgments to yourself. This is not the place for them.

I've been through two unplanned pregnancies with my Youngest. Well actually, she's admitted the second one was "on purpose," which was even more upsetting given the circumstances. The situations are extremely complicated when it comes to difficult children. If you haven't raised a girl to adolescence, and lived the fear of this or God forbid the reality of a pregnancy and difficult child motherhood while mentally unstable, it's probably quite difficult to comperehend, in my opinion.

Hugs, Nancy.

 

[toughlovin]

Nancy and all,

The reality is that unplanned pregnancy is very difficult and all the options can be gut wrenching, life changing, and very hard to deal with. There is no one right or wrong answer to this dilemma. I think what is important here is that your difficult child made this decision herself, was not coerced or pressured in any direction. She is the one who has to live with whatever decision she makes and so it is best if she is the one who makes it.

And yes adoption has its own difficulites both for birthmothers, and for the adoptees. I am thankful I got the chance to adopt my two kids... one one kid seems to have dealt with adoption issues just fine, and for my difficult child I think adoption is one big part of the puzzle that is him.

And raising a baby when someone is not ready can also lead to a whole host of pain for the child if they are not properly cared for, and for the parent who is not ready.

And yes of course there is a lot of pain around abortion as well...

There is no easy answer.

Nancy I am just so glad your daughter is talking to you about it AND that she is making her own decision. Once again you have my full and unreserved support in that.

And I also want to comment that I think it is easy for parents of younger children to think that as parents of older children we have some say in the decisons they make.... I think those of us in the trenches with kids who are young adults know from experience that just isn't true. I think that is one reason this separate forum is so important... becaues part of our journey is learning how to let go even if it means watching them fall in horrible ways.

TL

TL

 

[Mrs.McNear51]

Nancy-

I went down this road with SB in Feb. She made the decision on her own, I kept my input to myself. They gave her the abortion pill, which she took over the weekend, at my home. It was heartbreaking for both of us to say the least, but the best choice for her.

There are times when she gets weepy about it, but overall, she is at peace with herself. I pray all works out for your difficult child.

Blessings,

Julie

 

[DaisyFace]

Just ((((hugs))))

 

[BusynMember]

My daughter Jumper, who is amazingly well adjusted, all the same told me "Adoption itself is a special need. You are different and you think about it and feel like you were just thrown in the trash." This is in spite of knowing a lot about her birthmother, seeing pictures, and not having any mental health issues (odd for an adopted child). I agree with her. Adopted kids don't just forget they are adopted. Until they come to resolution, which in some cases means reunion, it is a big part of their lives. So giving a child up for adoption by an adopted kid who knows...that is probably a harder decision.

Grown children make decisions on their own anyway. It is our job, in my opinion, to support their decisions, especially the hard ones, not tell them what to do.

 

[pepperidge]

MWM, thanks for that reminder about adoption. Sometimes I think one of my kids doesn't have adoption issues, but I suspect he must be thinking what Jumper articulated.

And I'm finding i need to be careful in how I raise the whole birth control issue. I told my son the other day that he is now the same age as his bm was when she got pregnant. And asked him whether he felt like he was ready to be a dad. And told him that's how maybe his birthmother might have been feeling. But trying not at the same time to be critical of her lack of birth control and bringing a child into the world she couldn't care for --trying to talk about mistakes but not give my son the feeling that he was a mistake, if you know what I mean. And I wonder about her. She was on her way certainly to being a difficult child from what I understand, but after she placed my son for adoption she spiralled downwards into heavy heavy drug use.

I hope this pregnancy will help your daughter come to a deeper understanding of her own adoption, if nothing else. Hugs to you, Nancy. We are at the beginning stages of letting our child own his own struggle to become a responsible adult and it is so hard.

 

[Nancy]

I am overwhelmed by the support and so touched with all of the personal stories that you have shared with me. I do hope this helps difficult child come to a deeper understanding about her adoption and we have had some talks about how her bm may have felt and the whole sense of not being able to take care of yourself let along a child and how that is not a reflection on the child. She must have a lot of conflicting feelings going on right now, how she spent so many years hating us for adopting her and how she has come full circle and knows that we will never turn our back on her and will always support her in trying to do the right thing. It is a big deal that she feels comfortable coming to us for help and yet she knows we won't just bail her out.

She came over today to pick up her income tax return from last year to apply for aid. She had a job interview this morning at another animal hospital and is shadowing there tomorrow. I gave her something to take back to the sober house for her dinner and we had a good talk. She is working through her decision and not in self pity mode. She hasn't asked us for anything and seemed genuinely grateful and relaxed at home. She broke up with the jerk boyfriend last night, thank goodness.

Nancy

 

[AnnieO]

The break up is a good sign!

 

[Hound dog]

Nancy while I normally don't agree with abortion in general, that doesn't mean that in certain situations it is not the right course of action to take. Life teaches us that nothing is black and white.

You and difficult child have my support in what I'm sure was not an easy decision to make. That difficult child came to the decision this would be best after agonizing over it, shows she put much thought into her decision. It also shows a promise of maturity perhaps setting in. I hope this weighs heavily enough on her that she takes proper precautions to prevent further pregnancies until she's sober and stable enough to parent a child.

Some women do have a difficult time following the procedure, even when they know it's the best decision for them. My sister was unprepared for this and it sent her off the deep end for a while. Staff had not prepared her for such emotions. So I hope the staff do prepare difficult child for how the procedure might affect her.

Keeping difficult child in my prayers, and you too because I know how hard this has to be for you both.

(((hugs)))

 

[klmno]

Nancy, I know this has been very difficult for you and your family. I try to encourage carrying a baby once conceived and consider adoption if a person isn't capable or willing to be a good parent to the child, because I would never be able to condone abortion being used repetitively as a form of birth control. But more than that, I believe in a woman's right to make her own choices and I believe in considering the likelihood of the baby being born in good health and having a decent life if brought into this world. But even more importantly than that, it isn't my issue what your daughter chooses and you choose to support - I just wanted you to know that I don't blame you at all for supporting her decision and I hope she learns something from this and never gets pregnant again before she is ready, willing, capable, and in a position to be a good parent to the child.

 

[Nancy]

I hope she learns something from this and never gets pregnant again before she is ready, willing, capable, and in a position to be a good parent to the child.

klmno, this is what I hope and pray for and have for years. This has been a real fear of ours for years and one we did our best to avoid, but as you know it is an all too common occurence and the alternatives when you are dealing with drug/alcohol use and a host of other mental/behavioral issues are not good. In all honesty I don't think she should ever have kids because I don't believe she will ever be capable of being a good parent or putting anyone before herself. Living in a sober house, unemployed, no health insurance, no money to her name and one drink away from the streets. It is a tragic situation, one I wish her birthmother had considered. We love her unconditionally but have sadly realized love is not enough and our hearts break with every new crisis that she goes through,

Nancy

 

[klmno]

We love her unconditionally but have sadly realized love is not enough and our hearts break with every new crisis that she goes through,

I completely understand that. We just have to muddle thru these crisis, I guess, the best we can.