I believe I am raising a Psychopath at 6 years old

[BusynMember]

This is why it is so hard for us to find a professional who really "gets" it. They are taught pat theories.

This person is very naive. I could only read some of it before I had to quit.

 

[buddy]

Listen, if you are still here, and still willing to learn from these wise warriors... one more thing I will share.

Yes, many behaviors are learned in a sense. But it is rare that kids have purely learned issues. Typically there are physical and/or mental health issues that no amount of a parent's changing their reactions will fix.

Really learn about the brain and the bio-chemical processes in our bodies. Really learn about how damage to the brain can impact a person for life. How autism affects a person's ability to perceive what is being "taught" to them. What a family history and inherited mental illness can do to a person.

No amount of suspensions, taking away priveleges, reinforcing "good" behaviors, will ever ever ever repair the brain injury my son has suffered.

Many of these young kids who get ODD and CD diagnoses (and in my humble opinion most of the older ones) are being called that only to get services because the real cause of these issues can't be found. If you continue on this path please realize that a diagnosis that describes behavior does not give a good enough answer to make a change in the life of a child. You must get to the issues

Even a mild Learning Disability (LD) or a problem understanding sounds or language can cause so many frustrations that things can grow and get out of hand. Make sure these kids you ever come in contact with have complete neuro, psychiatric, neuropsychologist, Occupational Therapist (OT), Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluations before you give a pat answer based on what you see on the outside, OK??

My son nearly died because it was assumed he was just banging his head due to behavior, his foster placement as a baby and possible Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. For over a year they delayed testing and he nearly died from a large brain mass that bled and caused strokes. More recently they thought he was just anxious because he was seeing things as "fake".... he had a hard time explaining it so they said it was depersonalization and he was given a drug that his body can't metabolize well and he could have died from that never mind that it increases his aggression. Turns out he was having seizures all day and night...

If YOU saw my son yesterday.... pounding on his class door to get in, swearing at the teacher and disrupting his class then ripping things up in his little private room area, you would likely say he had been taught to act like that. In a sense true....it has evolved but just forcing him to stop and even reinfocing moments when he is not like that wont help. He does not have the SKILLS nor the mental capacity to do better on his own. The methods he needs are vastly different from consequence/reward programs.


Are you starting to understand what we are about here? I am honestly not mad at you, trying to help you to understand. It is scary for us to have professionals go out there and have these kinds of statistics and ideas in their heads.

The kids that token charts etc work on are neurotypical kids. Not OUR kids. My niece will do anything for a sticker....but then again, she is not a hurt child...just a kid who doesn't like to clean up or do homework. If that is what you like to work with, it honestly is a great thing. My sister has sought help and appreciated these kinds of ideas because many parents run out of ideas for their neurotypical kids too. Do not work with seriously disabled or challenged kids though, unless you do what is recommended here. Try living with someone like this for a full week...I remember reading about doctors who did that (those who had been saying to try this or that etc... after a week the docs in training got a clue)

 

[Snoopy]

Eatpraytravel-
I just ran across your post and I'd love to offer you some support. My internationally adopted daughter is 6 years old and she was diagnosed with an attachment disorder and DTD (Developmental Trauma Disorder) when she was 3 years old. She would have easily been diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, and an anxiety disorder had any professional been willing to diagnose her with these at such a young age. After 3 years of hard work, I would say she's 90% healed. She's like a completely different child who we love dearly. Unfortunately I couldn't say that just three short years ago. And I could have easily written your post. I have tons of resources I could share with you. Your son is still so young and much can be done to help him heal. Please let me know if you are interested in exchanging emails or chatting via phone. Not sure how we can communicate other than through this forum though (I just joined so I'm not familiar with how one might communicate privately...and I'd prefer not to post my phone number or email address). Best to you...and hang in there.

 

[buddy]

Eatpraytravel-
I just ran across your post and I'd love to offer you some support. My internationally adopted daughter is 6 years old and she was diagnosed with an attachment disorder and DTD (Developmental Trauma Disorder) when she was 3 years old. She would have easily been diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, and an anxiety disorder had any professional been willing to diagnose her with these at such a young age. After 3 years of hard work, I would say she's 90% healed. She's like a completely different child who we love dearly. Unfortunately I couldn't say that just three short years ago. And I could have easily written your post. I have tons of resources I could share with you. Your son is still so young and much can be done to help him heal. Please let me know if you are interested in exchanging emails or chatting via phone. Not sure how we can communicate other than through this forum though (I just joined so I'm not familiar with how one might communicate privately...and I'd prefer not to post my phone number or email address). Best to you...and hang in there.

