Family Reunion From Hell

[Jabberwockey]

Believe it or not, your family's sympathies lie with you and Lil.

I'm quite certain that they had the best of intentions. They just forgot which road is paved with good intentions. We are fully aware of the fact that nothing will change in our son's life until he decides to change it.

If family members choose to get sucked in, let them know you won't be riding in to the rescue when it goes south.

If one good thing has come from this, its that my sibs now know what we are dealing with. I will not try to stop them from helping if they so choose but its on them. I'm just ready for our son to live his own life, no matter how dysfunctional it may be, without calling us every five minutes to vent about how EVERYONE is screwing him over.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I'm just ready for our son to live his own life, no matter how dysfunctional it may be, without calling us every five minutes to vent about how EVERYONE is screwing him over.

And it doesn't help when once in a while, he actually DOES get "screwed over" in ways that were not totally his fault. And yes, that happens to neurotypical kids too. Unfortunately, it's part of life. But take a kid like this and give him a few real-life examples of being at the short end of the stick, and... that's what he's going to see coming at him from every direction, even if it isn't true.

Your sibs opened Pandora's box. Some good may come of it yet, but it really didn't need opening.

 

[Lil]

What was the fit about, Lil?

What does that look like, when he is having a tantrum?

What was it about? Well it started with being grumpy because grandma woke him up early and started immediately on "go get a job". He is unreasonably adverse to being told to "get a job". In other words, lazy as hell. He's also NOT a morning person. So he starts the day in a bad mood. He wants to go to Six Flags with his girl...with no money and she's an hour away. He's ridiculous. But that kind of selfish nonsense is what he's best at. He then gets told to go to Pizza Hut to get an "assessment". and his mood changes from angry to excited. He goes and it literally is filling out a paper and they'll let him know. So he's back to upset because he doesn't have a job when he thought they'd hire him when he went. He gets home to find out that his Vape is broken and he'd just spent his last $10 on atomizers for it. He has no Vape and 3 cigarettes and no job and no money and his grandparents are (in his mind) being unreasonable about the job hunting and they want him to help mow the yard, again, which he hates...That's what it was about.

What does it look like? Hard to say. If you try to speak to him he shouts and is rude and is loud and will actually SCREAM out his words. He'll have his fists clenched and jaw clenched and his body language is very aggressive. He'll huff and puff like he's trying to blow the house down. He'll toss his arms around and has punched the door to his room numerous times, bloodying his knuckles. He slams doors and throws things on the floor and generally acts like an idiot.

I don't doubt it is quite frightening to anyone who doesn't know him well enough to just get mad at him for being a jerk.

I am sorry, Lil. I think D C does understand, and that his words regarding the grands' reactions are a manipulation designed to inflame the mother heart in you and get you on his "side".

It worked.

No. It didn't.

I don't think you get that just because I believe that, in his mind, things were better and all was well, does NOT mean I am on "his side". I must have said a dozen times on this thread that I blame him completely for getting kicked out. Our entire problem is HOW it was done, not THAT it was done.

There is something hitting me wrong about how little your son understood about why his grandparents were upset; how he could not understand they were afraid for their money and maybe, their lives.

Actually, that makes perfect sense to me because that is how he is. He has had a thousand tantrums and when they are over they are over in his mind. You should never even mention them again. Once he's happy, everyone else should just forget it ever happened.

That is the way he ALWAYS has been. This is nothing new.

It bothers me that you could not talk to the grandma at length because D C kept popping up.

This is also quite normal for him. In any large group, especially if they are people he does not know well or older people, he pretty much stays right by my side. I tell him to go talk to a cousin and he'll blow it off or say he doesn't want to or what have you. While this is family, he's seen them maybe 4 times a year, so they would not be people he "knows well". If he's bored, he knows he can ramble on at us about Game of Thrones or whatever his obsession of the moment is, to us. So he stays next to us to have someone to talk to. Also the younger folks tend to throw a ball around, etc., and he has no interest in that. He did, eventually, go out and talk with the cousins...but by then we were about to leave, (or so we thought).

Also, let's be honest, he knew we may be talking about him and he's nosey.

Your son's plans and actions are not in sync with reality and whoever gets drawn in to them is going to suffer. He plans to live in the woods behind a trailer park and mooch off an underage girl he met on the Internet, while her new step-father looks on?

Oh worse than that. He plans to move in with a girl who will have just barely turned 18, who he met on the internet, while her biological father (who she just recently moved in with having lived with her mother previously) looks on, with the girl paying for everything because he doesn't have a job yet.

