Meeting

[newstart]

I am sorry that your daughter is so very spiteful and mean. Some people never learn that the more you take take take from others, and use use use them, the less it is possible to be happy with yourself.

Just because she has degrees and can earn a good salary doesn't mean she will. You are a very loving and caring mother to have wanted to do all of that for her. I do think that showing her your deposit slip with the balance was foolish. By that time you knew that she was a greedy, grasping grubworm and that she wants your money. It is time to go and change the online passwords to your banking, or to set them up if you do not have them, and to use very strong passwords that are hard to remember and you don't leave lying around. Why? She has already stolen from you by not paying what she should. It is not a big step for her to use her similar name to get into your accounts. If she does this, it would give her a police record in order for you to get the money back. You would have to notify the bank and let them press charges, or maybe even press charges yourself. It is really HARD to do that. An ounce of prevention might be a very good thing. She could steal quite a lot of money.

I think your idea of a divorce from her is a good idea. I do think the car needs to be repossessed from her. Not paying it for 3 months is blatantly telling you that she believes she can live off of your money regardless of the agreements that you make. Taking the car and not EVER giving it back, or giving her another one, is a natural and logical consequence.

Please PLEASE go online and check your credit scores. Make sure she has not taken out credit cards in your name. She could claim it was a typo on the part of the credit card company rather than identity theft on her part. If she tries this, don't buy it. Please get the law involved. She seems determined to be just nice enough to take you for every penny she can get.

I have been here a very long time. I have seen parents who came here after their children had taken every single resource and penny they had. Once they had that last penny, the child said nasty things and just left. I believe this is what your daughter will happily do if you allow it. She has already taken so very much from you. When you cut her off for 3 months, she got just nice enough to get the gravy train flowing and the Bank open again, and then the abuse started all over and worse than before. This is exactly what other parents reported when they cut off their children for a while, even for a few years. If you have to see her after the divorce, there should be NO exchange of anything of value. Not even a Christmas gift. It would just give her the idea that the gravy train was operational again.

I know there is a big thread about not writing your children out of your will, but as greedy as your daughter seems, it might be a healthier option to leave her a very small amount of money, if any. Hasn't she already had so much money it is like an inheritance paid before your death?

You and your husband deserve a fun and peaceful life. You have planned well, worked hard and you should be able to enjoy yourselves and each other, not spend so much time being stressed and upset over your daughter's behavior and spite. I fully support you in being done with her.

Hi Susiestar, The bank accidently gave my daughter the deposit slip, they made the mistake putting her money into my savings account and then giving her the deposit slip where she saw my amount. NO WAY would I have ever let her see my balance.
I think you are right in all areas I just have to get a grip with my momma heart and do what needs to be done. I have to let go of the blinders of my son's death and realize this other child I gave birth to is harming me, it makes my son's death so much louder to have to deal with this person that is out to harm me.
Thank you for your wisdome.

 

[newstart]

Newstart, your daughter hasn't paid her rent or her car payments and it appears her business is closing, the usual consequences of those actions are 1. eviction, 2. repossession and 3. loss of all financial privileges. I would strongly encourage you to start eviction proceedings, sell the house, repossess the car, impose all of the financial consequences immediately. That's "justice." Perhaps talking to your financial advisor to figure out the fastest, easiest and most secure way to remove your daughter from All financial connections as soon as possible. She cannot be trusted with money. She is very sly and manipulative and is used to manipulating you and you are at times it seems, like I've been too, blind to what she is doing or can do......I've learned over time to ask others who are not involved with my daughter or I if there are any "holes in my theories" concerning my daughter because I can't always see the truth of what is going on.....perhaps a professional can help facilitate your cardboard list in ways you are not aware of. Protect yourself. I am concerned that you are not seeing the whole picture.

Newstart, your history with your daughter reminded me of the following old story.....

Girl and the Snake

A young girl walking along a mountain path to her grandmother's house heard a rustle at her feet. Looking down, she saw a snake, but before she could react, the snake spoke to her.

"I am about to die," he said. "It's too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you."

"No," the girl replied. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. And if I pick you up, you will bite me and your bite is poisonous."

"No, no," the snake said. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently."

The young girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and she had to admit he was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.

Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."

She then reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and continued toward her grandmother's house.

Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her!

"How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"

"You knew what I was when you picked me up," he hissed as he slithered away.

What is the moral of the Snake story?

A snake bites you because s/he is a "snake" by nature — and a beautiful liar to charm and manipulate you — until 1) you either open your eyes and ears, wise up and leave, or 2) s/he moves on to the next victim.

