He is Ramping up Please give me Strenght.

[Kathy813]

Thanks for sharing the article. Information is always good although I found myself shaking my head when I read it. It implied that all we have to do is accept our children's addictions and then they will turn around and ask for help and get sober.

It is entirely possible that he would have asked for help whether she kissed him and sent him off to shoot up or not.

Tough love has never been about shunning, shaming, or turning our backs to our troubled loved ones. It is about stopping enabling behavior on our part that keeps them from experiencing the consequences of their addiction. It is setting firm boundaries with love and being strong enough to let them fall.

Sadly, there are times we have to cut off contact if our loved ones are abusive to us. Even that is an act of letting them feel the consequences of their actions. If you don't treat people well, they don't want to be around you.

Just my point of view . . .

 

[Littleboylost]

Thanks for sharing the article. Information is always good although I found myself shaking my head when I read it. It implied that all we have to do is accept our children's addictions and then they will turn around and ask for help and get sober.

It is entirely possible that he would have asked for help whether she kissed him and sent him off to shoot up or not.

Tough love has never been about shunning, shaming, or turning our backs to our troubled loved ones. It is about stopping enabling behavior on our part that keeps them from experiencing the consequences of their addiction. It is setting firm boundaries with love and being strong enough to let them fall.

Sadly, there are times we have to cut off contact if our loved ones are abusive to us. Even that is an act of letting them feel the consequences of their actions. If you don't treat people well, they don't want to be around you.

Just my point of view . . .

Agree Kathy when I was struggling with my reality I discussed his article with my therapist. She raised an eyebrow and said CRAFt is lovely ....of it works and a whole lot of factors need to be aligned. She indicated we're not there with our son (she has seen him also).
I had so many people guide me and advise me and say tough love time. Cut him off kick him out. Tell him you don't want to se him again until he is clean and sober....
I agree detaching with love and compassion is my version of tough love as well.
At this time I was deluding myself that my son was stealing from me. That was until he started stealing larger sums of money and other things. Reality Check.

 

[Littleboylost]

Agree Kathy when I was struggling with my reality I discussed his article with my therapist. She raised an eyebrow and said CRAFt is lovely ....of it works and a whole lot of factors need to be aligned. She indicated we're not there with our son (she has seen him also).
I had so many people guide me and advise me and say tough love time. Cut him off kick him out. Tell him you don't want to se him again until he is clean and sober....
I agree detaching with love and compassion is my version of tough love as well.
At this time I was deluding myself that my son was stealing from me. That was until he started stealing larger sums of money and other things. Reality Check.

Just adding as well. My son is a loving and caring boy. Even in the heat of all of this chaos I get texts of remorse and I love yous. He is just so lost. I have to keep my guard up because half of the time they come with manipulations attached.

 

[pigless in VA]

....or pretty coulourful hand grenades

That made me laugh, LBL. It is so wonderful having Ferb away from us now, that I cannot imagine ever having him live with me again. I just can't handle the drama. Each of us has to choose the path that we can live with.

 

[RN0441]

I think they do love us and their behaviors has nothing to do with that. I've never felt our son didn't love us - well maybe in the very beginning because I was so freaked out that all kind of thoughts ran through my head.

I honestly would even have believed he was abducted by aliens and had an implant - that's how different he acted!!

 

[New Leaf]

a hiki i kou la mau alohi

May your day be filled with glorious light as well, LBL. You olelo Hawaii? Hoku is my translator, she went to an awesome project based Hawaiian charter school.
Wish I knew more, as it is a wonderful language.
Tornado went as well, she has forgotten for the moment, what she learned.

Just adding as well. My son is a loving and caring boy. Even in the heat of all of this chaos I get texts of remorse and I love yous.

I am glad that at least you have this. I have not "seen" my two in such a long time. Oh, there are glimpses here and there, but they quickly slip away into erratic behaviors.

I think they do love us and their behaviors has nothing to do with that. I've never felt our son didn't love us - well maybe in the very beginning because I was so freaked out that all kind of thoughts ran through my head.

Thank you for reminding me of this RN. I suppose deep inside my two do love me. Those thoughts that they don't love me do pervade when the drug induced insanity prevails. I think, too, that thought becomes a protection, a heart guard.

I honestly would even have believed he was abducted by aliens and had an implant - that's how different he acted!!