HI Snoopy, we haven't heard from her for a while but certainly doesn't mean she is not reading and not posting. I pray she is ok and getting support. Would LOVE for you to post on your own... I think it was last month in particular we got many new people you would be able to relate to. I think people hear mostly of kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) who are not helped much by therapy. I too had a lot of success and my son is still having issues but he has other medical conditions to complicate things. The attachment piece has improved I'd say 75%.

For sure dont post your number here. Just if she does a PM here. (also not your email....that is why they have PM on this board). Very sweet of you to post. I hope she sees it.

 

[TerryJ2]

Hi Snoopy, welcome.
Please re-post your note or rewrite it by clicking on New Thread/New Post. Then everyone can welcome you! You're getting lost at the end of this note.

 

[Otto von Bismark]

Eatpraytravel, I just want to tell you that this board is the best place to be. We all have had a lot of professionals give us well-meaning advice that ended up not working, or being flat-out wrong. This is a serious problem you have, you need support, and no one here will think you are a bad parent. I know that I have wrestled with the concept that my son's issues must be "my fault" and I am probably not alone. I know I feel judged by others, who are out there posting their children's ivy scholarships, sports star status, and "perfect lives" and I don't feel like there are people in my community I can turn to with our issues.

I have a child with a Conduct Disorder label, and have been told that I have a "future psychopath" on my hands, but because he has other issues, I am holding out hope that we can retrain things, help him cope with his problems in positive ways.

Please, please come back to this board and use these folks on here. They are amazing, knowledge-filled, and very wise.

They have helped me enormously, guided our kooky, frightening journey, into a place that makes sense, given me a sounding board, and a devil's advocate opinion that have helped me sort out doctor issues, and I have only been here a short few months. I have more strength than I had before I found this board.

Get everything you can on video, and find a good neuropsychologist doctor. Don't feel bad about asking for help, or about implementing a safety program in your home, such as cameras, door locks, and plans for your other kids. Get references for the neuropsychologist, if it is a private person, if you can, so you don't end up paying too much for questionable testing.
Hang in there.

Snoopy -- start a thread with your resources. Sounds great! Would love to hear from you.

 

[Snoopy]

Thank you buddy, TerryJ2, and Otto Von Bizmark for your replies.

I've never felt so welcomed by a group before...thank you! When I start a new thread introducing myself, is it best to post under the "general parenting" forum? Also, how much specific info can I share about the treatment/therapy we've done with our daughter? I thought it said under the site rules that we CANNOT share or promote specific people or businesses. That's the secret to our success with our daughter though! I need to share specifics (names and links) if others might receive benefit. We've done ZERO through the mainstream medical/mental health community other than getting a diagnosis and learning how to therapeutically parent our daughter. I learned early on that they had nothing to offer me in truly healing my daughter so I abandoned them quickly. For instance...regarding one specific therapy we've done...there are only four practitioners in the US who do this specific type of therapy (3 of them travel around the country helping families and kiddos like my daughter...Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and DTD kids among other alphabet soup diagnoses). I need to be able to share specifics about our practitioner if any of my info will be meaningful to other members. Also, I'd like to share the yahoo group info where I found all these wonderful and healing therapies. Just want to make sure so I don't overstep my bounds. Thank you again.

 

[buddy]

I would start in general parenting...just my bias...I find the diversity of support there really helpful for me.

I think you can describe what you do with no problem. You can say what state or a general area of the country and then if people are interested you can use PM to give specific links to what you actually did. Things that you generalize to your home setting and how you handle things (like for instance when my son was first adopted, even in the therapy setting... I was the one who had to do all diaper changing, kissing owies, having him sit on MY lap... I had to cut and help give food etc.. where the other kids in our family used all of us because when they were really upset they knew which one of us was the primary care giver).... those kinds of things are great to discuss without an advertisement for a certain person. We do recommend books and articles and things like that. Everyone has the right to say if it is good for them or not good for them.

Look forward to hearing from you!

 

[buddy]

HI EPT!!! So glad you are here and feisty. You see we also felt there needed to be some guidance for that poster, but the important thing is HOW ARE YOU???

