My son is spiraling down

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I just read Insane's post which I agree with one hundred percent. Many of us have had near lifelong psychiatric symptoms. With treatment we live normally or close to it.

One of the problems with our difficult children, is that they limit themselves by their ideas about themselves and their lives and life itself. To believe that incurable and untreatable are synonymous is one of those falsehoods, that our kids, in their arrogance and immaturity cling to.

That is why I think eventually letting them deal with their own lives is so essential. It is the only way that they can rethink their self-limiting beliefs and change them. At least there is that possibility.

Take care.

COPA
 

Quicksand

Active Member
I agree! I pull my hair... :/ I've been doing it off and on since I was 12 years old. This was ignored, punished or made fun of by my family. They had no idea what to do with me. When I was 22, I found the word "trichotillomania" in a psychology book- this sent me to a schrink and started me on my path to self acceptance- it wasn't easy but it has happened. My kids know, I've been open with them about it. There was a time though that I thought that I was insane (what sane person would do that?) and that I was doomed to forever feeling different and that it defined me. I've talked extensively with my son about this, and explained that we CAN overcome the negative feelings that come with issues like these, with professional help, self help and hard work on our part to understand that even though we have "issues" we can still find self acceptance, coping mechanisms and live a worthwhile life. I know it's not about me, but I want him to know that looking back, I see how much better it could have been if I would have known that my life still had a bright future even though I have this problem. I am fully confident that if he commits to the journey of learning self acceptance and coping skills he will be ok. I didn't have that spoken confidence from anyone and I went down some dark roads in my youth and loneliness - so, I'm hoping our empathy, acceptance and support will help him understand that there is a path to living a good life.
He is hell-bent on this self diagnosis, but I have reiterated that he needs an official diagnosis from a professional and to just work right now on getting the substance abuse under control. It's a process...
 

Quicksand

Active Member
It's midnight here and just going to bed. My son went into detox Tuesday at 7pm. He has called and said how they were trying to give him seroquil, Ativan and suboxone. He doesn't want any medications. He said everyone is a drug addict and has no intention of getting clean and that he hates it there. He said they estimated his stay would be 4 days. I went to visit tonight to have dinner with him and then family only meetings after. Everything was fine... For a minute. He got extremely angry and said he wants to leave because everyone was high on suboxone and he didn't belong there, he just wants to do 12 steps and go to dialectical behavior therapy. He said he told the psychiatrist some deep, personal things and the guy just offered depakote. He sad he was leaving.I asked if he could just hold on until tomorrow and dad and I would both be up there to see him and that we could get a family therapy meeting for all of us tomorrow. He shouted at me that I'm psycho and don't listen and then he took the books that I had brought for him and threw them down the hall and stormed off. I talked to a nurse guy who said he would check on him and I went to the meetings. When the first meeting let out, I talked to the nurse again and he said he was fine. I went to my next parent meeting which was so helpful that I left feeling better because his behavior, I learned was normal for coming off of drugs. He hasn't used in probably 5 days, based on what he's said.
When I got in the car, looked at phone and lots of calls from him and a voicemail that said he was leaving. He had also called my husband and told him he was going to leave. We tried to tell him to just hold on it was almost over but he wouldn't listen. He checked himself out.
He called me and wanted me to pick him up, I said no. You haven't given us a chance to talk or think about it at all. So, he took a cab here and by the time he got here we had already paid for a room at a local motel. He was really angry - WHY CANT I STAY WHERE I BELONG- WITH MY PARENTS??!!!!! This stuff is so hard.. Trying not to trigger him and trying not to get baited into circular arguments or be manipulated. We just stayed calm and said: - you decided that you aren't staying at rehab and this was so sudden that we aren't prepared to have you here right now. He claims he's going to a meeting in the morning. I'm just praying he stays in the room tonight and actually goes tomorrow. I gave him the dbt therapists number and he said he'd call for an appointment tomorrow. He claims the detox was "triggering" because people were "shooting up in the bathroom" - that sounds like bs to me!
Man oh man this is difficult stuff.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
So sorry QS, sounds like they were trying to calm his agitation down. I do not know about detox and such, my two are no where near that.
I hope things are better for you in the morning.
Try to get some rest. Please take care.
(((Hugs)))
leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
QS, I think you did the right thing. I would take with a grain of salt anything your son says a this point.

