Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I traveled all this way by train and he did not show.. I confirmed at the train station. He said he was leaving. He never did. He blames me. He turned off his phone. I'm devastated.
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He didn't show
- Thread starter Copabanana
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I am so sad for you and angry at him.
I think that maybe its finally time to stop going after him .There is no point if he isnt going to show. I still dont think its personal, but there is no reason why he cant show up even a bit late to see you. To not come at all and to blame you is unacceptable. I hate that he hurts you.
Try to find a way to have a peaceful night and decide what to say when he calls. You know he will call.
Hugs and more hugs and I am so sorry.
I think that maybe its finally time to stop going after him .There is no point if he isnt going to show. I still dont think its personal, but there is no reason why he cant show up even a bit late to see you. To not come at all and to blame you is unacceptable. I hate that he hurts you.
Try to find a way to have a peaceful night and decide what to say when he calls. You know he will call.
Hugs and more hugs and I am so sorry.
Kalahou
Well-Known Member
I only have a moment right now, and I can only comment from my own understanding of my own experience.
His being uncomfortable and pressured in the face of feeling he is not meeting those expectations is not what he wants to experience ---- and he does not want to feel whatever he anticipates may come across in my tone of voice or actions, as any criticism or disapproval or blame etc. This pushes him away more. He would rather struggle and suffer with the companions he feels comfortable with and who accept him as he is, than to feel pressured into associating with our family, where I think he feels he does not measure up.
I’m not sure if I expressed this the way I wanted to, as I’m still grappling with understanding these dynamics myself. It’s hard stuff, as we get through each new day.
Take care Copa. We understand and you are not alone.
There is a reason …. The reason my son does not show up in similar circumstances is because HE DOES NOT WANT TO. He really does not want to see me or talk to me. ( If he really did WANT to, he would.) …. I don’t think of this as anything personal against me …. Just that he does not want to. He may plan to do it with me ahead of time – (just to momentarily appease or humor me or think maybe he could ) … but at the moment of truth … HIS truth wins out …. he will do what he wants - No Show. He is his own person.
As for blaming you, when I think of this in relation to my son - what I think my son blames are my expectations (or what he perceives as my expectations. ) He knows very well what I would like to see happen with and for him (even though I have given up expectations , he still thinks I have them.) ---- He knows himself that he will not meet those perceived expectations.
His being uncomfortable and pressured in the face of feeling he is not meeting those expectations is not what he wants to experience ---- and he does not want to feel whatever he anticipates may come across in my tone of voice or actions, as any criticism or disapproval or blame etc. This pushes him away more. He would rather struggle and suffer with the companions he feels comfortable with and who accept him as he is, than to feel pressured into associating with our family, where I think he feels he does not measure up.
I’m not sure if I expressed this the way I wanted to, as I’m still grappling with understanding these dynamics myself. It’s hard stuff, as we get through each new day.
Agree.
Take care Copa. We understand and you are not alone.
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CareTooMuch
Active Member
Awe Copa, the thing is it's not in your control, you know that in your heart. I'm so sorry he keeps on letting himself down. Most of our kids don't know how to help themselves and that is just sad to us. But we have our lives to live and we HAVE to do that as much as we can. HUGS!
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
M thinks this is a power struggle. That my son will NEVER meet me because if he does he will not be able to dominate the situation, and this is what this is about. M says my son wants to return to our town, and our property, imposing his rules. All the marijuana he wants, paying the quantity of rent he wants, when he wants, being slovenly in the property, ignoring his health and mental health. And that's it. And barring the return to HIS rules, he will not meet me, because to do so would be to cede. And he won't. Because he does not want to change. And that it is me who does not want to accept this. So that's what M says.
M says my son DOES NOT want to be in the metro where he is, that he only goes there, when I refuse to accept any longer his behavior, and he has no choice, but to go. For some reason the amenities for homelessness are better there, or maybe because his friend is helping him.
If my son did not have the health issue, I think I might cede. If he cared for his health when he was with me, it would be one thing. But he does not.
I think I will finally go to Al Anon this next week. Sick at heart is what I am. I feel like a stupid fool. Thank you all for your support.
