Elder Care & childrens care...guilt...choices...obligations..love..

[BusynMember]

Dysfunctional families routinely pit one person against the other, sometimes changing it up a bit, but if you are in a dysfunctional family you usually feel more upset than love. The reason is, those families are not about love. They are about control.

My sister and I were not competitive. My mom just didn't want us to be close for whatever reason. Like her mother before her, I think she had the divide and conquer mentality.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

and when I can say no and stick to it.

That is your beginning place.

There are people in the world who honestly do say no and mean it. Those are the people who, when they say yes, honestly mean that, too.

And that is how we learn the flavor of our own integrity. All at once, we find ourselves saying exactly what we mean. There will be some false starts along the way, but you are worth it.

Your children are worth it.

:O)

Cedar

It's a wonderful feeling to be part of your process, Confused. You are coming to see the patterns of abuse in your family, and you are beginning to question the really messed up things that kept the dysfunction working.

You are going to be just fine!

I am happy for you, and proud of you for staying calm and telling your family what you will do.

That is so good.

Great job.

Woot! Woot!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Dysfunctional families routinely pit one person against the other, sometimes changing it up a bit, but if you are in a dysfunctional family you usually feel more upset than love. The reason is, those families are not about love. They are about control.

"The reason is those families are not about love. They are about control."

Very nice, MWM.

I hear that, loud and clear.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

I see it this way.

They are NOT capable of unconditional love, which is what we think of when he think "family."

If you do what the Family Controller says (that is whoever basically bosses everyone around; sometimes there are two of them), then they treat you as if you are in their favor. I hesitate to call it love, but at least you are playing your designated role in the family so you are allowed to be a part of the group.

If you dare to defy The Controller(s) and tell them that you no longer accept your designated role anymore and that you want to be in control of your own life, well, it can go so far as to be ostracized or tossed out of the fold. At the very least, pressure, guilt, and abuse is heaped on you for defying what the group has come to expect you to do.

It sounds scary and awful for those still brainwashed as I was that you MUST do for your family, but is it a bad thing to be ostracized from this sort of group?

We are normally pack animals and like to be part of a group, and if we are used to abusive groups in which we are seen in an inferior or abused role, we can still be afraid to leave it. But we must if we want any sort of life at all. Or if we don't want to pass this horror show onto our children. If that is all they see, they tend to copy the patterns of their youth, as so many of us did in our first (lol) marriages.

A child brought up around abuse knows nothing else unless he flees and spreads his wings and learns. That may mean they take off from us too, if they think we are part of the problem.

It is hard to change how we think about our relatives. Beaver Cleaver and The Brady Bunch taught us "family above all else." They never did go into how it is for children who don't have kind, understanding, fair and loving parents like the Cleavers or the Bradys. So we feel that we have to try to fit our families into those roles, even if they are nothing like that.

"Honor thy Mother and Father."

This doesn't help either. in my opinion we honor people who deserve our honor and respect.

I had a horrible nightmare about my mother last night.

She has been dead now for over ten years yet every dream I have about her is still a nightmare.

I will never honor her. I believe there is another life after this one. I will work it out then, not now. And I will honor and respect those who deserve it, even if they are not part of my DNA. There is nothing hard or sacred about breeding. The lowest form of life can breed. MY DNA is my DNA by accident, not by choice. Or maybe they are my DNA to teach me. But they are not my DNA for me to have to blindly accept or love them, in spite of abuse. I, nobody is obligated to give up our own lives for other people's wants and desires. Loving relatives would not want the young to give up their youth for them.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

My sister and I were not competitive. My mom just didn't want us to be close for whatever reason. Like her mother before her, I think she had the divide and conquer mentality.

I might have been competitive, but if I was, I lost the competition every time. I can not seem to get it that people...I don't get the "win" in it. It could be that I don't see myself well enough at this point to recognize my competitiveness.

But I do see that my mom would break up any perceived "faction".

Divide and conquer mentality.

Yes.

That is a true thing.

It explains why things would happen the way they happen, in my family of origin.

This is a very good piece of the puzzle for me to have, MWM. Thank you. When I find a piece of the puzzle of "why", I always find too that it goes back again to "abuse is nothing personal."

Abusers abuse because they abuse.

Still, it helps me see why someone with that mindset would do what they do.

And when that happens, I get to be a little more free.

