I need to be tied to the mast.

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
I also love this analogy..... sometimes when my mind goes into this place of thinking about worst case scenarios.... or the other place is when I start thinking about all the what if I hads..... I have to tell myself to just stop and get up and do something else. But I like just change the channel. I am going to remember that. I really think one of the best coping skills there is, is good old distraction... finding something else to do, hopefully something else you like to do to get your mind off whatever it is.
 

CrazyinVA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I know these feelings so well .. and my heart goes out to you, Copa. Others have said all the things I would say but I just had one suggestion about the mail: if you don't want to deal with collecting bills/mail for him, you can always write "not at this address" on the envelope and put it in the outgoing mail. I've done that before.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
So. I called my son. And he texted back. It was all very brief. He was surly. Dramatic. He said he has been homeless these past 2 months, and trying to survive. He said he anticipates dying in the cold when winter comes. He plans on dying or killing himself by January.

He was rejecting and punishing. He wrote he has no hope.

When I responded with something loving, he wrote, that he does not hate me, but hates himself. He says he has no memories of our life together (which was very good.) He did not respond when I told him our cat has kidney disease. It was all self-pity and anger, directed at me.

No responsibility. No consciousness. No awareness of his own role in this. No sense of the future, except to die. Rejection of the past as non-existent. Just he's depressed. Without hope. Without memory. Without options. Totally black.

I was on the way on the train to a medical appointment, and told him so, and texted after, and he has not responded.

Earlier today I read TL's thread. And I loved it. And agreed with everything. The ideas that touched me personally the most were the following:

The need to stand your ground, to not tolerate abuse, to set boundaries. Not to help them, but to protect oneself, just because we matter. To have a sanctuary because we matter. Not because it will achieve some result other than in oneself and one's life.

The reminder of our own magical thinking: that if we don't help them, if we detach, they will hit bottom and go into recovery, etc.

That we can decide to show our love for them, and manifest it, and show support, just because, as long is this is without the idea of controlling the result or rescuing.

The idea that we know what to do, if we stay located in ourselves. That there is an inner knowing, if we can just not flip out, and panic, and jump into them.

So, after this exchange, to say I am deflated and discouraged is a huge understatement. I feel devastated.

It means I cannot safely show love to my son. He lashes out at me. This is what he did in the past; the dying part. He had stopped making threats, but how is this different?

I am not safe with any communication with him. If this is what he does. I recognize that by sending the text to change his address, he experienced this as rejecting. I see it was an error. But I am so upset.

I lose my sense of self. When he is like this. I want to offer everything...to take away...my own pain....But I know I cannot. He did not want to pay the rent. It took somebody 4 hours to clean out the tub which had been pristine when he moved in. He just wanted to smoke marijuana. I basically provided a drug pad.

I want to be in a relationship with my son that is loving and close, to the extent we both want where I am not consumed, and he is not controlled. And I can stay in myself, and at the same time, support him.

The only thing I can think of right now is to try to pack myself up back into myself, and to just wait it out. This time he did not ask to come home. He did not ask for money. He was just mean. And depressed. And lashed out.

I feel like leaving the country. For real. Just running away.
 
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Elsi

Well-Known Member
Oh Copa. I am so sorry. I read your posts and sometimes I feel like we are parenting the same child. Or man - I have to remind myself that these are grown men we are taking about.

I have had this same conversation with C. The suicide threats. The defeat. The ‘nothing I can do so may as well not change’ mentality. Are the suicide threats real or manipulation? I don’t know. I think the despair is real. But I can’t fix it.

I don’t have answers either, except to reinforce what you’ve already said: you matter, and your life and health and peace matter. And there is no guarantee we can save them even if we bring them home or pay to put a roof over their heads. We’ve tried that. And it didn’t work. They are operating day to day, with no thought to the future or how the actions they take (or fail to take) today will affect that future.

Do what you must do to protect yourself. We have given them everything a parent owes a child and then some. They will keep taking as long as we let them. At this stage, it should be a two way street, a more equal relationship with support and love flowing both ways. Grown kids should be able to help their parents as much as the other way around. We are not meant to pour and pour and pour of ourselves our whole lives and never get anything in return. It can’t be sustained, or endured. We are not God, with infinite capacity to give of ourselves and absorb abuse without refreshing our spirits.