He is making others responsible for his own choices. In facilities such as this it is the psychiatrist's job to offer medication. If others are drug addicts, what is he? He is there to detox. It is not Club medication.

It sounds like he is trying to write his own treatment plan. It calls into question his motivation, at least for now.

I think you and your husband were strong, in refusing to allow him to stay at the house. I would think through whether or not you want to continue paying for a motel or subsidizing him, at this point.

I hope he did not jeopardize his participation. But of course, the consequences are his.

Try to pull back. This is about him. Not you. You have done everything right. Hold onto that. But you cannot do it for him.

Stay strong. Keep posting.

COPA
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Almost everyone I know that went to the rehab my daughter was in was given seroquil in detox. Many were given suboxone because if they did not their detox would have been very very difficult. In fact I just found a bottle of seroquil in our medicine cabinet from back then that I am turning into the drug drop off box. I have read a lot of info on detox and addiction treatment and they are now leaning towards medication being used more in the early stages of rehab, with better results. I doubt whether people were shooting up in the bathroom, that would be a very serious issue. Remember they told us not to believe most of what our daughter told us in early rehab.

I'm sorry he made that choice. My daughter did try to leave detox, she ran. Fortunately they were able to stop her and bring her back and we went up there to talk things out the next day.

This stuff is so so hard.
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
QS, it is so awful when there is a crisis like this, and a lot of drama. I have been through several of these situations with my own son. The last was last summer when he was stabbed by his girlfriend, had surgery and then left the hospital AMA with some person to come to my house because all he could think about was getting the girlfriend out of jail...he pounded on my front door and cried and yelled through the side window. I would not open the door, and finally I said through the glass if you don't leave here I will call the police. I was shaking and crying. He went back to the hospital and ended up staying the rest of the night.

What in the world? This stuff is absolutely awful to live through. What are we to do with people...people we love...who absolutely will not take the help (imperfect as it is) that is available to them, and then it instantly becomes our problem and they are completely out of control and living incoherent lives that never get stable? It's always something and they absolutely will not and cannot accept help and be compliant with that help. They always know better. But they don't. It is a complete conundrum and I don't believe there is an answer.

In this country it is nearly impossible to "commit" someone to treatment, that is, to grab them off the street and force them to go somewhere and stay there under lock and key until they get better. I have laid awake at night wishing and praying for a humane, gentle, kind way for this to be the case, that there is a way to contain people until they get enough detox and treatment for them to start seeing a different way.

Maybe if there was a way to do this...and I know it's a very slippery slope...there wouldn't be this level of dysfunction with people who are addicted and mentally ill.

Just reading your post, I connected with the fear and the pain you must have felt, and I am just so sorry.

There is no answer to this, and I finally came to the point in my own life that I had to stop reacting to everything he did, and I had to set limits on what I would tolerate. Regardless.

And then we have to live with ourselves and our feelings, like you are today. I am here to support what you did with him. At some point, we can't be the escape hatch one more time. It doesn't work and it never has worked.

If there is to be a change, we have to change what we do. That is what you have done, and i am praying that sooner rather than later there is a better change for him.

Hang in there. We're here for you.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Just reading your post, I connected with the fear and the pain you must have felt, and I am just so sorry.

I did also. I relived the pain of those dark days as if it was yesterday. We are with you QS

In this country it is nearly impossible to "commit" someone to treatment, that is, to grab them off the street and force them to go somewhere and stay there under lock and key until they get better. I have laid awake at night wishing and praying for a humane, gentle, kind way for this to be the case, that there is a way to contain people until they get enough detox and treatment for them to start seeing a different way.

Amen!
 

