I acted on a suspicion

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lil, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I disagree.

    You are pointing out certain, not all, areas and schools.

    I think it's smart to protect their heads from concussions,

    Also, I was bullied badly in the 1960s and I didn't learn to shrug it off. Instead I got post traumatic stressed and trusted nobody.

    I also raised four kids, none damaged from school. Two were greatly helped. And I think all kids get criticised.

    My own opinion is that part of the problem, hardly all. Is that this days parents give them too many goodies and expect nothing in return. They get lazy and entitled. They get new card because " Gos forbid Johnny walk two miles" and we wonder why some are lazy and soft. Of course, this is not all parents.

    Personally I don't know any schools that took down the flag. But I can't see how a flag makes our kids better people. Most countries do not agree with our flag displays and the it kids are no worse than ours.

    Not all schools are trying to make all kids equally the same either. I never heard of that. At any rate, if they had done this in my day, I still would have known that Tommy was a high achiever and so wasn't. Kids aren't dumb. Very hard to fool.

    Every one has his own ideas. Nobody knows for sure. So this is all jump.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  2. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    My Dear, I think many of us go through this, feeling like we are losing our capabilities and sense of worth at work. I know I did about 5 years ago. Had a new young girl come in- man, she was fast at everything. You told her verbally how to do something and she did it. No notes, and remembered, brain like a steel trap. Not me, I am visual learner, I have to take notes. My boss is a great boss and have worked for him 20 years. Well this girl worked for him as well. Well he thought she was the best worker, bragged about her all the time how fast and good she was. Well, of course, I felt kicked to the curb, bit insecure, became self-conscious about my work and abilities.

    Fast forward, boss saw this girl for what she was- and what we were seeing when her true colors came out. She would sneak out early when he was in a meeting, she didn't deposit an 11 million dollar check when she left to do so, she then called in sick for two days. No check deposited, boss called, she swears she deposited it. Well another boss saw her come in that night and take the check out of her drawer. She was caught lying. Then she lied about her husband being in an accident, in the hospital. Well she got caught in that lie- she finally left as her husband got another job out of state. Boy, he rips her all the time now. What a con artist she was.

    Sooo, moral of the story, yeah, we get knocked off our socks as we age, new and younger people come in, seem faster and better then us old gals, but, looks can be deceiving.

    Go into work and shine, you are an expert in your field and don't let anyone shake your self worth at work. You haven't lost that Mojo!
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  3. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    I have a cousin who has a traumatic brain injury from riding his bike without a helmet. He has been in a wheel chair for the last 35 years. He can barely talk, and will never be able to work or take care of himself. He had a helmet, as he had had brain surgery the year before, but being a typical 16 year old kid who thinks that bad things are never going to happen to him, got on his bike without it one day.

    To me, helmets are a good thing. We wear them, and my kids wore them (that was difficult, they weren't the norm).
  4. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Cop a..





    Success!!!! :isorock:







    Remember...feelings aren't facts and all logical evidence point you you as a very big success.
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  5. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    In a daze, the very worst are those who ride motorcycles in street clothes (even shorts) and no helmet. Mr brother-in-law had a traumatic brain injury going slowly on his motorcycle on his own property. He hit a deer and spent months in rehab learning to talk,walk, and speak again. His brain swelled. He almost died. Would a helmet have helped?

    It was worth trying it. Couldn't have hurt.

    To this day, ten years later, he has memory problems.
  6. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    Of course not every single school in the country is pushing this agenda. But it is all over our country. East, West, North and South. I know for a fact it is here in my state. Big University in my state just finished building their safe building for people to go to feel safe from offense.

    Football concussion sure, wear a helmet. Kids riding a bike down the street, eh, not so much.

    I'm sorry you were bullied to that point. No doubt ongoing bullying is traumatizing to many kids. But everyone gets bullied. The point being, we are not teaching our kids how to handle it correctly. We will never be able to stop someone from saying someone is ugly or fat, or call you four eyes because you wear glasses. We are over sensitizing our children to any insult, any criticism. Two of my kids were over-weight, they got called names. You know what, they started running, watched what they ate. Lost weight. Point is they did something about their weight. I was a chunky kid too, got their genes from me.

    Remember I said, this began about 10 years ago so your kids that you raised and mine as well were not subjected to the new age social and educational thinking and teaching.

    Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Google it, you will find the states and articles regarding making sure things are equal in sports, no losers only winners, everyone plays. No trophies for winners, that's offensive. Removal of Valedictorian titles, reducing the GPA so they include 100's vs. 1 or 2 again so people don't feel bad that they didn't do better academically. Schools doing away with F grades. This again, gives kids opportunity to do the work assigned, with many chances to get it done with more time allowed. More and more chances to do what you are told to do- and if not, then you get more chances to do what you should have done to begin with. Again, coddling. Exampme, article below.


    Regarding the flag: When people become citizens of our country they take a pledge to honor and defend this country. It's a sign of respect. People died to protect that flag and the right for folks who want to honor it, display it, etc. Now people are attacked, sued for displaying that flag. So, there is a push to honor every countries flag. See article below as an example. It's done so no one gets offended. Again on a course to make sure no one is offended.

    By the way, two of my kids served in the military in Iraqi Freedom. I proudly display our flag on our porch and my two blue star Mom flag in the window of my house. I will not pledge allegiance to some other countries flag. My father was in the Korean War, my ex brother in law died in Vietnam, my grandfather served in Iwo Jima, WW2.

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  7. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    Of course helmets for motorcycles. I posted about kids riding down the street with full body armour on these days.

    I'm sorry about brother-in-law, I have a good friend that was hit on motorcycle and has brain injury.
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Sorry. I disagree. I'm sure there are schools that are different and do this but my daughter played sports from early on and was a sports rock star. Nobody ever won unless they won. I'm sure some schools do it differently, but as long as it stops on high school, I don't believe it is damaging. A little silly, not dangerous. The kids all know who really won.

    Bullying is even worse now. Name calling you can learn to deflect. It taught me unfortunately how to be mean back and to swear in order to intimidate the intimidators and it did teach me to never be a bystander around bullying. My kids picked up this trait too. Girls are getting beaten up now. Nobody is soft pedaling it. The cops are called. Nobody should be afraid to go to school.

    I have no problem not offending people. White people don't know what it's like to be a minority in this country, but no whites should be allowed to be called ethnic slurs either. Nobody needs to hear bigotry in my book, certainly not at school. I fail to see how teaching kids to be nicer and more tolerant of differences makes this a worse society. I won't agree that it does so agree to disagree.

    Ditto on failing to see how parents who don't want their kids to get hurt, especially concussions, is coddling kids. The truth about concussions is coming out and it's SCARY. this isn't what I consider helicopter parenting. To me this is common sense.

    My husband is a ten year Viet Nam vet and my youngest is going to school for law enforcement. Hub puts the flag out on American holidays. That he does this neither made my kids better or worse. They have all turned into good kids and I'd say three of them are great kids. Overly patriotic? No, not even husband who served for so long. We talk about the good and bad here. We thank vets for their service though. We appreciate them.

    I still think the problem with some kids us they were not taught to work for anything. But even under those conditions, many kids still turn into good adults. None of mine are soft or unable to deal with life and I was one of those moms who never spanked, etc

    I look around and can't point to one particular type of family that creates a less resilient child. I though no a lot is genetic. And every generation has always moaned that the good old days were better. Just ask Socrates. He said so too. That was quite awhile ago.

    I do respect your opinion as we all differ and that's why this forum is good. It's helpful to read different viewpoints. Usually you and I agree :)
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  9. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    My ex-brother in law was in a motorcycle accident. He flipped his bike and landed square on top of his head. His helmet saved his life but couldn't stop his spine from being compressed. He can't turn his head fully left or right now. While I sympathize and understand where people are coming from when it comes to repealing helmet laws, but I agree with the laws. They do save lives. Most children will ride bikes their entire childhood and never have an accident that will cause more than scrapes and bruises. The purpose of having them wear helmets is to keep them from being in that minority that DOES get severely injured.

    Its a FB meme, wish I could find it and will post it if I do. A sign in a grocery store proclaims that crackers LOVE cheese. The customers response " I prefer the term Saltine American and yes, I do love cheese!"

    No, I have no idea what its like to be a minority in this country. We need to quit focusing our attention on not offending anybody, its impossible, and remember how to be decent people. Sometimes offense is given without the person realizing that they have offended. Explain it to them so they understand and wont do it again and get over it. Understand that we aren't all from the same background so don't view things the same way. One of the things I've learned in Corrections is that, even within the state of Missouri, there are many different "cultures" to be learned about. Keep it basic. I'm from the country. We make eye contact and greet everyone we walk past on the street or in the store. Its considered polite. In the city its considered aggressive and could get you into a fight. Be a decent person, apologize and learn from your mistakes, and understand that not everybody is at the same place in learning a lesson that you are.
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  10. rebelson

    rebelson Active Member

    Same here, our American flag is hanging right from a post on our front porch. It's AMERICA for crying out loud.