Believe me when I say this reminds me so much of his biological father it scares me. I just hope he doesn't leave a trail of illegitimate children behind.

I'm just ready for our son to live his own life, no matter how dysfunctional it may be, without calling us every five minutes to vent about how EVERYONE is screwing him over.

OMG, how true this is. I want this SO much!

And it doesn't help when once in a while, he actually DOES get "screwed over" in ways that were not totally his fault. And yes, that happens to neurotypical kids too. Unfortunately, it's part of life. But take a kid like this and give him a few real-life examples of being at the short end of the stick, and... that's what he's going to see coming at him from every direction, even if it isn't true.

Yep. Like I said, he has a real persecution complex. In his little brain no one but him ever has consequences for their actions. Everyone else can break rules with impunity, but he's not allowed to.

From being a little boy who complained that everyone else talked in class, but HE was the only one who ever got punished for it, to the grown man who complained that the homeless shelter let his friend get food from the pantry but HE wouldn't be allowed to because it was against the rules (so he never asked), or his friends would put in one job application and get hired, but that doesn't work for him - he has the idea firmly in mind that the whole world is against him.

 

[Echolette]

Did any of you see Silver Lining Playbook? Bradley Cooper plays a young man who is bipolar, and he is absolutely masterful at it. He attacks his wife's lover and crosses all kinds of boundaries, and when people are afraid of him he is surprised and tries to brush over it with a "yeah that was a mistake but I know better now, lets move on" approach. In one awful scene he is actually on top of his mother attacking her...when his psychiatrist tries to talk to him about the impact of that he quickly tries to brush by it because he just doesn't get, DOESNT WANT TO KNOW, that those things have huge, forever consequences.

Your son reminds me of Bradley Cooper. Who reminds me of my son.

I am sorry, Lil and Jabber. Your son needs to understand that he has betrayed the family's trust. It isn't about whether he feels loved or accepted. It is about what he did.

Lil and Jabber, these are the consequences that happen to our D C in real life.

I am totally with Cedar on this.

It is totally OK that you need to keep buffering him. I get that. He is young, and you are scared for him, and mad at him, and embarassed by him, and all the other stuff that happens with DCs.

I don't think it will get better for you until you can stop engaging with him every day and let him sink or swim on his own. That time may not be now or soon for you or him, but I hope you find some relief in stepping away a little bit more each day.

Good luck to the two of you, and to him. Its hard.

Echo

 

[1905]

Do you think this girl is like many of our kids who say, "That's it! I'm moving out the minute I turn 18 and you have no say in it!"? Does that ever actually happen (however much we wish it will)? She doesn't have a vehicle. Not to mention the myriad amount of other things she hasn't thought through, like where will she, or they, live exactly?

I think once your son got out of the cab he forgot the whole business of how exactly he was removed. Like you state, once he's happy everyone should should just forget it and move on. It's a new minute. He's having a rough time, later in life he'll get through this and all will be well. His grandparents will forgive and forget and he will be back to normal and things will be ok. Even the aunts...it will be one big family. At the moment...strife, but it won't be forever. He's going to get through this part of his life somehow. The longer he's away from you, the more he's learning. He really has to fend for himself, you aren't around the corner, it's hard on him. This is a good lesson for him, you need to be this far away for him to get these life skills. I know it totally stinks that this is how he has to learn them, my boy too, but he did learn the hard way. It's the only way for some.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Do you think this girl is like many of our kids who say, "That's it! I'm moving out the minute I turn 18 and you have no say in it!"? Does that ever actually happen (however much we wish it will)? She doesn't have a vehicle. Not to mention the myriad amount of other things she hasn't thought through, like where will she, or they, live exactly?

Basically, this girl is upset with her dad and a lot of this is to piss him off. Why, I don't know since he is her ride to work 15 miles away. They are planning on renting a trailer in the same place her father lives. We have mentioned the whole co-signer thing but I doubt its sunk in yet. Their "plan" is pretty much a recipe for disaster but hey! Its their disaster to have. Not my circus, not my monkeys!

 

[Lil]

Not to mention the myriad amount of other things she hasn't thought through, like where will she, or they, live exactly?

Oh! Even better! They intend to rent a cheap little trailer in the SAME trailer park her dad lives in!

Yeah, these two haven't gotten one shred of common sense between them.

I am totally with Cedar on this.

It is totally OK that you need to keep buffering him. I get that. He is young, and you are scared for him, and mad at him, and embarassed by him, and all the other stuff that happens with DCs.

