Other people who are shunned and how it makes me feel

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Essentially, this girl you are writing of, divorced her family. Sad.
It is sad.
I have had to do the same. I had no choice in the matter. Leafie, I am meeting a lot of new people because I refuse to let the accident ruin my life, even though I had to start over in many areas and had to meet new people. I don't tell the new people about my family. I don't want to talk about them or to raise curiosity. I tell everyone I don't have any siblings, which is essentially true. I just mention my father and say that everyone else is dead, which is also true.

I tell people my maiden name is my first husband's last name. I also use that as my mother's maiden name.

I have rejected their values because I don't share them or like them or believe in them.

I don't talk about being raised Jewish. It brings back bad memories of family wars...the Jewish holidays were WWII at my house,a nd we never had good family memories over the holidays. I don't really even consider myself Jewish. To me it is a religion and I don't celebrate that religion. It is a religion that made my parents crazy. I was so scared during the Jewish holidays. Some of their worst, most abusive fights, were on Yom Kippor. Isn't that sad? Not one year did a loving family get together for a Chanukah party. My mother made sure we never got to know my dad's large family, which probably would have been fun. Instead, all we ever saw were her parents and my hated Uncle Vain. I never met most of my relatives and at this late date I don't want to. But I'll bet I would have loved it as a kid.

My parents never went to temple together. They went to different temples. It was a holy mess. On top of that, the kids in my school were 99% Jewish while I was there and they picked on me badly. Seemed like the one or two non-Jewish kids in my class were the ones who liked me and who I felt the most bonded to. And my mother used to torture me over only dating Jewish boys. I listened for a few years, but then when I got accused of dating non-Jewish boys who WERE Jewish but didn't look it, I just rebelled and told her I refused to listen to that rule anymore. And I married a non-Jewish man. Two of them. I look back and don't wonder why Judiasm was not a good memory for me. Why I did not follow the Jewish traditions I had learned, such as screaming on Yom Kippor!

I don't even associate myself with Chicago much. I grew up around there, but I am far more comfortable in Wisconsin. It is more down-to-earth and prettier and less snobby (in my opinion and at least where I live).

I adopted most of my kids and consider them whatever it means to be "my flesh and blood." I could not love them more if I had given birth to them. I would take a bullet f or all of my kids and grandkids (without a thought). And they are not my DNA, but DNA scares me considering my DNA...I don't want to think about DNA.

I did not send a written letter to anyone saying, "I don't belong to you" anymore, but my FOO are not my people; not in my heart. They are strangers who didn't accept me. I made my own identity.

So I sort of divorced my family of origin too, although I'd never do that to my family of choice! And, of course, I didn't hurt anyone by this divorce. It is w hat they wanted. I am not in the "in" crowd of my FOO. And, Lord help me, I am better off that way.
 
Last edited:

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Your girls do not think you are "baaaaaaad." The drugs took over and are changing rational thought to drug thought. A person on drugs is never in his/her right mind.
Well, Swot, then their irrational drug thoughts think I am baaaaad. It is okay, I know I loved them as best I could, it's just that it has been such a long battle Serenity. It hurts, you know? 20 years for Rain, 14, for Tornado, of this craziness. When does it end? Where is the tipping point? Nobody knows. Until they wake up, I am quite cognizant of the fact, that I am the target. That is hard. I do have to build up walls of defense to carry on. Hubs doesn't understand "Why do you have to keep reviewing this? Stop talking about it."
Well, he is not the target........huh. This time, I am determined to keep them out of the house. Four months of intense work, this is. I am grateful for Cd, otherwise I would probably have caved again. I have learned a lot. Thanks to all of you. Yay you guys.....
I hope you have a happy ending with your girls. In the meantime, I'm so glad you have loved ones who are able to love you the way you deserve to be loved.
Thank you Serenity. Me too. I feel for everyone who goes through this with an only child. That is really, really tough. Sigh.
leafy
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I did not send a written letter to anyone saying, "I don't belong to you" anymore, but my FOO are not my people; not in my heart. They are strangers who didn't accept me. I made my own identity.

