Baggy Bags
Active Member
Thinking of you. Hoping you have a good re-encounter with J.
I am sad and desperate and hopeless again
- Thread starter Copabanana
- Start date
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
He did not show. He texted when I was like three minutes from destination. That he would not get there til 4. Then it changed to 5. I'll pay. He said.
No. Take a taxi.
Him: it's too expensive.
Me: take a taxi.
Him: no contact
No. Take a taxi.
Him: it's too expensive.
Me: take a taxi.
Him: no contact
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry. I dont know what to.say. there is no excuse although he will have one.
I would never go out to meet him again. If it were me (and I know it isnt me) but I would probably not respond to him for a while. But that is what I do, not you. I am very angry at him.
So sad.
Big hugs.
I would never go out to meet him again. If it were me (and I know it isnt me) but I would probably not respond to him for a while. But that is what I do, not you. I am very angry at him.
So sad.
Big hugs.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I just got on an earlier train back A six hour fiasco. So very sad.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
He sees himself as the victim of external forces. Takes no responsibility.
It's a good thing I said no don't come home. (Until we work things out). This is what I would have been dealing with. He has to take responsibility for something. He won't.
Very very sad. m keeps saying. You have no control over another person.
I am not asking him to do fifty fifty.. I'm asking for 1 to 4 percent.
It's a good thing I said no don't come home. (Until we work things out). This is what I would have been dealing with. He has to take responsibility for something. He won't.
Very very sad. m keeps saying. You have no control over another person.
I am not asking him to do fifty fifty.. I'm asking for 1 to 4 percent.
Last edited:
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
So very sad. I am.
Kalahou
Well-Known Member
Sadly, I am not surprised Copa. I only have similar past experiences with my own son to go on. This is how I read similar events I experienced: -
The last-minute changes, excuses, delays, “lies”, etc. are his way to show that he never intended to go through with it, and he does not want to. (If he really did intend and want to, he could have made it happen.) With my son, he can and does take initiative to do what he wants to do, (even with all the unfortunate conduct and risks involved) when he wants something out of it.
With my son, I’ve learned and understand he is afraid of disappointing me in what I may want, and he has a shame with me about knowing his own life is not what I would like to see … Or he is afraid to face the reality of meeting with me to hear my “questioning tone of voice” perhaps or to face my “questioning looks” - as it pushes him away more ?
So, in making any plans with me, he drags on a “cat and mouse” pretense – to try to “do and say the right things and make plans” - allowing the clock to tick until zero hour and even far beyond - until then the game is up and over … No show, and always with excuses / lies … (something happened - not his fault, of course).
One time I called him out on this pattern and told him if he really wanted to keep the commitment, then he would. And his response back to me was exactly that - He point blank told me - “ Good Mom, you got it - Yes, if I did want to do it, I would!”
These are hard things to accept. I'm trying to get there. You cannot ask for 1 - 4%. They do not owe us anything. He has to want to give it himself, on his own.
The last-minute changes, excuses, delays, “lies”, etc. are his way to show that he never intended to go through with it, and he does not want to. (If he really did intend and want to, he could have made it happen.) With my son, he can and does take initiative to do what he wants to do, (even with all the unfortunate conduct and risks involved) when he wants something out of it.
With my son, I’ve learned and understand he is afraid of disappointing me in what I may want, and he has a shame with me about knowing his own life is not what I would like to see … Or he is afraid to face the reality of meeting with me to hear my “questioning tone of voice” perhaps or to face my “questioning looks” - as it pushes him away more ?
So, in making any plans with me, he drags on a “cat and mouse” pretense – to try to “do and say the right things and make plans” - allowing the clock to tick until zero hour and even far beyond - until then the game is up and over … No show, and always with excuses / lies … (something happened - not his fault, of course).
One time I called him out on this pattern and told him if he really wanted to keep the commitment, then he would. And his response back to me was exactly that - He point blank told me - “ Good Mom, you got it - Yes, if I did want to do it, I would!”
These are hard things to accept. I'm trying to get there. You cannot ask for 1 - 4%. They do not owe us anything. He has to want to give it himself, on his own.
I’m so sorry.
I’m sorry if this is too personal a question, but did you say you would pay for the taxi?
Not that it matters all that much. But, his thinking doesn’t sound clear. But the bigger deal is why didn’t he start out sooner, make a greater effort and so forth?
So sad. Agree with above poster. He has to want to give more of himself/did he want to be there at all?
I’m sorry if this is too personal a question, but did you say you would pay for the taxi?
Not that it matters all that much. But, his thinking doesn’t sound clear. But the bigger deal is why didn’t he start out sooner, make a greater effort and so forth?