Quicksand

Active Member
In this darkness and pain and fear, a beautiful thing has occurred - my faith in humanity is strengthened. I've met and connected with so many kind and caring people! You guys-AMEN! My parent coach, my friends, the people at meetings and random strangers! The lady at Walmart optical who asked - where does your son go to school (when I was picking up his glasses)- he doesn't go to school... She just knew something was wrong and she told me about her adult sons trials and told me to hang in there, that I'm not alone. The front desk lady at the motel where we put him- she called me last night to say he checked in and that he was safe... Just because she "could hear it in my voice" that something was going on and she wanted to ease my worry a bit. You guys mean a lot to me. Forever grateful.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to let you know that I too found so many people willing to listen and share their stories along my journey. It indeed saved my life. I am forever grateful to all those who shared a bit of themselves in my hour of need.

Bless the woman at the front desk. Take care QS.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
What in the world? This stuff is absolutely awful to live through. What are we to do with people...people we love...who absolutely will not take the help (imperfect as it is) that is available to them, and then it instantly becomes our problem and they are completely out of control and living incoherent lives that never get stable? It's always something and they absolutely will not and cannot accept help and be compliant with that help. They always know better. But they don't. It is a complete conundrum and I don't believe there is an answer.

There is not an answer.
They have to find it in themselves.
The hard part is, the drugs have such control, it is such a monkey, no darn it all to heck a :censored2: gorilla on their back.

Substances so powerful, that they would do things that in their right mind, they would never imagine doing.
Their right mind, must show up every once in a while, and chastise them, like Jiminy cricket.
I think this is what may happen when they talk of rehab,
maybe it is their Jiminy Cricket self talking,
not a lie,
a real attempt to break free of the monster.
Then, as they go through the horrors of withdrawal,
the Jiminy Cricket voice gets dimmer and dimmer.

I am thinking that the replacement drugs given in detox, must be to abate the withdrawal. It is said to be a horrible thing.
There is so much evidence out the about the power of pain in our bodies, and the power of healing. And new theories of dulling the pain, then our bodies heal more quickly.

Perhaps your son wants to try to quit cold turkey, as a penance or something, who knows?

Why do our adult d cs insist it is our responsibility to "help" them?


Because we are their people.

Unfortunately, addiction is not like an illness that we could run to our children and help them with.

Certainly, if our adult children had some other unforeseen illness strike them, we would do whatever we could humanly, possibly do, to help them?

But, this, this thing, addiction, goes against all of our wildest imaginations.

It is too, too big for us to handle!

We are their people, but we cannot run to them and fix this, just as we cannot perform surgery.
They need professional help.

They have got to want to fix this.

What if we told them, we love them so deeply, we know they are going through horrible things and the place they are in now, puts us through horrible things.
Our children, with this addiction, in full force, using drugs, using us, to use drugs, we cannot handle.

We love them enough to know, that they have great potential and can become what they are truly meant to be.

They are our people.

We do not have enough tools in the world to fix them.

We can tell them we love them and we are painfully aware of their struggle with this.

So, aware, we know it is impossible for them to be with us, using.

We can tell them in prayer, in thought and deed, that we love them and we love our intimate familial relationship with them, and we love them enough to want to preserve that love.
To cherish it.
To keep it with us always.

That does not mean that we will cave to their wishes, and wants with their addiction.

We love them.

This does not mean they have to be near us, they cannot be so near us.
It is not healthy for them or us.

As they go down this path they are on, we are painfully aware of it and all of its dangers, to them, us, and our relationship with them.

They have gone to a place so beyond themselves and us.

Drifting,
a ship with sails, un-masted sails, fluttering in the strong winds, drifting.

We are waiting patiently on the shore for them to return to themselves.
We are preserving our relationship, by doing this.

While we wait, we have to take care of ourselves.

We owe this to ourselves, and them, to be our best selves.

We cannot join them on their drifting, sail fluttering, hapless, journey.

We will await their finding their meaning,

upon our shores.

Strong and steady,
and sure of our purpose.

We pray,
we wait,
we hope,

we live.

leafy
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Suboxone helps keep the cravings for heroin away. It's the cravings that are so dangerous and keeps the addict coming back for more heroin. Without something to lessen the cravings it is very very hard to stay clean. I am wondering what his reason is for not wanting to use it.
 