I always thought I needed to be kinder, or that I had set something in motion that I hadn't known I was beginning.

I really like your comment on love versus control.

That rings very true.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

I actually think abusers abuse very deliberately. They choose the abused and try to control the environment so that others also abuse that person. Often the Controller is the strongest personality in the family and everyone wants to please him/her so they all fawn all over this unworthy, abusive person who holds all the "family" power. And if the Controller decides you are the one to be abused, you are. Do they abuse others too? Of course, if they stop performing their designated roles and don't cater to their needs and whims. But they have a certain blacksheep they like to abuse. Usually it is the one who "sees" the family dynamics the clearest and speaks out about the dysfunction or tries to make it better. Or goes to counseling and shares what she/he has learned, which is usually not flattering to Controller. Also, the abused is usually an overly-sensitive, low-confidence, loving person who wants desperately to fit in, even though she or he "sees."

The combination is too potent for the Controller not to abuse.

The benefit I got by learning about the Controller in my family is that I made dang sure, from the time my kids were little, that I was never that type of parent. And I did leave ex when I saw that he was more in that mold and did not respect me. Took me a long time to leave, but once I did, and decided to never accept that mindset again, my life just got better and better and better. It is so freeing NOT to be part of a controlling pact.

To be a safety net for a loving, kind family is normal. But if you don't have that, it often results in their demanding too much of us, threatening to disown/disinherit us, or just heaping on the disrespect until we feel like we are the most worthless person on the planet. We have to stop that or we will feel that way all our lives.

Confused, I hope you get this before I did. You deserve to get it and to be your own person. I don't know who the Controller in your family is, but sounds like Grandpa and Aunt is taking over. Why let them control your life?

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

If you do what the Family Controller says (that is whoever basically bosses everyone around; sometimes there are two of them), then they treat you as if you are in their favor. I hesitate to call it love, but at least you are playing your designated role in the family so you are allowed to be a part of the group.

Yes! I see that.

If you dare to defy The Controller(s) and tell them that you no longer accept your designated role anymore and that you want to be in control of your own life, well, it can go so far as to be ostracized or tossed out of the fold. At the very least, pressure, guilt, and abuse is heaped on you for defying what the group has come to expect you to do.

I'll be darned. I see that, too. During that five year period when my own parents were not speaking to me, my mom was in all out war on me and my husband mode. It was the strangest, most hurtful thing. I was told that my mom's take on it was that "if Cedar wants to be part of this family then blah, blah, blah. And if she doesn't, then she is out."

And I was like..."What?"

Because there was no unity in my family of origin.

Even then, I knew that my mother talked about each of us to one another about the others in really mean ways.

I just thought we could understand our way into the Cleaver family.

Very perceptive comments, MWM.

It sounds scary and awful for those still brainwashed as I was that you MUST do for your family, but is it a bad thing to be ostracized from this sort of group?

I am healthier when I am not in contact with my family of origin. When I am away from them, I can see the machinations for what they could be.

I just don't like to believe that could be true.

It is hard to change how we think about our relatives. Beaver Cleaver and The Brady Bunch taught us "family above all else." They never did go into how it is for children who don't have kind, understanding, fair and loving parents like the Cleavers or the Bradys. So we feel that we have to try to fit our families into those roles, even if they are nothing like that.

Yep.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I actually think abusers abuse very deliberately. They choose the abused and try to control the environment so that others also abuse that person. Often the Controller is the strongest personality in the family and everyone wants to please him/her so they all fawn all over this unworthy, abusive person who holds all the "family" power. And if the Controller decides you are the one to be abused, you are. Do they abuse others too? Of course, if they stop performing their designated roles and don't cater to their needs and whims. But they have a certain blacksheep they like to abuse. Usually it is the one who "sees" the family dynamics the clearest and speaks out about the dysfunction or tries to make it better. Or goes to counseling and shares what she/he has learned, which is usually not flattering to Controller. Also, the abused is usually an overly-sensitive, low-confidence, loving person who wants desperately to fit in, even though she or he "sees."
The combination is too potent for the Controller not to abuse.

Albatross described that blast of insight feeling perfectly on another thread.

That is happening to me in reading this one.

Confused, posting in here to be part of clarifying your issues has helped me. It is the coolest thing that if we begin a thing with clear intention BOOM we are so fortunate to see our own patterns more clearly.

