New member seeks help....

[Jabberwockey]

Talking to the police as a runaway and as someone threatening suicide are two completely different creatures.

he actually seems to be hurting deep inside. At least that has been the overwhelming sense i get from him. he used to say things like that and i think that he is still hurting/miserable. He is grasping at these philosophies as a self-medication.

There is a chance that he is hurting, depressed, and trying to figure out what to do. There is also a chance that he is simply manipulating you into feeling sorry for him. Someone has to pay for him to live in this utopia he has dreamed up and since he's made it clear that it wont be him, the most logical choice would be the parental units.

 

[TerryJ2]

Sheesh, he's got a lot of similarities to my son! I wish I could say we've come through all this, but we're smack in the middle of it.
And my son doesn't like philosophy. He's bad at math, too.
Wow, a one-way ticket to Japan? Does he speak Japanese?
I don't blame him for having trouble with U.S. schools after going to military base schools. So many kids do well in those schools and really, really learn. And then they're plunked down into our system and struggle. So glad you were on top of it and changed schools. But as you noticed, there is something else going on.

After reading these notes again, I have to kind of chuckle at the irony of wanting to live on the streets, and wanting to have intellectual discussions. Philosophy is the antithesis of living on the street. As the others have said, it's about drug abuse, mental illness, danger and hunger. NOT utopia!
If he asked a homeless guy about Kierkegaard, the answer would be, "What does he sell? Is he in lockup?"
Why do these kids thinks that living on the street is utopia? Just because parents aren't there?

Has he stolen food from a store yet? They all have cameras.
I feel for you.

 

[InsaneCdn]

We're unusual I think, as we seem to be the only couple on the board.

There has been at least one other couple - but their kids are older now, and we don't see them often: Marg, and Marg's Man.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Desperately Afraid,

They will find solutions themselves...by experiencing the real life consequences of their actions. They will themselves see if their philosophies bear fruit or not.

Part of what 'happened' was we moved back to the US. He had never really lived in the US. He went to small private international schools.

We also lived in foreign countries. My son speaks multiple languages fluently beyond English.

The first time he bought a one-way ticket to Japan. (!!)

When he turned 18 he saved his Christmas job money to fly He flew to Rio to see a girl when he was 18 and ended up without money on the beach.

At the same time, he started to think his work was never good enough. An assignment for a 4-page short story became a maybe-publishable 12-page story.

This is not all bad. This is how academics and creative writers begin.

But frankly, we have been trying to get him to at least finish high school.

I enrolled my son in a private independent learning high school that counted all of his foreign experience, foreign languages, etc. as credits, and he thereby graduated.

he talks about revolution and anarchy, but refuses to examine the various historical instances of how such movements have succeeded or failed.

While I do not know your son, and cannot comment with authority, I might view these interests as vehicles to which to vicariously identify to separate and to emancipate.

I think these young people are so brilliant and their experiences have been so atypical they may have a hard time identifying with peers and their teachers may seem ho hum.

My son eventually was diagnosed with mental illness, hospitalized several times, applied for SSI for mental illness, and was qualified for such. I do not know what to think about this but I do not get a vote. My son's preoccupation with conspiracy theories scares me but I have learned to keep quiet. He is now waiting for the world to end (this month) and he realizes that it may not, and therefore needs a fall back plan. That is progress.

The best thing I did with my son was to allow him to explore and to experience the consequences of his choices. He realized he did not like being homeless. He did not like living near the street. He did not like being aimless and without meaningful and productive work. He was lucky to have found a community of immigrants from a country where we lived with whom he identifies. He is living with a family.

My son is now working doing landscape construction working for his friend and is thinking about returning to college.

He is still socially withdrawn. I am heartened because he is bored when he is alone in the house, and his friends are out and about.

You will learn many things on this site. It has worked for many of us to withdraw from micro-managing their lives and looking for solutions for them. That they will sabotage.

I am glad you found this board. Especially while your son is still young. You will be spared, I hope, a lot of the unnecessary pain.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I'm not a professional, and even if I was, I haven't actually "seen" your son. But... given that it seems he spent quite a few years NOT living in the US, and then returned for his last two years of high school? I'm guessing he has subtle challenges, the kinds of things that teenagers in North America jump on instantly, and it turns kids into pariahs. Minor differences in socialization - even it it's just because he's more "international" than most kids - usually means you're an outcast. And for a teenager, being an outcast is just about the end of the world.

I've seen first hand what teenagers do to kids who are just a bit "different"... two generations of it, and it hasn't changed.

 

[Tanya M]

Welcome DA. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I'm glad you found us.

Your son sound so much like my son, high intelligence paired with lack of common sense, the grandiose idea that all of us who work and live "responsible" lives are just stupid and blind to how the world really should be. Oh yes, I have heard this from my son many times.

Once they get it in their heads to think this way there is nothing we can do to persuade them otherwise. I found with my son the more I tried to "talk some sense into him" the tighter he held on to his beliefs.
I now know better than to engage into a debate with him. There is no winning as he constantly shifts gears and with his why's and how's and quoting from books he's read and talking circles he leaves my head spinning.

