Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2

[BusynMember]

You think you were not savagely abused, SWOT. But the truth is...you were. And then, even as adults, your sister chose to publicly humiliate you with her words, with her deceitful namings, at a time when you did not know yourself what the truth was.

Just like the phony text about my surgery, in which she claimed my Dad told her, when he hadn't...she likes to hurt me. REALLY hurt me. And embarass me. She knew from reading this that I didn't want her to know about that and she pretended she cared and wished me well, with tongue in cheek and laughter in her heart. She is becoming more and more horrible as she gets older and things don't go her way, and I won't let her take me with her.

She is furious that she has no control over this forum. In the past, she would even call the police to try to stop me from doing whatever she didn't want me to do, but she can't stop me from writing about my family here just as she writes about me on her forum. I believe she is out of her mind with her lack of ability to stop me from doing what she doesn't want me to do. In the past, I have always eventually done as she wished, even without the police...lol.

She knew this policemen knew us and that if he had been a jerk, rather than a good guy, she could have screwed up not just my life in a very small town, but Jumper's life, my child, who never did anything to her. This man's daughter was one of Jumper's best friends. Fortunately, he is a good guy who knew me well enough to know it wasn't me. As for telling him I had bipolar, when he told me I said, with my chin lifted high, "I have a mood disorder and take medication, but I'm stable." He shrugged. "My girlfriend takes an antidepressant." We spoke a bit about what she takes and what I take. Her spilling the beans did not freak him out one bit. Later, he asked me if SHE had mental health issues because she kept calling.

How incredibly horrible is that?

And she calls ME a problem?

Anyway, yes, she is not worth my angst and this time I will really, really try not to see her fake name or visit that site. In fact, maybe I'll ask the mods to ban me from it. I come so far that I think she won't bother me anymore, but she will always bother me unless I don't get real life reminders of her.

This was a good lesson for me to learn.


Thanks for your understanding. It is so greatly appreciated.

 

[Copabanana]

I cheated. The fact is, I really don't need to see if she posted about me again or not.

SWOT, I think really this is the best. Every time you look you give her power.

At every point, your sister could decide to love you from strength. There are so many ways she could let you know that she has changed.

Instead she chooses to take the weak and low way out, she chooses to empower herself by denigrating you. She uses you to try to be bigger than she really is. What she is is a coward.

You are not a coward.

There is no good reason to ever again check to see if she posts. Let her. Your real life is far, far away.

DO NOT CHEAT.

I am going to post my apology.

The only person to whom you owe an apology is to yourself. Nobody else. You do not deserve to be hurt, SWOT. You do not deserve to be hurt by your own hand. Or by anybody else.

Don't cheat.

 

[Copabanana]

Later, he asked me if SHE had mental health issues because she kept calling.

SWOT, every time you cheat and look you rent space to her in your head. You volunteer to carry for her, her very serious pathology. I think that is why you do it. I think you want to protect her, still, up to and including carrying her pathology.

Do not do it anymore.

she likes to hurt me. REALLY hurt me. And embarass me.

I know, SWOT. Please, please do not allow this anymore. Every time you go back to that website you allow her to hurt and embarrass you. Do not.

She is becoming more and more horrible as she gets older

Certain personality disordered people become more anti-social as they get older, because their grandiose fantasies have not come true. They become more and more frantic and hurtful of others both to avenge their pain and as a last-ditch attempt to secure what they still so desperately want. I see your sister as such.

 

[BusynMember]

Certain personality disordered people become more anti-social as they get older, because their grandiose fantasies have not come true. They become more and more frantic and hurtful of others both to avenge their pain and and to secure what they still so desperately want. I see your sister as such.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Copa. Your wise words really make sense. Yes, she is worse and her life circumstances don't help. I have to stop cheating. Thank you, thank you. You are so kind.

 

[Copabanana]

SWOT, you are the only person around. I am very, very sad. Crying kind of sad. All day. Earlier I posted asking whether I should go cross country or back to work.

The reality is I cannot even go to the kitchen.

I do not know why I am such a failure at detachment parenting. I cannot get over the despair about my son. (Now I am sobbing.)