It makes me so sad to think we may never have a relationship with our wayward ones the way it is supposed to be. But it is the reality we have right now. I’m so sorry.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Thank you Elsi.

M came home. He says I should do this: Tell my son he can provisionally come back and live in the other house, pay nothing, the only condition is that he be clean when he come and voluntarily test for drugs daily. That the day that he refuses to test or tests dirty, he leaves. M does not think my son will accept being without his drug. I don't know what to do.
 

Elsi

Well-Known Member
You have an empty house he can stay in?

I don’t know what to advise you. What’s the end game? How long would you,let him stay? What steps would you expect him to take not just towards sobriety but towards true independence? What will greater contact and entanglement do to your own health and sanity? Who is overseeing the drug tests and who will ensure he leaves peacefully if he fails? What if he fails a drug test in the middle of January when it’s subzero temps and he has nowhere to Go? How much additional drama can you stand?

These are the questions I ask myself with C. It’s why I’ve preferred trying to help him get set up elsewhere as opposed to bringing him home. Because I know if I bring him home it will end in an ugly eviction sooner or later that will break my heart and damage our relationship. Because I can’t see a positive end game in scenario. Because I’d rather risk money than my heart.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
Oh Copa I am so sorry he is so depressed and trying to put it all on you. This is his pain. You hurt because you love your son and it hurts when they are in pain.

You did show him love. That is all you can do. You can know within yourself that you did that. Whether he takes it in or not is on him.

Thinking of you tonight!
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I think we need to tie M to the mast too.
How many rounds of this do you need to go through?
Your son and my daughters, know all the wrong words to say, to get us all twisted up inside and right back to square one. They are experts. Perhaps they know us better than we know ourselves.
Not trying to negate his depression or talk of suicide, I am sorry Copa, that is more than rough.
I think it’s emotional abuse.
Even if he means every word.
It’s horrible.
I would be devastated too.
Is that not the reaction he would hope for? So deep in despair that you would acquiese and try one more time?
I don’t know, Copa.
I just don’t know.
I am sorry for the pain of it.
Leafy
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, dear woman...your son remembers his childhood. He does not have amnesia. My gut feeling is that he is not mentioning coming home, but hopes to be invited. I believe he is trying to scare you for favors

Here is a thought; an option that you can totally reject but it IS outside of the box as well as your comfort zone. Sometimes for US, we need to give in a bit and say "Uncle." For us, not them. Please know your well being is on my mind when I offer this option. It is meant kindly.

J's homelessness and possibly fake (or real) suicide threats scare and sadden you. For your sake, not his, what if you let him stay in your spare house or a part of it. Let him smoke his dang pot. Its legal there and he has not used harder drugs. This is for YOU, not his welfare. Will he work? Probably not. Let him be. You will not suffer about him being on the streets without hope if he is there.

You dont have to interact much if you dont want to and you dont have to pay attention to what he does/doesnt do. But you can stop worrying about the streets and he doesnt have to live with you.

Is it perfect? NO!

It would be only to help YOU

I am not saying you should even consider this. I am only offering a new idea, which you can fully reject.

I hate how these adult kids scare us so. At least J. is not using drugs that are illegal or cause violence.

I sincerely hope you can find that elusive peace.

Love and light!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Yes. Just over two years ago I bought a fixer upper house that has a second unit over the garage. The idea was to fix up that apartment which backs up to an alley in the back of the property for him to live with roommates or alone, if that could work.

He has lived there during two different stints. I would say, he lived there a year all together. The neighbors loved him. But he refused to pay rent, wanting to use all of his SSI money for marijuana. Eventually, we held he line, and said leave. That was the place he was squatting in the yard.

I became terrorized and traumatized. My help has only helped him destroy himself more. A few years ago, he was doing more or less okay, when he was helping M work. But it drove M crazy as my son never really tried. But the structure helped. And he was living in my house. And the constant vigilance helped. But he never accepted our rules. He never stopped the marijuana and whatever else he uses.