:O)

I love this site.

Cedar

P.S. Thank you, MWM.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

To be a safety net for a loving, kind family is normal. But if you don't have that, it often results in their demanding too much of us, threatening to disown/disinherit us, or just heaping on the disrespect until we feel like we are the most worthless person on the planet. We have to stop that or we will feel that way all our lives.

It is chilling, to see these patterns.

But there they are.

Cedar

Which explains why my sister (who has been calling, again) can behave as though nothing has happened, as though nothing has changed. Now that I see more clearly, the machinery is visible.

And I can't not see it, anymore.

So I don't feel responsible, and that makes all the difference.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

Oh, I hated thinking of the woman who gave birth to me as a Controller. It went against nature, right? Not really. Not everyone who gives birth can nurture, which is why adoption works.Or can work.

My mother was always a Controller. She ran the family. Ten years after her death, she still does. She had sidekicks, like my uncle and his wife, who didn't really know me but nodded their heads in agreement with her bashing of me.

Death doesn't automatically end the control a strong Controller has on the family. Then "her wishes" become the Law of the Land.

Bah. I'm so done with that.

My mom's Controller was my grandmother who loved me a lot. I was the golden child to her, which set up my mom's using me as blacksheep and repeating the cycle. Yes, the cycle will repeat until some brave person who sees it is wrong...makes strong efforts not to repeat it with their own family. Abused kids are much more apt to abuse their own kids, even if they vow to themselves they won't, because they don't know any other way to make a child "behave" other than to yell abuse or to strike physically. All abused kids should have counseling before having kids of their own so they can learn better coping skills.Just as a safeguard. When I hear, "I was whipped with a belt and it didn't hurt me none, in fact I deserved it, so, yes, I will take Johnny behind the woodshed and whip him with a belt" I just cringe. The abused person believes the abuse was good for him and repeats it. That is the ultimate self-delusion at an attempt to make the parent seem like a normal one. And the cycle continues. "Nobody is gonna stop me from whippin' my kid."

And so our country lags behind others is allowing physical abuse, sometimes even at school, fortunately not in my state. It would never happen to my kids anyways. Or I should say I never would have allowed it. They would have been afraid to have done it. But I didn't have that to deal with. Doubt I'd live anywhere if a teacher was allowed to hit my kid when I didn't even do it...

I had lots of counseling before I had any children.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

The abused person believes the abuse was good for him and repeats it. That is the ultimate self-delusion at an attempt to make the parent seem like a normal one.

This is very true. It took me the longest time to take ownership of the facts where my mother was concerned. I knew what she had done was wrong. But at the same time, I did not know that it was wrong to do what she had done to me.

Probably because she kept doing it, continued to hold the same attitudes toward me as an adult.

I am so glad I see her clearly, now.

Wouldn't you think she would have had more integrity than to bully her own daughter?

We do what we can to try to understand what it is our parents are trying to teach us. On some level, I accepted that she had judged and found me wanting, and I was miraculously lucky, in an almost fraudulent way, to be alive, at all.

That is the worst, most harmful thing that comes of abuse, I think. That the abused person is taught to be grateful to the abuser for his (or her) defective life.

As if there could be such a thing as a defective life!

And the awfulness of it is that my mother is still playing the same game, today.

And I still don't get the "win" in it. But at least I no longer think I have to understand or forgive it, and I no longer believe we can guide our families of origin into a better way.

Toxic is toxic.

I was happy to learn the term "gaslighting".

I am very happy to know that once we see through it, we never respond to those kinds of emotional hits again. Before we see it, anyone can spot the vulnerability in us and move in.

But I don't get their "win," either.

I just know it happens.

Thanks, Mom.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

Wouldn't you think she would have had more integrity than to bully her own daughter?

Not if Mom was treated in a similar way or had a personality disorder (which is inherited to a point). Then everyone in the person's world, even her children, become pawns to serve her needs or be tossed out of the fold. It is part of THEIR defective personality that they do this rather than nurture.

"The first time I held you in my arms, I felt nothing, absolutely nothing." What prompted my mother to tell me that, Cedar? She could have gone to her grave without telling me that. It had not been necessary.