I do not know where this deep, deep pain came from. I understand that I must let my son go. He wants this. I cannot keep going on the way it was...anymore...either.

There is something deeply damaged in my psyche that will not get fixed.

I have a call into the doctor, to see what I need to do to get another type of antidepressant to see if it works better.

Meanwhile, what can I do that makes the pain less? I cannot even find it within myself to post on other threads. I feel too vulnerable.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, you are grieving, like I did. That's normal. I'm so sorry I'm not there to give you a real life hug.

Please, please call the doctor and get back to those of us who care about you so much so that we know you are ok. I will be around the computer most of the afternoon.

Yes, I'm probably addicted to the internet (sigh).

Your feelings of sadness because of your son are not anything any loving person would not feel in your situation. That doesn't mean you shouldn't reach out and ask for a little help too. This is just too hard to do alone.

 

[Copabanana]

I have an appointment for next Thursday to see the doctor. They would not give me a prescription without a visit.

I will try and see if another doctor who saw me more recently will call one in.

Thank you, SWOT

 

[nerfherder]

Nerf. I am able to find this book by an author named Ginzburg, but not by Caplan.

Dur. I mix them up a lot. Caplan's wrote some wonderful essays I was reading at the same time, while digging for Judaic and pre-Judaic historical references of Leviathan. Ginzburg is right.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Copa, I came back on to check on you.

D H is waiting. I cannot post at length. How are you? I had hoped to see another post from you. We care about you, Copa.

We do.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

How are you? I had hoped to see another post from you.

Thank you Cedar. SWOT was here earlier and then M came home. He is being tender and treating me like a very sick person. Good. I am.

So, I am a little better. I just need to tell you right here that I do not want my son to die. I know I cannot keep him alive. But I do not want him to die. I think I have a new variety of PTSD. I will write an article on it. (Joke.)

We decided something. We will go cross country. We will think of the trip only as a travel cure.

I think English people used to do this in 19th and early 20th century. They would go to Italy when depressed or neurasthenic. They would take the waters. Stay at posh hotels with other similarly afflicted people.

There will be no expectations. No rules. I can return home when I want. It will cost what it costs. We will try to keep it within bounds, but we will spend what we need to and deal with it later.

The goal will be to do only what I need to do to get better. Art therapy, Needlework. Dancing. Walking. Restaurants. Codependents Anonymous. Al Anon. Mah Jongg and Bridge as I get better. I will have to be much better, because I am very tender skinned right now. Maybe swimming. I will go to Seniors and the Jewish Community Center. M will study English.

M is not sure it will work, but it is my best chance.

M is concerned because my son is worse and worse, and he sees me needing my son so much. He does not know how I will deal with this. Nor do I.

M will finish his job in a week. Then we will dedicate ourselves to working together toward leaving. I am thinking we need to leave no later than the end of October, to avoid bad weather, taking the Southern Route, to be on the safe side. M thinks we can be out of here by mid September. I doubt it.

I called a second doctor this afternoon and asked for a prescription for an antidepressant. I do not know if it was granted but I will follow up tomorrow and the pharmacy.

I will check in with you mid day. Do not worry. M is here. He is calm. He seems to understand the situation. This reassures me that somebody understands. Because I do not. Thank you.

 

[Copabanana]

Here is a really nice note from Feeling Sad from another thread. When I am feeling sad and bad about myself I go through the threads and delete my posts because I feel ashamed. Before I had deleted it, Feeling had written it down. I feel good that it made her feel better. I feel kind of foolish I am going around deleting posts.

It makes me want to go back to work. With women.

I had thought about learning all of the textile arts as therapeutic modalities. I believed that women working together could be a way to do psychotherapy. I thought that way about dance and art, too. Not as dance or art therapy per se. But embodied in psychotherapy individual or group in some way or another.

So as part of my travelling cure, I can re-insert this idea from years ago using dance, art and textiles to work. I mean the trip is for me. But I can revision it to be for me as a way to be better, feel better and to work. I can start writing articles for publication. I can be a STAR. (A joke.)

This is what Feeling wrote and what I had deleted.