Because I know if I bring him home it will end in an ugly eviction sooner or later that will break my heart and damage our relationship.
My son told neighbors of the other house that he was going to make us evict him and deliberately received mail there with the idea of making a case. It is amazing how they can turn help and care, into an adversarial relationship.

I put into the text screen the offer, and could not bear to send it. It felt like I was walking a plank. I am not fit to have him close to me. If I tell the truth, that is it. I wanted to show him love. It seems I cannot.

Thank you Elsi. I may still do it. Just throw in the towel. I am not strong enough to deal with this. I started fantasizing about leaving the country. Which is doable. I would just leave, I think.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
At least J. is not using drugs that are illegal or cause violence.
We don't know, now, do we what he is using? He comes back each time with something new.

I don't think M would agree to have him back using the marijuana. It would probably mean the end of our relationship. My son is really, really debased, on the pot. He weaves when he walks. He can't even hold himself up. He is going down, down.

While I like the concept of no conditions, my fear is that I would be participating in his self-destruction. Yes. If he stays at the other house and I am not involved with him, my emotions are more controllable.

But he does not want to pay rent, or if at all, a little, he paid maybe $1000 in two years total. That means all of his SSI goes to bad stuff.

He used to be a health nut. Now he lives on tobacco, pot, nicotine stuff, caffeine pills, junk food, energy drinks and supplements. This is the lifestyle I would be subsidizing. And then there is the issue of his non-compliance with medical treatment for his liver. I would feel like I was watching him die. Really. I have no control here. None at all.

If I said, pay me rent, he might one month; but then the tug of war would start again. I am asking a very nominal amount, $350 for everything for a two bedroom apartment. He could have handled it easily because he gets more than $900 a month. All of this misery for him, is because he did not want to pay rent.

If I accept that nothing I do will influence him to help himself; and nothing I can do will influence to treat me with reciprocity; and the only thing I can do to help him feel better is to give him a crash pad to use all of his money for marijuana, is that the right thing to do?

The reason it is not a solution to ease my anxiety is because of this: I am afraid to die. I had hoped he could make progress so I would not be afraid to die. I will have to leave an attorney as an administrator. It will cost maybe $1500 a month in fees, to have the money protected so he does not blow it all in a month, like he did my mother's money (2 weeks.)

So. Giving him a crash pad, with no conditions. Makes me have to accept this will not get better.

I wish I was an alcoholic. So I could drink.

But I will talk to m about your idea swot. Thank you.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
You did show him love. That is all you can do. You can know within yourself that you did that. Whether he takes it in or not is on him.
Thank you, TL. I agree with you.
I think we need to tie M to the mast too.
Me too. He is always the one to weaken. And then he says he did it for me.

I told him: I don't think I can take it. I am traumatized. I am terrorized. I don't think I have the strength.

He said: You can't have it both ways. Either help him. Or let him be. And don't suffer so.
I think it’s emotional abuse.
I do too. I sure felt like :censored2:.

I was a loving mother. We had a loving relationship. This is a nightmare. A long nightmare that keeps getting worse.

I do not know the answers here. This last week or so here on the forum we got to the place of love with our kids, that wasn't enabling and wasn't controlling and conditional. And I wanted to show love.

Whack.

I am remembering what I wrote to you, New Leaf. When your daughter wrote that mean letter from jail. I told you to cut her loose. That it was unsafe to have any contact with her. That she had no sense of responsibility. And did not see you as a human being with feelings. She saw you as an It. Not a "thou." And how can you have a real relationship with somebody who sees you as an it, and object. Or even subject yourself to that kind of treatment with an open heart.

I made a mistake when I texted him to change his address. We were having a couple of nice texts before that. He even accepted "no" he could not come home.

The thing is now he is surely without money to buy dope. So he is "unmedicated."

My son has to know in his heart that he can come back if he is clean. He does not want to be clean. And there it is.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
This is what he wrote. (These are different texts put into paragraphs.)

Just go live your life. You don't need to bother with me anymore.

Goodbye once and for all. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Right.

We won't see each other anymore. I'm depressed and don't think I'll make it until New Years.