So sad. Agree with above poster. He has to want to give more of himself/did he want to be there at all?
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Oh Copa I am so, so sorry. This is all too familiar to me as well. I’ve danced this dance many, many times with C and S. I’ve learned not to pin my hopes on them showing up for anything we agree to. I’m better off when I have no expectations at all, and just let it be a pleasant surprise if they do follow through.
But it is hard, especially when you have to travel,so far, and you’ve waited so long to try to make this happen. I hope you can keep your spirits up. It’s a set back, but not unexpected given where he is in his life right now. And it’s not the last chance you’ll ever have. When he’s ready, it will happen.
But it is hard, especially when you have to travel,so far, and you’ve waited so long to try to make this happen. I hope you can keep your spirits up. It’s a set back, but not unexpected given where he is in his life right now. And it’s not the last chance you’ll ever have. When he’s ready, it will happen.
toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Oh Copa . My stomach hurts just thinking about this journey of yours! Hope somehow he makes contact!
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I believe in the three day rule (in theory) to make important decisions, but I cant do it myself. So maybe without giving it too much thought, it is time to maybe ask the one who IS always there for you, M, home. Not telling you what to do (honest) but after today I think all of us need to eventually trust and be with the people who treat us the best. M has been a rock. You tried with J again. I am so sad and disappointed that he let you down once more. I am thinking that M wouldnt let you down. That is so important to our souls, I believe.
And hug your pets too. Hard!
Much love.
And hug your pets too. Hard!
Much love.
toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Copa...tears in my eyes for you. I think all of us with sons who do things on this order feel your pain and frustration and despair and helplessness. There really is nothing more you can do. You have tried every which way you can to be there for him. I do hope you find your way back to taking care of you and your needs. And I too wonder about M who seems like is really there for you. Many thoughts with you tonight!
CareTooMuch
Active Member
Copa, just know he isn't doing this purposely to you, it's just you're in the crossfire of his emotional upheaval. I don't think our kids mean to hurt us, we're just the ones who love them and care for them the most so we get hurt the most. Please try to breathe and try to not let this setback define you. I do think at this point he has to come to you, you can't try to go to him again. And if he makes it to you he may be ready for some help. But you've done your very best and you deserve to give yourself a break now and live your best life. And so sorry about the leak, you didn't need additional stress.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I dont think they set out to hurt us either. Nor sometimes other people we love who are not willing or able to follow through with a commitment. They may mean to come when they make the plans. Then the day comes when they realise they have somewhere to go and someone to talk to who may give them a bit of grief. It isnt an inviting prospect so no rush getting ready to go.
They are tired.
They feel lazy.
They arent used to work schedules and structure and dont feel good about traveling to meet somebody at a certain time. Their lives are not about meeting obligations. Their lives are about hanging out and moving only when they want to move.
They start talking to someone nearby and time passes and they arent used to paying attention to a clock.
Somehow they remember they are supposed to be somewhere else. Yikes!
They wonder how to get out of the commitment. And they dont know how. And prefer to evade problems of their own doing which can stress them out if they are scolded.
So they just dont show up or they make a few lame calls and excuses. We are there, nervous. We wait until we are sure they wont come. It is always a blow.
I really think a lot of the no shows are about laziness. And not wanting to hear "it" whatever they think "it" will be. It just tires them out....the thought.
While its not usually personal, its not acceptable either. At some point dont we need to plan our future with those we can trust? Dont we deserve it?
I wish I had magic answers. For everyone.
They are tired.
They feel lazy.
They arent used to work schedules and structure and dont feel good about traveling to meet somebody at a certain time. Their lives are not about meeting obligations. Their lives are about hanging out and moving only when they want to move.
They start talking to someone nearby and time passes and they arent used to paying attention to a clock.
Somehow they remember they are supposed to be somewhere else. Yikes!
They wonder how to get out of the commitment. And they dont know how. And prefer to evade problems of their own doing which can stress them out if they are scolded.
So they just dont show up or they make a few lame calls and excuses. We are there, nervous. We wait until we are sure they wont come. It is always a blow.
I really think a lot of the no shows are about laziness. And not wanting to hear "it" whatever they think "it" will be. It just tires them out....the thought.
While its not usually personal, its not acceptable either. At some point dont we need to plan our future with those we can trust? Dont we deserve it?
I wish I had magic answers. For everyone.
Last edited:
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
So bizarre.
I'm a wreck.
No sooner than the return train takes off, he texts.
I'm at Troy!! (The restaurant)
Please!!
Come back!!
Nooo. Turn around.
Right now!!!
100 lines of this. In caps.
J. I can't. I'm on the train. There's no train back. There's no train home..
come back!!I
I love you Mom. Please. Come back now.
