I can't do this....

[BusynMember]

Nothing we do can make them do anything.

It did help my daughter dump the losers when she moved out of state. It took that.

In the end, I learned everything is up to them. Everything. They do what they want to do. Often this is unfortunate.

 

[in a daze]

We bought ours a cheap condo for 20,000.00 but he flamed out after a month, ended up in the hospital and never lived with us again. That was over three years ago.

This is what makes Lil and Jabber's situation so difficult. Ours was a lot easier (?) because he went into the hospital and once he was there we refused to take him back, so he had no choice but to go to rehab and then sober living.

He's kind of on the borderline of some kind of mental illness/personality disorder, probably abuses substances but not a full fledged addict, can't hold a job, relationship problems, once in a while sees a counselor but refuses any kind of psychological evaluation or assessment.... so what do you do?

I know what's helped us was a therapist to guide us through. This is really tough stuff, and I think it would be well worth it to get your own therapist to help you navigate this difficult situation with your son. Everyone's advice on the board is good, but having the support of your own professional counselor can be invaluable, especially since your son has issues, but they're not so flagrant as to get him immediate, intensive help.

 

[Ironbutterfly]

I don't know what's right. I know that it's his fault he hasn't found work. But knowing that doesn't help. I know he's had 2 1/2 months to be able to pass a drug test and have a full-time job (most places hiring full-time require that) but he hasn't. Knowing that doesn't help. I know that NOT putting him out when we said we would sets a bad precedent. Knowing that doesn't help.

We wouldn't have to be on the lease - all we'd have to do is fork over the cash. But it wouldn't really stop there. Because he still needs a FULL TIME job to pay $400/mo. He can't count on J. He knows that. He'd still rather have crappy, irresponsible friends than none at all. I told him today that I was going to tell him the same thing I've told women in abusive relationships, "It's better to be with no one than to be with the wrong one." but he doesn't agree.

So a month would go by and we'd be right back here. Maybe not. Maybe pigs will fly.

He may be manipulating me. Probably is.

Knowing this doesn't help.

Lil- Look in the paper for rooms to rent; those are cheaper then getting an apartment by himself. Often you can get those month by month. Maybe help with first month until he can build up funds to start paying rent. My son had done this over the years. I'm sorry you and Jabber are facing tough decisions. YOU guys have to do what is best for you.

 

[Lil]

Well Jabber says they aren't at the house...thank God. That means I just don't bring J back and he gets to stay out. Jabber and I need to do some serious thinking I guess...but I just really want to bury myself in my blankets and wake up with Difficult Child is employed and taking care of himself.

Excuse my momentary self-indulgence - IT'S NOT FAIR!

- I least I recognize I'm being this way.

 

[Lil]

Aaaannd I spoke too soon. I resent like hell feeling like a bad guy over a man whose not my kid.

 

[AppleCori]

J is at your house?

 

[Lil]

Yep. He had to come get his stuff...and now of course he doesn't know where he's going to go.

I hate this SO much. He's got no one, which is totally not my business, but is still sad. He's also in my opinion not good for my son...but he's still his friend. He's not even a good houseguest! He eats us out of house and home and doesn't really pick up or do anything.

And I still hate this SO much. I wish we'd never let him stay at all.

**Update** After eating a huge portion of our dinner (I did invite him) Jabber has taken him back to the other buddy's house...he probably can't stay there, but he's out of here. Our son is staying with him for a while at least but may come home tonight. I so don't care.

I have to get over this. I know I do. I HAVE to stop being so - afraid isn't really the right word - of confrontation. I just ... HATE this. I burst into tears when Jabber asked if I wanted him to skip his guitar lesson tonight. Poor husband. I just ... it kills me to let him be homeless. And that's J! You can imagine how paralyzed I am over my SON!

 

[in a daze]

but I just really want to bury myself in my blankets and wake up with Difficult Child is employed and taking care of himself.

