I am sad and desperate and hopeless again

Baggy Bags

Active Member
I am a party girl. Started getting drunk when I was 13. My mother was the first person to offer me pot at 15, but Nancy Reagan was still in my head, so I said "No" and was very offended she would offer her daughter drugs. She was so cool, I was so uptight... Then I caved. First with cigarettes (my mother smoked pregnant, so I it was double whammy addictive for me), then pot. I was afraid of harder stuff and didn't try anything else until I was in my 20's. And I never, ever tried anything cocaine-related or anything injected. I was very, very clear about this. Also, the more I smoked pot, the less I wanted alcohol. After being an alcoholic teenager, I barely drank in my 20's.

I told my kid all about our genetic disposition from the time he could talk. As a child, seeing how addicted his grandmother is to nicotine, and having watched me struggle to quit my own 20-year, pack-a-day habit (7 years free this month!), he would talk about how he would never touch any of it.

My son tried pot, DMT, MDMA, LSD and cocaine by the time he was 14yo. I was homeschooling him at the time. We were sooooo close, but I couldn't see it. I saw him changing, but really couldn't believe he'd do drugs like that after ALL the information I gave him. I knew he was smoking pot, but trusted that it was infrequent. I always told him to wait until his brain was fully developed, and that if he wasn't going to wait, to please tell me, and that I rather he bring his friends here than they do it in the street (it is not legal here). I had NO IDEA he was smoking every day and doing all the other stuff. He was retaining what we were learning, doing well enough with algebra, memorizing history facts...

DMT is a very hard-core trip. I was 30 when I tried it, and it was a lot for the mind to deal with at that age, so I can't even imagine how a 14yo brain handles it. Sometimes I think that these drugs can open spiritual channels, and that younger people are especially vulnerable to energies/spirits that can come "in" through these channels. That's on my agnostic days. On my atheist days, I know that these drugs can be catalysts for dormant mental disorders.

I was angry at my life-long sacred plant medicine for harming my boy. I had never heard of cannabis-induced psychosis, until it happened to my own child. But I came to understand that it is not the plant's fault, the illness was already there, it just brought it to the surface. Maybe my son could have lived his life without this monster being awakened, but chances are, something in life (if not drugs) would have eventually.

Marijuana is very different for different people. I'll never forget talking to an extremely religious (Opus Dei) mother who actually acknowledged that her teen son was calmer and more manageable when he smoked weed. Can you imagine what she had to go through to be okay with this? But she is now.

For some of us, this plant is a more natural alternative to other medication. I'm pretty sure I'd be on anti-depressants my whole life otherwise. I'm grateful that the plant helps me with this, but I know it doesn't work the same for everyone. I don't get sleepy or lazy. I get focused, motivated, and have a much easier time focusing on the positive.

I'm sharing this with fear of judgment, in case it helps anyone understand a loved one's pot habit. If it doesn't make them psychotic or paranoid, maybe it is helping them.

Copa, I know that it is nearly impossible for us to watch our kids sit around (smoking pot), being lazy, not doing what (we think) they need to do. But if the pot use is the main thing keeping you from letting him back (I have to say that my heart lights up a little when you talk about taking him back, which might just be me projecting my own dream of my son coming back, but it does resonate), maybe you could try to change the way you look at pot, just a little, just enough to be okay with him smoking it out of your sight. Light incense. Try not to focus on it. Maybe it is helping, like it does with this other woman's friend, and several other kids I know about.

There was a time when L and I would fight about opening the curtains in his room. Then the therapist told me that there was something about a depressed teen's brain that "needs" darkness. I don't know if that's true, but it helped me stop fighting about the curtains. The curtains were the least of my problems, but I needed someone's permission to let it go so that every time I saw him in his dark room with no sunlight coming through, I wouldn't feel like I was a terrible mother.

Hugs all around. The stuff we've been through. Jeez.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
My son will not meet me after all. I woke up to a text sent at 4 am that he was going to the big city to meet some guy who somebody told him could "help me with my problems." I have been giving him any number of leads about where he can get help, or find resources...but he will not follow up on anything I say. He has to do it his way.