All you can do is continue your efforts to try and get him to go to therapy. He may be biding his time until he's 18 or as you said he may be trying to goad you into kicking him out.

I would also suggest that you start to prepare yourself that he will follow through with his desire to live off the grid. It was hard for me to accept this of my own son but ultimately it's what I had to do.

Keep posting, we are here for you and we care.

 

[DesparatelyAfraid]

Tanya M, INsaneCdn, Copacabana, TerryJ2, et al,
Knowing you are all out there and seem to be getting through it gives me some hope, at least for myself and my husband. School starts today. He says he'll go. When he wouldn't go to his therapist yesterday, I went instead. Therapist is in favor of doing what we can to keep him school even if he is failing. ...that even if he is pushing back on us very hard, some of what we are saying may be getting in.

We have also found that there is no point in debating with him. He told me he loves me yesterday. I think he meant it.

It's very hard to concentrate on my work. Just started a new assignment, working from home. While there are good things about that, it means I have much to learn but fewer 'brush fires' to deal with. It's the constant brush fires that can distract me from the fear I feel for my son. My husband also just started a new assignment, more high-profile and even more demanding, making it harder for him to take time to deal with our son.

I feel momentary resignation but know there is so much disappointment and fear still ahead. Thank you for your support.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I feel momentary resignation but know there is so much disappointment and fear still ahead. Thank you for your support.

As parents, this is inevitable. The best thing to do is to remember that your son is almost a grown man. By law he will be come January. Remember that its his life to live, not yours. He WILL make mistakes, its part of life. I remember my dad telling me one day that he wished that I would learn more from his mistakes. I told him that I have, but the only way to truly understand is to make the mistakes myself. Bear in mind with this that I was pretty much the anti-Difficult Child but it doesn't change the fact that most of us have to learn from our own mistakes.

Right now you need to prepare for the distinct possibility that your son will simply walk away when he turns 18. The best way to do that is to start practicing detachment. Please read the article on detachment near the beginning of this forum. It has wonderful and effective advice for you. It wont be easy but remember, nothing worth having ever is.

 

[DesparatelyAfraid]

Jabberwocky, thanks for sticking with me. I did read the detachment article. thanks.

my son got up and went to school today. so i suppose it's a good day!

 

[Tanya M]

Therapist is in favor of doing what we can to keep him school even if he is failing. ...that even if he is pushing back on us very hard, some of what we are saying may be getting in.

I truly believe all we have taught our children is with them, however, it's up to them what they will do with that information.

I feel momentary resignation but know there is so much disappointment and fear still ahead.

I wish I could disagree with you here. Yes, there will be more to come. It is not an easy journey any of us are on but I can tell you that living your own life is vital.
Our Difficult Child consume so much of our time and emotions leaving us drained and that is why it is so important to not lose ourselves in the midst of the chaos. I did lose myself and it was very hard to crawl back up.
Make sure you take time just for yourself and also time just for you and your husband.
A quiet walk in the park even if only for 20 minutes can be so rejuvenating. If walking in the park is not your thing, find something that is. Be good to yourself.
My husband and I started taking drives on the weekends, just the two of us. We had one rule, do not discuss Difficult Child. We would just take off in the car sometimes with a plan, sometimes not.

I'm glad you are here with us.

 

[jude-in-nj]

I do not have much advice, can only add that my son like yours, has very similar views on the world.
My son has paranoid tendencies, believes in the 9/11 conspiracy, is anti-government and believes basically all the cops are out to get him.
He hates corporate America, would love to move out of this state because he thinks the grass will be greener elsewhere. I have actually encouraged that in the past but now he is stuck in jail so that is not happening anytime soon!
Hugs to you!

 

[jude-in-nj]

Your son sound so much like my son, high intelligence paired with lack of common sense, the grandiose idea that all of us who work and live "responsible" lives are just stupid and blind to how the world really should be. Oh yes, I have heard this from my son many times.

Once they get it in their heads to think this way there is nothing we can do to persuade them otherwise. I found with my son the more I tried to "talk some sense into him" the tighter he held on to his beliefs.
I now know better than to engage into a debate with him. There is no winning as he constantly shifts gears and with his why's and how's and quoting from books he's read and talking circles he leaves my head spinning.

Wow, it is as if you are talking about my son! Always reading, always trying to "educate" his dad and I about the world and government etc etc.. it is exhausting!

 

[DesparatelyAfraid]

jude-in-nj, we realize we cannot 'win' a debate with our son, so we try not to engage in them. i have told him that he is free to have whatever political or philosophical beliefs he wants; that we are not insisting he change them. But he refuses to believe us and insists we are trying to change him. we have tried to make him understand that it is in his interests--regardless of his political/philosophical beliefs or future plans--to finish high school. School (his senior year) started this week, Tuesday. He has gone every day. He seemed really wiped out the first day, much happier (!) the second day, really down yesterday ("the novelty wore off sooner than expected"), but still went to school today. His oldest brother has invited him to spend the weekend with in Boston. As first, son seemed quite willing (not excited, nothing is exciting...) to do so. Ad of last night, he 'guessed' he would do it. We bought the ticket. I will drive him to the airport. Brother will meet him at airport. fingers crossed he doesn't take the opportunity to run. we keep telling ourselves that he could run away at any moment, that he drives the car off to school each day, so how is this any different?
It will give us a chance to have a weekend without the constant vigilance and altering of plans based on his mood.