    My father fought in the Iwo Jima/WW2 - a Captain in the Marines. RIP Papere.
  11. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Jabber, I can't think of one thing you said that I disagree with.

    Of course we can't never offend all people and often it's not on purpose.

    From my fascination with jail shows, I think nowhere is race more offensively utilised than in jails! And guess what? My daughter is thinking of working in a jail...that is one of two things she wants to do in law enforcement. I'm not worried about her if she chooses it. She is one tough cookie and very good at handling people.

    Jabber, you are a great asset here. Of course, everyone is, but having a man is helpful.

    On another note, I have nothing against anyone who hangs a flag out every day. I do think certain areas are more prone to doing it. I live in an area of Wisconsin that is pretty conservative, but mostly you just see flags out on American holidays.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  12. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Absolutely, you guys.

    My Mom was an LPN. She worked on a Neuro floor which also included a Neuro ICU. She would come home and sigh and say, "They brought in another young man today. He was on a motorcycle. He is in coma. His injuries are very severe." Of course hearing these stories again and again from her had a big impact on me, and I never would get on a motorcycle.

    Except the time we were on Mykinos on our honeymoon and we rode motor bikes through the mountains, but I think we were wearing helmets. Would never do that again...Lol.

    Wearing a helmet is not a symptom of overprotectiveness and overprotective parenting. Helmets save lives and prevent further injury.
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    You guys, I cannot keep up with these threads now, but want to respond to some of it to stay in the game.

    SWOT, I agreed with your entire post and I am glad and grateful you responded.
    Actually, my son DID go see the child/adult psychiatrist/psychoanalyst 2 weeks ago. The same man he saw beginning in 6th grade and who was in our life steadily until about 9 years ago. There is nobody better.

    For years I nagged my son to see Dr. B, and he did 4 years ago, but resisted until now. Why now? I am not sure. I think he understands it is in the best interests of maintaining SSI, to be open to treatment (although he resists medication.) I think he also does want to please me, to some extent, and listen to my viewpoint.

    I was grateful (very much so that he went) and hopeful. And yes, I do believe I need to acknowledge this very big step.

    I am unsure exactly why I respond/react the way I do. Fear? Wanting more and not being able to restrain it?
    Actually, SWOT, you know I am in partial denial he is in mentally ill-still do not want to accept it--want him to get over it. Is it kind, fair, patient, realistic, or an effective response? No.
    He is realistic, I am not.

    SWOT, you see, part of me is still feeling as if he is choosing this to some extent. And that if he were to decide a different way, he would feel better. I do understand that that is erroneous, to some extent. That he does not feel the range of choices at this point, that I believe are possible.

    For someone with both knowledge and empathy, it is pretty stunning that with respect to my own child...I take this attitude. Except I think this is not uncommon--this hits me where I live, so to speak.
    Of course it does, SWOT. But if I cannot and will not accept that he is mentally ill--really--of course I am not going to accept the consequences. I am going to make him do it--so that he will get over the mental illness. I know this is irrational and erroneous. Neither of these things seems to have stopped me.
    I have been mentioning this, and I will mentioning it again. Of course, you are right. What you are really saying, SWOT, is remember Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. He cannot (nobody can) get to the transcendent needs, without meeting the basic ones.

    But do you see, SWOT, I am trying to prod and beat him into disproving he is mentally ill. Am I saying I am right? Absolutely not. I am just saying the truth.
    Yes. You are both right. But you see, I cannot bear the pain of it. I cannot bear his pain...especially if he feels trapped and feels he cannot overcome it.
    It is completely irrational. I have tried to talk to him logically. He is a gorgeous man. Everybody thinks he is a heartthrob. He focuses on slight balding but he also feels ugly too. He developed this body dysmorphic disorder when he was 20 when his Hep B worsened (he was born with it.) Both of us freaked out. I think he transferred his anxiety, (and rage at his birth parents, from whom he acquired it) onto his appearance. Which is to say that I believe that his feelings about his appearance are functional for him--they serve a purpose.

    So, SWOT, when I came home tonight my son said to me this: I am sorry for our conversation last night. I have more perspective today. I am going to do what I can about a college course. I understand what you said and I want to try.

    Now, it may be lip service or not. Trying to please and placate and manipulate. Or not.

    I hear what you are saying SWOT. To lay off on the pressure and to not force him or pressure him to meet my goals. I see that.

    I did say to him: Son, M found a lighter in the yard and he fears you are smoking marijuana. Do you think your depressed mood last night was related to that?