This went on 25 minutes.
Come tomorrow.!!
I need to talk to you.
Mooommmm.
Please.
Come back now
I'm staying here until you come back
Ooo. Nooo. You'll never forgive me now
Oh no. It would have worked.
Come back tomorrow!!
___
Whack job.
So I said. I will be in a city a couple hours from you on Monday. If you want to come.
He could go there. I would not wait. (Train.) If he wanted to go there, we could talk.
Wiped. Fridge leaking again. M came and unplugged it. New fridge: $2200.
I'm tired. It could have been worse.
Thank you everybody.
__
I waited an hour for the rendevous at the restaurant. He did not respond to my texts. I told him: I am leaving. I could have waited four hours more. At the restaurant. And arrived home at ten. I felt the likelihood if his showing was not good. I preferred to cut my losses.
The food was nothing special.
I'm a wreck.
No sooner than the return train takes off, he texts.
I'm at Troy!! (The restaurant)
Please!!
Come back!!
Nooo. Turn around.
Right now!!!
100 lines of this. In caps.
J. I can't. I'm on the train. There's no train back. There's no train home..
come back!!I
I love you Mom. Please. Come back now.
This went on 25 minutes.
Come tomorrow.!!
I need to talk to you.
Mooommmm.
Please.
Come back now
I'm staying here until you come back
Ooo. Nooo. You'll never forgive me now
Oh no. It would have worked.
Come back tomorrow!!
___
Whack job.
So I said. I will be in a city a couple hours from you on Monday. If you want to come.
He could go there. I would not wait. (Train.) If he wanted to go there, we could talk.
Wiped. Fridge leaking again. M came and unplugged it. New fridge: $2200.
I'm tired. It could have been worse.
Thank you everybody.
__
I waited an hour for the rendevous at the restaurant. He did not respond to my texts. I told him: I am leaving. I could have waited four hours more. At the restaurant. And arrived home at ten. I felt the likelihood if his showing was not good. I preferred to cut my losses.
The food was nothing special.
Last edited:
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Copa I’m so sorry, about everything. The journey, the fridge, the stress.
I think SWOT has it exactly right. This is exactly what happens with mine. They mean to follow through, they really do. But their brains and lives just don’t work the way ours do. This is a symptom of the chaos they live in, internal and external. With mine, if it’s important enough to me to connect, I know I have to enter that chaos at least part of the way and accept their sense of time and obligation, which is different from mine. I know they may or may not show. Their phones may or may not be on and working. They may or may not choose to communicate with me about their changing plans. What they feel like and are able to do today maybe very different from what they imagined when we made our plans. Then taking a bus across town to meet me in a nicer, safer area of the city and have a meal and a chat sounded doable, even desirable. Now that the day is here, even texting me back to tell me they are not coming is an impossible task. I have come to understand this, forgive it and accept it. Because to do otherwise - to insist that they keep their obligations like a normal person, to say if you’re not on time im leaving, to say if you stand me up again we’re never doing this again - is to give up having any relationship with them at all. The chaos is the price I pay for the tenuous relationships we have. I cannot allow them in my place of peace and safety, or they will turn it into chaos. But I can occasionally enter their chaos with them, with a rope around my waist to lead me home, and visit them where they are. I just have to accept that, being chaos, things will not always go as planned.
There are limits to what we can do on a given day. You were right to leave, not knowing when or if he was showing up and having a train schedule to keep. But you may have to do this dance more than once before you have a successful meeting. You’ll have to decide what boundaries you want to set around your next meeting. How much chaos you can bear, and what you need to retain your sanity when entering the chaos.
Hugs.
I think SWOT has it exactly right. This is exactly what happens with mine. They mean to follow through, they really do. But their brains and lives just don’t work the way ours do. This is a symptom of the chaos they live in, internal and external. With mine, if it’s important enough to me to connect, I know I have to enter that chaos at least part of the way and accept their sense of time and obligation, which is different from mine. I know they may or may not show. Their phones may or may not be on and working. They may or may not choose to communicate with me about their changing plans. What they feel like and are able to do today maybe very different from what they imagined when we made our plans. Then taking a bus across town to meet me in a nicer, safer area of the city and have a meal and a chat sounded doable, even desirable. Now that the day is here, even texting me back to tell me they are not coming is an impossible task. I have come to understand this, forgive it and accept it. Because to do otherwise - to insist that they keep their obligations like a normal person, to say if you’re not on time im leaving, to say if you stand me up again we’re never doing this again - is to give up having any relationship with them at all. The chaos is the price I pay for the tenuous relationships we have. I cannot allow them in my place of peace and safety, or they will turn it into chaos. But I can occasionally enter their chaos with them, with a rope around my waist to lead me home, and visit them where they are. I just have to accept that, being chaos, things will not always go as planned.