I don't think it will get better for you until you can stop engaging with him every day and let him sink or swim on his own. That time may not be now or soon for you or him, but I hope you find some relief in stepping away a little bit more each day.

Good luck to the two of you, and to him. Its hard.

Echo

HOW are we buffering him? HOW are we engaging him?

THE ONLY THING WE ARE UPSET ABOUT is that they blindsided us instead of giving us - or him - a heads up! NO ONE TOLD US THERE WAS A PROBLEM. No phone call, no warning. They just pulled Jabber aside AS WE WERE TRYING TO LEAVE and proceeded to tell us to handle it! They didn't give him any warning either. In fact, middle sis had hired him for a day and went on about what a great kid he was. EVERYONE acted like it was all just fine - until the very END of our visit when Jabber was making his good-byes! We ended up with a 2 hour drive being turning into 6 hours...and after that we had middle sis change the plans on how he was getting where he needed to be making US spend even more time and effort because we'd left him in the wrong place!

The LAST thing we wanted was to have anything to do with this!!! We'd have been MUCH happier if the family had just kicked him out and took him back where they got him! How much less buffering and engaging is there?

 

[Echolette]

Lil,

I'm not criticizing you. I'm hoping you can see new ways of disengaging that might be healthy for you and Jabber, and might leave your son to figure things out himself.

This is buffering:

We take him to Wal-Mart to replace some of the food I originally bought (dried fruit, canned meat, jerky, etc.) We buy him a book to replace the one he'd checked out from the library in his grandparent's town (which I'm going to have to somehow return)

This is buffering:

We explain all this to our son. We explain that the family does love and care about him, but they feel they have to protect their parents from any more stress. We tell him that if any one of their children were causing that kind of stress, the reaction would be the same. Our son seems to accept this.

This is buffering:

We explain that, while they may have not shown it, his grandparents were extremely stressed. They are near 80, in ill health (Jabber's father has Parkinson's) and they simply couldn't take the stress.

This is buffering:

Long story short, the brother and youngest sister join in, the decision is made that Jabber and I will take him to the girlfriend's town and put him up in a hotel for the night.

You are trying to help your son by explaining, by softening the blow of rejection. By buying food. By buying a book.

All these things soften the fact that he exploded at his elderly grandparents and that a lot of caring adults felt obliged to remove him as fast as possible once they had a chance to think about it. He did that. He set up that situation.

I don't have the answers Lil, I don't.

But that is what I meant when I said you were buffering. I hope that helps.

Echo

 

[Lil]

Oh, that's in addition to being upset with him! HE got himself kicked out. HE scared his grandparents, which is pretty unforgivable. HE is being an idiot and will likely end up calling us when it all falls apart but at this point he's in too deep for us to do anything, even if we were so inclined.

But that's just par for the course.

 

[Lil]

But that is what I meant when I said you were buffering. I hope that helps.

I guess when you put it that way it makes some sense. But frankly, they did this poorly and really kind of dirty, tossing him out at a family reunion instead of making any attempt to talk to him! So yeah, did I think it a good idea to soften the blow? Yes. But I'd have done the exact same thing for anyone who was being pretty much kicked out of the family...at least to their way of thinking.

I think if anyone is being kicked out six days after the incident, when he thinks that it's water under the bridge, they deserve an explanation.

My brain is officially tired of thinking about this. I think I'll do the Scarlett O'Hara thing again. Later all.

 

[Echolette]

They did do it poorly, Lil, I feel you on that! And I'm sorry this is happening to you. I remember when I realized that my brother in law (my sister's husband) wasn't willing to have Difficult Child in his home anymore. That was a bad day. You got that 100 fold.
Hugs to you and Jabber.
Echo

 

[Copabanana]

I think what Echo is trying to tell us is this: We are in an impossible situation. The love is bottomless. The sense of responsibility is limitless. The connection is clear, true and strong. Too strong.

To survive this and to give our kids a chance we have to interrupt that connection a little bit, so that our responses to their pain are not as automatic as they once were.

they did this poorly and really kind of dirty, tossing him out at a family reunion instead of making any attempt to talk to him!

Everybody got on the same page at the family reunion *except Lil and Jabber. Which is my problem with this.

But others seem to be more sanguine about the exclusion, that the siblings felt uncomfortable involving you and Jabber about something so delicate and painful. As your son.

I think if anyone is being kicked out six days after the incident, when he thinks that it's water under the bridge, they deserve an explanation.

The explanation is this: You acted in a way that scared everybody. This is the consequence. End of story.