M says my son DOES NOT want to be in the metro where he is, that he only goes there, when I refuse to accept any longer his behavior, and he has no choice, but to go. For some reason the amenities for homelessness are better there, or maybe because his friend is helping him.
If my son did not have the health issue, I think I might cede. If he cared for his health when he was with me, it would be one thing. But he does not.
I think I will finally go to Al Anon this next week. Sick at heart is what I am. I feel like a stupid fool. Thank you all for your support.
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I am not there. And I don't have the same front seat M and you have had. From only what you share, J puzzles me. I can understand the lust for pot because it is everywhere. What I dont understand is why he isnt afraid of the Hep B. That is a big ??? to me.
I am so terribly sorry about this sad happening.
I am so terribly sorry about this sad happening.
newstart
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry to hear this news Copa. In another post you said you feel like a stupid fool. I have felt the full blunt of feeling like a 'stupid fool' and one time when I got pushed just so far this stupid fool, idiot, got this strength to fight back with all my might and competely cut my daughter off for 3 months. It was the deep feeling of 'stupid fool' that I am grateful for because it made me take action to make the madness stop. It is horrible and not healthy to feel like a stupid fool, it is painful, stressful and harms self esteem.. I hope you put your feelings of feeling like a stupid fool to action and jump above and start feeling like a lovely kind human being not being a punching bag anymore. I pray strength and divine guidance for you to make this madness stop.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I don't understand any of it. I don't know really if I agree with M. When he says what he said, I listen and it makes sense. And then a little time goes by, and I am confused again.
I think he suppresses his fear. I think his Body Dysmorphic Disorder could be a result of his displacing his fear and horror of his illness, onto his appearance.
My begging him to meet me, which is really what I am doing, whether or not I do it with words, is really about his coming home. I want him to come back. I fear it, yes. But I want him back here. When I imagine what it will be to meet him, I imagine it as deciding how he could come back. And when he says he wants to meet me, in my mind it is because he wants to come back.
I have to stop this. I really do. This is so very painful. Thank you.
toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Oh Copa I am so sorry. I do not think you are a stupid fool! Not at all. You love your son and you are desperately trying to set some reasonable boundaries and at the same time let him know you love him endlessly.
I think M has a point. I do think your son has a purpose in his not showing up. In his own way he is trying to control the situation and direct what you do.
I so think its important you keep holding your boundaries and find a wait for him to be ready to work within them. I know that is easier said than done since there is no telling of or when that will happen.
Its back to taking care of you.
TL
I think M has a point. I do think your son has a purpose in his not showing up. In his own way he is trying to control the situation and direct what you do.
I so think its important you keep holding your boundaries and find a wait for him to be ready to work within them. I know that is easier said than done since there is no telling of or when that will happen.
Its back to taking care of you.
TL
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Who can make sense of anything these adult kids do?
Copa, this is maddening and cruel. Why have you travel all the way there, only to once again, not show, blame you and turn his phone off? To pull the rug out from under you, keep you guessing, make you feel a fool?
It’s indecent and unacceptable. There could be any number of psychological reasons behind his behavior, but plain and simple, it’s just damn abusive. You deserve better.
I’m sorry, it makes me mad.
Leaf
Copa, this is maddening and cruel. Why have you travel all the way there, only to once again, not show, blame you and turn his phone off? To pull the rug out from under you, keep you guessing, make you feel a fool?
It’s indecent and unacceptable. There could be any number of psychological reasons behind his behavior, but plain and simple, it’s just damn abusive. You deserve better.
I’m sorry, it makes me mad.
Leaf
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Your experience has made me think again about my contact with Tornado and my emotional descent into confusion and depression. Whether or not she meant what she said while she was locked up, it became just words. Words that I wanted to hear, to come true. “I want to be with my family again, with my kids.” “I will go to rehab.”
As you wrote “magic words”.
I began to think that maybe she could come home, maybe it would be better this time, maybe she is ready to change and being around family will make the difference. It took every bit of me to stop the train wreck of thoughts.
They reach in to the heart of us and stir our maternal instinct to go into magical thoughts that somehow what we say or do will have an impact on what their choices are.
Time and again it has become clear to me after the fact, that I become a moth to the flame of what my greatest wish for my two would be, for them to turn their lives around.
It’s not up to me, it’s up to them.
