Prison bail set at $100,000

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pasajes4

Well-Known Member
Legal fees are extremely high in criminal cases. I do not think a parent who does not the money unless they risk bankruptcy, is a good decision. I believe the poster is disabled and still has a two year old that needs financial security. I also believe that it is her husband who supports her financially who would have to come up with the money.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
I would find some way to do more if my child were facing an unfair prison sentence, whatever it may be. WM said her husband has been very harsh with her son. I deep down inside, by what she explained, do not like the way her husband has treated her son. Sorry, I said it. I don't like it. Maybe for once, I believe it wouldn't be too much to ask if hubby could support her in something that she wanted to do (no matter whatever it is she winds up choosing to do) instead of going by what he says and wants all the time. The marriage is suppose to be equal and so far, it seems that he has been calling all the shots in regards to her own son.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
I think it is wonderful that you would do that for your child. Not everyone can realistically do that. I personally would have walked out on a man like that a long time ago, but I am not in her situation. If she has no income, or property, I don't see how she could pay an attorney.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
I think it is wonderful that you would do that for your child.

Only in certain situations. As I said, I wouldn't be saying this if difficult child was facing a fair and reasonable prison sentence for crime committed. However, 5-10 years is extreme in my opinion, so therefore, I would do what I could to fight, but if I didn't have the money or any means, then there wouldn't be much I could do. I was only saying that because, if I remember correctly, she was asking or considering hiring a good lawyer at one time. Like I said, if i remembered correctly*, which is why i apologized before hand in my first comment today in case I didn't remember correctly. So obviously, (if I did remember correctly) I assumed, she had the money if she was considering it and asking our advice about it.

I personally would have walked out on a man like that a long time ago
Yes, me too.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Yeah, forgot her hub was a jerk.

However in no way at her age would I walk out a man simply because he was critical of a son who is a crimianl. I would leave for other reasons, but not that. So that is her choice. But this adult child has done serious crimes, not like most of our adult children, and I would not plan my life around protecting him. She can't.

Now if she wants to start a new life OF HER OWN, then that's healthy, but not to try to save her son, which can't be done. As you walk the path for many years (and I hope you DON'T) you will see how little influence we have over anyone, including our adult children. And difficult children don't tend to give back to us, so we do often end up alone and sad since we have to find companionship and support beyond our difficult children.

Under no conditions, however, would I give up all of my retirement for this adult child. He needs to face the consequences of theft and assault. And whatever that will be is out of anyone's hands except the judge. He can get services in prison that he probably will refuse to get outside of prison. So I agree and don't agree. I do not believe in saving our adult children who have done crimes to the degree this one did.

That doesn't mean I don't feel bad for WM. I DO!!!! It is devestating when you realize your child is not the person you raised him to be, and we DID raise them better. I have such a grown child. I can't figure out how he chose his path, but I also can't change him. So while I empathize with the sadness, I don't believe in rescuing an adult child from a serious crime. It can and often does repeat over and over again until we have no more money to help them and they are often no better. If they want to do better, it has to come from within them and it is usually a long process, although not always.

It is not an easy path to walk, but I do feel it is unhealthy for both our adult child and for us to keep taking care of them, even after they have obviously done something that infringes on the righst of others. I feel differently about people in jail for drug use. It's a crime that harms the person, not others. But this case is different...this adult child has a lot to think about. Can he change? Sure! But he has to want to. And that takes time. Most people in prison may be sorry, but how will they feel outside of prison? We have to give them time to process what they did and to take advantage of what is there for them.

That's my opinion. I never did try to get my difficult children out of trouble...one was one parole twice. Nobody got a lawyer for her. And she did quit her bad behavior. Not that it always works out positive, but at least they never did end up in jail...just sayin...of course we support any path somebody chooses to ake and these are all just opinions.
 
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Signorina

Guest
I would chose my innocent 2 year old and my marriage over hiring a lawyer for a criminal who happens to be my adult son.

It might break my heart - yes.

If I don't have the money to hire an attorney and if getting the money from limited marital funds means that my marriage will end - how the heck am I going to support myself and my toddler?

Her son made his choices. HE CHOSE THIS -

GM - you are making it sound like not hiring a lawyer is "not choosing her son." One has nothing to do with the other. One can be a loving and devoted parent without spending money one can't afford to prove such.

Yes, perhaps her marriage isn't ideal. Guess what - mine isn't either. My difficult child has put more strain on my marriage than anything my husband and I could have ever cooked up between the two of us. My husband is difficult child's biological and devoted father and we've been married for nearly 24 years - and my difficult child has been the biggest source of discord between us - moreso than losing a business, the death of both our fathers and h losing his job abruptly a year ago.

