difficult child came over to talk

[jinger]

Nancy...This is Diane, formerly Penta...if you recall me and my girl. Your difficult child's heart wrenching journey reminds me so much of my adopted daughter, mother of my 22 year old granddaughter. She had A. at almost 18 and then became pregnant again a few years later. Her decision for an abortion was made by her, knowing she could barely care for one child, let alone two. A close friend and I went with her to the clinic and it was a sad day, but relief for all of us. After that, she tried to get herself together, but unfortunately died suddenly when she was 23, so I will never know if she would have made it or not as a true adult. Your daughter is alive and because of that, there is always hope. I know exactly what you mean about loving her unconditionally. Because of your love, she knows what life can be and may one day be able to find her way to a fulfilling adult life of her own.

 

[DDD]

Penta I have wondered about you for some time. It's good to have you back on the Board and I am so sorry that you had to face such pain with-o our family support. DDD

 

[Nancy]

Penta it's wonderful to see you and of course I remember you. Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you have had such tragedy in your life. You have always been so supportive and it means a lot to me.

Nancy

 

[svengandhi]

Nancy -

This was not an easy decision, but the fact that she made a considered and well-thought out choice is impressive.

Maybe this is the impetus she will need to keep on the path of sobriety. I know that after my abortion at 21 I was always uber careful with my birth control until I was ready (at 30) to be a parent. Although I have never regretted my decision to abort, I also knew that I did not want to have to do it again and that knowledge informed my actions throughout the remainder of my 20's.

I do agree that the decision to abort can be upsetting to some women (although most, if not all, of my friends have had at least one and none of us had any lingering emotional issues) but I believe that is more when a woman feels coerced into the procedure.

I really hope that this is a turning point for your daughter and your family.

Also, congrats on your easy child ...

 

[Malika]

Malika, please remember that this is a place of support. Nancy has shared something very personal here, which took incredible courage and means she trusts us not to chastise her or her daughter for this decision. We owe it to her to honor that trust and to remember that this place is meant as a "soft place to land" while she and her daughter are going through this. This is obviously a hot-button issue, but it's important that personal beliefs and judgments be kept out of this discussion. Please, if you can't keep your postings to words of support, I must request that you keep your moral opinions and judgments to yourself. This is not the place for them.

I fear your words are more incendiary and judgemental than mine were, CinVA. I am giving the support to Nancy's daughter that I believe is the greatest support - abortion can hurt women very profoundly and they are given little or no information about this beforehand. This would not be acceptable for any other medical procedure. I believe in informed consent.
It also took courage to say what I said - more, perhaps, because I know I will receive almost no support for it whereas Nancy will receive a lot - which is fine. I know women who have had abortions and seem not very affected by it - I know others who have devastated about it. And it seems we are not allowed to talk about that. Why?

 

[ThreeShadows]

Malika, I feel that we need to support Nancy's daughter in this very difficult situation. This thread is not the place to discuss the emotional harm felt by some women after they've had the procedure.

 

[Signorina]

Amen 3 Shadows

 

[DammitJanet]

Malika, I dont want to start an argument with you in Nancy's post but why do you even post or respond to threads in the PE forum? You have a 4 year old. This forum is for parents with kids over 18. I dont think the issues you are going through with J even compare to what we are going through with our adult difficult child's.

Now that said. Nancy, I hope this does effect your daughter in the same way it did me. My first pregnancy happened in the fall of 79. It was certainly not planned and it happened because birth control failed. It would have been a disaster for me to have had the baby for many reasons. My gyn was convinced something was in the water because 4 of my friends all ended up pregnant at the same time. Sad but true. We all got abortions too. It was the 70's and it was the era of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. I barely knew the father well and certainly not well enough to saddle us together for eternity. I had the procedure done on 1/4/1980. Yes, I remember the date. I didnt take it lightly or go into it not knowing what I was doing. 13 days later I turned 18.

I dont regret what I did. I know I did the right thing. I also dont think it should be a means of birth control or I would have had another one when I got pregnant with Billy in August of 1980. Instead I married his father. Maybe I should have done it twice. Who knows but I thought I was doing the right thing in marrying my ex but that turned out to be a disaster.

When I got pregnant with Cory, the doctor's begged me to abort him because of the risks of some medication that I had been on plus they had done xrays twice to me unshielded before I knew I was pregnant. The risk was great that he would be born with birth defects (and he was). His father and I just said we would deal with what we got.

I have had one abortion and one miscarriage with the follow up D&C. I do not regret my choices because they were mine to make. I am glad I had the right to make my choices. I really think my first pregnancy was probably a girl and she was given back to me as my first grandchild. Keyana.

 

[Nancy]

Janet thanks for sharing your story. In my heart I believe she will be OK. In all honesty I believe having the baby and placing it for adoption would have a far greater impact on her. She is completely unprepared both mentally and physically to give birth. She was out buying a pink gemstone cell phone cover two weeks ago instead of thinking about how she would buy baby food or diapers or even pay rent for a place to live. She went to a haunted house this past weekend, touted as the largest in the world and most terrifying. They have a moving circular floor and she was laughing about how she fell down at least 5 times. This is the third haunted house she's gone to, without regard to how fright would impact a fetus. She is eating junk food and smoking and has had no prenatal care at all. She relapsed for at least a week while pregnant and I don't know what she did in addition to drinking. She is not doing any of the things that would indicate she is prepared or even understands what it means to bring a baby into this world. She broke up with the boyfriend but already has a new beau, 12 years older than her.

Some veil their objections by talking about the negative impact it has on a woman. I believe they have no idea the negative impact adoption has on the woman, or on the child for that matter. Those of us who live with this do understand. Instead they really try to force their moral judgement on the person.