There are limits to what we can do on a given day. You were right to leave, not knowing when or if he was showing up and having a train schedule to keep. But you may have to do this dance more than once before you have a successful meeting. You’ll have to decide what boundaries you want to set around your next meeting. How much chaos you can bear, and what you need to retain your sanity when entering the chaos.
Hugs.
Tired out
Well-Known Member
Maybe leaving was good. Perhaps it showed him you have perimeters and rules and that you are no longer willing to be just sit forever waiting.
I am still hopeful he can get it together and meet you and follow through.
Of course the fridge had to pull it's breakdown the same day. You couldn't just take the day, go relax,eat, read, wait. I always take a book when I have to wait for someone. I use it for escape time.
I am still hopeful he can get it together and meet you and follow through.
Of course the fridge had to pull it's breakdown the same day. You couldn't just take the day, go relax,eat, read, wait. I always take a book when I have to wait for someone. I use it for escape time.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you people. I agree with all of it. In fact it's illuminating. Not just about yesterday. About all of the events that led to his leaving town five months ago.
The only person who had to change here is me.
When he would not pay the quantity of rent he agreed on (this struggle had gone on two years, mind you) this was a manifestation of who he is, and how he lives. I could have just stayed calm and accepted the money and insisted he set up an automatic withdrawal. Neutral. Dispassionate. Taken my power.
But this was my line in the stand. Finally. Because until then I felt no power. Or center. I had to create it.
I would not budge. Finally. It was not about him. it was about me.
-----
I am scratching my head. Why did I not just accept the money from him when (finally)
under pressure he decided to give it to me?
That would have been the logical and humane thing to do. For him.
But not for me. I had to change. I had to decide that I could set a boundary and maintain it. Cost what it cost. To him or me.
What I regret is the cost to him But I did the right thing for me. I see it.
Not wanting to pay the full rent was only a manifestation of the same self-centered chaos, disorganization and dysregulatuon that is his baseline. He was just being him.
What changed was me. I stopped being the same me.
I feel terrible he suffered at my hand. (Homeless.) But the thing is, his lifestyle and chosen priorities have caused me to suffer. For years and years. To endure it all those years was wrong
That is not counting how we pushed him. That's on us.
The train trip was not bad. I do it all the time. The destination was tranquil, beautiful and easy. I saw a yarn shop. Maybe they give lessons.
I can envision doing this again. But I would only leave on the train if he guarantees me he is there, waiting. Let him find a library and wait.
The head scratching part is he rides this train all the time. It would have been one stop. For him.
Instead he remembered for sure this town had a metro station (never) and ended up in Timbuktu. And then blamed everybody that tried to help him for screwing up. He would not see clear to meet me even one fifth of the way. The need is his. He still cannot do it.
Thank you everybody.
The only person who had to change here is me.
When he would not pay the quantity of rent he agreed on (this struggle had gone on two years, mind you) this was a manifestation of who he is, and how he lives. I could have just stayed calm and accepted the money and insisted he set up an automatic withdrawal. Neutral. Dispassionate. Taken my power.
But this was my line in the stand. Finally. Because until then I felt no power. Or center. I had to create it.
I would not budge. Finally. It was not about him. it was about me.
-----
I am scratching my head. Why did I not just accept the money from him when (finally)
under pressure he decided to give it to me?
That would have been the logical and humane thing to do. For him.
But not for me. I had to change. I had to decide that I could set a boundary and maintain it. Cost what it cost. To him or me.
What I regret is the cost to him But I did the right thing for me. I see it.
Not wanting to pay the full rent was only a manifestation of the same self-centered chaos, disorganization and dysregulatuon that is his baseline. He was just being him.
What changed was me. I stopped being the same me.
I feel terrible he suffered at my hand. (Homeless.) But the thing is, his lifestyle and chosen priorities have caused me to suffer. For years and years. To endure it all those years was wrong
That is not counting how we pushed him. That's on us.
The train trip was not bad. I do it all the time. The destination was tranquil, beautiful and easy. I saw a yarn shop. Maybe they give lessons.
I can envision doing this again. But I would only leave on the train if he guarantees me he is there, waiting. Let him find a library and wait.
The head scratching part is he rides this train all the time. It would have been one stop. For him.
Instead he remembered for sure this town had a metro station (never) and ended up in Timbuktu. And then blamed everybody that tried to help him for screwing up. He would not see clear to meet me even one fifth of the way. The need is his. He still cannot do it.
Thank you everybody.
Last edited:
