Prison bail set at $100,000

[Lil]

I wanted to add...Donna seems to know what she's talking about. Everything she said is spot-on what I would say. Some states will have more programs than others...but it's pretty uniform. Worst case scenario and he has to go to a real prison, he can get drug treatment and other programs, counseling, etc. I'm sure my husband can tell you more.

 

[Jabberwockey]

My wife, Lil, has told me about your post and felt compelled to say something to you. First off, no, I have not read every post in here. My wife has summarized and I am going off of that. Hopefully I will make my reason clear by the end of this so bear with me. I have worked in the Department of Corrections for 22 years in several different capacities. I was a corrections officer, guard, co, whatever prison guards are called in your area for 14 years, most of which was spent working at a maximum security facility. I worked for 5 and a half years in Probation and Parole doing electronic monitoring supervision. I worked again as a corrections officer in a minimum security facility for several months before being promoted to case manager/case worker. The reason I mention this is so you understand that I have broad experience dealing with many different types of offenders/inmates/convicts. My wife and I have had some fairly serious issues with our son. Granted, no where near as bad as what you are going through but our son stole from us, pawned my guitars, lies to us about EVERYTHING no matter how trivial or easy to verify that he is lying. Its been bad enough over the last year and a half that I've vented to some of the offenders that I'm comfortable enough to talk to about things like this. Yes, I know this sounds bad but take into consideration that I've known my two workers longer than I've known my wife! No joke either, I met them not long after I started and my wife and I have been together 15 years. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I have been told by first time offenders and career offenders alike that NOTHING their parents did had any significant effect on the bad choices they made. Two words you need to remember here. Two simple words that sum up all of humanities greatest accomplishments as well as its most heinous mistakes. Free will. When push comes to shove we ALWAYS have a choice. Does that mean that either choice is a good one? No, it doesn't. More often than not we are picking between the lesser of two evils. Did you do a perfect job raising your son? No, and just for the record, neither did any of the rest of us. You try to teach your children right from wrong and how to be a good person and when all is said and done, all you can do is hope that it sinks in before they get into serious trouble. As your son is currently in fairly serious trouble, now all you can do is hope that he learns from it and becomes a better person.

My wife said that someone else with Corrections experience has said that him going to prison is better than staying in County Jail. This is true because most jails are only meant to house offenders for short periods of time. They are not designed nor do the cities or counties have the resources to provide drug/alcohol treatment, education both traditional and vocational, or to provide any significant work experience. Prisons provide these services plus many more. And maybe it will be the motivating factor to keep him from bowing to pressure again.

 

[Lil]

I've known my two workers longer than I've known my wife!

That's my hubby!

That does sound strange, doesn't it? His two workers are both in for murder, hence the long sentences. He met them as a new guard at the maximum security prison and now they are in the minimum with parole coming up. So yes...my husband has known prison inmates longer than he's known me. Weird, huh?

 

[Jabberwockey]

Have you ever seen Shawshank Redemption? Yes? IGNORE IT!! Its a good movie but its a work of fiction. Yes, there are incidents of rape that occur in prison but the fact of the matter is that rape is not as prevalent in prisons as most people are led to believe. I can give you some basic tips to pass on to your son to help him avoid potentially bad situations in prison and he will either listen or not, its his choice and will probably be told this if he gets locked up.

Dont be a loner. It makes you a target. Go to the chapel, go to the library, work, whatever. He will quickly discover that busy time is quicker time.
Dont borrow no matter how trustworthy you think that individual is. Most everyone in prison has an agenda and more often than not, its not good.
Dont gamble. Anyone who has worked in corrections for longer that a year knows that gambling happens all the time. We cant stop all infractions of the rules. If he does feel compelled to gamble, don't bet more than you are willing and or able to pay. Certain offenders will use coercion over a debt to gain sexual favors.
Dont do drugs or alcohol!! First off, refer to the debt issue previously discussed. Best case scenario if you get drunk and pass out in prison is that you're stuff will be stolen.
If you have a problem, talk to staff!! Thats what we're there for, especially the classification staff. Sorry, the caseworkers.

