Order in the Court

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
But... I don't understand how some of these lawyers can take the approaches they do and live with themselves, unless they are somewhat prone to violence themselves.
I don't know if he went there because his client insisted? (He was writing notes and passing it to him....) He was insinuating with his questioning that my daughter influenced this man to do meth......but this guy looks like he has been on it for a long while. (I was squirming in my seat....because his questioning was along the line that my daughter asked for the beatings........ugh) Then the lawyer used this guys own excuse for beating her......
"Is it true that you wrote another mans name on your body and all over the bathroom floors and walls?"
Rain, looking disgusted, "No"
DF-"Are you suuuure about that?"
Rain, "Yes, I am sure, why would I do that?"
DF-"Were you seeing another man?"
Rain- "No"

I thought that just proved how psychotic this guy is, and that the lawyer is just an idiot.
I am sorry, that is not nice......but his questioning was idiotic. I do not know if this is standard in DV cases, to try to prove that the victim asked for the beating by her actions..........disgusting.

leafy
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Leafy it is common practice to try to blame the victim for the beating/rape. My third child's father beat me to a bloody pulp. His defense was that I should have known that trying to leave him when I found out that he was up to no good, would result in a beating so I should have stayed. His attorney had the gall to stand in front of the jury and deliver that garbage.
 

GoingNorth

Crazy Cat Lady
Even in Germany, which at that time was more liberal about a lot of things than the States, I was asked by the Polizei why I was out walking alone except for my dog (and wasn't I lucky that she was a Schutzhund)at night.

I didn't get hassled about my clothing as I was wearing jeans, a flannel shirt, and a denim jacket. Nothing that would "inflame a man's lusts."

From what I understand from my reading, Germany is currently more conservative than she was when I lived there, and women are getting more hassle over sexual assault/rape cases.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Leafy, I am just now getting caught up with your thread and just wanted to add along with the others that I am so glad Rain had the courage to do what she did, and sad and angry beyond words that she had to answer to such ridiculous questions and insinuations. I am relieved to hear that your husband's labs are improving. Your story about riding the waves together was just beautiful. Just beautiful. Best to you, dear Leafy.
 
New leaf, just want to say keeping you in my prayers. Your endurance is amazing to me. You seem to keep your head on straight no matter what situation and as I read you have plenty. You are an inspiration to me. You make me feel we can all one day make it through these dark tunnels we are being pulled through and might actually see sunshine on the other side.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
His attorney had the gall to stand in front of the jury and deliver that garbage.
OMG, PASA! I am so sorry that this happened to you and then the blaming.....this is why victims do not want to testify...
Germany is currently more conservative than she was when I lived there, and women are getting more hassle over sexual assault/rape cases.
This is outrageous and sad. Countries and court systems should be improving, not going backwards.
sad and angry beyond words that she had to answer to such ridiculous questions and insinuations. I am relieved to hear that your husband's labs are improving.
It was ridiculous. However, the truth is, there is a series of terrible choices that my daughter has made, one thing has led to another, to being in the company of a man like this. I am her mother and I love her. But, meth has got a grip on her. I hope one day she sees her value and walks a different path.

Hubs is feeling a bit better today. This alone is positive. Blood results came back staph aureus and the Docs are hoping it is not MRSA. It will take a few more days to see. I am cautiously optimistic. Day by day.........and a lot of prayer. Thank you dear Albie.
You make me feel we can all one day make it through these dark tunnels we are being pulled through and might actually see sunshine on the other side.
DM, thank you so much for your very kind words. We can make it through this, and there is sunshine. Some days will be better than others. We all need to feel what we feel, we are only human. We are going through some very hard times, unimaginable things happening to people we love with all of our hearts, in turn, deeply effecting us.
This site has provided me with much comfort through it all.
I still ride a roller coaster of emotion, but am reminded that throughout time there has been hardship of excruciating proportion. People have come through seemingly insurmountable difficulties. There was a suggestion by Cedar that in our darkest times, we need to find mentors to help us. People like Viktor Frankl, Maya Angelou, Helen Keller, Anne Frank, etc.