Quicksand

Active Member
I think he looks at suboxone as another drug that he abused and that triggers him to do more drugs..? Everything he's ever done or been interested in, he goes full speed into. He spent yesterday driving around, looking for meetings. He went to 2 meetings but most of the day was spent looking for the meetings. The NA website list of meetings has a lot of inaccuracies , arriving at a place to find no meetings there anymore, holiday stuff going on at churches so cancelled meetings etc.
he got in touch with the dbt therapist and has an appointment on Tuesday.
I'm concerned about how to handle him coming to our home after the motel and what rules to have in place for him to stay here. We are willing to try, but I don't want to be manipulated, used, or lied to.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
We found a lot of inaccuracies in the AA meeting list also. After a while our daughter got to know which ones were good and was referred to others by members. Young people have their favorites. The open ones that allow family members to go were so interesting to me. We changed our attitudes quite a bit after attending those meetings. Good people, nice families, all struggling with the same thing. We always felt very accepted and welcomed.

The best thing for him is to find others in NA meetings that he feels a connection with. They need to feel accepted and part of a group. They support each other, they keep each other clean and sober. Bill W and Dr. Bob knew what they were doing.
 

Quicksand

Active Member
He's at an AA meeting right now! There was an NA and families anon meeting at the same time & place earlier today, so, we drove together. FA is incredible, I'll be going back. So many good folks out there. Copa said somewhere along the line- how all of this stuff we go through is helping her to find her authentic self (along those lines )- how right she is.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
I am thrilled you found FA to be helpful. I loved FA. I'm not sure if it was you I told but I learned to laugh again in FA. Those families were incredible. I never felt so comfortable in my life with a group of people. I hope he is making some good connections in AA and NA. The support he will get there is life changing.
 

Quicksand

Active Member
It's been a week, and he's struggling today. He's bored,lonely and angry. He has no sober friends and he's living in our home in the same neighborhood he grew up in. He likes his therapist but that's only twice per week. He's been going to 12 step meetings every day, but today he said he's "different" than all of the people at the meetings and can't find anyone he wants to get to know. His sponsor is in his 40's, and he went to dinner with him, but not someone to hang out with regularly as he had a wife and kids. I suggested a class (any kind- endless possibilities), a part-time job or volunteer. That just made him angrier. He said he wanted to run.. I said - just try to hang on and yes, it's difficult but try to stay strong and maybe learning something in this recovery time would help. He said he was going for a drive and left. He wasn't gone ten minutes and he sent me a text saying- I'm coming back, leaving doesn't solve anything. I told him I was proud of him and we are here to help and support his healing and recovery. I'm just trying to stay cool and positive...
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Quicksand, I know how hard this is.

Your son seems to be making a series of good choices. He is doing it. Not you for him.

There has to come, I think, a sense of trusting, that he will continue to do so. Or if he falls, temporarily, he will pick himself up.

Because it seems now that you are living on pins and needles. Terrified, that he is in the balance. And you with him.

The thing is, just as he is deciding well now, even if he misses a beat, there are a million choice points and he can get back on track. It seems as if he is understanding things differently now.

As far as friends, activities, meaning, all of us have to build that. 12 step groups are for recovery. Not for socializing.

Of course he feels a vacuum in his life. He has been otherwise occupied, has he not? Of course he cannot reasonably expect that friends and all of the good things he wants and needs will immediately appear. That is real life for all of us.

I guess I am wanting to suggest if you don't think that a little bit of distance between you might help you. So you are not so vulnerable to his feelings and actions.

I needed that with my own son. So that I could get to the point that I really understood and accepted that his life was his. And my own, my own.

Perhaps I have gone too far in the other direction. Because it is still quite painful for me to interact with my son.

I feel you are both doing well. But I want you to be able to get your life back. Only then, when there is a bit of a disconnect will your son really understand that everything he has in his life he will build and maintain. Including peace of mind, interests and hope.

COPA
 
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Quicksand

Active Member
I agree... He is living here, so he he and dad and I cross paths often but we are trying to give him his space. My daughter will be home from school next week- that's going to change the dynamic(hopefully in a good way)... :/
I have stuff to keep me busy and in and out of the house and dad works a lot. My vow is to not freak out about anything and to be supportive of healthy choices and behaviors and not hover over him.
 
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