I don’t know how to help.

[BusynMember]

Your daughter is dangerous. This is above and beyond suicidal depression.

Only she can get help, if she wants it.

Your daughter is still young. In five years, if this still continues you probably will have changed your mindset. We end up doing things we never dreamed possible, like getting so fed up or abused that we do throw them out. Not saying you will, but its possible. Both depression and anxiety are very common and it does not cause people to go as ballistic as your daughter did. Perhaps more is going on. Who knows? Psychiatry is an inexact science. Your daughter may have a personality disorder. Borderline? Look it up. There are no tests to find out for sure though. No way to nail "why".

I hope she does not hurt anyone while you go through the same growing pains all of us had to go threw before we decided we had to pdotect ourselves and our other loved ones from being chronic victims.

Go at your own pace. Talk to us. You know this cant continue this way. And it wont. You will eventually change if she does not. Life is like that. Life does not stay the same.

You are in the early stages, but you will grow stronger. People can only take so much, even from a beloved child, and as they get older, and if they refuse help and keep acting badly, usually our perspective changes. You still think of her as a child. This is common...at first.

I wish you the strength to learn and grow and to see her as the young woman who is old enough to serve in our military.

None of your daughters diagnoses do far would explain her being mean. Drug abuse would explain, but she isnt using drugs so this is her. I was in a psychiatric hospital at 23 for ten weeks (voluntarily and got tons out of it) and extremely mentally ill patients were with me, way sicker than me. Yet most were some of the kindest people I ever met. Your daughter has a problem bring not so nice. It is not due to her depression or anxiety. That is seperate.

It is totally up to you how you deal with it. No judgment and sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have mental illness too so i get it. And as one who was quite sick, i dont feel your daughter is doing well at all and she isnt trying. Not trying is on her shoulders. It was not fun for me to admit myself to a psychiatric ward at 23, with no parental support, but I desperately wanted to get well. And I did. Your daughter needs to have this same desire and needs to admit to herself that she is being unkind to her kind, beloved mother and cut it out. Yes, she can and should stop the abuse...and she can. Dont buy that she has to abuse you. It is baloney. I hope you set your first boundary as no abuse or no toys...phone, car, money etc.

Love and light to your family.

 

[New Leaf]

Aloha Lynn,
I am so sorry for your situation, it is a very hurtful thing to not know which way to turn. To not know how to help. Or, how not to help. To give up so much, for so long.
I was reluctant to respond to your post because I have such a different scenario, thinking my two did not exhibit the behaviors you write of with your daughter. Kind of feeling I have not experienced the degree, how could I help?
Then I thought some more about it.
In reality, there are many similarities I see.
The difference being that the behaviors were spurred on by drug use. Or were they? It's the chicken or the egg question, which came first?
I didn't know it at the time, that they were experimenting with such mind altering substances.
Hubs and I tried and tried and tried to help, and became conditioned to a crisis mode in the sanctity of our home.
Clearly, our two needed help, looking back, we were in the same predicament you find yourself in now.
Stuck.
Stuck between wanting the best for our kids, grandkids, and literally giving over ourselves and the sanctity of our home in desperation for a solution.
Tough stuff.
The thing that struck me about your post, is that your daughter surfs.
Surfing is not an easy sport. It takes a certain resilience and sense of self. Not only is one up against the elements, paddling through the white water, out to the lineup, you are up against others out there, positioning yourself for a wave that everyone out there wants to be on.
This tells me that with the right motivation, your daughter can make it, if she wants to.
Why would she want to, if she always has you to do things for her? To carry the load?
My two would switch so easily from sullen, depressed, irritable and downright verbally abusive. Cell phone rings, happy chatter, laughter, etc.
Put the phone down, same old same old.
Instantaneously
Alakabam!
Huh.
As I took my walk this morning, I thought about our situations with our d cs, the Helen Keller movie suddenly popped into my head.........her parents just did not know what to do for their child. Remember the scene where she would walk around the table and just help herself to everyones plate?
I think our d cs become like this when we pull out all the stops to help them. Raging, entitled, expecting the world to revolve around them because of their "issues".
I think the one thing you might try to focus on, is that you will not be around forever to save your daughter from whatever ails her.
Me too. I have to focus on that.
To stop myself from stepping in.
Posting here on CD is a great step for you, there is so much experience here. I find that writing helps me to fortify my resolve. To find solutions. There is no one answer for anything, but the folks here sure have some wise advice and understand what we go through.