Copa, I wanted to thank you for what you wrote. It really helped me. It has disappeared though... It is going to sound strange, but I wrote it down. I write things down from sites or after therapy that I find very helpful. I then read these things when I need strength...first thing it the morning or at night when my strength ebbs. You wrote:

"I think you chose for both of your sons and yourself.

Sheltering your older son, was not helping him. Let alone, the cost to everybody else.

I agree with you that your son in the world is likely to access services. There is hope.

As long as he hid away in his room in your home, there was none. It took enormous courage to do what you did. You did a very brave thing.

Most of all you did the right thing for your son. For all of you".

Thank you, Copa, very much. I have read it many, many times. It summed up my problem exactly and, more importantly, conveyed hope. It made me cry...The good type of crying. Even though you are feeling so much pain, you still found the time to write something to help me feel better. You are truly a wonderful and thoughtful person. Heartfelt thanks. Take care!

Isn't that such a sweet, nice thing to write to me?????

 

[Feeling Sad]

Copa, I have been following along. My heart goes out to you. We are both new at this. I am the same way.

They wanted to give me an antidepressant but I had a craniotomy in 2007 to remove a benign brain tumor. Long story short, I had simple partial seizures where I would lose feeling on my right side while I stayed awake. If scared, I have numbness still. Antidepressants will lower my threshold of having seizures, so I can't take them

I just left you a message on my thread about my son. Then I went trying to find you on the site!

Your message brought tears to my eyes. It was so perfect and beautiful. I wrote it down so I could read it when I am feeling very down. Yours was the only one from here that I have written down. Then, it disappeared. I wrote it again myself because it was so beautiful. Thank you. Even when you are going through so much pain, you took the time to help me and others.

You will get through this. You are a strong and thoughtful woman. Both of our sons are very ill and we are helpless to help them. Our situations are, in that way, very similar.

We are both going to get through this!!! I know that we will. We need to remain strong so when they do resurface, and I have hope that they both will, we will be there for them...centered and strong!

Take care, and again, thank you!

 

[Copabanana]

Dear Feeling,

When you were writing your last post here, I was posting too. Look at the post prior to yours. I was celebrating the lovely words you wrote, that you felt better. I felt so happy that something I wrote had touched you and had given you some peace. What a gift to me.

That we can grasp somewhat each other's private pain to soothe and to reassure is a gift that we share here. I am so grateful.

Thank you, Feeling.

 

[Feeling Sad]

We were doing it at the same time...we really are kindred spirits.

It is funny. I wrote it down in my notes I keep by my bed because it was so succinct and perfect. Then, when I looked later on the site..it was gone! I feel like it am going crazy, and then, I really thought that I must be! I knew that I had written it down, but where was it???? I kept trying to find it...

I am so glad that I could make you feel better. You definitely helped me! Here's to a new friendship. Take care.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Mom didn't make pierogies, not very often. She made some awesome kreplach though. We have a bunch of food allergies in the house, so anything with wheat for the kids is more special treat than staple. I do some special treat thing like that around once a month, it's hard for me too since I'm mildly allergic to wheat and shouldn't eat any. (Not a gluten issue, I can drink beer and scotch with no problems.) Asthma medications cost money, so it's cheaper to just not eat it.

What is "kreplach", nerfie?

I have wheat allergies, too. No beer, for me.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

she pretended she cared and wished me well, with tongue in cheek and laughter in her heart

That is the worst betrayal. And those betrayals ~ betrayals of the heart ~ will no longer be possible if we don't trust them; if we don't let them in. It was never what they did; it was what we allowed them to do because we love them and wanted to believe, despite every bit of evidence to the contrary, that they felt as we did.

Out of all the things any of our sisters have done, it is the betrayal at the heart of it that makes relationship impossible. You cannot trust someone determined to use your heart and kindness and love for her to manipulate and weaken and disparage and bring you down.

And that is what our sisters do.

And I cannot imagine what it be like to really have a sister, but I wish I did. It wouldn't be only that we would have someone who has been beside us all our lives. It would be good, rich laughter and safety and friendship and extended family on both sides and sharing our children, too. I would be a beloved aunt; my children and grands would have a beloved aunt in their lives.