We will get through the challenges before us.

As we continue on the journey, I am relieved knowing that I can reach out to the wonderful members here.
It has been a soft place to land, that is for sure.
I am grateful.
(((HUGS)))
leafy
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
He was extremely skinny and started having sores all over his face. At least in jail he doesn't appear to have access. He says he's hungry all the time now. I reminded him that when he was free all he wanted to do was not eat and not be around the family. I've taken care of young 30 year olds who have had major strokes, miraculously walk out of the hospital after three weeks, and then end up back there a month later with more strokes due to meth.
Oh Savior, I am sorry. It is a heartache to see our children in such a state. I am glad he does not have access in jail.
Meth defies all reason and rhyme.
SNM ( I didn't realize my screen name made these initials but I got a huge chuckle when someone posted it - hey I'll take it any way I can get it as I age :)
I didn't even put that together.......oh my......
:rofl:
leafy
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Blood results came back staph aureus and the Docs are hoping it is not MRSA.
Fingers crossed Leafy. A dear friend of mine recently went through a bout of MRSA following a revision of a knee replacement. It developed just as she was ending her six-week convalescence and about to return to work. Six more weeks with a PICC line and super-duper antibiotics before she could go back to work after that and she's still on oral antibiotics. Nasty stuff. But even that is treatable.

Having been a litigator, I'd like to offer an explanation in defense of the defense attorney. This was a preliminary hearing. In a prelim, all the prosecution does is prove that there is enough evidence to get to trial; basically, is there enough to charge with a felony. There is (nearly) always enough evidence to get to trial. In fact, if they are thinking of a plea bargain, most defense attorney's waive the prelim and just move on to the felony arraignment. Because they know they aren't going to win at preliminary hearing, many defense attorneys take the opportunity to do free discovery and just bang away at the prosecution witnesses looking for holes in their stories they can then dig into later in preparation for trial. In essence, they're looking for anything that can lead to reasonable doubt later.

They want to see if they can get a witness to recant or if there's something there they can use later to discredit them. In my mind, doing that to the victim is despicable. But then again, I was a very poor criminal defense attorney. :rolleyes:

If it helps at all, he's way less likely to treat her that way in front of a jury. You don't help your client's case by looking like a jerk.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
They want to see if they can get a witness to recant or if there's something there they can use later to discredit them. In my mind, doing that to the victim is despicable. But then again, I was a very poor criminal defense attorney.
It's good to know how it all works. I was waiting for the famous, "Objection your Honor, badgering the witness........" but maybe that's just T.V.

Hubs is slowly improving, his echocardiogram came back clear so it appears we are trudging up the old mountain......see what the docs say this afternoon. They are trying to find the source of infection.....the fact that he is feeling better each day is a good sign. Thank you for your good wishes....

(((HUGS)))
leafy
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
Thanks IC, sorry I am on my phone and my chubby fingers posted before I was done. Ahem.
So, there I was sitting there listening to Rains testimony, stomach churning, but trying to remain composed. The guy.......whom I have never seen before, kept turning around, his eyes met mine and I glared at him. Long and hard.
His attorney tried to poke holes in Rains testimony, but in my opinion he ended up supporting the case with his questioning. Rain broke down a few times, but held her ground.
The judge ruled in favor and set an arraignment and court date. $50,000 bail.
We sat with the advocate and prosecutor and they explained what happens next.
I called hubs who was feeling dizzy, so we said our goodbyes. I resisted temptation to say anything about rehab. Encouraged Rain to take care and follow through. She said she would call me.

Hubs must have the flu. It is going around. His temp is hovering at 101.

I heard some terrible things in that courtroom, most of which confirmed what I knew about the meth use, but it was the first time I have actually heard her say it.
Into a [email protected]€{*ng microphone.......it bounced around my skull. I winced inside, but held my composure.
The defense attorney was trying to use that to prove she may not be a viable witness.
It didn't work.
Meth.
Meth is a horrible, horrible drug. It is also why I cannot have my daughter living at home. I pray that she will be released from its clutches, but it is up to her. I no longer have a cloud of guilt hovering over my head. I feel sorrowful at the circumstances surrounding my daughter. No one deserves to be mistreated.
What this man did to her.....I want to scream.
I want to magically incinerate meths existence off the planet.
What my daughter on meth has done to herself.......it echoes in my head.