So I sort of divorced my family of origin too, although I'd never do that to my family of choice!
You did this for a good reason Serenity, it is called sanity and self preservation. Not to mention that you tried, you really, really tried. You are not some cold hearted calloused person, who just flipped them all off and walked away.
This took a lot of soul searching on your part.
Good for you Serenity, because you didn't just shrink away from the idea of family all together, you took your awful experiences and turned them around to create a family, with children who needed you.
Good for you sister, that took love, strength and courage.
Good for you, and your children who benefitted greatly from your love, and you and hubs, from theirs.
:hugs:
leafy
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
With all my heart, thank you, Leafie. I could never have done it the way this young woman did. I could not have done cut offs either, like my sister did. Or write mean letters to anyone, like my brother did to me. No, I didn't read it because the first paragraph was "these are things that bother me about you" or something like that. Coward. Why didn't he just tell me?

When I think of FOO I just shudder and am glad I am not like them.

Thank you so much again.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
You are not like them, thus the shunning.
Too bad for them, they could have learned a lot from you. Such a great loss.
But, you my dear, have done very, very well, despite the meanness, the coldness you grew up with.
So what if you are the "out" group with them, who the heck would want to be the "in" group?

I am thankful to read your posts, those to me as well as to others, and I will say this again. From what you write, your heart thoughts show what a genuinely lovely person you are.
I am very glad to "know" you.
It is too bad your sibs are the way they are.
It is not because of you, Serenity, it is because of them......
leafy
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Leafie. I love your posts. They are so smart and beautiful and wise.

I don't want to be in the "in" crowd. It is actually an "in" crowd of two. She took in my brother after shunning him first. Go figure.

No matter how much somebody is angry at a family member, there is no reason to send mean letters and do cut offs or call the police. I was not an angel in my FOO. But they were no better. It's just that they buttered up my mother and she was nicer to them than me.

My sister was always afraid not to be in the "in" crowd. I used to listen to her cry on the phone when it was HER turn to be on the receiving end of her Mean Girl friends and I remember clearly thinking, "Why does she even want to be friends with people like that?"

She reconnected with the same Mean Girls later in life...a collection of mostly party people, drinkers, some cocaine users, and by her own description she felt a lot of them were screwed up and even "borderline." Everyone is messed up except her. Must be nice. But I do think, by her description of her reconnected "friends" that most were rather bizarre.

Anyhow, going to watch a movie with hubby. Have a great night! :)
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Who shuns wants to define the family or social group. It is the ultimate power tool, defining who is in and who is out.
So true, like the mean girls in high school. So childish and immature, but it happens all through life. The banality of evil. How did Hitler rise? Surely, there were those who objected to this insanity, from the beginning. It spreads like a plague. The ugliness. The evil.
It is what happens on smaller scales throughout society. Family systems. If one does not go along with it, then that one or the small group is targeted.
What I do not get, is why people go along with it. Are they blind? Or, is it too much, to buck the "system"? Are they "standing down" to protect themselves?
Shunning: Telling the story of who is in or out of the family. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Power. There has to be something here related to the idea of shame and decay.
I believe you are correct. Shame and decay.
And in my family, it appears to be me.
Too bad for them.
They truly missed out. You went home and took care of your mother.
A testimony of your capacity for love and forgiveness.
I am sorry things are so twisted, for each of us.

leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
What I do not get, is why people go along with it.
You are talking about shunning here, New Leaf. Why people go along with others among them being shunned, when they could oppose it?

The most basic answer is that there is something basic in us that differentiates between self and other and us and them. It is a survival instinct, I think. Because if we were confused about it, we would be killed at the most extreme. We need to be able to recognize who is in her group. Look at a small child who suddenly looks up in panic and realizes that her people have moved along...and she does not recognize the faces around her. You can say it is fear of abandonment, but there is also the even more primitive fear of being lost, separated from one's own. Those like me. Because for a small child the only way she knows who she is, is by who owns her. Who she belongs to.

So I think that until we reach a certain age of independence, we need to belong, and we follow the lead of those who define this for us.

Many adults never go further than this. They stay like children, following what elders or leaders say about who is in and who is out. Need I go further than Donald Trump? (Nothing political here.)