 

[Lil]

It's late and we're going to bed. If you want more advice, etc., post. Jabberwockey won't be on here much...but if you have a question he can answer, I'll let him know. I usually check in every day.

 

[Jabberwockey]

What about contributing to the way my son became? The first thing my son said to me when I sat down with him and tears were exchanged was " you know this is ( mr.meany step-dad) faults right"?

Ask ANY offender who has figured it out an grown up, its their own fault. One of the biggest issues that most criminals face is admitting that they made the choice that got them into this situation. As long as he denies his part in this and pushes the blame onto others he will continue to make poor choices.

Just so you know, its been my experience that most people incarcerated in prison are not bad people, they just made bad decisions.

 

[donna723]

Jabberwocky is exactly right! Actually random violence against individuals is pretty rare. Almost all of the violence we ever had was from guys getting in to things they shouldn't be getting in to. We have a big problem with gangs, both the street gangs and the white supremacist groups. He should avoid them like the plague! And never get in to debt with anybody for anything. Certain guys figure out how to get drugs in and sell them but if the purchaser can't pay up, there WILL be trouble. Same for gambling debts ... just don't do it. And we had some guys who managed to amass huge quantities of commissary items like candy bars, snacks or hygiene items that they double the price on, then sell to other inmates on credit. Then if they can't pay up, there will be problems. Most of the inmates who have problems in prison bring it on themselves.

 

[toughlovin]

I agree that Jabberwalkys post was right on and very helpful!!

Worriedmom I was afraid of the same things the first time my difficult child went to jail. He was 19 and is a very good looking kid, and i too was worried about rape etc. I quickly learned that in fact my difficult child was not afraid in jail, the biggest problem for him was the boredom!! In jail everyone is waiting for trial, or sentancing and so I think things like rape are less likely because they dont want to do anything that would end up getting them a longer sentance!

My difficult child has been in jail a total of 3 times. The last time he talked about some fights that happened. I asked him if he was getting beaten up. He said no. He stays out of the drama and jail house politics. I asked him more about it. He said there were 4 rules you have to follow... these are not the rules of the jail but the rules of the inmates.

1. There is honor among theives. Everyone in there almost is in there for stealing something....but the rule is you dont steal from each other. Along with this honor code is that they are tough on certain kinds of crime... his example was of a guy that was in for stealing purses from old ladies. My difficult child had been playing cards with this guy not knowing what he was in for... when difficult child realized word was going around about his crimes against old ladies he let people know that he had not known what he was in for and then he stayed clear because he knew some of the guys had it in for this guy. And being in for sexual abuse or being a cop... those guys are put into a different unitl.

2. Pay your debts. So if you borrow something pay it back with whatever interest you owe.... I guess the guys buy stuff from canteen and if you get a loan, you have to pay it back double the next week. It is a problem if you cant pay!! So as Jabberwalky said better not to get into debt!

3. Dont snitch. Yes things go on, like people bring in drugs etc. Keep your mouth shut.

4. Dont get too chummy with the guards... this is related to no. 3.... if you get too chummy they will think you are a snitch.

I found it interesting that my difficult child, who has major problems with authority and rules, was so clear what the inmate rules were and he followed them.

Absolutely the biggest problem for him was the boredom of jail.

TL


Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Woriedmom]

Thank you SO much JW&Lil, ,Tl, Donna and all others. I will surly pass the info. to my son...(is that okay since all phone calls are monitored?)
Now I'm concerned since I haven't heard from him in a couple days. Is this normal? My hubby says that at some point that "Free one a day" phone privilege gets taken away. I mean I believe there is a way you can pay for the inmates to call the outside but I will only do this if I can designate who he can call. For the most part just to call me, my daughter, 2 friends of mine from church...( the non-judgers) . I wouldn't want him getting in touch with his "croonies" from the outside. He can't remember any of their phone numbers is why he doesn't call them, I'm sure.