If you go on meth websites, violence and psychosis is a major part of the insidiousness of this drug.
I have tried to help my daughter, but she does not want to quit.
So, her choice is to live in the park, homeless and high.

I hope that one day that will not be her choice.

I love her with all of my heart.

My head hurts........probably from all of the screaming that was going on inside of it during this hearing.
Oh my God it was a hearing alright.

The things I heard.


Somebody please save my daughter......

What a strange life.....

What a strange day.
Wait there is more.......
To add to it, a lady walked by us as we sat on those benches and I recognized her. She looked at me.... I know her from paddling.

Rains advocate said...."that's my supervisor".
(This is where you insert weird music playing in the background, like a horror film)
She came and said hello and handed me her card.
We chatted briefly about paddling and then of course .....there was this kind of awkwardness and.....intuitive silent acknowledgement of this......


April Fools Day.

I will be having a cocktail to calm my nerves.

Stunned
leafy
I just wanted to say...this wrung my heart. I can so feel where you were. Please, somebody, save our kids...
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Leafy just read this from the beginning.

Your court hearing sounds frightful. I am glad you were there for your daughter and that you do still have a deep bond.

So sorry to hear about your hubby. It is wonderful that you have each other and your love for each other throughout this madness. I am sure he is your rock. I too am so thankful for my husband even thought sometimes I lose sight of that.

I love your surfing post. I have always had a great love and respect for the ocean. In my next life I will be a good swimmer and not afraid of sharks so will surf!

You have given me so much support and good advice here. Prayers and hugs for you and your family.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to say...this wrung my heart. I can so feel where you were. Please, somebody, save our kids...
Yes, Echo, it wrings the heart. At least I am at the point where I realize I cannot save them........that was the worst place to be.
I don't think I have reached radical acceptance yet, but I am working on it.
The sting of it is not so sharp as before.
Choices. It is all about their choices.
Hopefully one day they will choose differently.

Thank you Echolette,
(((HUGS)))
leafy
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
The best dollar I never spent on therapy was when my sister shared with me that her therapist said "you cannot save your father." It was like the sky opened and the sun shined through.

It took me the better part of 10 years to relearn that with my son.

And yes, finally knowing or feeling that you cannot save some one is not the same as radical acceptance...but it is a step along the way.

If it helps at all...I let go of my son a year or two ago, the same time that I slipped away from this forum...you were just starting to post then, I remember. I am so much more well now. My son is who he is. His bad choices have been limited in their range by the fact that he has been in jail. I enjoy our short phone calls. I may even have it in me to help him a bit when he is moved to court mandated rehab. I haven't exceeded my own limits with him in quite some time (and I was AWESOME at exceeding my own limits, as so many of us are.). And it is OK. I love him and appreciate some of the things about him that I always loved. I don't fret or perseverate or fear for him...at least not today, or yestarday, or for many months now. He is who he is with his own path and I am who I am. I was pouring all my water into the sewer...now I have it stored and saved for watering flowers, and everyone, including he, is better off.

Your kindness and your love for your daughter shine through, as does your resilience and commitment. but really...5 kids?????? I tell EVERYONE that four was maybe a little more than I expected..although of course there is not a one of them that I would give up.

I wish for you a similar path of your own.

Echo
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I am glad you were there for your daughter and that you do still have a deep bond.
RN, I am not so sure about the bond part......Rain is somewhat, how should I put this, distant and has been for a long time. She blames a lot of her life's woes on me. SIGH. I went to court to support her, I am not sure where she is at this point with that. I saw her a few times after she had been abused by this man, wanted her to go to a DV shelter, call police, she would have none of it. I do not know why. My thoughts are that it would restrict her meth use. It is sad. But, there is not much I can do. Hubs says she doesn't want change. So true. She has to want change. So, I will support her as much as I can, but not enable.