I have to say I am sad. But at the same time I slept badly, and was frightened at night, and woke up fearful that I would get panicked again.

So. I guess this is the right thing for now. At least for today. I am grateful he let me know he would not be there.

Baggy. I want to address your sense you might be judged.

People come to this forum in crisis. Sometimes the crisis has gone on so long that the crisis has congealed into a lifestyle. Of fear, bitterness, rigidity. Some of us change into reactive, and even judgmental people, in a perpetual startle response, with respect to our beloved children.

I know I have been among the most open-minded of people. And now? Not so much. I seem to have turned into a suffragette marching with a Demon Rum sign. I have to have something to hold culpable, as responsible, so as to not be crushed by fear and regret and guilt. And if I focus on this one thing, marijuana, my demon rum, there comes to be a chance, that there can be normalcy once again. Paradise regained.

None of this has anything to do with anybody else except for my own struggle to deal with our circumstances. There is no judgement here.
Sometimes I think that these drugs can open spiritual channels, and that younger people are especially vulnerable to energies/spirits that can come "in" through these channels. That's on my agnostic days. On my atheist days, I know that these drugs can be catalysts for dormant mental disorders.
When I was a very young woman, I lived in Berkeley and near Haight Ashbury. While I was not a party girl, I did experiment a couple of times with Mescaline which was like LSD. I don't know if people anymore know what Mescaline is. I don't hear the term lately.

Anyway. on one of the trips we were driving from San Francisco to Santa Cruz. I remember my friends needing to restrain me from throwing myself off a cliff on the Pacific Coast Highway. When I used any type of drug, especially, a mind-altering drug, I descended into chaos. Terror. It would be many years before I would learn why.

That this was my baseline, this terror and chaos, that I struggled to suppress my whole life and to override with achievement. Maybe had I been older, had more support, more resources, I could have used this revelation to integrate and master these feelings and perceptions and structure and inform my life. And I could have lived a vastly different life.

But I was none of those things. I was young, without support, and without personal resources, but intensely ambitious for myself. Except for the latter, like the difficult children represented on this board.

That said, I agree wholeheartedly about the spiritual channels that are sometimes opened up by these substances. There are gifted people, with support, with community, with structure, who are able, unlike me, to travel this expanded path, and to bring it back to enrich their personal experience and our shared world. But they are not our kids. Who are more like I was. I would never ever again use a strong drug.

But the reality here is nobody has any control. Not with our kids or anybody else. It is what it is.
 
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AppleCori

Well-Known Member
My hubby used to say that the one thing he could count on with his older son was that he would never be a bad/neglectful parent. In his teen years, he worked at an after school program for young kids, and at a summer camp and talked with disdain about some of the bad parenting he saw.

Now, he is a neglectful parent who doesn’t pay child support, and has never done more than see his child when he (the child) is at Difficult Child’s mom’s house.

And the younger boy, if there is one thing we both were sure he wouldn’t do, it would be any type of drugs or cigarettes. He hated the way his older brother was when he took drugs. He hated smoking with a passion.

Now, he drinks (no worse than the average college student) and he vapes! I posted about this a while back. I was shocked. He was doing it in the house, despite his dad telling him he could not. Now, he no longer does it in the house, so I don’t know if he still vapes or not.

There are no guarantees in life.

Copa,

If you allow your son back, I don’t think you can put any conditions on him. You tried several times, and he never complied. Nothing has changed as far as I can tell.

Not smoking in the house may or may not be something he would agree to, but even then, what are you going to do if he does it anyway?

You will be setting yourself up for failure.

A neuro appointment. would be nice, in theory, but the other condition is more important. And, you have been trying to get him to follow through with that for years, with little success. I wouldn’t recommend pushing this other idea. On the hierarchy of importance, the neuro is pretty low.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I agree with the pot. If it didnt help anyone, doctors would not prescribe it. Is a natural plant better than a chemically put together antidepressant, which I take and which helps me and has not made me any less sharp? I dont know. Maybe it is different for each person. I can not smoke pot. I tried it as a kid and it made me sleepy, spacy (I couldnt have driven safely on it) paranoid and hungry. I was a very little girl, barely 100 lb. The munchies got to me and an astonished server made me five Chicago style hot dogs that I ate with fries!