I imagine mine body snatched by drugs. But then, I have to remember Viktor Frankls talk
(Copa introduced us to this marvelous man)
Viktor Frankl & Man's search for meaning
So, I try not to "make them as they really are" that is sinking in despair and not hoping. It does not mean that I think I have the responsibility to make them what they should, or could be, it means I can still see their spark, presuppose it. I can project in my mind their potential, and see that there is a way for them to reach it. Staring at the reality of it, woke me up to begin a journey to stop enabling, but that reality also has a way of dragging me down.

It doesn't always work, (gulp) as the days, months and years go by, but, looking at the ugly reality of how they are existing now, can be exhausting.
So, I started calling them "wayward".
When people ask me how they are doing, I say, "They are finding their way."
Not always, as episodes of their present reality can come spilling out at times.
True potential is there for all of our beloveds.
They have to see it and want it.
I have come to realize that my desperately wanting it for them, then, engaging in the spin of trying to reach it for them does not work.

But, I can project it for them in my heart, thoughts and prayers. I can be more positive about it, become an idealist. It doesn't weaken my resolve to step out of their way to think this. I know by history that I am not the one to "help" bring this about. That's okay, it is within them.

It is a beautiful, calm, cool and star filled morning.

I missed my walk today, but I think that I needed more to sit with my thoughts, post and reflect on Frankls message.

My Tornado learned the Hawaiian way of navigation, stargazing and sailing. She has come across dark, storm filled nights, but has it in her to find her way.

All of our d cs do.

I think that the more we continue to suffer the consequences of their choices, the more we stand in their way of finding their potential.

I dug in to my toolbox yesterday, remembering my Dads six year journey with illness and his reliance on his mentor, the Greek philosopher Epictetus.

"We cannot control our external circumstances, but we can always choose how we respond."

Life is short, it is beautiful and hard, all at the same time.

Finding my way, and my true potential is important, and the only thing I have some control over.

As Kalahou reminds us, "It is a new day."

May we all find our potential and learn to live to the fullest.

Even in the face of this.

We owe it to ourselves, and to our beloveds, to lead by example.

Peace and joy be with you all.

(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Littleboylost]

May your day be filled with glorious light as well, LBL. You olelo Hawaii? Hoku is my translator, she went to an awesome project based Hawaiian charter school.
Wish I knew more, as it is a wonderful language.
Tornado went as well, she has forgotten for the moment, what she learned.
I am glad that at least you have this. I have not "seen" my two in such a long time. Oh, there are glimpses here and there, but they quickly slip away into erratic behaviors.

Thank you for reminding me of this RN. I suppose deep inside my two do love me. Those thoughts that they don't love me do pervade when the drug induced insanity prevails. I think, too, that thought becomes a protection, a heart guard.
I imagine mine body snatched by drugs. But then, I have to remember Viktor Frankls talk
(Copa introduced us to this marvelous man)

So, I try not to "make them as they really are" that is sinking in despair and not hoping. It does not mean that I think I have the responsibility to make them what they should, or could be, it means I can still see their spark, presuppose it. I can project in my mind their potential, and see that there is a way for them to reach it. Staring at the reality of it, woke me up to begin a journey to stop enabling, but that reality also has a way of dragging me down.

It doesn't always work, (gulp) as the days, months and years go by, but, looking at the ugly reality of how they are existing now, can be exhausting.
So, I started calling them "wayward".
When people ask me how they are doing, I say, "They are finding their way."
Not always, as episodes of their present reality can come spilling out at times.
True potential is there for all of our beloveds.
They have to see it and want it.
I have come to realize that my desperately wanting it for them, then, engaging in the spin of trying to reach it for them does not work.

But, I can project it for them in my heart, thoughts and prayers. I can be more positive about it, become an idealist. It doesn't weaken my resolve to step out of their way to think this. I know by history that I am not the one to "help" bring this about. That's okay, it is within them.

It is a beautiful, calm, cool and star filled morning.

I missed my walk today, but I think that I needed more to sit with my thoughts, post and reflect on Frankls message.

My Tornado learned the Hawaiian way of navigation, stargazing and sailing. She has come across dark, storm filled nights, but has it in her to find her way.

All of our d cs do.

I think that the more we continue to suffer the consequences of their choices, the more we stand in their way of finding their potential.

I dug in to my toolbox yesterday, remembering my Dads six year journey with illness and his reliance on his mentor, the Greek philosopher Epictetus.

"We cannot control our external circumstances, but we can always choose how we respond."