Her difficult child has been horrible to her husband and completely disrespectful to their home. He committed a violent crime and yes, it carries serious charges.That's on him - not on her. SHE CAN'T FIX IT. No matter how much love and money she throws at it. If all it took was mother love and money - all our difficult children would be stellar citizens.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
GM - you are making it sound like not hiring a lawyer is "not choosing her son." One has nothing to do with the other. One can be a loving and devoted parent without spending money one can't afford to prove such.

I'm not criticizing anyone else's advice, never have, so please do not criticize mine or accuse me of something. Remember, she asked about the lawyer previously. It's not like I pulled it out of thin air. I do not interfere with anyone else's advice or tell someone else that they're advice is wrong. I am simply responding to WM and that's it, just like everyone else has and is able to do. Is my advice less important than anyone else? Am I not allowed to respond? If so, please tell me now and I will refrain from speaking if only a certain few are allowed to respond. It just feels like if any time MWM disagrees with me, she always has to comment about it, I can not post without having fear MWM is going to swoop in and tell me I'm wrong about something (which 99% of the time happens) and then all the sudden, out of the blue, I start getting ganged up on by people who weren't even on the thread to begin with or already here, doesn't matter. I could be wrong, but it makes me feel like if MWM doesn't like what I'm saying, I better watch out or I will be ganged up on by her friends? This is how it's starting to feel.

Anyway, I stand behind what my advice was. If you all choose to disagree with it, that's fine and I respect it.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
And please remember, there are six pages of comments on here. I can not for the life of me remember everything that was said which is why i put the disclaimer in the beginning. When a thread has this many comments, I just respond to the latest because there is no way I can back up and read six pages worth of comments just to make a comment. I remember some things, not everything and I may not even remember some things correctly. That's why I put the disclaimer in so this way WM can't discard it if it doesn't apply.
 
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Signorina

Guest
Your perception is way off, GM. I may have not "been on this thread to begin with" (or I may have- it's a long thread) but I've posted on similar threads with WM. I responded here in response - not to your advice - but to your repeated posts (such as these) justifying your advice over and over again.

How dare you infer the I am some sort of patsy for MWM? She would be the first to tell you that we disagree fundamentally about many things. There's evidence of it all over the boards. Yet, we do so respectfully and with the absolute knowledge that we are posting from the same genuine place of support for each warrior mom on these boards.

You write above that you "if
you choose to disagree,that's fine and I respect it" --

Your posts seems to show otherwise.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
The mother of this young man has a great deal on her plate. I am truly more worried about her than her difficult child. They tend to adapt to whatever situation they wind up in. Her health is rather fragile, and worrying herself sick cannot be good for her or her ability to care for her daughter.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
Your perception is way off, GM. I may have not "been on this thread to begin with" (or I may have- it's a long thread) but I've posted on similar threads with WM. I responded here in response - not to your advice - but to your repeated posts (such as these) justifying your advice over and over again.

How dare you infer the I am some sort of patsy for MWM? She would be the first to tell you that we disagree fundamentally about many things. There's evidence of it all over the boards. Yet, we do so respectfully and with the absolute knowledge that we are posting from the same genuine place of support for each warrior mom on these boards.

You write above that you "if
you choose to disagree,that's fine and I respect it" --

Your posts seems to show otherwise.

Regardless, you called me out and you inferred and assume what I was thinking by saying what you did. I am not interfering with anyone elses advice and I would like the same afforded back to me. If you saw me justifying my advice over and over again, is because I am being told constantly that I am wrong by MWM. If my first comment today was just left alone, I wouldn't have said anything else unless WM replied to me and wanted to talk about it. If this were happening to you, you would feel the same way, especially if others start telling you that you are wrong too. Wouldn't you feel ganged up on? Anyway, I will bow out gracefully. I certainly don't want to be involved in an argument today and nor do I want to be sucked into one.

P.S. It wasn't just justifying my advice, it was more explaining it because I felt it was misunderstood.

The mother of this young man has a great deal on her plate. I am truly more worried about her than her difficult child. They tend to adapt to whatever situation they wind up in. Her health is rather fragile, and worrying herself sick cannot be good for her or her ability to care for her daughter.

And she is worried about her son, which is why she keeps asking and I'm trying to answer her questions and respond accordingly. This post isn't under PE , it's under substance abuse. If it was under PE, then I would have adjust my advice according to a mother who wanted to detach.
 