Just think about that ~ about how different everything could have been for every one of us, if our sisters hadn't been jerks. D H has sisters. That is how I know this is how it would be, how it should be.

I am angry about the cheap, imitation family I had, instead. Can those people do nothing, not one thing, right?!?

Ours is an ugly story. I've been facing up to that for awhile, now. I never knew it was so stupidly mean. The more love there is, the more love there is; the more a family proceeds as my FOO has, that place where family should sort of shine for us inside is a dead stick, something shriveled and dry.

So, those too are the things we need to provide for ourselves. We deserve some warm, bright and happy thing at the core of ourselves.

Our lives will be rich and full and bright and warm and happy and productive in every dimension.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I just need to tell you right here that I do not want my son to die. I know I cannot keep him alive. But I do not want him to die. I think I have a new variety of PTSD. I will write an article on it. (Joke.)

This is for all of us, really. I am reading David Brooks' The Road to Character.

"Suffering, like love, shatters the illusion of self-mastery. Those who suffer can't tell themselves to stop feeling pain, or to stop missing the one who has died or gone."

Another:

"In normal times we treat the love we receive as a reason for self-satisfaction (I deserve to be loved), but in seasons of suffering we realize how undeserved this love is and how it should in fact be cause for thanks. In proud moments we refuse to be indebted, but in humble moments, people know they don't deserve the affection and care they receive.

People in this circumstance also have a sense tat they are swept up in some larger providence. Abraham Lincoln ... (recitation of Lincoln's life) emerged with a sense that Providence had taken control of his life, that he was a small instrument in a transcendent task."

And finally:

"I mean seeing the pain s part of a moral narrative and trying to redeem something bad by turning it into something sacred, some act of sacrificial service that will put oneself in fraternity with the wider community and with eternal moral demands."

We decided something. We will go cross country. We will think of the trip only as a travel cure.

I think English people used to do this in 19th and early 20th century. They would go to Italy when depressed or neurasthenic. They would take the waters. Stay at posh hotels with other similarly afflicted people.

There will be no expectations. No rules. I can return home when I want. It will cost what it costs. We will try to keep it within bounds, but we will spend what we need to and deal with it later.

Ah, Copa.

You make me so happy!

:O)

I will check in with you mid day. Do not worry. M is here. He is calm. He seems to understand the situation. This reassures me that somebody understands. Because I do not. Thank you.

Thank you, Copa. I know you will come through it. I did. My situation was similar Copa. I believe you will come through beautifully, enriched and enlarged, and you are. I see it; I feel it. You will not need me for that to come to its fruition...but I am honored to be here with you.

When I am feeling sad and bad about myself I go through the threads and delete my posts because I feel ashamed

"I am ashamed of these tears and yet, at the extreme of my misfortune, I am ashamed not to shed them."

Euripedes

I did not check my quote box for the above quote. I believe it is correct, and correctly attributed to Euripedes.

***

There is no shame in what's happened to us, Copa.

Though I am appalled at myself, at the rottenness of some of the things I post, or at the ridiculous shallowness in some of them...I leave my posts. Among the questions that most horrified me when everything seemed so hopeless was whether what I felt then would ever end. There was no road map, no way for me to track another mother's journey and assure myself that I would come alive, again.

I leave those records for the next person who needs to know she will live.

No one knows who we are in our real lives, Copa.

There is no harm in it, and maybe, much benefit for someone else, for someone we don't even know; someone who is happy today and cannot imagine where she will be when she joins us here, on this site.

I had thought about learning all of the textile arts as therapeutic modalities. I believed that women working together could be a way to do psychotherapy. I thought that way about dance and art, too. Not as dance or art therapy per se. But embodied in psychotherapy individual or group in some way or another.

Yes!

Deep healing is possible just with the concentrated energy of women together. I believe that with all my heart, Copa. Dance, to reclaim the muscles and bones and body. Creations in cloth or paint or clay to whisper the spirit whole ~ yes, Copa!