"If you'd been conceived today, you would have been an abortion. Of course, I love you so much now and I'm so happy to have you." My mom to Sis. Again, why say this to her with a disclaimer on top of it (she gave me the same garbage disclaimer).

What is the point of sharing this information?

I am very honest with all of my children. I believe in a clean slate and no secrets. However, there are some thoughts that don't need sharing. While I never HAD these thoughts about my children, I have thought, "Why did I take a chance with my DNA and give birth to a child?" about 37. Should I tell him? Of course not. That would be horrible. Why didn't my mother know this?

She did know it, I think, and she told us to let us know exactly where we stood.

"The only reason I had kids was you were supposed to back in the day." Another gem of hers.

And my father: "Not one of you kids have given me a moment's pleasure, not one!"

Neither of them ever said, "I was wrong to feel that way or to tell you that." None ever negated her/his horrible statements of which these are only a few.

Of my two parents, I feel softer toward my father as he has interspersed his abuse with kindness. Mother never did that. It is more confusing when they do both...abuse then act kind. I think that can be deliberate as well. It's a control method.

"I only love you when you do what I want and let me say what I want without questioning me." This was never spoken to me, but I believe it's what many personality-challenged parents say to their children of all ages.

We win once we understand their game and stop playing, allowing them to deal with our changed behavior the way they do. If it ends in rejection, at least we have our self-respect and our children can see that we (and themselves too...important point) do not have to take abuse from ANYBODY...not mom, not dad, not gramps, not gran, not husband, not sis, not neighbor...we can walk away from those who abuse us because it's wrong to bully another person. It doesn't matter who the bully is. It's still wrong. And it's to our detriment and our children to take it.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

She did know it, I think, and
she told us to let us know exactly where we stood.

And my father: "Not one of you kids have given me a moment's pleasure, not one!"

That's what I mean. It's so unbelievable to think they knew what the words they said would cost their child, how what they said would change their own child, and said those weirdly toxic words, anyway. Cheap. Those were cheap, ugly shots.

And they were taken by adults, against children!

I swear, it does make my head spin when I think about it objectively.

Who would intentionally set out to weaken their own offspring?

It's counterproductive. Strong offspring go on through time. Weakened offspring die out and the genetic line does not go on through time.

But I am seeing it in my mother, and I am seeing it in my sister, to this day.

I don't even feel badly about what I am seeing. I cannot believe it is what it is sometimes, but now that I see them for who they are, it all seems to have so little to do with me.

It isn't that I don't care about them. I do. I don't wish them ill or poor or sad or anything like that. I just am so surprised by what I know, now.

And what I think I know now must be correct, because all the little pieces are falling into place.

Soon that will be a normal state of events, too. And then, I won't have to talk about them at all, anymore.

:O)

Cedar

 

[Confused]

Wow, this is a lot to think about what you both/all said. I have been trying to slowly read it all Thank you all for sharing and as much is it hurts me that you all went through, Im proud of you sharing your lives with me/others! And the fact that we all have been through so much ( varied at some things) is both comforting and sad.

I learned something....here it goes. Although my Aunt sorta supports me as she says but then doesnt.. and she has helped with her dad when she USED to come often, I feel, this is between her and my grandpa that she refuses to stay more then two days and no nights,all she will do is a short visit at his home all because he has no cable, Im staying out of it. ( sorry run on sentence but if I was speaking its how I woulda said it- I never type proper-sorry). As much as I needed a full 48hrs of sleep, I feel that after she leaves I will hear about his cable bill non stop. So this will be worse for me ..so..why have cable? Unless gpa wants it. I wanted to be greedy for two days and say get it! But I know I will get my full two days anyway. Why? Because, I told her Im not staying there either OR coming in the mornings that I will be gone for two days!!! Im getting a motel!!! And yes, my little boogers will be with me, just the three of us!! So, sleep, maybe not, but least it will be me and my kiddos!

The old caretaker just called,( as I mentioned my Aunt did call her and asked her back from my gpa telling her to go ) we talked a bit and she understands why I cant handle ALL the people with issues, now she has even more kids and adults then me( and us again) but as we agree, only one has a mental health issues and he is still overall fine to handle.( on her side) So shes back 3 times a week- grandpa doesnt like it but thats OK, Im job hunting this week no matter!

My dad is still in the hospital, hopefully be out soon, but only when well enough.