I would never ever advocate this as a means of birth control. This is a serious and very personal decision that must be made by the woman herself after she considers all of the options and consequences. I have seen no indication that difficult child is second guessing her decision, in fact she seems very relieved. She has said several times she has no idea why she thought she could have a baby. We will be there to help her work through her feelings just as we have been there for twenty years helping her make sense of her adoption and all the substance abuse, low self esteem, worthlessness, psychological and psychiatric disorders that her genes have unfortunately imprinted her with, and that I truly hope she decides never to pass on to another individual.

There is nothing anyone can say that will ever change our minds that this is the only option that makes sense for difficult child.

Thanks for everyone's support. I really hoped and prayed we would never be in this position, but in the back of our minds husband and I knew this was a very real possibility and we never waivered in what we knew would be best.

Nancy

 

[DammitJanet]

You know Nancy, after reading this last post of yours it brings something to my mind that I had forgotten because you said something about her genes.

I have told you before about my step-brother and how he has bipolar or I really think it is Major Depressive Disorder that also had some temporary psychotic episodes when he was a late teen. His bio dad is very bipolar 1. Well Chris, my step, decided from an early age that he would never have any biological kids of his own. In fact, it took him a long time to even get married. Two years ago he adopted the cutest little boy. He didnt want to pass on his fathers genes...and his. Now we all know we dont know what he is getting but he was willing to gamble that it was a better chance.

Just saying...who knows what could be in your dtr's future when she is in her 40's. Look at me and my step brother. LOL.

 

[Signorina]

Nancy, I don't know your daughter. But I had an "aha" moment about my own difficult child when I read your post. Your difficult child has made a decision. A real decision that she actually THOUGHT about. And it goes against the tide of "everyone thinks I should have the baby" IIRC (her work friends?) I think that's a fairly positive step.

My own difficult child hasn't made a true decision about ANYTHING for probably the past year. I don't know if that a symptom of OR the reason for his difficult child-ness. He seems content to go with the flow, take the path of least resistance that offers the most instant "feel good". Sinks to the lowest common denominator, doesn't challenge himself, doesn't look inward or long term, just thinks for/lives in the moment. And when things don't work out - he blames someone else. If it goes wrong it "wasn't his fault" simply because he never thought that far ahead. (or it is my fault for not stopping him or for not encouraging him *SCREAM*)

So, I just wanted to say - hey - she made a DECISION!!! And from here - that looks like a good thing.

 

[Nancy]

Signorina I just had an aha moment myself. difficult child told me last night she shared everything with her house AA group and they told her they were proud of her for making a decision. My difficult child is like yours, she just flies by the seat of her pants and lets what happens happen. She has the attitude like "oh well can't do anything about it" instead of brianstorming and trying to come up with solutions. And you are right, they don't think ahead, she never has, does not anticipate consequences or make any attempt at modifying her behavior in the future even knowing what those were in the past. She has a favorite saying about not having any regrets in life and she doesn't. I don't know of any well adjusted person who doesn't have regrets. It's called conscience, it is what seperates up from sociopaths. It's how we learn from our mistakes and make our lives better.

Nancy

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Nancy,

Just want you to know that my thoughts are with you and your daughter and I hope you feel our supporting arms.

Sharon

 

[rejectedmom]

Nancy, My thoughts and support are with you. Know that I will be there in spirit on Friday holding your hand as you go through this difficult time. I understand your thoughs on this issue because of my difficult child. Sending many hugs and healing thoughts for you your husband and your daughter. -RM

 

[JJJ]

(((Hugs)))

 

[tiredmommy]

Nancy~ I'm sending supportive hugs your way for Friday. Remember that we love you and difficult child... no matter what.

 

[Kathy813]

Nancy,

I've heard the same thing from my difficult child . . . she has no regrets about anything that has happened. Seriously? When I point out some things that any normal person would regret, her answer is "Well, what's the point . . . I can't change it now." So she just goes on her merry way without learning any life lessons.

~Kathy

 

[ThreeShadows]

All our love and support for you and your daughter this coming Friday. My spirit will be in the room with your difficult child. I had an illegal abortion in 1969. The hardest part was hearing them flush it down the toilet. The emotional pain was excruciating. I have no regrets about my decision to terminate. I would have made a horrible, immature young mother. It would have been all about what I needed from the child, not what she needed from me. My mother would have devoured her alive, the way she devoured me. I am now infertile, perhaps because of the abortion, perhaps not. I have no regrets. I'm so grateful that it is now legal in this country. We need to put these incipient human beings' needs before our own. This was particularly painful because I was raised catholic. Then my grandmother told me how many women lined up around the block, waiting for an abortion during the Great Depression. She said there were flimsy sheets separating the beds, doctors going from woman to woman. I am so happy that your daughter will avoid the pain of a production line. God bless your family.

 

[Nomad]

Three Shadows...what powerful stories. Thank you for sharing them with us.

Nancy....This comment "I believe they have no idea the negative impact adoption has on the woman, or on the child for that matter. Those of us who live with this do understand..." WOW!!!!

Special thougths for you and your family...especially this Friday.

Perhaps we are fortunate in that once in awhile our difficult child seems to have some (very limited) regrets. However, it is a rare thing. Her general attitude is that she lives life with no regrets. She has told me many times that she is happy and it is hard for me to wrap my head around this when she calls us with almost daily drama/trauma...and sometimes it is rather EXTREME! In addition... like what has also been mentioned here...no cause and effect reasoning and that is just scary...PERIOD. She pretty much always lives life on the edge. Once in a blue moon after many, many, and I do mean MANY repeats of the same mistake she may (and I do mean MAY) learn a life lesson (somewhat). SIGH.

 

[DammitJanet]

I do want to say that many young people do get it at about 24 to 25. That old frontal lobe thing kicking in.