 

[InsaneCdn]

Welcome back EPT...
Some day when you've got 5 mins to spare... how about a new thread with a brief update? or even just a watercooler "hi I'm still around but busy... "??

We still think about you and wonder how it goes...

 

[TeDo]

I'm NOT going to use the abbreviation EPT (brand name pregnancy test), so I will use your full name, eatpraytravel. I am also glad you are still around. When you have time, fill us in on what's going on. How's difficult child doing? How are YOU doing? Any successes to celebrate or challenges for us to support? Please keep in touch.

 

[TerryJ2]

Good call, TeDo, lol!

 

[buddy]

Yeah, sorry when I SAID it out loud I thought the same thing, sorry EPTravel. (does that work??) LOL....my bad.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Did you re-enable your PM status?
That's the fastest way...

If you do that and then PM the admin who asked... you might get something faster.

Site admin isn't on-site full-time... the moderators are around, but can't reach you by email.

 

[buddy]

That is the one who is the site administrator. She has many sites I think so is not here full time. She will contact you though. Know the rest of us are here for you though ok??

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Eatpraytravel,

As one of the mods on this forum, I can tell you that I've not been contacted through the automated system that you needed help.

If you PM me with your concerns/needs, rest assured I will make sure you are helped asap.

Sharon

 

[addie]

I am sorry that I havent read ALL the responses but there are a couple of things I want to say, which probably have already been said, in which case ...sorry.
there is NO WAY the school system (at least in ontario) can disallow him full day school. It is THEIR problem, and they have to solve it. He has the right to it.
Lol - I have probably fostered around 100 children, short and long term, and although I am treatment/therapeutic level, NONE were as bad as my adoptees! At age 5 they had to create a time out room for Chrissie and use a basket hold. Over the years they have had to assign a personal bathroom to one of my fosters, have a special code for another whereby the school was in shut- down mode till she was under control ...and these were all in elementary school. And in a rural area.
I hope if/by the time you read this, your child's rights are being met by the system. It is the law.

Yes, some of us have gone onto medications to enable us to cope. That was WAY before fostering, for me. 20 violent rages a day take their toll. First it was Effexor, then cymbalta, and I still take it mostly because I can't be bothered to wean myself off. As my raging one came under control (risperdal, then Seroquel which as an adult she has voluntarily gone back onto) my quiet but deadly one got into her stride. It was never-
ending till they left home, though we still help out when we can, re court, jail, pregnancy, etc.

Re the terminology: I am sure this has been explained but I will suggest one is more credible if one uses the term ODD (often plus ADHD) up to about age 15. Then it can be CD up to about age 18. Then it is anti social personality disorder (ASPD) and there are some differences, significant ones, between a psychopath and a sociopath. I hear you loud and clear about how your son is presenting right now, but there ARE other possible dxes and what are called "rule outs" are very important.

There is an interesting thread somewhere - I came across it this morning - maybe in another forum, about lack of sleep in infancy having long term effects. There is also some very interesting work going on around early childhood trauma, which is being likened to post traumatic stress. The terminology for that keeps changing, but what I have read is VERY on the button about our difficult children ongoing behaviors, and I hope some day it is included in the DSM.

Last, as many have said, this is NOT your fault. And I can honestly tell you from experience that you MUST look after yourself first, so you can look after your child. Whatever that takes, medications or therapy (therapy, i find, did nothing for any of my children but it sure as heck helped ME to cope with and understand the problems I have faced over the years). Getting funding for someone to give you respite. Whatever. For me a great part of my support was this board, over and over and over again.

To be brutally honest, I think your child belongs out of the home for now, either long term or until answers, dxes, treatments etc. are found. But there may be some unexplored avenues still, and I KNOW how hard it is to appear to give up.

I so hope you have rehired the cat by now.
i will read the other responses when I have a bit more time. Hang in!

 

[runawaybunny]

Someone named Cheryl actually e-mailed me....

My PM is turned on... I don't know how to reach anyone, I don't know who I should be talking to.

I'm the site admin and the one that emailed you a couple of days ago asking how I can help, I also sent you a pm. There must be some kind of mixup because I haven't received any responses or any other messages from you. I also responded to you yesterday in the thread you started in the site help forum.

Feel free to pm me anytime or use the contact us link on the bottom of the forum pages which automates the process of sending me an email. You can also pm any moderator.