I forgot to mention the last time my son called me, he called from the social service dept. in the jail. ( I don't know if this was allowed or not but whoever was the supervisor allowed the call, it was the first time he got a look at his charges. I think at that moment he realized just how serious the charges were, they do sound horrifying. He isn't the type to put the blame on anyone if he gets the opportunity to speak to the judge..I told my son to let the judge know he has a drug problem and was on drugs the night of these crimes, my son said "it won't matter mom" but wouldn't it be beneficial for him to mention this?

I also forgot to mention that yesterday afternoon might've been some glimmer of hope? I managed to call the head of our city's public defender who assigned my sons public defender. He seemed bothered by the fact that this PD did not contact my son yet. He gave me my sons PD' name and his phone number which might've been a private number? I left a message for his secretary and will call again, and again, and again and again...each time giving her a detailed message about my son, the prison he has been incarcerated in. I will bombard the secretary and fill this guys voicemail. Um...would this be a good idea? lol ( I don't want the guy mad at me ) but...this is my son's life on the line.

It's terrible what these drugs can make people do. I think the hardest for parents is missing their children even when the haven't physically gone anywhere, parents who still house their kids ( no matter what age )...where did our kids go? Some are still at home yet they are lost, It's like the feeling you get when a loved dies. but... and there is a but...so long as a person is still breathing they can change.

 

[Lil]

I told my son to let the judge know he has a drug problem and was on drugs the night of these crimes, my son said "it won't matter mom" but wouldn't it be beneficial for him to mention this?

No. It won't matter. The Judge has very little choice at this stage. At preliminary hearing, your son won't speak at all and there will be no arguments by attorneys. The prosecution puts on witnesses to show there is enough evidence to proceed to trial. That's it. The defense usually makes a motion to dismiss the charges and 99% of the time it is denied. 99.999% maybe. This is why I said earlier, they often waive the prelim.

I will bombard the secretary and fill this guys voicemail. Um...would this be a good idea? lol

Oh God no! All you'll do is annoy the poor secretary. Call once a day. Maybe twice. If he has time he'll call you back. You can't force him to be more attentive. This is VERY early in the proceedings. Really, he can take a look at the charges and be able to tell if the case is a winner at prelim. He may go thru prelim, he may waive it, he may ask for a continuance for more time to prepare.

I will surly pass the info. to my son...(is that okay since all phone calls are monitored?

You aren't telling him to do anything illegal. At this phase he's in jail, not prison. Keep in mind JW's pointers were full prison pointers. TL's were for jail. Basically, keep your head down. Mind your own business. Dont borrow and don't become indebted. There's nothing wrong with telling him that.

FWIW, speaking of prisons, my husband told me last night that in 22 years, he has never known of a totally random act of violence. Assaults are usually for a reason, whether insult, debt, etc.

 

[toughlovin]

My guess is he can call you collect... and jail calls are expensive. There are systems where you can put money in a prepaid account for him to call you, and you specify the numbers he can call. It is cheaper than just random collect calls. So he can call you and he probably will.

Has he asked you for canteen money yet? He probably will.... so think about if and how much money you want to put in his canteen account. This allows him to buy snacks and stamps and other items. I wouldnt put a lot in, but I personally think it is reasonable to put something in there to make life a little better for him.

As far as calling the attorny, I would not hound him. You left a message, and I would wait a couple of days and call again. Lil is right, not much is going to happen at the prelim.... really the court system is a very SLOW process! It is frustratingly slow.... I tell people you hurry up to get to court, just to wait and get a new date. Most of the time that is all that happens.

TL


Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Jabberwockey]

It is very normal not to receive phone calls on a daily basis. As a caseworker, I am always receiving calls from upset parents/family member because Little Johnnie (a euphemism for the current offenders name) hasnt called in several days. We do a quick check to see if they are in the hole (Administrative Segregation-A description of which could be its own thread!!) for some reason but generally its because they couldnt get to the phone (at my institution, phones are first come, first served but its not like that everywhere) are out of phone minutes, or are in a busy routine and just havent found the time. It is common for the caseworkers to give offender phone calls based on circumstances. This is only for emergencies and wont happen often for a single offender unless the family is having a run of bad luck.