I've lost everything. I have no hope. I'm just waiting for the extreme cold to come and deal with me.

Best wishes.

Never again. This is the last exchange of words. I've made my plans already.

Goodbye.

I plan on dying in December or January.

I hate myself, not you. There aren't any memories. Not anymore.

_____

And then radio silence. At the end I started begging.

I feel wiped.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
Copa I feel for you. I can imagine my son doing this kind of thing to me when he was depressed... I remember all so well when he was on the streets in the middle of winter in Denver. It was awful... and my son has been suicidal as well. It is scary. So I totally get your fear and your dilemmas in this.

Here is the thing... You have absolutely no control over his drug use.... and who knows if it is just pot. That is what he says but you don’t know. If you give him a place to live you dont want to be in a position of trying to determine if he is using drugs or not. It gets you too involved in his drug use or not, and sets up him to totally hide and lie to you. I have been there done that and you dont want to be in that position. So if you give him a place to live I think it has to be as SWOT says knowing he will use and letting it be. I dont recommend that option but I get it if you choose it.

Your posts about finding the place within yourself and finding your own life are right on. It is really hard to do right now given your worry and his latest texts but now more than ever it is time to work towards that.

It is times like these that I say the serenity prayer to myself over and over..... I am not a religious person but I do find the serenity prayer comforting and true. God Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. You can’t change him, you cant change his drug use.... it all comes back to all you can do is love him and love yourself.

TL
 

Elsi

Well-Known Member
Oh Copa. It is so hard to see those words. It IS a form of abuse, and manipulation, even if they think they mean it. My ex used to threaten suicide when I threatened to leave. Knowing my father committed suicide, and those words were a major, major emotional trigger. We danced that dance for years. When I finally left my youngest and I ended up in a DV shelter and then in a safe house for a few weeks while things blew over. He bombarded me with suicide threats through text and voicemail. I sent police over for wellness checks twice, which made him mad.

He never committed suicide. He found a way to carry on. And remarried Two months after the divorce was final.

With C, and with your son, we have no way of knowing whether they mean it or not. But my gut is that a threat for suicide at some time in distant future is more manipulation than not. I’m not saying the pain is not real, or that they don’t think they mean it on some level. And of course I can’t guarantee I’m right, for either of them.

But I also know what it feels like to battle crippling depression. I am my father’s daughter. One thing about being a child of a parent who commits suicide is it is always on your mind, as a tantalizing option, a way out. I have never taken that way out, even at my worst, because I also have children and I know what it would do to them. But I have had times when I spend each day just willing myself to get through the day, and not make any permanent decisions, by reminding myself that I still have the option tomorrow if things don’t get better. I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone who’s never been there. But I know when I am at my worst, the depression narrows my focus to now, maybe tomorrow at the longest, not three or four months from now. If I truly thought, at my worst, that I would have to feel that way another three or four months straight, I wouldn’t make it. The full blown depression is just too crushing. At those times it is my sense of duty and responsibility that saves me, more than an actual desire to live. So I keep putting one foot in front of the other until finally it starts to lift.

What I have come to with C and his suicide threats is the knowledge that I can’t control his feelings or his choices, anymore than others can control mine. And if he does one day take that way out, it will not be my fault. I don’t know, if it came to it, if I could hold onto that knowledge in the moment. But I know it now.

The other thing I have realized is that if he has options he chooses not to take, or opportunities he chooses to squander, that is also not on me.

Your son has $900 a month in SSI. That gives him options. It’s $900 a month more than C has right now. He could choose to find someplace to stay with that. He doesn't have to be outside in the cold weather. He is choosing to not take that option.

If it were me, i think I would make coming back to the apartment contingent on giving you some form of power of attorney control over the money. And tell him x amount will be coming out for rent, and you will be monitoring spending on the rest. And that he has to stay clean and sober there. It is an option. He can take that option instead of being cold, lonely and in despair. He could give you full control of the money and let you House him and feed him and ensure he has clothes, like a child. Or he can be a man and make his own choices, and live with them.