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SuZir

Well-Known Member
I don't have much knowledge about US judical system. However I do understand how you feel the sentence your son may be facing is out of proportion. I'm very sorry you and also your son are in this situation and I'm sure it is impossible not to worry.

You have to look the options you have realistically though. Can you afford for a lawyer? If you can, it is worth considering and I know I would do that for my son in those circumstances. But that is, if you can afford it. If you can't, then that is not the option and that fact is not worth getting yourself too upset over. I guess he has some kind of public defender anyway. If that is only thing he can have, it has to be enough. Even five years in prison is not worth you going bankrupt in trying to get him a better lawyer. He is your son, but you also have a younger child, who you have to take care of first. If you can't help your son in this, you can't.

Do you have a possibility to talk a knowledgeable lawyer, who could explain the process your son is facing and options you have to you? That kind of consult would maybe not be out of price range you could afford. While it would not help your son with his legal troubles, it could help to give you a clearer picture about what is going on, what kind of process this is and what are your son's options and help you come to terms with all this.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
What a wonderful and practical idea. Most attorneys will do a free consult. She might be able to ask if this is reasonable for a sentence. Her son could then work with his attorney to reduce the sentence. After sentencing, he has the right to appeal. It would be worth a shot.
 

Wendy23

Member
I agree that is a good idea and it may help to ease your mind that there is really nothing more that you can do.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
There are just so many things here that we DON'T know, it's hard to tell what really happened. Such as ... why was the amount of his bail raised so drastically. Something had to have happened to cause that. And by his own admission, this young man hasn't even been straight with his own court appointed attorney.

These are some very serious charges he is facing - multiple counts of aggravated assault with injuries to the victims plus robbery charges plus whatever else. I'm no expert but I did work in the "system" for 24 years and I would be extremely surprised if he would be given a sentence of just two years or less, especially if he's been in trouble with the law before. From what I've seen, a 5-10 year sentence is entirely appropriate, even lenient, considering all those charges. Believe me, it could have been much, much worse! When they talk about making a "deal", it usually means that the prosecutor and defense attorney have talked and agreed on a plea bargain ... in exchange for a guilty plea, the prosecutor agrees to reduce some of the charges to a lesser charge, one carry a lesser penalty. This is the best deal he's going to get and I hope he has the good sense to take it! If they reduced the charges to ones carrying a 5-10 year penalty and he chooses not to take the deal and go to trial, he will be tried on the original charges and they could carry a much longer sentence than 5-10 years! If he fights it, pleads not guilty, and is then found guilty at trial (and he WILL be found guilty!) he could get a nasty surprise when he is sentenced! And there won't be anything he or you can do about it!

And I sincerely hope that you won't risk huge amounts of money, drain a retirement account, or go in to debt to hire an expensive private attorney. What good would it do at this point? Just to try to convince a judge to give him a lesser sentence? Sentencing is only partly up to a judge. They do have some latitude but there are sentencing guidelines that they, by law, have to abide by, a range that the judge can pick from as he or she sees appropriate. If he thinks that pleading not guilty and then bankrupting his family to provide him with an expensive attorney and causing the county to go to the expense and trouble to conduct a trial will get him a shorter sentence, he is sadly mistaken. And don't forget, a 5-10 year sentence does not mean that he will do 5-10 years! In a time-building state prison he will be able to earn sentence credits for working and behavior credits that can reduce the time he actually does significantly, and he may become eligible for parole and get out even sooner.

And as for the "remorse" part ... I have seen very few who were truly remorseful for the fear, injuries or monetary losses that their victims suffered. They are sorry for themselves, sorry they got caught, sorry they have lost their freedom, sometimes even sorry for their own families. But I have seen very, very few who had genuine sympathy or guilty feelings for the pain that THEY caused their victims to suffer. Instead, they seem to see themselves as the victims, victims of "the system", victims of attorneys or prison officials, victims of other inmates, but no real concern for the ones who are the real "victims".
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
GM, hon, I did not say you were wrong. WE all have ideas of what we would do. I said I don't agree with you. And, heck, lots of times people have said they don't agree with me. And I don't agree with you, but I have been down this road much longer than you and I felt much like you at one time. You may never feel like me and I may never feel like you and that's ok. For your info, Sig and I disagree a lot.I respect her with every warrior mom fiber in my being, but we often agree to disagree.