Magic words.
They know exactly what to say to get my head spinning and rattle my resolve to switch focus back to them.
Pulling at heart strings. Causing self doubt, feeling that there must be something I can do to make it better.
If these were not our own beloveds, we would have nothing to do with the circus.
That is the toughest thing of all, for us as mothers to see through the audacity of their actions, stand our ground and say no more.
I believe that if we don’t have enough respect for ourselves to stop the madness, they will continue to manipulate, gas light, use and abuse our emotions to try to get us to come to their terms. Accepting what their choices and consequences are, is different than denegrading our own lives, living up close and personal with it.
Two very hard roads to travel my friend.
The worry is always there, either way.
The work to switch focus to what we can control, ourselves, is always there.
No matter what you decide, please continue to make strides to take care of you.
I will do the same. It is imperative to place yourself as priority. For him and for you. He has to know that his mistreatment of you is unacceptable. It is Copa. No matter what the underlying reason, it’s unacceptable.
You matter. You have value and worth. Your time is precious.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
As you wrote “magic words”.
I began to think that maybe she could come home, maybe it would be better this time, maybe she is ready to change and being around family will make the difference. It took every bit of me to stop the train wreck of thoughts.
They reach in to the heart of us and stir our maternal instinct to go into magical thoughts that somehow what we say or do will have an impact on what their choices are.
Time and again it has become clear to me after the fact, that I become a moth to the flame of what my greatest wish for my two would be, for them to turn their lives around.
It’s not up to me, it’s up to them.
Magic words.
They know exactly what to say to get my head spinning and rattle my resolve to switch focus back to them.
Pulling at heart strings. Causing self doubt, feeling that there must be something I can do to make it better.
If these were not our own beloveds, we would have nothing to do with the circus.
That is the toughest thing of all, for us as mothers to see through the audacity of their actions, stand our ground and say no more.
I believe that if we don’t have enough respect for ourselves to stop the madness, they will continue to manipulate, gas light, use and abuse our emotions to try to get us to come to their terms. Accepting what their choices and consequences are, is different than denegrading our own lives, living up close and personal with it.
Two very hard roads to travel my friend.
The worry is always there, either way.
The work to switch focus to what we can control, ourselves, is always there.
No matter what you decide, please continue to make strides to take care of you.
I will do the same. It is imperative to place yourself as priority. For him and for you. He has to know that his mistreatment of you is unacceptable. It is Copa. No matter what the underlying reason, it’s unacceptable.
You matter. You have value and worth. Your time is precious.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
elizabrary
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry Copa. I know how much this kind of thing sucks. Please do something special for yourself. You deserve it. In my experience when my daughter starts treating me like sh*t it is because she has really gone off the rails. She is either drinking again or with some huge loser of a guy or off her medications and spiraling. I think she uses it as a good way to keep me at arm's length because she knows I will distance myself when she behaves this way, so less of a chance I figure out what's going on. Regardless of why they behave this way there are times when we all need a break from the insanity. Taking a breather from your relationship with your son could give you some much needed perspective, as well as time to decompress and renew your energy and spirit. I'm sorry you're hurting, but remember none of this is your fault. The way someone treats you says everything about them and nothing about you. Sending love and positive energy your way.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
In many cases, especially with our kids addicted to hard drugs, I think it is partly mangled thinking plus anger that Mom wont take care of them by handing out money and letting them live at home. Even if they are dangerous. Then its "If you dont take care of my needs, @#&k you." They are too addicted to think logically and some were never nice people and the drugs didnt help that.
I dont see this with J. He is not addicted to cocaine or meth or heroin. He is not dangerius or a criminal in any way. I dont see what the point would be of a power struggle. He puzzles me very much.
Maybe M is right and he IS in a power struggle and wants to live at home with absolutely no expec- tations. But he cant even bargain if he wont show up to hear you out.
The very hard part is there are factors you cant know. There are many XXX factors with these kids. They are the things they don't want us to know. These XXX factors make having a total understanding impossible.
I think that sometimes we think it is about us when it could be about other stuff that is happening. It is impossible to make sense when we dont have a complete picture.
I hope M is back with you. It is hard to be alone sometimes.