As you and SWOT reminded me last week, you’ve never heard of a child on this board freezing or starving to death, no matter how cold the winters get. You reminded me that they can go south, even go to another country where $900 a month would have him living like a king. If he’s capable enough to be given control over his own money he could make that choice, right? He has options, even if he chooses not to accept the conditions you would need to have him at your apartment again.

And he would be choosing. You are not rejecting him, he is choosing not to live within the conditions you have set. And they are not unreasonable conditions. Live like a human. Take care of yourself. Be sober.

C also does a lot of marijuana, and considers it medicinal. I hate it. Because I see it making him worse, not better. I’ll concede that the alcohol is a worse problem for him - it makes him violent and out of control. Marijuana does mellow him I guess. He’s thoughtful and philosophical rather than belligerent. But I hate spending money on weed instead of food and shelter, and I really think it’s made his mental health issues worse over time. His anxiety and paranoia cycle harder, and he’s less capable of caring about other things that are important in life. Getting more is all that matters. I’m pro legalization for practical and social justice reasons, but I do think this trend towards legalization has made our kids feel like it is no big deal. And with C, I absolutely think it is making his mental health issues worse with time, even if they make him feel better in the moment.

Stay strong. Remember he is choosing. He has options. He can accept your help, if he also has to accept your terms, in my opinion. That is not cruel. That is love.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Copa, I wish I had more time to respond. But I hope you will recenter and regroup before you make any decisions. His reaction was triggered by you asking to change his mailing address, a perfectly reasonable request. I feel for you, so very much, because I’ve been there. Please do the changing the channel thing before you take a rash step, thinking it will make it stop.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I am remembering what I wrote to you, New Leaf. When your daughter wrote that mean letter from jail. I told you to cut her loose. That it was unsafe to have any contact with her. That she had no sense of responsibility. And did not see you as a human being with feelings. She saw you as an It. Not a "thou." And how can you have a real relationship with somebody who sees you as an it, and object. Or even subject yourself to that kind of treatment with an open heart.
Copa, I read that and made up my mind to cut her loose in other ways. It was a signal for me to work on emotional boundaries, because she knows how to “poke the bear”. What she wants right now has nothing to do with relationship or love, it is what she thinks she needs. If I cave to that, then I am allowing myself to become part of the game.
I did send her a cashiers check, because I felt it was within my means..... just a check, there was nothing more I could write. There was no response, no more phone calls. Then I received a letter, a poem of good memories, more Bible verses and request for more money, a lot, $100.00.
Huh. Um....no.
I found out Tornado was released a few days ago. I don’t know the details, and hope she has been released to treatment.
It is up to her what she does with the opportunity.
There is nothing I can do to fix or change her.
The same for Rain. She seems content to live as is.
I know I can’t and won’t house them anymore. I am cognizant that they don’t see me as “thou”. I am an “it” to them. So be it. I am not an “it”in my minds eye. I won’t be used, won’t support their drug habits, lied to, stolen from, abused. The degradation of living with that is far worse than letting go of the notion that I can control anything my two choose, or the consequences of their lifestyles. That if I put them up, that would bring about change.
It never did.

The difference between you and I is that I have three well children to look towards.
I have oft thought that it is way more difficult to have a one and only wayward child. One egg, in one basket. I am sorry for your heartache.
I see what M is trying to tell you. He is looking for solutions to comfort you, to ease your despair. That is really what it comes down to, what are you comfortable with?
At this moment, after this contact with your son, is your mind and heart really able to make a decision?
That has been the “game” with my two. They will say things that spin me into a frenzy, then I start thinking that I have to do something right this second. There, in that mindframe, I am working from panic mode, in a tailspin. Our adult kids know just how to incite this.
What if you just stepped outside of yourself, change the channel, take some time to breath and think things through.
Nothing needs to be done right away. You have time.
When I start to go down that road, I pray. I go out and work in my garden. Walk. The movement helps to calm me.
Find something to calm you and stop the tailspin. Get grounded. From there, you will be able to think things through.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Gosh. Thank you. As I read through your posts I clicked (Quote) so many times, now I have a million.
Please do the changing the channel thing before you take a rash step, thinking it will make it stop.
Yes. Thank you.