For people that chose to think for themselves, I think you will find more discernment about going along with norms. Although not always. I think the pull to belong is very, very strong. People, most people, will do what it takes to keep in good stead with their group. It is a very fearsome thing to be thrown out of your social group. In traditional societies it is the loss of most everything. That is why they call it social death.

I was thinking at the beginning of this post about prisoners. In prisons there are extremely rigid rules about racial belonging. Whites, blacks, natives, latinos, and asians stay segregated in their own group. They cannot sit next to, eat next to or otherwise affiliate with others outside their racial groups, without risking extreme censure by their group. Those who are mixed race must choose a side. Those in mixed race relationships, with mixed race children, too must pick a side. Anybody that bucks the system will be beat or killed.

I think it is not about racism. I think it is about order, and the ability to impose and enforce order.

COPA
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Trying to throw members of any group out is for control. Starts very early in school. It gives the abusers a sense of belonging at the expense of other people. Jmo
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Shunning is such a hurt filled thing. I have been shunned twice that I know of. I had posted before that there may have been other times when I may not have recognized the shunning for what it was. This time, all told, has been in the works for seven years, since my father's death.

So this has been a progressive shunning.

Oh how freaking strange these people are.

Can it really be true they don't even miss me?!?

Well, how do you like that.

***

For someone to write (on beautiful stationery) labeling the family as nasty and cutting themselves off for that reason ~ woot! I will think about doing this.

I would love it.

But that is the point. I would not do that. Neither would any of you. When presented with the nasty ugliness of the behaviors in our families of origins, each of us tried harder. No one was willing to make that family dinner I always used to post about; I made it.

Multiple times.

And my sister would have her children march around the table waving flags and singing patriotic songs until everyone was ready to throw up and go home. Or would have her grand place her hand over her heart and recite the Pledge of Allegiance over and over again at the top of her lungs.

And then, demonstrate same in sign language.

And then, take out cards with the President's faces on them and have the three year old name the Presidents.

I kid you not.

And it was just all so unusual but not really offensive ~ except that it was. Little kids are cute. Performing to the point of glass-eyed boredom prevents sincere interaction with the children, and prevents interaction between the adults.

That is why she did it, every single time.

The question becomes why she did not just stay home. Or, host her own dinner. (Here is something else that p***** me off, you guys: My sister invariably says, now that she is married and has money and when she brings her husband and cannot make him recite the Pledge and then, repeat same in sign language because these things just do not have the same effect when it is an overweight male performing as they do when the performers are little girls. (Though she does tell him, in private, to just sit there on the sofa.) My sister invariably says to one and all, how hard D H and I are working to prepare and serve the family dinner.

She says this multiple times, and bless our hearts and etc.

And then? She says: "You worked so hard to make this dinner! We would have had it catered."

Arghhh! And I am just getting mad about that now.

She says that, alot. Oh, how hard you are working. Her husband wanted to help D H with the barbecue one time. D H said no. I always thought he was so rude and would get mad at D H.

But he was right.

Huh.

He could see it. I could not.

***

And I mean, that is fine. I am just saying it p***** me off.

It feels like getting bonged with a sock full of rice from behind a wall by someone who is laughing and so, you think it is a joke in poor taste but you laugh anyway.

Until they hurt your child.

***

If no one was willing to believe in any of us, I believed. If those poops acted badly, which they invariably did, I didn't see it.

Roar.

Each of us drove ourselves nuts questioning ourselves about why our sisters or mothers seemed so weirdly outside the bounds and why our brothers behaved like Mafia hitmen. (Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.) And that is just what they are like, you guys. Think about it.)

But we never once blamed them, until we were healthy enough ourselves to see the pointless ugliness in what they were doing. That key word, pointless, is the operative phrase. (No. The operative phrase here is: Healthy enough. :O) What have these people gained by their stupidly hurtful acts? Nothing. It drives me batty. I just cannot figure out the win and there has to be one. There has to be some reason why this is the preferred modus operandi. Here is a secret: (It might not be a true secret but I suspect that it is.) The reason they unite, the mother and the sister, has to do with fear of us and what we know and who we are. I could be wrong about that of course, but nothing else makes sense.