    No. I have been trying to cut down my addiction to caffeine (he takes caffeine pills) and the caffeine withdrawal affects me the same way, to make me depressed.

    You see, SWOT, I do not want my son to be mentally ill. I am doing everything in my power to pressure him to change. I write this knowing that it is wrong and unrealistic. I seem to be unwilling to change.

    You know, I really love my son near me. I love that he is here. I can almost stand the part that he has no motivation or initiative and no goals that are realistic. *Except that I worry a great deal about when I die and his being unable to manage his affairs, or that he may be alone.

    What feels unbearable is when he is sad.
  14. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    I agree that the movement to increase children's self esteem by rewarding them and praising them at every opportunity instead of rewarding hard work and genuine effort has been harmful. This has been replicated in a few studies that I've read about.
    It's true that overparenting and hypersensitivity do exist. Severe, systemic bullying of a child is fortunately rarely tolerated in schools nowadays.I was a victim of this in high school, as was SWOT. Anyone who has experienced this I'm sure would be very supportive of any efforts a school will employ to stop such abusive, psychologically damaging behavior.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Copa (I hope my phone let's me type your handle even if my tablet won't lol) let me assure you that in one way we are alike. If kids are sad, ican't bear it. This is especially and then over it fast. true is Sonic and Jumper because they never act sad. If they show it, then it's bad and I cry with them. Bart and Princess are more emotional and can get surface upset and recover fast. But Sonic and Jumper.. it takes something deep down to get them upset and it lasts a while and my mother heart breaks. I have found I can cheer up Bart, Princess and Sonic, but Jumper has to get over it on her own. A helpless feeling for me.

    On the other hand, as much as I love my kids,vi want them independent and out there. It's healthier for them, I think. And if any were mentally ill, I could handle it.

    I think you, like the rest of us, all have to practice being different in some ways to be better for our loved ones. It is a universal need for one and all.

    Have a peaceful night!
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  16. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I understand this completely. My son often has periods of "I'm useless and ugly and no one will ever love me." Funny how we're "no one" huh? Jabber and I have been known to call them his, "Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I think I'll eat a worm" moods.

    Now, maybe it's manipulation. Maybe it's real. Maybe he really does feel like he's ugly and unlovable. But I can't stand them. If it's manipulation, it works. I literally feel my heart breaking if he sheds a tear, but just the words "I'm ugly and useless" KILLS me! My son is not movie-star handsome, but he's FAR from ugly. Even with his horrible teeth that are his own damn fault ($5000 for braces and he let them get crooked again and won't even brush :mad:) he's still a good-looking young man!

    In a way, you and I are very alike, in that we both, to some extent, feel like our son's choose this. Now, most people think mine does, but there is this tiny part of me that says, "Maybe he can't help it." It's the same piece that says, "Maybe he's innocent." But in the end, I still feel like he can STOP feeling like this. He can STOP feeling useless if he just stops being useless. He can stop feeling ugly if he'll just take a bath, brush his teeth, cut his hair and look presentable! So yes, your way of handling this is to ignore it. My way is to nag. Neither seem to work. Maybe we should trade kids? :giggle:
  17. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    This is so true. Some claim that the most important of the 12 steps is the last one, which is the step of action, of actively sharing and giving and serving others. I believe this is so very true for all people.

    We have to get outside ourselves. The way to do that is to do something for somebody else, freely, gladly and without any thought of anything in return.

    It changes everything. It creates gratitude.
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  18. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Our suspicion is rekindled. Yesterday I gave son a ride to work at 10:45, went to the doctor, at 12:15 I didn't see him as I went back to the office. (When I mentioned it later he said he was taking a break.) At 4:00 he told me he wouldn't need a ride home. At 5:10 he was at a friends house near where I work.

    Today Jabber got off work early and our son's water bottle and ear buds are at the house. Now, he could have been running late and forgot them in his haste to get to the bus.

    But Jabber is going by his work to see if he's there. It sucks to have to worry about this stuff. Is he working? If he's not there, is he on lunch? Is he lying to us?:sigh:
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  19. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    ...aannnddd here we go again.

    He's not working today. He says he called them. He says that they may have another employee and therefore hours are messed up. He points out that he never specifically said that he was working today.


    Well if nothing else, he's making it easier for me every day to be ready to say, "You screwed around and now you're gone."
  20. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Lil, You are playing my song...singing my life with my son to a T. Worst song in the world....despair, heartache, confusion, throe in a truck, a beer, and a dog and you will have a country hit.
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