So as part of my travelling cure, I can re-insert this idea from years ago using dance, art and textiles to work. I mean the trip is for me. But I can revision it to be for me as a way to be better, feel better and to work. I can start writing articles for publication. I can be a STAR. (A joke.)

I have every faith in you, Copa.

No question that this will come to pass, at all.

***

Feeling Sad?

Welcome!

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

Though I am appalled at myself, at the rottenness of some of the things I post, or at the ridiculous shallowness in some of them...I leave my posts. Among the questions that most horrified me when everything seemed so hopeless was whether what I felt then would ever end. There was no road map, no way for me to track another mother's journey and assure myself that I would come alive, again.

I didn't even know you can delete posts after the fifteen minute window.

Copa, I do not blame you for wanting your son to live. That is normal. It would be abnormal if you did not. Did he have active Hep. B for long? Did you know about it when you were presented with his adoption profile?

When you think about it, Copa, most of the adult children on this forum are trying to cheat death, not just your son. Their lifestyles are so dangerous and drug addiction can cause so many illnesses aside from drug ODs themselves. It really makes me wonder what type of mind is so battered by illness that one constantly is at risk, knows it and chooses it.

I feel so horrible for all the moms here who face this, and there are so many.

When my daughter took drugs she looked like warmed over death and I thought she was going to end up in prison or die. I preferred prison.

This is not a good place to be. All you can do is take care of your own needs. Take that trip across the world with M. and let him love you. He does love you. He sounds like such a good man. He doesn't want you to hurt. He is in this for the duration and has not let your self-doubt chase him away. He is a keeper.

So are you.

Hugs.

 

[Copabanana]

People in this circumstance also have a sense that they are swept up in some larger providence. Abraham Lincoln ... (recitation of Lincoln's life) emerged with a sense that Providence had taken control of his life, that he was a small instrument in a transcendent task."

Cedar, I will get the book.

This is what I posted on Joy's thread:

I am seeing that I must have faith, to go forward. Faith in something larger than me. Whether it is in G-d or in nature or in life itself...that can carry me where I need to go, and can carry my son as well.

There is no other way though this, I think

I was reading today about the Malaysian Air wreckage found off Madagascar. Australian scientists over a year ago had predicted that any wreckage that existed from the supposed crash would end up right there. It did.

How did they know it would? Because powerful currents would carry it. When human hands and human will could no longer solve this mystery, it would be carried by the power of nature and the divine. I will learn to let the divine forces of life carry me and my son to where we need to go.

Thank you, Cedar, Swot and all.

 

[Copabanana]

Cedar?? If you have a wheat allergy how can you eat all the bread and baklava and other pastry that you make? Don't cheat.

Here is a recipe for Kreplach. They are kind of like a Jewish Ravioli. They are typically put in soup, but can also be fried like a Potsticker. Jewish food developed in the various "host countries" in which they lived. Perhaps they have a common origin to the Ravioli. I have some Jewish Cookbooks and will see if there is any history.

This recipe is adapted from the Jewish Settlement Cookbook of about 110 years ago. My Mother had a copy but I do not know where it went. Maybe I will get another one.

Kreplach

This recipe cheats by using packaged Won Ton Wrappers instead of handmade noodle dough. I have not made these.

INGREDIENTS

Won Ton Wrappers

• 1 lb cooked beef, chopped (such as leftover roast beef or brisket)
• 2 onions, sliced and browned
• 1 egg
• Salt to taste
• Black pepper to taste
• Olive Oil (original recipe called for schmaltz, rendered chicken fat)

DIRECTIONS

1. Prepare Meat Filling - Use meat grinder, or roughly chop by hand or chop in Cuisinart. Combine with browned onions.
2. Add egg, salt and pepper to meat and onion mixture
3. Place a teaspoon of meat mixture on every square and then fold each into a triangle, pressing the edges together. Wet the edges with water or egg yolk if needed to get them to stick well.
4. Drop kreplach into boiling salted water or soup, and cook for 15 minutes.
5. Remove with slotted spoon and drain on paper towels. Refrigerate or freeze until ready to serve. (They could also be served immediately in hot soup).
6. Prior to serving, thaw (if frozen) and brush tops with oil, butter or schmaltz. Bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes or until heated through