This does not justify the poor choices of others. But the responsible person is your son, because he betrayed his grandparents by his behavior. And he suffered the consequences.

Whether others betrayed each other or not, does not change this fundamental truth.

I do not understand how anyone thinks this is us insinuating ourselves into his life

I am almost as perplexed as you are.

I talk to a Psychiatrist every two weeks on the phone. I told him about my son. How when my son is in distress I collapse, I go to bed. I cannot take it. As if there is a direct tube between my son's psyche and my own.

His reply? You're a mother.

This is the same psychiatrist that has been trying to get me to accept that I did not cause it, I can't cure it, or control it.

The closest I can come to understanding is to try to develop some mediators between my reaction to my son's distress so as to not react....but rather respond.

To have my interactions with my son be guided by conscious and deliberate thought and planning, rather than mother emotion.

 

[SuZir]

I would be careful naming something that may be totally honest take of events as manipulation. One has to remember that just being in wrong does not equal to dishonesty. When people thought that sun circled the earth, they were not dishonest or manipulative; they were just massively wrong.

People have different thought processes. That someone sees things very differently from majority, they often are not dishonest or manipulative, they really think and believe that way. But from majority's point of view they may still be very wrong.

With Ache, who is not totally neurologically typical, we call this gap between his thought process and popular understanding as 'errors in the world.' We came up with the concept to try to teach him that most people may have a very different take of same events than he does and to both validate that his take was real and possible interpretation, but because most people would likely not share that interpretation, he would need to deal with their feelings and actions that is based on their interpretation.

Most people with clear neurological differences have very different thought processes but there are also really a lot of people, who have some issues with this, but who mostly function well. For example Ache's girlfriend really do not consider that someone's appearance should be a factor in workmarket if it has no direct correlation to the job. She is aware it does, but she finds it offensive and does not want to buy into it. Let's just say that she has very striking, unique and original appearance that you do not often see in business world. She thinks that if someone will not hire her because of that, it is their loss. At this time she is still getting away with it. She may need to consider later if she wants to be one of those who are hid behind the locked doors when ever the company has customers visiting (while they still are vital to the functioning of the company) or if she wants to have a different type of career; or if she finds the way to have her cake and eat it too. Well, she still has time, but I have to say I know a lot of people who have taken similar stance to formalities or customs they do not see a point of.

People who are manipulative are often very good at playing with these expectations. They do dress the part, they do utter apologises and show even excess remorse when expected, and say all the right words, because that is what works when you try to manipulate. Not saying the right things isn't manipulating, it tends to be genuine lack of understanding why the fuss. Again, it doesn't make it right, but it makes it genuine. If you are aiming for manipulation, you try to fulfill other's expectations for things like showing remorse instead of acting like you do not understand the problem.

 

[Copabanana]

I think part of the issue here is the difficulty for mothers in the transition of their D C from child to adult.

A 12 year old may have a tantrum. A 20 year old terrorizes with the same behavior. We as mothers may see it as the same behavior. Others do not.

Because we are accustomed to the misbehaviors and tantrums of children, we see their behavior as young adults through the same lens. Others do not.

That is why our D C's need to go out in the world and experience the consequences of their behaviors...independent of us. Because it is in the real world that they have to live. Not with us.

It is painful to recognize how alone we are. That the real world of consequences is often our own family.

 

[Echolette]

When I was a kid I read a GREAT book called Mistress Malapert. It was about a young woman in Elizabethan England who wanted to be an actor, so she pretended to be a boy. She was very successful, but was eventually found out and suffered consequences. She thought they were too harsh. The theme of the book...if you cross boundaries, break rules or morays...you don't get to pick the consequences, or even the magnitude of the consequences. It isn't like paying a price...you don't get to weigh the price vs the action. You break the rules..some one else picks the consequences. That is life.

That was a valuable lesson for a young girl.

Just sharing.

Echo

 

[Jabberwockey]

They do stress a part, they do utter apologises and shot even excess remorse when expected, and say all the right words, because that is what works when you try to manipulate. Not saying the right things isn't manipulating, it tends to be genuine lack of understanding why the fuss.

Our son often doesn't express remorse as most of us would see it. The drive after the reunion was all about him being screwed over and not about how he scared his grand's. It was days ago and they should have been over it in his opinion. Granted, he may very well have been expressing remorse but in a way that we don't yet understand. I make no claims about being able to understand what goes on inside his brain! He does seem to genuinely not be able to understand what the fuss is about. And he is VERY much like Ache's girlfriend in that, not just business owners or managers, but people in general shouldn't judge him based on how he is dressed or how he looks.