Maybe, that is why we are insufferable to them.

***

I really am still so angry over this. I will always be angry about it. I will always miss them and wish for them in my life. (Just not the way they really are, of course.) There are times I am so disgusted by their behaviors. (Like when I actually force myself to see what they are actually doing.) We can label it all kinds of psychiatric things and say they aren't really responsible and blah, blah ~ but at bottom, it is all the same: A series of moral slippages.

Shunning is another incidence of the stupidly pointless uglinesses running our family genetic lines ~ running my line, for sure.

Given what I have learned here on FOO Chronicles, this is what I now think about shunning: It takes a certain personality type to instigate a shun. To perpetuate a shun ~ to see the hurt to someone and know you could stop it and choose instead to keep hurting them (and I just cannot believe they don't miss me ~ WTF?!?)

*** Okay. So, Copa, you will know the answer to this one: Is this where projection comes in? Where villainy happens? And where alliance then occurs? Is that the dynamic of shunning? Does it become a tighter and tighter thing, do the lies told become the only truths known? Huh. No wonder they don't miss me, those poops. ***

that requires a certain kind of mindset, too. We can talk about survival of the fittest and genetic heritage all we like...those being shunned are the fittest. We lived through what we lived through and we did what we could for the others while we could do it and then we moved on. We did not become religious fanatics. We tended not to become those who believe they are secretly destined to save the world. We just lived our lives and did the best we knew.

We did well.

I make great pastry, you guys. I loved my work, and was good at it. I love my life now, though there is pain over the kids and my stupidly ugly, amoral family of origin.

Whatever.

Then our kids fell.

Even then, we did not give up or give in or stop trying or stop trying to learn. We found this site. We work here very hard to set ourselves straight.

And we are doing it.

***

We posted here before about Jacob and being sold into slavery with the collusion of the father. What we didn't talk too much about was that, to Jacob, and according to the father too, the father still had authority over Jacob even after Jacob, no longer a slave, was in fact a wealthy, powerful man. The father would not have spoken to the recovered Jacob regarding vengeance on his brothers had the father not believed himself in a position of authority over Jacob even after the series of moral slippages resulting in Jacob's being sold into slavery by his own family.

I am going to find that thread and bring it back.

That is exactly our position.

Sold into slavery, the child kept in the dungeon at the center of Ozymandis. I finally remembered the title of that story: Those Who Leave Ozymandis.

We leave.

That is the difference.

Cedar

Okay. So, I couldn't find the story. I did find this poem.


marker2.gif
Ozymandias




  • I MET a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which still survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

Okay. Here it is: Those Who Leave Omelas. No wonder I could never find it. I had the title confused with the Shelly piece. In any event, there are those who leave Omelas: We do.

We leave Omelas; we refuse to barter by its systems and we probably always did refuse.

That is the difference.

Moral slippage.

These people (our families of origin) know better than to do what they are doing. Of course they do. A series of moral choices: the banality of evil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas

***

I am seeing everything so differently, now. Anger before was tinged with surprise. That was when we started; when I decided to have a look at what happened. Remember needing witness to see what happened to me, and to all of us, through ethical eyes ~ through eyes that would know that what was happening was wrong? I am seeing everything about them through those same, ethical eyes. This business of shunning. Once we find our people (that would be you guys, for me) and then, find ourselves able to stand up again ~ this whole shunning business is morally wrong. From its inception. From the first "What would Cedar do?" to my mother finding it so funny and so interesting that there should be such intense jealousy between my sister and myself over my mother to the final, unbelievable nastiness my sister did to my daughter ~ did, willfully did, to her own niece.

***

Okay. So, I was rereading before posting like usual. I read the part about you guys being my people. I started thinking about who else was my people. I have alot of people who are actually my people. I think they don't think the most important or amusing thing about me is whether I am jealous of my sister over my mother. What a twisted presentation of a mindset!

I am seeing everything so differently, now.

When my mother first said that, about how funny it was to see the jealousy over her between my sister and myself? I thought I must be jealous. Why else would my own mother say such a thing unless it were true?

That is what I mean about seeing things differently.