But there is NO doubt that pot has medicinal properties for pain and is known for helping cancer patients and those with fibromyelgia. It is not all bad.

Now lets talk about alcohoil, which most adults our ages accept and use .is there even one good use for alcohol? A few studies show that a glass of red wine may be healthy. But so is a healthy diet! Excercise! Alcohol can and does kill. Neirher is good in my opinion but maybe pot does help some.

Our kids will be normal adults and most will drink and pot is highly accepted in the millenial community and it isnt going anywhere. Cigarettes bother me more. They are a killer with no up side.

I would not make pot a deal breaker. Copa you want J near you and he wants to be there. I dont like pot but I would deal with it as long as it wasnt smoked around me. I dislike smoke.
 
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Lil

Well-Known Member
Copa, I'm sorry. I was off all weekend dealing with snowmageddon here in Missouri. Sounds like you had a really awful weekend.

I had a lot of things to say, but I'm not going to beat a dead horse...most has been covered by others. But this jumped out at me:

My son will not meet me after all. I woke up to a text sent at 4 am that he was going to the big city to meet some guy who somebody told him could "help me with my problems." I have been giving him any number of leads about where he can get help, or find resources...but he will not follow up on anything I say. He has to do it his way.

Yep. He has to do it his way.

I am sure you are sad at how this all turned out and upset about it all. I would be too. But in the end, he has to do it his way. He is making choices and you are not going to be able to make them for him.

You've given him many other choices and opportunities. Maybe it's time to sit back and set him free to make the choices on his own. If he want's to move in to the rental - he will ask. If he wants the appointment - he knows you will help.

The door is open and you're holding it so it doesn't slam shut. He knows you love him. He knows you will help him. He knows the door is open. There really isn't anything else you can do except go on with your life.
:group-hug:
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
No judgement. I personally can see pot as helpful medicinally especially for pain or perhaps glaucoma.

But I did work with teens who got in trouble legally for drug usage (mostly pot) and their lack of motivation was disturbing.

Best guess is it’s not like that for all teens, but I suspect many if not most.

Perhaps also those with extreme anxiety get a sort of benefit if not used in excess. ???

Re no judgement also...we adopted a child that ended up suffering from mental illness. Lots of stigma. Lots of preconceived notions. “Perhaps mr and Mrs nomad didn’t raise her right?” Some people thought. Give me a break. On occasion I would meet someone who “got it,” like a neighbor who had a bipolar uncle and told me some “far out,” stories.

Some things you just have to live it yourself or closely observe. Some things we Might not understand. I don't know.

I do think perhaps we are each meant to try our best in life
 
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Albatross

Well-Known Member
My son will not meet me after all. I woke up to a text sent at 4 am that he was going to the big city to meet some guy who somebody told him could "help me with my problems." I have been giving him any number of leads about where he can get help, or find resources...but he will not follow up on anything I say. He has to do it his way.
I'm so sorry, Copa. Yes, he does. Frustrating stuff.
And if I focus on this one thing, marijuana, my demon rum, there comes to be a chance, that there can be normalcy once again. Paradise regained.
It is another way we change the channel, I think.

You've given me much to think about, Copa. I'm so sorry this has happened.
 

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
Hi Copa,
Just checking in to see how you are doing today. I do hope you have been able to get some good sleep.
((HUGS)) to you!!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Thanks Tanya.

Not sleeping well. But otherwise ok. So worried about my son. So perplexed.

Apparently, he needs and wants to come back, it seems. Then why can't he just meet on neutral ground for an hour? First. What's so hard about that.?

M says it's because. He's ashamed I see him.
Thar hes probably in bad shape. And that he does not want to commit to anything. He wants it all on his terms.