Phone systems vary across the country although, at least in prisons versus county jails, there is a serious push towards eliminating the collect calls because they are god awful expensive and most families cant afford them and having a system where either the offender or family members can purchase minutes. No, you have NO control over who he uses these minutes to call.

Thank you SO much JW&Lil, ,Tl, Donna and all others. I will surly pass the info. to my son...(is that okay since all phone calls are monitored?)

LOL!! Thanks for the laugh!! Sorry, but ALL correctional employees are well aware of the inmate code and for the most part encourage it! It helps to keep them out of trouble. Most of the tips I gave you are given to our new offenders when they first arrive at the institution by staff and offenders at an orientation.

As far as getting too familiar with staff: as my wife said, I work in a prison not a jail. In prison, its not that big of a deal as long as you arent actually snitching. Offenders know which staff members collect snitches.

 

[Woriedmom]

glad you ladies caught me before I made a silly mistake. I don't want to annoy anyone, I however will call both on Monday and Tuesday, since the preliminary is on Wednesday. I called 1 lawyer who said just to talk to my son and show up at the hearing he would ask for more time of course, but just for that would cost $3,5000. I mean I don't have this kind of money, when I mentioned to my husband it would be possible if we skipped next months mortgage payment he asked if I was out of my mind. : (

I will keep you all posted. I don't want to turn this into a "Prison-jail" forum so I guess I'll quit posting so much, it is going off the topic of substance abuse...except for the scary thought that this is where the seriousness of drug abuse can take our difficult child's if they don't wise up.

I took a peek into the other site for mom's with kids in Prison for years and well...I don't think I'm quite ready for the "grieving process" just yet. This site actually gives me more support like COM and others have said from the start ...jail is the best for our sons since we at least know they are not on the street. Which reminds me...should I bother to get his car out of the police pound? The officer down there said I have until Monday before they will charge any fees so I have to make up my mind by then. Any thoughts?

 

[donna723]

I don't think it's unusual at all that the PD hasn't contacted him yet. Most of the time they never even meet with them until right before the preliminary hearing.

And whatever you do, DO NOT bombard these people or anyone in the "system" with phone calls! Trust me on this one, you do not want to p!ss off the secretary! Repeated calls to any branch of the "system" will not do what you think they will do. Honestly, when we got those kind of calls, we would snicker and roll our eyes and make snarky remarks about an inmate, a grown man, whose mommy was trying to handle things for him! I know that's not what you want to hear but it's the truth.

And for HIM to tell them that he has a drug problem and needs help is OK. They will find that out anyway. But under no circumstances should he try to use that as an excuse for what he did! It doesn't excuse it at all and no one will be even the slightest bit sympathetic or see it as a reason to not hold him responsible. HE took the drugs and HE committed the offenses and the responsibility for what he did is totally on HIM! Truth be told, probably 50%-75% of jail inmates did what they did while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It is not a excuse and they will look on him more favorably if he doesn't try to claim he wasn't responsible because he was on drugs at the time.

 

[toughlovin]

Keep posting... I think the jail/prison issues are one that many of us have had to deal with or might have to deal with some day. I know I am hoping that my difficult child turns things around this time, but I am also fully prepared for the fact he may end up doing some time if he doesnt.

I think your husband is right.... it is nuts to give up a mortgage payment to get a lawyer!! Dont do that, it puts you and your husband at risk and you should not do that! Dont go into a huge amount of debt to pay for a lawyer, that is why they have a court appointed lawyer and he will have a lawyer.... maybe not the best you can get, but someone who is on his side and will advise him.

I think if it was me I would get the car... no reason to pay fees for the impound lot. I agree that if he gets out at some point you should not give him the keys to the car though.... maybe sell the car to pay for costs while he is in jail?