The snake doesn't have a conscience or morals like decent, God-fearing people, and any moment of regret s/he may feel, if any, will be quickly forgotten — that's how these kinds of predators operate, it's in their DNA.

You cannot change them.

Recoveringenabler, I have read that story and have called her a snake several times. I truly understand the moral of the story. She is a snake to me. After I blew her off for 3 months she had changed so much and so deep that I thought her awful behavior was behind her. She is almost 36 this is her DNA. As much as I don't want to believe this, the sooner the better and in my heart of hearts I know this as truth..So hard for me because this was not her DNA as a young child. It leaves me so confused. I have to think that this is her DNA as an adult.
Today I am taking action in many directions. Last night my nerves were so bad and my acid reflux was back full force, I laid awake in such agony like someone kicked me in the stomach. It is really more about me being upset with myself for allowing this damn mess again. There will not be a 3rd time. I want so bad to see her prosper and grow and have a good life but that is not for me to want anymore. That is a normal thing I want for anyone, by nature I want to see others succeed and be happy, I actually get great pleasure out of seeing others grow and prosper, I wanted to enjoy watching this with my daughter but she will have to do this on her own. I hardly slept last night trying to come up with a plan on how I was going to get the car back..Making plans, my head is spinning and spinning. Making many plans but also takes step forward to stop this awful disgusting web of crap that I am into. Thank you again for guidance and wisdom and for me to put the hard work in to make this nightmare end.

 

[Triedntrue]

After the truck incident mentioned above several years after he decided to open a business . of course i got sucked in like an idiot. Can you front me this i have a check coming tomorrow and you can get it right back. But of course tomorrow there was something else. Can you pick this up for me i have the money. He didnt. On and on. Even his employees hit me for money on occasion. I maxed out my cards borrowed from my retirement account all like an idiot. Paid his rent several times , bought food, repaired his truck or had it towed using all my tows from triple a. He is in jail but has a job lined up of course he needs 500 to buy what he needs to start the job training. Its the only hope he has according to him. When i tell him i don't have it he says i would have been able to work if you hadn't put me in here. I 302d him and they released him to police very long story. He also blames my councelor because i hang up when he starts swearing thats just the way i talk get used to it. I am just tired of all of it.

 

[newstart]

Hi Tiredmom, It would be nice if you filled out the signture information so we can know a bit more about you and your son. I am so sorry you get suckered into things too. I have furniture that I took over to my daughters spa even after knowing how ugly she can treat me. I set up a nice table, lamp, picture frames etc I wanted to help. How stupid of me. I have to rethink my entire thinking process. No or little contact is what is going to have to happen and the strength to say NO enough is enough. I want her love and acceptance but the price is too high, I have to reroute my need for that and try to get satisfaction somewhere else. I have a cat that gives comfort. He is a busy little guy, always has stuff going on but he is so cute. So wonderful how such a little creature can give so much love..

Detatching is really the only option we have to insure a happy healthy life. Financial divorce is what is going to happen for for me and my daughter. I know she knows that it is getting close to her brothers death date which puts me into a weaken state so her preditory skills will be sharpening..It is very hard to have a dead child and the agony that goes with that and on top of that a preditory child that I have to guard myself from. Does she not care that her brothers spirit can see all this? What an a--.

 

[Triedntrue]

I thought i did the signature dont know what i did wrong

 

[recoveringenabler]

Tired mama, you didn't do anything wrong in regard to your signature, some folks write more, but your's does the job......(it's hard for us to recall each members history, their kids ages, issues, etc. without the signature).

 

[newstart]

I have been getting calls from all the people my daughter owes. Thank God most of these do not have my name on them. I thought my cell number was private but yet the people she owes money to have found it and leaving messages for me to give to her. I just feel grateful that my name is not on these things so I cannot be held for them. Just found out today that my daughter did not pay her HOA fee and it will be used against my rent house if it is not paid. So I have to pay that tomorrow. I am embarrassed to write the amount she owes me because I feel so stupid to have let this happen to me again. I know I keep writing that so what I will do is forgive myself and NOT ever allow that again. I see my beautiful daughter, she has my mothers beautiful lips and perfect skin, my husbands beautiful eyes, I see bits and pieces of my dad's expressions in her face, and then I see my bipolar mother in law in her body movements, cruel words, and mean mouth. My mother in law was a pretty woman, well kept, hair always perfect, clothes always well put together. She has passed and I pray she is finally at peace. I am working on letting go of all the damage she has done to me, years of abuse that almost cost me my marriage. She left her nasty seed in my daughter.