Cheryl

 

[addie]

Oops! This predictive text can be a problem ...I meant re-homed the cat, not re-hired!!!!
I am glad to see this board is as,feisty as ever. I just cringed when I read THAT post. Exactly what we do NOT need to hear. And oh so wrong.

Somehow I seem to think you live in Ontario, eatpraytravel. If you do, I have found CAMH (used to be Clarke Clinic) the BEST assessment place, so if that is available to you, be a squeaky wheel. They have solved my most difficult cases, including diagnosis-ing Jess CD at age 12. I, incorrectly, would and could not accept that diagnosis so young, but I was oh so wrong. Some people have had success with Sick Kids, which I have only used for FASD.

I think you are Canadian, and while it hurt to hear what you called Family Services (I have only heard that term in the Dufferin region) and I call CAS (because I am with them) ...well, what you said about them, I know that often it is how they come across. I hate to admit it. But at least I can assure you that MOST foster homes are totally fine. In all my years (15) I have only come across anacedotal rumors of a few that are not so good, but with the severity of your son's behaviors he SHOULD be in a treatment/therapeutic foster home, and they (we) are committed to what we do, and I have the scars to prove it! We are also very experienced and knowledgeable, and I would love to hear what another pair of eyes thinks of your son.

That being said, I doubt CAS will take the case/open a file, as if "there are no parenting concerns" there simply is not th funding, and it is not their mandate. Your son is, being brutally honest again, the responsibility of you and mental health services. But finding the right ones???? Difficult.

In Canada we can't get these kids into hospital for an assessment. Well, not except in severe cases. I have had one or two in Newmarket hospital but that was after suicide threats etc. or the behaviors are SO bad I have had to call the police (we never, ever lay a hand on a child, and even basket holds are NOT allowed, so we have to call the police, who often think it is a waste of their time, to de-escalate a situation, but luckily most of them understand the Restrictions placed on a foster parent.). Sometimes the police will take the child to hospital, but that is rare.

But I am of course biased in (sorry!) believing that we have the better services. It's a question of finding and accessing them, and if you want to tell me where you are living, I might be able to help with that. But this is all new to me since I was last on the board, so I am not sure how to open or access PM.

honestly, one feels SO alone no matter how many folk are around you. For years I have never felt so alone in my life, phoning nd driving and searching and asking schools and docs, with NO-one ever seeming to get it. Not even a really top psychiatrist who had to sit on his chair to keep the door of his office closed as Chrissie was under his chair, violently trying to get out. At CAMH we all stood,behind a re-inforced door watching her trash reception.

but your son sounds WAY more complex so I really, really, really hope you can get some expert eyes on him, with a treatment plan evolving. by the way, the school can and should have a safety plan in place. That is their duty.

 

[Ettina]

I second your looking at the threads, put yourself in the shoes of someone who has faithfully tried sticker charts, gone to one professional after another, had a child nearly die from mis diagnosis or being given the wrong medications, losing trust in school people (and I am ONE OF THEM--a person who worked in the field for years, had to quit to care for my disabled child and who has had to fight a maddening situation) because they often have their own agendas and are poorly supplied with support and training....

I'm not a parent (like Listen, I'm a psychiatric student), but I resonate with that from the other side. Most of my childhood was spent with only my parents understanding me, no one listening to them, I kept trying to be a good kid but the teachers would do something wrong and I'd go into a panic thinking my life depended on fighting them tooth and nail... We knew from age 6 that I had PTSD (my parents were kinship foster carers to two kids who turned out to be sexually abusive) but the school never listened to the advice for PTSD kids - for example, when I hid underneath tables they'd drag me out by my arm, which literally hurt and sent me into even more of a panic. My autism wasn't diagnosed until I was 15, and it wasn't until I was 19 that we figured out the particular type of autism I have (Newson Syndrome, which involves a phobia of external control that causes oppositional behavior).

A textbook can't tell you what it's like to live with a condition, either as an affected person or a loved one. I see how they get autism wrong because they never thought to run their theory by an autistic person first (so many times I read studies where the results sound like me but the interpretation of the results is dead wrong). It makes me aware of how important it is to look for information besides the studies in order to really understand a condition.

For example, I actually found a blog written by a psychopath - Psychopathic Writings. It's a fascinating read, gives a whole different insight into the condition.