Son well, yikes! He had a rough week with violence last week. Finally almost 98% NO violence but 100% nasty threatening mouth for the last 4 days. Well last night he threw a small table down and this morning was a bear to get going for school. Of course he hasnt stopped picking on his sister Im realizing how little..I mean little things that don't bother most, sometimes bothers him and sometimes doesn't. Its really strange. Somethings he is so bright and even ahead in age, somethings he is so far behind on in age.

Daughter is being stubborn on her school work, still wanting the computer instead, says she doesnt need/want help yet wont do her work. Well new rule is she has to do her work in the dining room, not her room so I make sure its done( as well as almost same time) I tried telling her she needs to speed it up as shes already lost a year...And she could even grad early once she catches up. Now we are adding the other 4 courses this week, ha, this will be interesting. We shall see.

I really wish I could open my own business if I cant find work soon, but again, I need experience and something that taxes can be taken out of and social security works with. Also, most jobs- Id need more schooling! No news on Medicaid for me, I applied but the interviewer said nothing. So, guess not.

Well, so much to say but Ill stop for now, more cleaning, gotta make a grocery list, bathe the dogs, and attempt to make a nice glass of iced tea. Funny how tea and soda along with food seems better from other people!

Hugs everyone-Ill try to catch up with everyone's posts and see if I can lend some support

 

[InsaneCdn]

you're moving in the right direction. Remember that two steps forward and one step back STILL leaves you ahead of where you were...

 

[Confused]

Thanks Insane, Im trying.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

But I know I will get my full two days anyway. Why? Because, I told her Im not staying there either OR coming in the mornings that I will be gone for two days!!! Im getting a motel!!! And yes, my little boogers will be with me, just the three of us!! So, sleep, maybe not, but least it will be me and my kiddos!

Kewl beans.

:O)

So shes back 3 times a week- grandpa doesnt like it but thats OK, Im job hunting this week no matter!

You need to do that. I am so glad you have more time for it, now.

Wishing well on the job front! It will be good for you to be away from everyone you love for a little while each day.

I really wish I could open my own business

Here is a thought. You are care-taking for gpa already. Nurse's Aide courses are only six weeks. After you have worked in home care long enough to get a feel for how it works and how it's booked and what is charged, then you could start your own home care business. There are many free business courses online offered through premium colleges ~ even MIT.

You sound so much stronger, already.

This makes me feel happy.

:O)

Cedar

 

[Confused]

Thanks for the idea, but I wander if I should handle more people with issues like that. (I do like helping people and animals.) Of course, it would only be an 8hr shift and a NON family member! Theres always help needed in that area and I have the experience , just need the CNA certificate! Thanks, Ill be looking into the colleges. I do have a Bachelors in Multidisciplinary, so hopefully it will help somehow!

 

[BusynMember]

I was also thinking that a caretaker is probably just another burn out job for you. I'd try something different where your only responsibility is how you do your own job. Cashiering is a good start.

 

[Confused]

I thought to myself Id like to hide on a computer at home and work that way. If that was an option at least for a while I sure would because sometimes I just need a break from dealing face to face with people after all this! Cashier is a good idea,esp from midnight on. Im aiming for overnight stocking or at least stocking during the day. Pets Id love wot work with, but again, many people.

Its sad how all this stress affected me this way, I used to love dealing with people and just talking!!! Id strike up a conversation over anything!!! I mean the internet is good too because its on my time, when im in the mood. My goal is to be" almost" who i was when I was 5/6 years old. Talkative, relaxed, happy, outgoing etc. One day I want to be in a job with lots a people, I just think a well needed break would be good? ( not from work but from being a round a ton of people). Also another reason I one day want to own my own business is besides for my kids is because I want to answer to.. ME!!!! for a change!

As you all said, guts and determinations and just do it!


***Bad News***Update is my grandpa is re-firing" the help we just got back and only wanting her for rides to the Dr once in a while. Oh no ways not this again. I already told him as did my Aunt that I cant keep this up- he even said he wanted "company" and he'd take someone to help again. Nows hes going back because of the money. Uggh. You said Midwest as others get out of dodge- yup!!! I am looking for out of town jobs. I have slowly backed down from grandpa and just cant give any more then I am, so, its his fault not mine and Im almost trying to believe this. Some moments I do.. Im a work in progress? Again-As you all said, guts and determinations and just do it!