 

[New Leaf]

Newstart, I am so sorry. I am relieved for you that you are not involved with the debt your daughter has accrued (aside from the HOA fees, ouch). Please do not beat yourself up for believing in her and helping her. She is your daughter. If one has the means to help, one does. You don’t have a crystal ball and wouldn’t know the end result. There is nothing wiser than retrospect, of course we can all look back and would have done differently if we had the knowledge then, that we know now.
Most certainly forgive yourself. Then, for what? For being a loving, kind and generous mother? You have no guilt here, it belongs to your daughter for taking advantage of your generosity.
It must be a difficult journey tying up all the loose ends and separating financially. Please take good care of yourself and be kinder to you.
Stop bashing yourself sister.
Your description of your daughter struck me, I feel the same way. My beautiful daughters. It is sad.
I wish things were different for us all here, but we are on this most difficult journey where we have to stand up for ourselves and look reality in the face.
We are people too, we do not deserve to have our kindness abused and used.
I feel that in standing up for ourselves, we are teaching our adult children a valuable lesson.
Self respect.
No matter what, or who, be it our grown children, or other relatives, we are not rugs to be tread upon. No one deserves to be used and mistreated. The only one who is going to change that is us. You are taking steps to stop the abuse of your funds and your heart.
Good for you NS. Stick to your guns and stay strong.
You are not alone.
We are all circling the wagons together.
((( Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Triedntrue]

I know from experience how difficult this can be but remember not to let her actions reflect on you. If anyone says anything to you you can say i am sorry MY DAUGHTER did that to you or owes you money but you will have to take that up with her. When my sons business started having trouble i helped out but then his employees started assuming i was going to take care of what he owed them. I had to tell them i was not responsible for any of the financial issues in his company. He eventually paid them himself. I then restricted myself to helping him personally and have mostly stopped that. We all get sucked in with their sob stories because we love them . Hopefully we will learn from each other and stop.

 

[newstart]

Newstart, I am so sorry. I am relieved for you that you are not involved with the debt your daughter has accrued (aside from the HOA fees, ouch). Please do not beat yourself up for believing in her and helping her. She is your daughter. If one has the means to help, one does. You don’t have a crystal ball and wouldn’t know the end result. There is nothing wiser than retrospect, of course we can all look back and would have done differently if we had the knowledge then, that we know now.
Most certainly forgive yourself. Then, for what? For being a loving, kind and generous mother? You have no guilt here, it belongs to your daughter for taking advantage of your generosity.
It must be a difficult journey tying up all the loose ends and separating financially. Please take good care of yourself and be kinder to you.
Stop bashing yourself sister.
Your description of your daughter struck me, I feel the same way. My beautiful daughters. It is sad.
I wish things were different for us all here, but we are on this most difficult journey where we have to stand up for ourselves and look reality in the face.
We are people too, we do not deserve to have our kindness abused and used.
I feel that in standing up for ourselves, we are teaching our adult children a valuable lesson.
Self respect.
No matter what, or who, be it our grown children, or other relatives, we are not rugs to be tread upon. No one deserves to be used and mistreated. The only one who is going to change that is us. You are taking steps to stop the abuse of your funds and your heart.
Good for you NS. Stick to your guns and stay strong.
You are not alone.
We are all circling the wagons together.
((( Hugs)))
Leafy

Thank you for the love. When I first saw Recoveringenable write 'We are circling our wagons around you' it brought me to tears. And tonight as I read that from you I am sobbing my eyes out. I told my husband last night that my support group is circling their wagons around me and it gives me strength to just visualize that kind of support, it feels like prayer support and sisterhood. My one girlfriend that has a daughter with borderline does not have the lying and stealing that my daughter has, she does not understand it and can not understand the pain that it brings with it. Thank you for the hug and the wagon..

 

[newstart]

I know from experience how difficult this can be but remember not to let her actions reflect on you. If anyone says anything to you you can say i am sorry MY DAUGHTER did that to you or owes you money but you will have to take that up with her. When my sons business started having trouble i helped out but then his employees started assuming i was going to take care of what he owed them. I had to tell them i was not responsible for any of the financial issues in his company. He even itually paid them himself. I then restricted myself to helping him personally and have mostly stopped that. We all get sucked in with their sob stories because we love them . Hopefully we will learn from each other and stop.