Life is short, it is beautiful and hard, all at the same time.

Finding my way, and my true potential is important, and the only thing I have some control over.

As Kalahou reminds us, "It is a new day."

May we all find our potential and learn to live to the fullest.

Even in the face of this.

We owe it to ourselves, and to our beloveds, to lead by example.

Peace and joy be with you all.

(((HUGS)))
Leafy

My dear Leafy

I am staying still and quiet with my thoughts today. It is something I struggle with of late. To meditate and seek calm in the midst of chaos. Iately if I sit with my thoughts I become full of anxiety and fear. I am retraining myself to be present and calm. The dogs really help. Man can they do this well!

Victor is one of my heros. I keep very few books that I read, but his I kept. The fact that he, starving and so frail, came to the conclusion that the Nazis could not take from him who he was. And the tremendous power that gave him to survive!

I pulled upon this in times of financial crisis and indeed in times with my AC. Especially when I wanted to strike out in anger against those who label and judge me or my child. I resign myself to the simple fact that their opinion of me is none of my business. I learn to react in the spirit of who I truly am and this is my power. Not perfect and I do lose my mind now and again, as we all do. Improvement and survival not perfection.

Copa a wise introduction you have made here.

My tool box is much heavier and my heart is far lighter since I have come to journey this path with you all.

I so wish I could speak the beautiful language of Hawaii. It sounds like music to me. I was fortunate enough to be in Hawaii for 4 days once many years ago. Only in and around Honolulu. We will go back some day, somehow. Google translate is a lovely friend.

I have no affinity for language I studied French for years and speak it very poorly. I am dyslexic and languages don't like to stick. I admire this quality in my husband, he can speak several languages.

Peace calm and breathing are the order of my morning. Being in the now.

This afternoon is a whole other ballgame, that game has not started yet.

Your children have been consumed by the hungry ghosts of addiction and pain. I used to get angry at Gabor Mattes definition of addiction and it's cause. I would arrogantly think how could my child be in so much pain as to become an addict! I was a good mother! I now realize his pain is not about me or what I did; his pain is his and his addiction is his. I understand that now.

I still feel that addiction is a MH disorder and a brain disease, so some of what Gabor says I agree with. Some I do not. I take what I need and leave the rest.

Addiction Book: Dr. Gabor Maté In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts

The book is a very good read.

 

[Sam3]

RN

I read Mans Search for Meaning, when it kept being referenced here. So many passages, I underlined. But that clip is . . . inspiring.

 

[RN0441]

My dear Leafy

Addiction Book: Dr. Gabor Maté In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts

The book is a very good read.

Looks very interesting. Do you have on Kindle (so you can loan it to me) LOL

 

[Littleboylost]

Looks very interesting. Do you have on Kindle (so you can loan it to me) LOL

I do but it is not a lendable copy. Darn it. It's a good read. He has lots of lectures on line as well.
Gabor Mate: The Hungry Ghost

 

[Kathy813]

I just want to add that I have no problem with giving our loved ones Narcan in case they overdose. Narcan was administered to my daughter by the EMT's when she overdosed on heroin and it saved her life. If I was living with an addict I would definitely have it in my house. To me it is like having a defibrillator on hand if you live with someone with a heart condition.

 

[Littleboylost]

He made a pint of leaving it in the house. Oh well one can only try.

 

[Copabanana]

lbl. i really like the way gabor mate thinks. i find it compelling what he says about the number of vietnam vets who returned addicted , and shortly after recovered.

in a million years i never linked your son's drug use with parenting. except to say-you and i are alike in we have one child-an adored son. my son is everything to me. (i am incurable.)

from thousands of miles away i see your son as full of himself, immature and run amok from his very strong self-will. i truly believe he will work his way out of this.

gabor is little known here probably because of political reasons. i heard him speak on the leftist radio station.

 

[Littleboylost]

Copa
You insight into my son is heart warming. I am too close to the flames to see anything but disaster. Some day I hope that changes.

Only children, a blessing and a curse. We do always blame ourselves first.

I have learned so much from Gabor and his philosophies around addiction. Our vulnerability as parents makes us defensive. And I worked through that emotion over time.

He had dedicated his last years of medicine to treat the untreated and uncared for street and boarder line housed addicts of the DTES of Vancouver, that is one of the largest colonies of Herion Addicts in the world. His colleagues thought he was mad.