I dont see this with J. He is not addicted to cocaine or meth or heroin. He is not dangerius or a criminal in any way. I dont see what the point would be of a power struggle. He puzzles me very much.
Maybe M is right and he IS in a power struggle and wants to live at home with absolutely no expec- tations. But he cant even bargain if he wont show up to hear you out.
The very hard part is there are factors you cant know. There are many XXX factors with these kids. They are the things they don't want us to know. These XXX factors make having a total understanding impossible.
I think that sometimes we think it is about us when it could be about other stuff that is happening. It is impossible to make sense when we dont have a complete picture.
I hope M is back with you. It is hard to be alone sometimes.
Copa, I feel so bad for you that he did this again. I understand the confusion about the “why” of it. It’s like if we can figure out why then we can figure out a way to change the outcome next time or at least understand this behavior that’s so foreign to us.
Just my feeling on this, I doubt very much that he has any kind of “long game” intentions. Like I don’t think he’s trying to wear you down until you just cave and give him whatever he wants. I feel that’s not happening because he doesn’t have a “long game” for anything else so why would he in this case.
The fact that he makes plans to see you seems to mean he wants to or at the very least believes he should meet with you. But considering he’s made plans a couple of times and flaked out at the last moment it would seem that until something changes for him outside of his relationship with you he’s not going to meet with you.
Only speaking from my situation, I feel I am a trigger for my son. I think when he has contact with me he feels all of the loss he has created for himself in his life, and then doesn’t feel good about himself. Even though I’m sure he knows I love him more than anyone else he also knows I have simple expectations of him that he’s fallen down on drastically. I believe that uncomfortable feeling then quickly morphs into why it’s all my fault so he doesn’t have to feel bad about himself. And then some chaos ensues.
I have tried and failed with my son so many times, if you are a fool then I’m a senior member of that club. I’ve finally figured out that I can’t do anything to help my son. He will accept no guidance from me, none, and actually will fight against anything I suggest. So I’ve dropped the rope, no more tug of war, I am trying very hard not to get pulled back in. All I have left is to pray to my higher power to send some guidance in the form of a person who can actually have a positive influence on him. Sounds like a pretty slim chance when I write it down but then I’ve seen my son bring so much luck to himself over the years I think there could be a pretty good chance. Just like your son, people seem to like my son and come through for him in ways that have surprised me, especially because he’s been such jerk to me in the last few years.
I hope you have a way of distracting yourself so you can get some space to have some peace. At these times I tell myself no matter what I do for myself it’s not going to make things worse for him.
Just my feeling on this, I doubt very much that he has any kind of “long game” intentions. Like I don’t think he’s trying to wear you down until you just cave and give him whatever he wants. I feel that’s not happening because he doesn’t have a “long game” for anything else so why would he in this case.
The fact that he makes plans to see you seems to mean he wants to or at the very least believes he should meet with you. But considering he’s made plans a couple of times and flaked out at the last moment it would seem that until something changes for him outside of his relationship with you he’s not going to meet with you.
Only speaking from my situation, I feel I am a trigger for my son. I think when he has contact with me he feels all of the loss he has created for himself in his life, and then doesn’t feel good about himself. Even though I’m sure he knows I love him more than anyone else he also knows I have simple expectations of him that he’s fallen down on drastically. I believe that uncomfortable feeling then quickly morphs into why it’s all my fault so he doesn’t have to feel bad about himself. And then some chaos ensues.
I have tried and failed with my son so many times, if you are a fool then I’m a senior member of that club. I’ve finally figured out that I can’t do anything to help my son. He will accept no guidance from me, none, and actually will fight against anything I suggest. So I’ve dropped the rope, no more tug of war, I am trying very hard not to get pulled back in. All I have left is to pray to my higher power to send some guidance in the form of a person who can actually have a positive influence on him. Sounds like a pretty slim chance when I write it down but then I’ve seen my son bring so much luck to himself over the years I think there could be a pretty good chance. Just like your son, people seem to like my son and come through for him in ways that have surprised me, especially because he’s been such jerk to me in the last few years.
I hope you have a way of distracting yourself so you can get some space to have some peace. At these times I tell myself no matter what I do for myself it’s not going to make things worse for him.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you everybody. Thank you Deni and SWOT, Eliza, Albatross, Nomad, Caretoomuch, OZ, KT'smom, Newstart, Kalahou and Everybody.