 

[pasajes4]

How they look, dress, or act. My son is so much like yours. When something has happened and it is over...well it's "past tense" don't bring it up again. When someone does something to him he does not dwell on it, and he truly does not understand why people hang on to things for so long.

 

[Jabberwockey]

When someone does something to him he does not dwell on it, and he truly does not understand why people hang on to things for so long.

And here is where they differ. Our son will hold a grudge like nobody's business!! That's part of the reason Lil and I are so concerned about how the sibs did this. He is likely to hold a grudge about it for years.

 

[Childofmine]

There is a big wide net that we wove when our kids were born.

For many of us, completely removing that net is terrifying. Even when they are grown up and doing well.

When they are grown up and not doing well, it's almost unthinkable. Impossible. At first. After all, we are their parents, and we are "responsible for them."

Inch by inch, we learn that the net only keeps them from getting to where they have to get...in order to grow up.

Little by little, as we can, we take the net away. Until it is completely gone.

A lot of times, that looks like this: No contact for a while. None. Not any. Zero. No matter what.

We may even have to tell them don't call me at all for _______ days/weeks/months. Then, when they ignore that, and do it anyway, we don't answer.

How hard is that, friends? The hardest thing ever. And it feels and sounds so harsh and we want to find a "middle ground", after all.... We want to so badly. But DCs don't understand "middle ground." They see middle ground as the door is left a sliver open for them to wiggle through.

Everything we do that keeps adult kids being children ends up being really bad for them and for us.

I had to learn every bit of this the hardest, most awful way, inch by inch, since Difficult Child was in 7th grade and 13 years old, and now he is 26 years old. I will say that I still struggle with this, but I am 1000 times better than I was a year ago.

We can't even see what we are doing. We can't even name it, because to name it means we have to face that we must do the hardest thing we have ever done in our lives and it takes every bit of everything that we have to do it.

It's the highest and greatest love. And the hardest.

All of this is so, so hard to do, even the first time, and then to do it consistently, over and over again, until they finally learn that we have changed, and it's never going to be like it was, ever again.

And then, often, if we are lucky, they start to learn to rely on themselves. Again, inch by inch, little by little.

 

[Copabanana]

The drive after the reunion was all about him being screwed over and not about how he scared his grand's.

Granted, he may very well have been expressing remorse but in a way that we don't yet understand.

Possibly this is a defense against guilt. I think we need to consider this possibility.

My son as a child was very, very repentant. Too much. Sometime he would as if fold or crumble if reprimanded. It was like a theatre. Now he has turned this behavior into martyrdom, and deflects all responsibility to others, as perpetrators.

He has been unfairly treated.

Others not he are left holding the bag.

He can see what he did to cause others reactions against him. It is just that he does not want to take responsibility to change it. He wants his cake and to eat it to. We should all get over it. And give him another chance. He does not get that that gets tiresome. That after 6 million chances, people expect change.

Over and over I tell him. X does not feel it is his responsibility to take care of you. He works and feels that you should too, and pay your part as a man. What you think is fair and just may not seem so to others. They get to vote too, especially if you are in their house.

This all seems so elementary. Questions of power should be clear cut. Questions about responsibility, too. It seems obvious I did not in my own home take enough power. Clearly this must be the case.

My son does not seem to be motivated to change in response to feeling guilt or shame.

Then I can look at a another way and say this: It could be that he feels so much shame he cannot take it in to learn from it. I will think about that.

but people in general shouldn't judge him based on how he is dressed or how he looks.

There are adults who all their lives choose to act exactly as they want regardless of consequences. But they have means and livelihood that allows them to do so. Artists or prison inmates can be such people.

And me too when I want. I do exactly what I want irregardless of consequences.

Our D C's live in fantasy worlds where they believe, or at least express the belief that there should be no consequences for them. As if they want cause and effect to be separated. Or if they should be uniquely spared from natural consequences.

Again, this is why my child needs to be away from me, to the extent that I was responsible for allowing him to live in my world without consequences or mild ones. I am not the world. And this he needs to learn.

When someone does something to him he does not dwell on it, and he truly does not understand why people hang on to things for so long.

My son is so much like yours. When something has happened and it is over...well it's "past tense" don't bring it up again.

"That was the past," is one of my son's favorite expressions. For him, life is an infinite opportunity for do overs. He does not see how the consequences to many many do overs is that people tire out, and they change towards him.

He can always see how others could have done things better and different. Him, not so much, if at all.