Yep. Wish we could wake up and it be all a bad dream.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, J is probably homeless because he burned through all his family and friends. I volunteered at a homeless shelter and yes it was sad and most people didn't want to talk about how they became homeless but if they did, it was always the same story. Their family and/or friends gave them places to stay then got sick of their behavior and threw them out.

They were homeless because of them and their behavior. J may have burned through many people who tried to help him. You only know what he and your son want you to know.

 

[Lil]

Jabber and I have been talking about these two. Part of our problem is...they're just terrible house guests, both of them.

If our son mows the lawn, he expects to get paid. Otherwise, he doesn't offer. Jabber comes home from work and our son, if he's here, is sitting on his butt, watching TV or on the computer. Jabber takes care of the immediate chores, pooper scooping, feeding cat and dogs, getting dinner ready, etc. Our son doesn't think of any of that...never even once. They eat TONS, tonight J ate darn near twice what Jabber and I did, and they don't tell us if they've eaten the last of something, even though we have a chalk board right there on the wall of the kitchen to write groceries on. They usually do their own dishes, but often we end up doing them again because they do a bad job. The other day we realized they were using plastic utensils so they didn't have to wash silverware and just throwing the dirty ones in the recycle container. Two problems. #1, we keep those for our lunches and to take to work. #2, you can't put food contaminated items in the recycling. The other day we found cigarette butts in the trash, which smells to high heaven - they don't smoke in the house, so why throw the butts in there? It's a thousand little things that make us crazy.

If he was a good house guest, if he kept his room clean, did some chores without expecting payment, but just to help out, then we might feel differently. But it's kind of too late to tell them that; and shouldn't they have just known that? I mean, maybe J has never been taught how to be a good house guest, but I know our son has.

It just would be so much easier to say yes to helping them if they acted like they appreciated it. I believe they do, but they don't act like it.

 

[BusynMember]

Unless J is unable to watch others, he knows how to behave. You and Jabber aren't his parents or related to him in any way. He must know he us making a mess and not offering to help. Maybe he is modeling your son, but he must understand that your son is your son...that, although he isn't using the manners he has, that you will put up with more from him because he's your son.

If J doesn't get that, I'm not sure he has the capability of reasoning at a high enough level to function in life. He sounds awful.

Lil unless you adopt every child in every orphanage in every country and start offering every homeless stranger a home, you can't save everyone. The task is too large. You don't even want your son hanging out with J...why let him stay with you and eat all your food?

I know why. You have such a kind heart. I get it. You are just such a nice person. Wish I was half that nice.

You need to change your handle, by the way. If I type your handle and put a comma after it, my tablet will call you Lol. And that always does make me laugh. So if I forget to lose the comma and type, Lol you will understand.

 

[Lil]

It's not that either of them do anything awful. They don't smoke in the house. They don't usually leave dirty dishes, although there is a bowl in the room now. They just do so many small things that make us feel taken advantage of.

 

[BusynMember]

I get it. At their ages they should be clean, thoughtful of others and eager to help with chores. I think you said J is 30 years old. I hope I'm wrong because if this us J at 30, far from a kid, I don't know that he will ever change. That's old to still be mooching off of a younger friends parents. He should be mature enough to at least be grateful enough to control his appetite and pitch in around the house.

 

[Copabanana]

Sorry Lil, I missed your thread I was so self-absorbed.I agree with everybody else, but will add my two cents.

I think that he is manipulating you.

The suicide threats are a manipulation until they are not. Any threat can be serious, but that said, even in prison we will call them on it if we know it is instrumental. Because nobody should be allowed to manipulate that way. Your son is an adult. He cannot be allowed to hold you or anybody else hostage. Eventually, everybody, each of us, is responsible for sustaining or not their own life.

Sooner or later will come a time where you cannot hold your son up. As much as you love him, he will have to choose to live or to die.

What good will buying another month do?

I agree with Jabber, here. It only postpones the eventual reality that he will have to do something or not. And if he decides, not, the costs will have to accrue to him.

We have kicked him out. But we had good cause - he was stealing from us. It seems a bit ... different to kick him out due to his inaction.