It is wonderful that you have each other and your love for each other throughout this madness.
Yes, it is. Hubs is not a talker, not a softy, he doesn't fool me, underneath it all he is. He is a rock and has worked so hard his whole life to provide for our family. Though he doesn't talk much about it, his daughters choices are really hurting him.
In my next life I will be a good swimmer and not afraid of sharks so will surf!
I am so thankful for my time spent in the ocean. Plan to get back to it when life settles down a bit......being at the beach is so freeing. I have seen a few sharks in my time, sent me to shore. There is nothing quite like sitting on a surfboard waiting for a wave, having that feeling of a presence, looking down to see a shadow larger than my ten foot board swimming beneath me......that is a "time to go in signal!!!!"
I have also seen beautiful fish, turtles, spinner dolphins and even whales.
It's not too late for you to get out there and experience surfing RN, or even canoe paddling.....
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Echolette, if only those cloud parting epiphanies would stay with us always.......
It took me the better part of 10 years to relearn that with my son.
Me too, maybe longer since it was two daughters....we kept giving chances and when it got crazy, out they went, only to come back for another chance months later full of empty promises. I was a slow learner.....
If it helps at all...I let go of my son a year or two ago, the same time that I slipped away from this forum...you were just starting to post then, I remember. I am so much more well now. My son is who he is.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share this, yes it does help to know that folks can let go and live well despite what d cs choices are.
I haven't exceeded my own limits with him in quite some time (and I was AWESOME at exceeding my own limits, as so many of us are.). And it is OK. I love him and appreciate some of the things about him that I always loved. I don't fret or perseverate or fear for him...at least not today, or yestarday, or for many months now. He is who he is with his own path and I am who I am.
You know what, in the beginning, I couldn't think about my two as they were growing up because I was in so deep. It was too hard to go back and reminisce, too painful. Now, today at least, I hope for better for them, but not in that "MY life depends on it" way......It doesn't . I am thankful for the good memories and photo filled albums. It is what it is. If this is the way they choose to live what can I do? Love them anyway......just not in my house. Or on my dime.
I was pouring all my water into the sewer...now I have it stored and saved for watering flowers, and everyone, including he, is better off.

Your kindness and your love for your daughter shine through, as does your resilience and commitment. but really...5 kids??????
Pouring water in the sewer, love the imagery.

5 kids, I know right.....last one at 42, I really wouldn't recommend it, although he is a love. I do so love all of them.
One of hubs great aunties had 22!!!!!!Can you imagine?

My daughter, first born. Quiet, strong, gentle. Loved her sisters, she was always this calm presence. Then middle school hit and things got a bit sketchy, not over the top. By the time she was 18, I hardly knew her, she was full of venom for me, and herself it seems. I miss her Echo.
I tell EVERYONE that four was maybe a little more than I expected..although of course there is not a one of them that I would give up.
Me too. Not a one.
I wish for you a similar path of your own.

Echo
Thank you so much Echo, I am striving for that. Every day is different from the next and the lows are not so long and hard as before.
It is what it is......
I truly appreciate you sharing your experience. There is a light off in the distance....for all of us.

(((Hugs)))
Leafy
 

savior no more

Active Member
When my kid is in court I always wish I could write a letter to the judge and explain that I have tried everything known to man to help him - like I'm the one on trial for my parenting and am defending myself. Luckily even though he is nineteen his attorneys - last 2 court appointed after one paid by me - always would talk to me and somehow I could relay information.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I always wish I could write a letter to the judge and explain that I have tried everything known to man to help him - like I'm the one on trial for my parenting and am defending myself.
I so relate to this SaviorNM (I cannot write SNM.......) Ahem....
The looks.......Do these people even understand the side of the story where things got so bad there was no alternative, no way of helping, that we were all going down the :poop: shoot with the choices and lifestyle?
I think they do. If they do not......whatever, I do not know them.
They do not know me.
I know how hard we tried and tried.
There was no stopping the train wreck. Ugh.
leafy
 
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