I feel very alone in this. While my husband is in it, too, he is much more able to detach. He is convinced that if our son runs away, he'll be back in 3 days. but that assumes there is no underlying issue that is causing it all. Son is not a petulant 13 year old who is mad because we said he couldn't do something. He has adopted a world view that cannot be lived in the current social/political/economic world.

 

[Tanya M]

I feel very alone in this.

I do understand that feeling of being alone but know that we are here to support you. I know how hard it can be when you don't feel aligned with your husband when it comes to dealing with Difficult Child.
For me, I was the one who was more willing to detach while my husband was more willing to give the proverbial second chance, which with our son was 2nd through 100th chances.

He has adopted a world view that cannot be lived in the current social/political/economic world.

My son also believes that he is never wrong, that he holds all the answers to how the world should really operate. While he will align himself with like minded people he prefers to be a loner.
It was a hard reality for me to swallow that this is how my one and only child chooses to live his life, but it's his life and I have no control over it.
Accepting the reality that this is how it will be was hard but necessary for my own sanity and peace.

It will give us a chance to have a weekend without the constant vigilance and altering of plans based on his mood.

I hope you will do something wonderful this weekend. I know it's easier said than done but try not to worry about him.

 

[DesparatelyAfraid]

Thx. It is nice to know you all are out there, but difficult to not spend too much time on this board! i have to imagine it is not healthy to dwell on it unduly, difficult though that may be.

 

[lovemyson1]

Is there any way you can interest him in a hobby? Sport? Musical instrument? Just think with his intelligence it would be good for him so he doesn't just immerse himself in reading these theology books. Sometimes people can get too much into their heads. Maybe he would meet friends if he had a hobby? Try to dig and see what would peak his interest. Sounds like he could be an amazing adult one day. Best of luck to you.

 

[Tanya M]

i have to imagine it is not healthy to dwell on it unduly, difficult though that may be.

Yes, there has to be a balance. It is key to work on our own happiness and doing things that bring joy into our lives.

This forum is but a small part of my life but it is something that is very important to me.

While I will never escape the reality of my sons life choices, he is my son and I love him. I am farther down this road as I have dealt with this for a good twenty plus years and I am truly at peace with it. That peace affords me the ability to be there for others and to share what I can. It is a true blessing to me to share on this forum, to take something from my life that caused so much pain, fear and heartache and to now turn it into something positive.

 

[DesparatelyAfraid]

Lovemyson1 and Tanya,

Thanks for your engagement. My Difficult Child has had things that interested him. He learned to fence. He was an excellent horseback rider (jumping). He rode for 7 yrs when we were living overseas. Simply can't afford it in the U.S. He fenced for 4 yrs, then 3 yrs off when we moved to a different country, then for about a year since we have been back in the US. He stopped fencing about 7 months ago when he was involved in an extra curricular drama activity at school that got more and more time consuming as the play debut date got closer. Interestingly, his first attempt to run away was 2 days before opening night. I initially thought maybe the stress of opening night was part of the runaway attempt. But, I don't think so. He had three parts in the play, two quite significant. He had learned the parts cold. He did a remarkable job every one of the 5 performances.

What was next? I have to look,

 

[InsaneCdn]

rode for 7 yrs when we were living overseas. Simply can't afford it in the U.S.

Ummm... it isn't my call to tell you what you can or cannot afford, but... to have had horses for 7 years and then not be able to have them? That alone would be enough to send either of my kids off the deep end really fast. Horses have an impact like nothing else on the face of the earth. Dogs are different - really good, but not the same as horses (as in, horses aren't a substitute for dogs either... many kids need both). Maybe you can't solve it - and maybe it is too late - but if there is any way to get horses back in his life, it might make a difference.

The changes to his life since you returned to the US has been extreme - on so many levels. Its no wonder he is floundering a bit.

 

[A dad]

USA is one of the most expensive countries on the planet. When I visited my cousin in Florida for 3 month and I worked there in those 3 months and worked in construction we still barely got enough to pay the rent and some food. This was a job where you worked from 7 am to 7 pm every day. At least in my country poor as it may be where I have to work a year to win as much as I won there in 3 months I could afford way more then rent and food with those money.
The OP maybe could not afford its not a cheap country to live in actually its very expensive in my opinion. Maybe where the OP lived before it was way cheaper to live in.
About the drug things the best way to find out is to use logic does he ever get out of the house besides school and in the weekends?
I knew my difficult child did not took drugs was because he never ever left the house to do anything he wanted. You can not take drugs if you never leave the house to buy drugs.
When I say he was a difficult child the problem was that he was easy to deal with he had no ambition no dreams he cared for nothing and still does not he never calls for example we have to call him if we wanna talk with him. Now I am glad that he works and provides for himself but as the OP's son he does not get excited for anything he does not care for anything and he is 24 and I suspect that will never change.
Or maybe he will get a girlfriend and he will change. We can now hope