You are not kicking him out. There was an agreement. He is an adult. He is responsible for himself.

The idea that he expects to be paid to mow the lawn is ludicrous to me. Lil, your son still believes that it is your responsibility to sustain him as if he was a child. That is what has to change. You are not doing this to him. He is doing this to himself.

Personally, I would pay the $400 for the 1st month, making sure he is aware that that is the only money you will give. Anything else is his responsibility.

Even though I think this only kicks the problem down the road, I think this is a good idea.

I wish there was a way to put conditions on him being able to live at home and he would agree to them. Drug tests, chores, therapy.

PASA, Lil and Jabber's son, as I recall, has not done anything to show them that he is motivated to change as a way to stay.

He's got no one

You are talking about J here, Lil. Who cares if J has no one? What are you running, a homeless shelter? Really now. You need two of them, one is not enough? I agree with SWOT that J is homeless because he does not give a to act better and he has worn out his welcome everywhere else.

If he was a good house guest, if he kept his room clean, did some chores without expecting payment

This is a power struggle, lil. He wants the power. Why would he pay? Why would he clean? Why would he shower? Why would he work?

He will only do those things if he decides. The only thing that will make him decide to do those things, is if he sees it is worth his while to do them. That by not doing them, it costs him something. Right now, he does not feel the need. He is still playing to win, on his terms. He is not giving an inch. He is betting that you will fold, lil. You may this time, but tomorrow is another day.

What about Job Corps? The military?

 

[Copabanana]

make us feel taken advantage of.

Lil. That is because you are being taken advantage of. These are grown men, lil, only one of whom is your flesh and blood. The two of them both seem to be making a practice of making other people responsible. The fire can only go so far....

Why do you feel guilty to not let him stay? Are you a little bit mad? He is blowing it. On purpose. lil. This is a power play. There were other jobs besides walking around with a sandwich board and a chicken head. He knew about Job Corps. He knows what he needs to do. He is extremely capable and smart. He is choosing not to do it, and threatening suicide as his trump card. Are you not mad? You raised him to be a better person than this. Get mad, lil.

 

[Lil]

I think you said J is 30 years old.

It's his buddy from college K who is 30. J is 21, a few months younger than my son. They were in high school together.

 

[Lil]

Lil. That is because you are being taken advantage of. These are grown men, lil, only one of whom is your flesh and blood. The two of them both seem to be making a practice of making other people responsible. The fire can only go so far....

Why do you feel guilty to not let him stay? Are you a little bit mad? He is blowing it. On purpose. lil. This is a power play. There were other jobs besides walking around with a sandwich board and a chicken head. He knew about Job Corps. He knows what he needs to do. He is extremely capable and smart. He is choosing not to do it, and threatening suicide as his trump card. Are you not mad? You raised him to be a better person than this. Get mad, lil.

I wish I could. I get mad...but it doesn't last. He's just so LOST sometimes.

 

[Copabanana]

Lil. When you feel better will you tell me about your Boston Terriers? I always wanted one (my whole life long) and never had one.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I think you said J is 30 years old. I hope I'm wrong because if this us J at 30, far from a kid, I don't know that he will ever change.

No, thats K, the loser from college. J went to school with our son and recently came back from Texas after his mom kicked him out.

 

[Copabanana]

He's just so LOST sometimes

Lil. He will stay lost as long as it pays off. This kid has acumen. He has confidence. He has guts.

My son is less lost because he knows it will get him thrown out of here if he acts dysfunctional. Oh? Feeling dysfunctional? Want to lay it on me? Bye. Bye.

Mom. I'm sorry. It was just a temporary mood. I am feeling better.

Am I heartless? No. If he is lost--he needs to go and find himself. Sad? Go to therapy.

It is not my role as a mother of an adult to listen to whining or woe is me. I will listen once. Twice. But adults handle their problems. Your son is an adult. (By the way, my son is going to therapy, now. He is traveling to the big city a few hours north of here by train. He is going once a month for a two hour session. He has gone once and says he is going back July 6th.)