Albatross. You know, I did not remember I could change the channel until I read your post. Either I did not think of it because I was in FOG or because I was the deer blinded by the headlights of my son's words...and paralyzed...it felt too real, for Mother/Adult Child Disaster Channel. I conceptualized that channel as functionally /dysfunctional. I think yesterday I was on a different channel called, The Adult Child Trauma Network, CTN, (I own no stock.)
One thing about being a child of a parent who commits suicide is it is always on your mind, as a tantalizing option, a way out.
I had forgotten this. Thank you Elsi. Yesterday as the train home approached the platform I had the image of my climbing down onto the tracks. Kind of like a vertigo feeling, of wanting to hurl oneself from a height and fearing the inability to restrain oneself--I backed away from the tracks.

And at the same time there was this hitting bottom sense, again. The awareness that I was crashing against the rocks. And that I could tie myself to the mast. The mast of my own life and my own destiny and my own truth.

I have never written on this board what happened 10 weeks ago, that gave me backbone. I did not try to commit suicide myself, but it was something, an unconscious reaction to trauma, when my son was trying to force his way into our house, where something horrible could have happened. I had been forced to see I had to factor myself into the equation. I had become somebody else. i had become less than somebody else. Road kill. Road kill in my own life.

And that was the wake up call.

Tears are coming to my eyes, now. Not for myself, but to that image. That that is what we are dealing with here. All of us. The sadness that we permit ourselves to become road kill in our own lives. How very, very sad for us. That this happens. Not in the newspaper or TV but in our real lives.

I know there is a difference of opinion among us as to whether we get to this point, due to our extreme love or extremely bad patterns of responding to these stressors, or both. But like our children WE ARE capable of learning, and taking responsibility for what we see with our own eyes. I am responsible. For what I see in my own life. I am responsible to myself and to my life.

So. There is lots of learning here.

Last night's sleeping was very bad. We sleep with the cat in our bed and our two dogs are in our room in their beds. The three wake us up all night long. I kept waking up remembering my son is outside in the cold. He has no tent; probably no sleeping bag; and no warm coat. He is probably in a wooded area behind a shopping center a few hundred yards from a bay. It is a wet cold. I find this juxtaposition intolerable to feel, that my animals are here in the warmth with me, and he is where he is, how he is.

This is the hardest for me, my consciousness of his circumstances. I can bear it if I do not know. Because I can imagine something better.

So. I am clear here. I cannot go back into the way things were. Because however bad the Disaster Channel is the Trauma Channel is worse.

And I came up with a place to stand: I cannot offer him solutions. He needs to come up with one. He is capable of coming up with a solution. Right now his bargaining position, if I infer it from his texts is this: I am degraded. What are you going to do about it?

To offer him a solution from this place, I think, would be an error. But to think about my options is smart. Thank you, people.

I am seeing several options, based upon your posts, my thoughts, and M's contribution.

!. Come back. Smoke weed. I will ignore you and let you be.
2. Come back as a dependent adult. You lose control of the money, and you are clean and sober and you are monitored.
3. Come back, no weed. That's all. We ask nothing else.
4. Stand pat. (We are playing cards here, and I am thinking of my mother) And wait for him to come up with another bid. That the worst thing I could do now is either fold or call. I need more information. And the information that is needed is that he act. That he come up with an idea or a plan or an actual putting something in place, for him. Or even that he come up with another few words in the conversation. That take some responsibility. That mend. That make a next step.

After all this is a relationship. It is not only a manipulation. I am not just the bull to be baited or misled or led with a red flag.

This is the genius essence of the situation:
Or he can be a man and make his own choices, and live with them.
The decision is my son's. Be a man, and live with consequences. Or be a dependent child, and live within constraints. My son is saying: Neither.

My son has always wanted full autonomy and independence of action, without responsibility and real independence. He seeks the range of action of independence while dependent upon others to pay for his lifestyle and to deal with consequences. The jerk.
$900 a month would have him living like a king.
This could be true, Elsi. But could it not end up the same as with my son, who sees his payment as an allowance to buy his fun stuff, and his maintenance of his actual needs, as the responsibility of others, namely us?
You are not rejecting him, he is choosing not to live within the conditions you have set. And they are not unreasonable conditions. Live like a human. Take care of yourself. Be sober.
This is the truth.