Her choice will be to move in with me but she has to go to doctor and get on medications or to move out on own. If she cycles I will call 911. I am done with the violence, drama and meanness.

This is from your July post. So your daughter has had almost four months of this living arrangement and it seems that it is status quo, she hasn’t changed.
No one can say that you didn’t try, and please stop bashing yourself for whatever you do.
We all have to find our way through this.
Most of us here came to this point right where you are that we knew enough was enough, but didn’t know how to get out of the awful of it.
It is not an easy process and there will be some advice that seems doable, other advice, not. We are not experts, just folks at different places on the journey.
I don’t think anyone can give you a step by step
solution. Each circumstance is different. What you will find is a place here to vent, find others who get it, find your way back to yourself enough to be able to see some answers.
You can do this.
It won’t be an easy fast fix. By slowly building yourself and taking it one step at a time, one day at a time, you will figure it out.
On this Halloween day, I will leave you with this quote from one of my favorite movies. For you and your daughter

Again, welcome, keep posting, it really helps.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Ironbutterfly]

Many of us started as you, with a Difficult Child with issues of varying degrees, everyone has a different story but really the same plot. Our Difficult Child's have issues, mental, emotional, drugs, bipolar, personality disorders, rages, sense of entitlement when they don't get what they want, failure to make a break from the family or friends. We too, were scared to take the first of many steps, set limits, give them many chances, find and get them doctor's, rehab. Then we get to the point of kicking them out of the house, then no money for phones, cars, drugs, etc. Some get to the point where they have to call the police and file charges. Then the parents who have Difficult Child's who are in jail for months to years. Then sadly, those parents who have lost the battle and had to bury their Difficult Child's. There are many success stories here as well.

My point is this is your walk. You will know when you have had enough and have hit rock bottom and need to save yourself and let your Difficult Child find their way, whatever that will be. Eventually you will find incredible strength to do things you didn't think you could (ie kicking your Difficult Child out, calling the police, detaching emotionally, mentally and physically if only for a while).

I never thought I could stop being my son's payee, I never thought I could stop taking his phone calls for 6 months, I never thought I could place him in a residential home during his teen years, I never thought I could handle the thought of him being homeless, being an addict, a beggar. I never thought I could see him walked into a court room in an orange suit and chains. But I did. I cried and was at peace for a while when a small window of time he was living right and making good decisions. But then, the tide turned and he went back to the old way of living. It is what it is now because of his choices. I'm ok with it because there is nothing more I can do. I am sad that what I had pictured for his life will most likely never be- He is mentally challenged and I knew his life would be some what limited but I never thought at age 36, he is where he is yet again. I mourn the loss of his life being anything more then what it is...will continue to be.

 

[Sam3]

That's the arc, as I have never seen it put so perfectly, Iron Butterfly. Thank you.

For Lynn34, at the beginning of the arc,

Our kids have expressed such dire, minute to minute needs that we have come to believe that if we do not respond correctly, minute to minute, that it will be certain disaster. Your daughter "going sideways" as you say, may feel like that disaster.

But it's probably not.

First of all, even if she's not overreacting out of habit, they are just feelings. It is harder for us to live with our child feeling bad feelings sometimes, than for us to feel them first hand.

But think about when you do have terrible sadness or anger -- it is awful. But it is not intolerable. It may not be intolerable for her either, even if she is acting out. That might just be her method.

But it also might just be the method she's become accustomed to.

If she is actually the ticking time bomb she presents herself to be, then she needs more help than you can provide, anyway. She would be more like a patient -- in need of professional help.

Neither scenario gives you much choice about what you can or should do.

To become stable, she needs treatment and/or to grow up. So you're right back to how you can force those things. Whatever you do or say, she will rain down the backlash. That doesn't make it any less necessary.

We can't condition making the right decisions on them "buying in." We would hope they do -- but we are the adults for a reason.

You asked how to start. Take a breath and a break. Truly depressed/anxious people might be self destructive at times, but they don't usually wave around a grenade and make their loved ones responsible for keeping in the pin.

 

[Littleboylost]

I read REs post and feel bad about how abrupt mine was in comparison.

Stories of similar mistreatment over and over posted by aching parents feel like fighting words to me right now. I must be in the anger phase of grief.

It didn't help that my son rolled out the FOG again today. The gist of
it was that I'm dead to him unless I'm going to replace his phone and otherwise support him.

I know one thing. I'm emotionally dead to manipulation at this juncture
I think in part because of all the tales I've read here.