Hi Tired moma, I can hear the pain in your writings, I am so sad that your son does you wrong. Yes, lets learn from each other and stop the madness that keeps them enabled. So much I want to take my daughter on another cruise and sit on the balcony and look at the stars in the middle of the ocean and heal our relationship. But in reality it will always be 'off'. A few years back when I thought my daughters problems were her hormones, we took cruises and I always felt connected after we sat out on the balcony late at night wrapped in a blanket talking about the stars. My daughter studied astronomy so it was always nice to hear her talk about the stars and her plans. I don't think we can connect like that anymore. It is so sad. I have to remind myself that nothing and no one ever stays the same.

 

[Triedntrue]

Maybe sometime in the distant future you and your daughter will be able to take that cruise. After she does what is needed to alter her life. If not consider finding someone else to go with you . you still deserve to enjoy your life.

 

[Littleboylost]

Newstart
My heart aches for you. I can feel the grief and pain in your words.

Someone taught me a very valuable lesson and it may well have been our dear Leafy and that was not to allow the negativity from my chismabnd their lack of appreciating of my support and actions make me feel stupid or regretful. I was acting out of love as any mother would do. How my child acts and responds is on them.

Detachment has its slippery slides for all of us. All of us. We are kind loving parents.

I have a niece who is a very nasty, theiving, lying and drugging person. She suffers from bipolar disorder and likes to blame all her behaviour on her illness.

She had a baby and he suffers from delayed development and other issues. He is. Source of income for her. He was removed from her care and she fought to get him back. Behaved as the perfect mother with perfect behaviour. Until she got her son back and then it was right back to her nasty ways. She even sold all the clothes and toys she was given for her son for drug money.

This behaviour told me show could act decently and could take her medication if she chose to and she chooses not too. I am so sad that her little son is caught up in such a terrible life. My sister after many torrid battles and losses both emotionally and financially finally let go and detached. It was a process over time and my niece used her son as a pawn. How awful to do.

It isn’t that we don’t love my niece we just no longer want to associate with her. She lno s we are here if she chooses to clean up her act and her proper help. But her abus was too great and it was time to let go especially for my sister.

Be kind and good to yourself.

Hearing about your little kitty made me smile. Cuddle your kitty and spoil him.

We lost my oldest brother to a tragic accident when he was 19 years old. There is no getting over this loss truly there isn’t. But as time passes the sport and pain lessen and the joy and memoirs become more of a comfort. I think that is a spiritual gift from our loved one who had passed on. It is their way of easing our pain over time. Cherish the joy and memories you have of your son and let his memory comfort your heart.

 

[recoveringenabler]

My therapist told me about "emotional Dysregulation disorder" which is a symptom of borderline behavior. She said it sounded as if my daughter suffered from this. She told me that my daughter likely has no ability to "self validate." That made a lot of sense to me. I decided to validate my daughter's feelings but not validate the behavior. That distinction made a significant difference.

I always felt that my daughter was wanting something from me which I couldn't provide when I was steeped in my enabling of her because I was guarding myself. Plus the anger, resentment and sorrow was always present. Without the negative feelings now, I can be present with her in a different way, validating her feelings. I believe she can now feel my presence and my validation of her, without my rescuing her. It seems as if the love flows freely now.

It takes time to unravel it all. Healthy, unbreakable, strict boundaries are essential. Accepting what we can't change is essential. Putting ourselves as the priority and taking care of ourselves first is essential. Letting go of what we think it should look like is essential.....it is what it is....sigh......

Hang in there newstart and tired mama, you're both doing a wonderful job under awful conditions.....be kind to yourselves.....it WILL shift....stay the course.....

 

[newstart]

Thank you Littleboylost, For your wisdom and the reminder that by giving my love and guidance I was not doing anything wrong.
I was so sad to hear that you lost a brother at such a young age, 19. We just do not know who is next. At each birthday I always say 'getting older is denied to so many'. I know your family was never the same afterwards and I know how your mother feels. It is still unbearable for me.
The hard part about my daughter is that she can fall hard and then come up remorseful but then do it all over again. OFF and ON. I have been reading about people that are part time psychopaths while manic and feel genuine remorse afterwards.
I think if my daughter felt genuine remorse she would stop the awful behavior in the future.
None of us want to think our child is a true psychopath, I bet many of us feel like they are and are to pained to come out with it.
When I have looked at the tests and diagnosis, I am happy to say that I did not see psychopathic behavior in my daughter from ages birth to 13. Then regular awful teen age stuff but then at 19 it was toxic. She was not born a psychopath but not doing anything with her borderline/bipolar is leading to psychopathy. For this reason alone it makes it hard and confusing for me.
I believe I have seen genuine remorse from her but it has been a while.
I am not sure about her off and on boyfriend, it is a love/hate relationship for sure and both of them are addicted to each other and the toxic combination is wicked. I believe the guys mother wants them to break off. But then she just becomes toxic with someone else and the pattern continue until no one can take it any longer.