TL




Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[GuideMe]

Yes, I would go get the car out of the impound, what is the point of letting it sit there and letting it accrue charges. If I am not mistaken, he will have to pay for it eventually. It's something that is owed. Like another poster posted here, store the car somewhere else, not in front of your house when he gets out of jail. Also, I know the jail around here doesn't allow inmates to make collect phone calls. You have to call the jail and see how it works. I remember my cousin had to use a pre-paid card or something to make phone calls.

 

[Woriedmom]

Saw my son yesterday, he is very depressed ( who wouldn't be right? ) I'm so depressed too but at the same time I know he's in a place where he can think. He's in a rough county jail, I don't want to say the name of the city I live in but it's one that's on the top of the list for killings, murders ...guns..etc. God only knows what kind of criminals are in his own cell with him. He says he takes his shoes in the shower with him so no one steals them , washes his underwear and socks in the sink that's in the cell. It's very very degrading.
The positive side is that there seems to be a BIG change in my sons attitude, now he knows the meaning of real humility and speaks like it too. Is this what it had to take for my son to get in his right mind? Those drugs had taken complete control over my son but he allowed it to happen, he knows this now. I don't know what the judge will order him tomorrow but...should by a miracle he gets probation there is NO WAY he will drive his car any time soon. He has to be at an arraignment for his D.U.I. in the other county do that should take away his drivers license for at least a year. We just found out that to get his car out of police impound it's going to cost $275. the car is his, he holds the tittle for it. So there are no payments, it's just his all on his own. So...do I take it out for him? Maybe get the car out and sell it? we know we can get at least $1,000 for it. Oh well, I can't worry about that right now...I've got too much to worry about as it is.
I'm feeling quite awful though about not getting him his court clothes in time, he wanted to wear a white collar shirt, black tie, pants. but he didn't get on the list in time. Should this make a difference in how the judge determines the outcome? does his appearance matter at all? oh I could just kick myself for not thinking about this sooner. Can someone help me not to feel so bad and just tell me IT WON'T MATTER?? oh dear.

 

[Lil]

I'm feeling quite awful though about not getting him his court clothes in time, he wanted to wear a white collar shirt, black tie, pants. but he didn't get on the list in time. Should this make a difference in how the judge determines the outcome? does his appearance matter at all? oh I could just kick myself for not thinking about this sooner. Can someone help me not to feel so bad and just tell me IT WON'T MATTER??

It WON'T matter!!! Take a deep breath and think about it for a second when you start freaking out and feeling guilty about stuff. ((BIG HUGS)) I mean that in the nicest way. You are kind of panicky right now. Do you really think a Judge is going to make decisions based upon a persons wardrobe? The judge knows he's sitting in jail. They are quite used to seeing people in inmate clothing (here they are blaze orange coveralls). So don't worry about a little thing like his clothing.

You say tomorrow is his DWI arraignment? I thought tomorrow was his preliminary hearing on the felonies? Does he have both in different counties on the same day?

Please, please, please, try to remain calm. He might get probation on the DWI, he might not. Realistically, that is such a tiny problem compared to the felonies it doesn't even matter. He will not get probation or any sentence at the preliminary hearing. That's not the purpose of that court appearance.

Did you ever hear from his lawyer?

 

[Lil]

As for the car...it's up to you. You can't sell it since he holds title (I suppose you could sell it for him and he would have to sign the title and bill of sale) or you could get a power of attorney to sell it for him (I did that for a friend once). Will they even let you get it out, since it's not your car? And if you get it out, you legally can't keep it from him, again, since he holds title. I suppose you could maybe have him sign something saying that he doesn't get the car back until he pays you the $275 back.

I really don't know what to say about all that.

 

[Woriedmom]

Oh yes tomorrow is the.felony charges, the.D.U.I. And.possession charges are in September. I'm sorry I guess I just don't understand the whole court process and.what kind of sentence these criminals get . So is there anyway tomorrow makes a difference if character witnesses are present? I don't know yet about his car. And here too is the.Orange jumpers worn. kinda scary.