That sounds dreary but it's a good place to get to.

I didn't start there though. I started in disbelief and anguish too. I'm sorry my comment seemed to suggest a fast track to the process.

Sorry for the FOG Sam. Tough tough stuff. As numb as we feel it gets to us on some level. Stay strong you are not alone.
Often times I find I post from a place of being triggered as well. Then I realize I am posting to myself vs responding to the comments made.

We are all wounded here and we all mean well. We learn to take what we need and leave the rest on the forum.

Stay strong you are not alone. We are all in this battle together.

 

[Littleboylost]

the

Indeed Leafy your quote is perfect. My son is finding life is pretty tough on his own. All the good time Charlie's who were so promoting him to "Screw his parents and leave home" have all let him down (of course we knew that would happen).
To my surprise he is still going to school. Even though he now has to catch 2 buses to get there.

He told me he has changed his entire friends group and does not do Xanax any more. Well it's a start but it has only been 2 weeks so let's give it a few more.

He has asked to go for an intake interview at long term rehab and thankfully they kept his application open so I have arranged this.

It just goes to show that letting go and getting out of their way is a very hard thing but it is the only thing that will help. Enabling status who just doesn't work.

Lynn
Although our situations are different; there are definitely similarities. Sometimes we need to detach and get out of their way.

To say that you read. Thee are some excellent resource books to help you with this process.

There is no step by step manual as every situation is different and unique. However the basics are the same. Stop enabling, detach and get out of their way. It is up to them to seek help and make themselves better. We can not do it for them.

Oh how I wish love could cure all of this drug addiction and mental health issues. Is it could not a single one of us would be here. Here is the Link to the book I reccomend. There is also a work book.


Stay strong. You Re headed in a healthy direction.

 

[TerriH]

Lynn, I just want to give you a hug. I do understand.

My daughter was stuck as well. She eventually got herself un-stuck by moving in with an on-line friend, and it turned out very badly.

I have no advice to give. I do not know what the answer is. I do want to say that this will change, and in time your daughter will grow up. And when she does, everything will be different. I do not know if she will do well or not, but things will, at least, be different.

Gentle hugs,

Terri

 

[susiestar]

(((((hugs)))))

I am sorry the situation is so difficult!!!

I don't know what medications she has tried. I do know that if she is bipolar, this isn't going to improve without the right medications. Many people do not know that there is a medication protocol that seems to be very helpful for bipolar. It is slow to go through but very worth it. Many psychiatrists don't want to bother with it because it takes time to get results. They want fast results so they go with medications that give fast but short term results. Their fast results don't give long term stability. They often don't give good results either.

The protocol I am talking about was approved by the boards that approve both adult and child/adolescent psychiatrists (I cannot remember the right initials for it). The protocol starts with one mood stabilizer. It can take up to 6 weeks to get this up to the therapeutic level to see if it is working. Another mood stabilizer may need to be added and titrated up to a therapeutic level. Again, it will take about 6 weeks to get to a therapeutic level in your system. Then you add an atypical antipsychotic if needed. It will take 4-6 weeks to titrate up to a therapeutic level. If there are still symptoms of depression or adhd, a very small dose of an antidepressant or stimulant may be given to deal with that. Any other symptoms will be addressed next.

The patient will take the antidepressants and stimulants in very small doses later in treatment for a reason. This type of medication will cause an extreme reaction. Patient will need to be monitored closely on these medications. They can cause mania in patients with bipolar, so the patient must be very careful.

If you can get your daughter to try this regimen, even though it will be tough to stick to during the beginning parts, it will likely help a lot. I have seen several friends and several difficult children go through this regimen. The initial stages of titrating up on the mood stabilizers are not fun but once the moods are stable, the whole thing is so worth it. It really, truly is.

As for how mean she is, that is just bad behavior. Why not just walk away or end the conversation each time she is rude, mean or disrespectful to you? My brother used to be disrespectful to my mother. She started just walking away. She wouldn't say anything to him. At first he suggested that my father have her evaluated for Alzheimers, which made us laugh and laugh. She is sharp as a newly sharpened knife. She deals with my brother's finances! He finally figured out that if he was polite and nice, she stayed around. If he was aggressive and disrespectful, she wandered away. The funny part was that it took him three months!! He is a bit slow sometimes. She never said a single word about his behavior. She simply walked away when he got angry, rude, mean or disrespectful. Give it a try with your daughter. What could it hurt?