I do imagine that politics makes him an bad taste in the month for some. He is far left of left for some lol. He is a wise and kind soul who's research into addiction is truly ground breaking.

The way he speaks so compassionately of his patients is a genuine heart so rarely seen in medicine. He is so very right, we are taught nothing of addiction in school. I was fortunate enough to be mentored by wise caring older nurses who taught me so much about dealing with all people with equal care and compassion. We harboured street dwelling people in our ER hallways before pop up shelters became common place in the winter. When one young resident complained of the smell and said we should turn them all out. He was invited by the staff MD to stand outside for 5 minutes for some fresh air. It was minus 40C out. That was a good learning moment for all of us. Years along now and a building that used to house the nuns associated with the hospital is an outpatient resource centre by day and a temporary overflow shelter for cold nights. We do evolve if we try.

 

[Littleboylost]

Gabor Mate The Hungry Ghost The Biopsychosocial Perspective of Addiction Part 2
Also use search many of his lecture are on line.

 

[Copabanana]

can you believe he is 73? gabor's father was in a nazi forced labor camp and his maternal grandparents were killed by the nazis.

 

[Copabanana]

some reasearchers (like vanderkolk who is also an md) believe that we carry inter generational trauma. that our nervous systems can have a dysfunction to cause us to respond maladaptively to environmental triggers. and that such can be transmiited to us genetically.

while i have not yet heard mate speak in these terms, his focus on trauma, and his sensitivity to traumatic histories of groups of people, make me wonder if he shares this belief.

i am only lately learning of this and really find it compelling.

gabor seems like, in addition to his compassionate service, he might be working out his own history of intergenerational trauma through his work.

i think i have been. do you resonate with this?

 

[Copabanana]

lbl. have you met gabor mate? i mean. you're both in canada....

 

[Littleboylost]

I think that our genes are our genes however as Gabor believes and I think is scientifically proven; our environment plays a huge role in how we react and what we do. I believe it is an element of our environment, how we perceive that environment, our psychological capacity to manage the affect of our environment and our genetic predisposition. Sealed in there somewhere is the challenge of MH and Substance abuse.

My girlfriend had a diabetic brother who was a severe alcoholic. The way he describes his life and upbringing were polar opposite to my GFs interpretation. She had her challenges with failed marriages and the like but was a resilient successful person. Her brother squandered away the family business and died an early death from alcoholism and unmanaged diabetes.

There in this nugget of wisdom I began to understand this isn't about me, it isn't about my parenting; It is about my son and his perceptions of his life and how he copes or fails to cope with his pain.

I have heard Gabor speak at a medical conference and this was how I was first introduced to his work.

Yes 73! And he indeed has some Hungary ghosts and family trauma he is attempting to come to terms with. He is a true socialist, in the likes that Canada hasn't seen since Tommy Douglas. He believes Calitalism is what is tearing apart our counties and our families and hat they ar wa greater part of what is challenging our societies and causing increases in suicide and addiction. That is an interesting talk of his as well.

He feels we have neglected our families and our children for the sake of capital gain. I can't say that I disagree with him there.

 

[Copabanana]

lbl. i read qbout two sisters both writers. both about 70 now. lily and doris brett. actually, doris is a psychologist primarily. born in poland of a holocaust survivor family and immigrating to australia.

lily is the more famous one. huge feud. almost 40 years, about their experience of their mother and their common childhood which they saw as differently as night and day.

lily used her writing to explore holocaust pain and horror through the dysfunction of her mother who she said was ever depressed and rageful.

doris says mother was placid and ever loving. that it was lily who raged, terrorizing her. she began to write she says to defend her mother's memory.

i am completely estranged from my own sister. it is not that we see our lives differently but more as we perceive and experience each other. kind of like what you infer about your son and your own experience of each other , at least in the last few years.

except in your case i really do believe that there are not two fully functioning brains at play. due to immaturity your son is not playing with a full deck. his moral development is affected by this. his ability and willingness to take responsibility for actions and events. and the feedback loop of the drugs.

none of this speaks to his eventual capacity to one day live a full life. i believe he is like the grand majority of vietnam vets gabor deacribes whose addiction to heroin was circumstantial-- and who recovered.

of course life can intervene with these "normal" kids can before they mature and recover. (you see, i believe the preponderance of energy is towards health. ) but that is fate. we all of us deal with that fortunately for most they can remain oblivious. we cannot.