Shaking my head.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I dont know J, but I am guessing that on top of that he doesnt want to hear you tell him what he doesnt want to hear and that he just has lots of trouble showing up on time for obligations. Silly to us, of course, but not to him. He doesnt seem to be able to get places on time for whatever reason
A pain in the butt for sure! Inconsiderate. Makes meet ups hard.

Have a good day. Nothing has to be settled right this minute or even today. There is no rush

Hugs and love!
 

Elsi

Well-Known Member
Copa, sending hugs. I know how hard it is to keep the worry and sorrow under control when they are making choices that directly impact their health and well-being. agree with SWOT - don’t make any decisions based in panic. I hope you’re able to have a successful meetup soon so you can get a better sense of where his head is.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
My son texted me that he wanted to meet on Saturday. No sooner than I checked the train schedule, he wrote back saying it was off. That something "very bad" came up and he could not meet this month.

I am wondering if it's his conspiracy theories or real ambivalence or inability to focus on something and follow through. Or all of it.

This is destabilizing to me. This pull-push.

Maybe he experiences me this way, too. And I have to try very hard to do what you all are telling me. Let him be. Center myself in me. And not try to seek results from him.

It's so hard when I am scared and panicked, about his health, in particular. I try to handle my fear, by getting control over him. And it never, ever works. Not at all. You'd think I would learn.

My Hebrew started again and I have been unable to focus enough to begin. I feel anxious that all of a sudden it is too hard, and the technology is too hard. I will try again. I have lost my center, again.
 

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
One of the hardest things for a parent to let go of is worry. I'm so sorry that he unwilling to follow through and meet you.
What would it look like if he did come back and stay with you or in the other house (not sure where M would go) but lets just think about what it would look like.
Whether he lived with you or in the other house, he has made it clear that he does not want to compromise and want to live his life the way he chooses. That would be no different than it is now except that you would be footing the bill. You would still worry about his health. Living with you there would be no guarantee that he would go to have his liver checked. I don't know that you would get a different result than you have already had when he was living with you or in the other house.
I would also imagine that on some level he knows all that you have told him is true but to admit that would mean, perhaps in his mind, that you won. He would have to give into his ego and accept that you were right. I often wonder if this is how many of our difficult adult children feel.
I also imagine that without M living in your house, that has added to your feelings of anxiety. I am glad that he is still there to offer some support.
Hang in there Copa!! We are all here for you.
 

Tired out

Well-Known Member
My son texted me that he wanted to meet on Saturday. No sooner than I checked the train schedule, he wrote back saying it was off. That something "very bad" came up and he could not meet this month.
"Something bad" to him maybe that a place the slept got condemned and locked up and they are looking for a new flophouse and he wants to help his friends.
They are so warped about their "something bad' and "Mom Help" calls. He is creating his own issues. I think he is trying to break you all the way down to you wanting him home with NO rules at all..no doctor, smoke all he wants, anywhere he wants etc.
Try and take care of yourself.

Hugs.

Hugs.
 

CareTooMuch

Active Member
Copa, you have to let go some or you will implode, physically and emotionally. Would you consider blocking him from your cell for a little while, just to get centered?
 

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
I just cannot accept that there is nothing I can do.
This okay Copa. Each one of us has to decide for ourselves when enough is enough. It is my hope and prayer that your son will come to realize how blessed he is to have you. That he would realize that know one will ever love him the way you do.
Copa, I hope you can find a happy medium - one that will allow you to continue to try and guide your son and to also find some peace and joy for yourself.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
I try to handle my fear, by getting control over him.

I would also imagine that on some level he knows all that you have told him is true but to admit that would mean, perhaps in his mind, that you won. He would have to give into his ego and accept that you were right. I often wonder if this is how many of our difficult adult children feel.

I kind of think these two things are feeding off each other.

Copa is afraid, and not without cause, but the fear results in her trying and trying to get control: bargaining and making these contingent offers - begging and cajoling J to do things to help himself. J, on the other hand, sees what Copa's doing as manipulating and nagging and as a result digs in his heels and just refuses.

What would you do if someone was trying to control you?

Sweet Copa - I just don't see anything you can do but back off. I don't think your efforts at control will pan out anytime soon.

:group-hug:
 
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