Today M and I had a conversation about hard drugs. I stated that I feared J had turned to hard drugs. Because I am seeing from him exactly the kinds of behaviors the mothers here describe of their addicted children. (I am thinking specifically of New Leaf, here. Sadly and unfortunately, for both of us.) And M said he had long feared this, primarily because of the way J runs through money. M said there is no way he could run through money the way he does, absent more expensive drugs. M thinks that there is a greater than fifty percent chance J has been using hard drugs for some time.
We also revisited the idea of J's coming home without conditions. M's way of looking at it was that J would live with him and that he could determine just what is going on. So my reply: And then what am I going to do?
Because as M says, J coming home would likely put me in an early grave. As the train approached the station yesterday (even before I knew he wasn't coming) I began to feel the horrible pain in my stomach that had become chronic when dealing with him up close.
So the way it was left this morning, is that I will not think about it.
But I seem unable to stop myself. I agree with all of this:
Where I am right now is here: I am seeing this as a spiritual process for me. That yesterday I fell into a tunnel of despair, but within it I found the light at the end. I just have to keep doing this. Finding the light.
Until (and if) my son decides to ask for help I do not think I can reach back to him.
I have some regret that I did not let him come home last month when he wanted to. (When I said I'd call the cops if he showed up on my doorstep.) I keep insisting that he accept that I have some boundaries, and some right to voice about my life and space. That is how these attempted visits come about--so that I could have some consent, some acknowledgement by him of responsibilities.
I am seeing that the operative word here is that I ACCEPT and OWN that I have a right to boundaries and voice. That this right HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS assent or his doing anything or saying anything at all.
I go to a place where I feel that my protection, even my bodily integrity is contingent upon somebody else. I do not think that my son is the original transgressor. But he steps into it.
Until I can get a handle on this, there is no space for my son in this conversation. That is clear. I cannot help somebody if my own house is not in order.
This is complicated stuff, this quicksand. Thank you all very, very much.
No. M is not back living with me, but he does visit nearly everyday (he's been here today for coffee, and I make dinner for him nearly everyday) and I go visit him. It is hard to be alone.
Today M and I had a conversation about hard drugs. I stated that I feared J had turned to hard drugs. Because I am seeing from him exactly the kinds of behaviors the mothers here describe of their addicted children. (I am thinking specifically of New Leaf, here. Sadly and unfortunately, for both of us.) And M said he had long feared this, primarily because of the way J runs through money. M said there is no way he could run through money the way he does, absent more expensive drugs. M thinks that there is a greater than fifty percent chance J has been using hard drugs for some time.
We also revisited the idea of J's coming home without conditions. M's way of looking at it was that J would live with him and that he could determine just what is going on. So my reply: And then what am I going to do?
Because as M says, J coming home would likely put me in an early grave. As the train approached the station yesterday (even before I knew he wasn't coming) I began to feel the horrible pain in my stomach that had become chronic when dealing with him up close.
So the way it was left this morning, is that I will not think about it.
But I seem unable to stop myself. I agree with all of this:
I am wondering if what J does not want me to see is that he is addicted to hard drugs.
Where I am right now is here: I am seeing this as a spiritual process for me. That yesterday I fell into a tunnel of despair, but within it I found the light at the end. I just have to keep doing this. Finding the light.
Until (and if) my son decides to ask for help I do not think I can reach back to him.
I have some regret that I did not let him come home last month when he wanted to. (When I said I'd call the cops if he showed up on my doorstep.) I keep insisting that he accept that I have some boundaries, and some right to voice about my life and space. That is how these attempted visits come about--so that I could have some consent, some acknowledgement by him of responsibilities.
I am seeing that the operative word here is that I ACCEPT and OWN that I have a right to boundaries and voice. That this right HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS assent or his doing anything or saying anything at all.
I go to a place where I feel that my protection, even my bodily integrity is contingent upon somebody else. I do not think that my son is the original transgressor. But he steps into it.
Until I can get a handle on this, there is no space for my son in this conversation. That is clear. I cannot help somebody if my own house is not in order.
This is complicated stuff, this quicksand. Thank you all very, very much.
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