My mother wanted that jealousy (and the hurt and anger and self defeat that lives beneath all jealousy) to be the thing that mattered, between my sister and myself.

Serenity and Copa, is this the same for you.

Leafy, you have posted that your mother requests that the siblings make amends in the time remaining. Are the underlying currents similar in your family of origin?

I just can hardly believe how differently I am interpreting the stupidly hurtful things my people do. Is it in response to pain, or is this kind of behavior the simple, everyday, ho hum banality of evil.

A series of moral slippages. Like a series of descending musical notes, or the screen that fades to black.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
It feels like getting bonged with a sock full of rice from behind a wall by someone who is laughing and so, you think it is a joke in poor taste but you laugh anyway.
This is exactly what it is like...going along with it, when you are being done in. Who could believe it was on purpose. Certainly not me. She did these awful things, my sister, on purpose, I knew it. That was made me so mad. Yet still I could not believe it. I rendered myself the liar.
The reason they unite, the mother and the sister, has to do with fear of us and what we know and who we are.
What we know, in my case, is not a dynamic. My sister is the only one left. My sister is truly the emperor with no clothes. She is so certain in her own truth, that she is above, that she does not care about any rival narrative.

I could not believe it that she told me the last (not current) university where she worked as a professor told her they saw her as an "embarrassment." Would you not have eaten moldy food crawling with maggots before you told your sister that? Unless you were certain in yourself that the reality was otherwise.

In my fantasies I believe that my sister always believe that I would best her. And I do.
To perpetuate a shun ~ to see the hurt to someone and know you could stop it and choose instead to keep hurting them
Is this where projection comes in? Where villainy happens? And where alliance then occurs? Is that the dynamic of shunning? Does it become a tighter and tighter thing, do the lies told become the only truths known?
Cedar, I do not know. Let me think about this.

You are shunned because you are dangerous. While it feels to the perpetrator of the shun that they are punishing...an offense, a transgression...at the base of it is fear and anxiety. Because he doing the shunning feels the person shunned has broken the rules of the group.

But if I think about it, is the sense of a broken rule, an excuse, a cover story that covers up the shunner's extreme discomfort. The discomfort could be a sense of vulnerability, shame, guilt, fear, or anger that comes from a sense of losing power.

So if I look at it that way shunning is a defensive move, to deal with one's own emotions which are discordant with the shunner's sense of herself as strong in certain ways.

If we look at it this way the shunner will have to keep up shunning to keep at bay their own emotional reaction. A management solution so to speak.

So at first it is a flip: She is out of control, not me. I will make it so by acting proactively. I will shun her so that she does not make me feel angry, weak, vulnerable. (Of course this is not conscious.) The flip becomes she is shunned. I am the master of myself and my realm (this is mother speaking). She is now the penitent, abandoned child who I have he from the family for her sins. (The sins being that the mother may have felt stuff she did not like or even feared she might feel.

So the weakness is projected into the other. With two or more people uniting together with the same cover story. Your mother is the instigator, Cedar. Your sister goes along with it.

At the basis of shunning, at its roots is fear or some equally fearsome emotion that threatens to leak through.
We posted here before about Jacob and being sold into slavery with the collusion of the father.
Cedar, Joseph. Who was Jacob anyway? Should we be reading his story, too?
We leave Omelas; we refuse to barter by its systems and we probably always did refuse.

That is the difference.
Yes. And your mother, Cedar cannot abide this. As long as you were a little girl where she could scare or humiliate or use you, she could manage her emotions this way. Now she cannot.

It is ugly. I am sorry, Cedar. For each of us.

My son rang my doorbell last night at 10. He is now with M "working" at the other house.

COPA
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Oh, Copa.

M is on scene in a better, stronger way this time, Copa. That will make all the difference.

You are stronger too, and you and M are united in how you see the future.

Wishing all good for your family, Copa.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I have mentioned the social anthropologist Mary Douglas in reference to her book, Purity and Danger. That was just one of her books.