My daughters abuse is too great and it is time to let go.

I do not even recognize me. When I see a glimpse of myself I look old, frail, beaten, abused and tired. My acid reflex is back hard. One great thing is that I am sleeping ok. Usually when my daughter is off the rails I do not sleep well, wondering and worrying.. I ask God each night to give me the peace that I need so I can get a good night sleep. Nothing like a good night sleep and a good laugh.

I have come up with a plan to get justice. Wheels are in motion and justice will be coming. I have had to work very hard cleaning up my daughters messes, keeping my good credit in tact, making sure she does not put my name though the mud, all of that is time consuming and emotionally draining. I see mothers and daughters shopping and having fun, respecting each other and doing fun things together. I see them, and admire them and wish I had that. I see son's my son's age shopping with their mothers laughing and talking. I so wish I had that. My son was the best partner ever in helping me pick out clothes. He was very honest with his opinion. He did not mind running and getting me a different size. I miss him with each breathe I take.

I noticed that when my husband bought football squares he usually buys one for our son, daughter him and me. This time he bought two for our son and one for him and me. It is his way of letting go of our daughter. He is so sick of her and her never ending grief that she causes on a regular basis.

 

[BusynMember]

Emotional dysregulation disorder IS borderline e. It is NOT bipolar which is controllable. Borderlines crave relationships, literally can't be alone, but screw them up and pick bad matches or ARE bad matches. Borderlines do not find good matches or have long term friends. Bipolar can.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Here is some info about emotional dysregulation disorder, According to this info as well as what my therapist tells me, Emotional Dysregulation disorder can be a component of bipolar.

"Emotional dysregulation is a feature in a large percentage of psychological or psychiatric disorders in the DSM-IV. However, certain psychological illnesses involve the dysregulation of emotions as a prominent characteristic, especially specific types of personality issues. For example, what is commonly referred to as “Borderline personality disorder” (Borderline (BPD)) may also be termed Emotional Dysregulation Disorder (EDD), Emotional Regulation Disorder, Emotional Instability Disorder, Emotion-Impulse Regulation Disorder or Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. Emotional dysregulation is also a central feature of Narcissistic personality and Histrionic personality.

Psychological trauma including Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) may cause significant emotional dysregulation. Persons with PTSD display emotional dysregulation characterized by excessive fear, anxiety, anger or sadness, reactions to a previous severe and often life-threatening traumatic event that are reinitiated.

Mood disorders, such as Bipolar Disorder and depression feature emotional dysregulation. These disorders have alterations of overall mood such as a prolonged decrease in mood level (depression) or elevation (mania or hypomania). However, they may also feature emotional hyperreactivity, or emotional overreactions to specific events and interpersonal interactions. Panic Disorder or Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)) often features significant emotional dysregulation. These anxiety disorders can feature emotional hyperreactivity derived from anxiety or stress reactions. Persons with alcoholism or chemical dependency may also struggle with emotion dysregulation.

Traumatic brain injury, including frontal lobe disorders, are characterized by the dysregulation of emotions, as well as attention deficit issues, impulsivity, poor insight, lack of inhibition, impaired judgment, and depressive symptoms. These frontal-subcortical disorders can result not only from combat trauma, but also from infection, cancer, stroke, previous drug or alcohol use or neurodegenerative diseases. Explosive anger, often directed at family members, is a common occurrence, particularly in individuals in whom impulsivity, disinhibition, and emotional dysregulation are present."

 

[Triedntrue]

Wow a lot of information to digest . i saw many aspects of my son in there but he has had so many diagnoses over the years it is hard to distinguish what diagnoses go with what symptoms or are they drug related. What it ends up with is that no matter what the diagnosis he needs to get help and he goes back and forth on whether he will do that. That leaves me in the same place which is i have to detatch and take care of myself. He is still throwing guilt trips at me about when he gets out of jail he will have nothing. He needs 500 dollars for a job opportunity which is from somebody he ran into in jail. He knew him before supposedly. I am trying to stand firm.

 

[RN0441]

Seriously if my son were 36 and pulling that SHI* I'd say no way.

 

[ksm]

Since you are going to be liable for the car payments, can you get the car, and hold it til she finishes repaying you? I don't know what it is worth, but losing the car and still paying for it is not the best option, either. Maybe you can sell it to recoup what you have to pay.

Are you also on all the other lists for her business and the home? Gave you spoke to an attorney?

Sorry you are going thru this.