What hangs me up is that I begin to get dizzy from thinking, maybe he is incapable of making better decisions. His judgement is horrible.

But M said this last night: Look. The cat and the dogs make good decisions. They want to be comfortable. They come in when it is cold. They do what it takes to be in our good graces. So that they get what they want and need. They learn. J does not want to learn.

But the essence of what Elsi says here is profound. He is choosing. Animals choose. He is too.

Yes. He is depressed. And that does not absolve him from choices. But comfort and security do not seem to help him choose better. He chose poorly when he was here to force our hand, to make us accept 100 percent his conditions and domination. All weed, all of the time. It seems he is still acting from this position. From domination.

All of the decisions really are his to make. I cannot control his story. He controls it. It is a very, very sad story for me, because of my own life story. But I am not the only one here on the forum who had early losses and the bad end of a parent. I am not alone here in having been damaged and having to repeat early traumas and losses vicariously through the behavior of my child and my inability to control it.

This is real life. And I am not alone in it. How much easier this is to type in the light of day, than to feel in the dead of night.

So. I don't know exactly where I am for sure, except for this: I think I will stand pat. For me to fold right now is to collapse into mush. It is to cease to be a person. It is to basically forfeit my whole life. I am not necessarily thinking of my current life. I am thinking about my whole life, the trajectory of my life, as seeking dignity and purpose. I would be giving up that, my sense of self.

There are options for my son. Jail or prison is one. The reality of death, is another. And he knows of a number of more favorable options: treatment, 12 step groups, meditation, work. (He has worked in concrete. He could be a helper. There is a lot of work, if he has not burned his bridges, with these people. He can work under the table. He can admit himself to the psychiatric hospital. He can go to the police. He can go to agencies that help the homeless. All of these things (except death and prison and jail, he has done before. These are actions within his repertoire. They are not all of them, bad. So. I guess what I am thinking is for now, my son has to decide.
Your posts about finding the place within yourself and finding your own life are right on.
This is the bottom line. In so many ways. The wisdom of this is that it forces me to look at my own decisions and my own thinking about my son, as it affects my life right now, and as part of my whole life story.

I am accountable in so many ways. Not just to him. Or to myself and to M, as long as we stay together. I am accountable to my life. To learn the lessons of my life and to change course where I need to. And I am accountable to my life, to live it well. My choices of what to do with respect to my son, have to be compatible with my own life story. Do I take a tragic turn, or something else?

That part of it we seldom acknowledge but I see us doing that all of the time. Holding ourselves accountable for our own life stories, as well as our children's. And for me, the tension is being quite damaged myself and having a father and brother who killed themselves off by drugs and alcohol, but having tried to redeem myself by my acts as a human being. Which has included becoming a mother of a child who himself had been traumatized in worse ways than had I.

And not knowing what to do, when our life stories came to be on a collision course. And having turned away from family, in order to save myself, and then ended up encountering what I had tried to run from staring at it in the mirror. With nowhere to run to. Which really is no different from anybody here.

I will today try to do the best I can for myself. And to pray that he does the same.

What he did to me yesterday was very very mean. Anybody would be reeling. But there are things I can do today to soothe myself. And to keep going.

Thank you very much for your support.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
What if you just stepped outside of yourself, change the channel, take some time to breath and think things through.
Nothing needs to be done right away. You have time.
When I start to go down that road, I pray. I go out and work in my garden. Walk. The movement helps to calm me.
Find something to calm you and stop the tailspin. Get grounded. From there, you will be able to think things through.
Yes.

The thing I am remembering is that the thing all of us say all of the time...and I forget it, in the moment.

All of the comfort, all of the saving, all of the rescuing, did not help. All of that just got us to where we are now. It does not help advance the story. Certainly not my own. And even less, his.

I do not know what he is going to do, and I have to find a way to live with that. But I only have to deal with it an hour or day at a time. There are things I can do. Thank you, New Leaf. I can find something, one thing, and then another to ground myself anew in me and my own life, and make that incrementally better. Thank you, everybody.
 
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