Read Donna's post. She has experience and in my opinion it says it all. She KNOWS. WMs son did not just get caught with a bag of pot. It is serious what he did. She can't change that. She can only go broke and destroy her daughter's family.

There is another child involved here, a very young child, and that has to be a huge factor in any decision WM makes. Many of us have given them our life savings to get them out of trouble only to have them rinse/repeat. We speak from our own experiences. But that doesn't make our opinions right or wrong, just different :) Peace!
 
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Lil

Well-Known Member
Ladies (and men if appropriate) arguing among yourselves does NOT do WM any good at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

WM, You asked if it could be worse if he doesn't take the plea. Absolutely. It could be better, but chances are upon conviction the sentence would be longer. Every state has sentencing requirements with minimum and maximum sentences that the judge (or jury) chooses from.

For instance: In Missouri your son's charge would be Robbery in the First degree.
Robbery in the first degree.
569.020. 1. A person commits the crime of robbery in the first degree when he forcibly steals property and in the course thereof he, or another participant in the crime,
(1) Causes serious physical injury to any person; or
(2) Is armed with a deadly weapon; or
(3) Uses or threatens the immediate use of a dangerous instrument against any person; or
(4) Displays or threatens the use of what appears to be a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.
2. Robbery in the first degree is a class A felony.

Authorized dispositions.
557.011. 1. Every person found guilty of an offense shall be dealt with by the court in accordance with the provisions of this chapter, except that for offenses defined outside this code and not repealed, the term of imprisonment or the fine that may be imposed is that provided in the statute defining the offense; however, the conditional release term of any sentence of a term of years shall be determined as provided in subsection 4 of section 558.011.
2. Whenever any person has been found guilty of a felony or a misdemeanor the court shall make one or more of the following dispositions of the offender in any appropriate combination. The court may:
(1) Sentence the person to a term of imprisonment as authorized by chapter 558;
(2) Sentence the person to pay a fine as authorized by chapter 560;
(3) Suspend the imposition of sentence, with or without placing the person on probation;
(4) Pronounce sentence and suspend its execution, placing the person on probation;
(5) Impose a period of detention as a condition of probation, as authorized by section 559.026.

Sentence of imprisonment, terms--conditional release.
558.011. 1. The authorized terms of imprisonment, including both prison and conditional release terms, are:
(1) For a class A felony, a term of years not less than ten years and not to exceed thirty years, or life imprisonment;

So...if convicted - up to life. But, it could be anything else too. It's kind of a crap shoot.

Hugs and prayers for you WM.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
GM, hon, I did not say you were wrong. WE all have ideas of what we would do. I said I don't agree with you. And, heck, lots of times people have said they don't agree with me. And I don't agree with you, but I have been down this road much longer than you and I felt much like you at one time. You may never feel like me and I may never feel like you and that's ok. For your info, Sig and I disagree a lot.I respect her with every warrior mom fiber in my being, but we often agree to disagree.

Read Donna's post. She has experience and in my opinion it says it all. She KNOWS. WMs son did not just get caught with a bag of pot. It is serious what he did. She can't change that. She can only go broke and destroy her daughter's family.

There is another child involved here, a very young child, and that has to be a huge factor in any decision WM makes. Many of us have given them our life savings to get them out of trouble only to have them rinse/repeat. We speak from our own experiences. But that doesn't make our opinions right or wrong, just different :) Peace!

Thank you for your nice reply. I really do appreciate that. I guess I should have discussed with you before, in a private message, before I got upset, about the fact that every time I comment, you are there almost instantly to disagree with me, which has led to a little bit (actually a lot) of anxiety when I post. There were a lot of times where I found myself actually not posting, because I was scared of you. I am just being honest. However, I think I should have discussed that with you in a private message before hand. I really do love and appreciate your advice on most anything and you know, honestly, we agree with each other on almost everything too and you know that I do because I go out of my way to let you know it. I always like your comments and I always find myself shaking my head yes when I read your comment. I'm sure you notice that you and I almost agree on everything, which is why I wish you would show me a little more leeway, if you will, if you see me commenting and you're not liking it. Just let me get the thought out and let the conversation play out between me and the OP, before you judge what I am saying. Please don't jump to conclusions right away. That's all I ask for in the future.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
That's fine. To make you less nervous, I just won't respond to your posts because, in all honesty, I may disagree with you.

However, there is a lot of disagreement here, and perhaps Sig should be apologized to. I love her to death, but in no way do we agree on much of anything...lol. She is intelligent enough to make up her own mind :) And Lil is also right. It does not help WM if we argue!!!
 
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