Here is a passage about another of her books that might enlighten us more on shunning. I will look for copies of each of them. This is from wikipedia:

In Natural Symbols (first published 1970), Douglas introduced the interrelated concepts of "group" (how clearly defined an individual's social position is as inside or outside a bounded social group) and "grid" (how clearly defined an individual's social role is within networks of social privileges.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Leafy, you have posted that your mother requests that the siblings make amends in the time remaining. Are the underlying currents similar in your family of origin?
I don't know Cedar, it's not so much about making amends as it is about being close. She wants us to be a tight knit family, with Christmas and Birthday card sending, all of that. We were not really close after our teen years. Brother stayed on the East Coast to graduate. Lil sis is 5 years under me, and we love one another, but not too much communication. Older sis, well she is an entirely different story. If someone agrees with her, she feels a "closeness".
I used to call older sis quite regularly. After the big move over here, then the hightailing it back, I had to examine things. I realized as long as I played by her rules, we would have a relationship. It was not balanced. I wasn't considered an equal, much less allowed my own feelings and opinion.
I don't think mom has any ulterior motives, she wants us to be family. The problem with this is that we are supposed to just ignore the dominance sis desires. Ignore and wash over the extremes she goes to, to assert her way.
My brother and older sis used to be really close, but with dad's illness, and sis insistence on controlling things, bro was real upset with that. He saw her in action, she dominated and had this grandiose idea that she was the champion for dad's care. It caused a huge rift.
Then, mom became ill and there were promises made that were not kept. Sis dropped the ball several times. This caused hardship on lil sis and bro. Lil sis stayed with mom throughout her chemo and went home for a bit, big sis promised to stay and help mom, but when lil sis came back, mom was alone, weak on the couch, unable to move. Big sis was not there. This made lil sis very angry.
So, it is more that mom wants us to be family, but big sis has her own take on reality and conduct, decency and moral code.
From what I can see, mom has consistently not wanted to address issues which involve big sis, even from our childhood days. I think sis had a lot of control over everything. Nana thought she had spunk, mom just didn't have the energy to buck her, so just let things go.
It is amazing to me how one child can have so much influence over an entire family.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out when mom becomes more ill.......but brother and lil sis pretty much have big sis pegged now.
They have seen up close and personal, what she is capable of, so, we shall see.

My situation is different, it is more that mom would rather ignore the bullying behavior than address it. I do not see mom as manipulative or orchestrating things.
In reality, confronting big sis does no good, she will just throw a tantrum, and it is always everyone else's fault.
Classic eh?
How the heck can one person have so much power?
Sis is shunning me, has been for a couple years. But, during Holiday gatherings, she makes sure to call from her phone. It's weird. Like a show.
I better be ready for the finale, it is sure to be something of a showdown.

leafy
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
My sister does want to see herself as powerful and dominating, when she is really a nutcase. That is all I have to say about her.

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

Just like in The Godfather.

These people are amoral I think, Copa.

Cedar, Joseph. Who was Jacob anyway? Should we be reading his story, too?

Jacob fought an angel who touched him, or wounded him, on the thigh. Jacob won. Copa, that first therapist told me that story in the context of therapy.

More than once, he told me that story.

Whenever I think about Joseph, I get it confused with Jacob and the part about being touched on the thing ~ I meant thigh.

:eek:

Cedar
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Leafy, would it be alright to ask how your mom is doing?
Of course Cedar, thank you for asking. So far, so good. She has been incredibly strong, considering.
We talk every Sunday.
But.......I think my mom would not say if she wasn't feeling well, perhaps....It is not in her nature to complain? That old "Keep your sunny side up!" attitude. Is that perfectionism?
Yup.
It is a strange feeling, knowing mom has a terminal illness, being so far away. It is de ja vu ish, same with my dad. Except, big sis, kept calling me and telling me "this is it"......I ended up going back East every year for six years. That was expensive. Yikes.

As far as I know, mom is okay.......
Thank you for asking Cedar.

On another note......hubs came home from urologist appointment.
"Bad news, doctor says I have bugs in my urine, could be cancer, will find out next week."
SIGH.
Will someone just wake me up from this nightmare?


Please say a prayer for hubs.
thank you

leafy
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Thank you Cedar, you are very kind, your prayers mean so much to me. Prayers are powerful.
One day at a time.........
leafy
 
Top