Question for Those Familiar with Borderline (BPD) and False Accusations...

[susiestar]

Personally I hate any therapist/psychiatrist/neuropsychologist/doctor who says that a mental health disorder can only be caused by one thing. Other than some organic disorders, I think we don't have more than a clue about the true causes of most disorders. I will believe we have conclusive proof that Borderline (BPD) is cause only by childhood abuse and adhd is caused by parents who drink and autism is caused by refrigerator moms if and when we can cure the common cold. I think conclusive proof in any of these cases, incl the cold, is about as likely to happen. We just don't have a clue.

in my opinion this doctor hasn't got a clue and will be led a merry dance by your daughter.

What happens if you don't take difficult child to mental health for therapy? Is therapy actually going to help her or just annoy you by giving her more ways to bring drama and stress into YOUR life? I sincerely doubt that anyone can charge you with neglect after all the years you tried and tried to get help for her. If they do, and they threaten to remove her, let them!! I am sure just the OFFER of letting them have her would back them down, esp if they have anyone with a clue hwo has spoken with her.

You are a great mom, but you cannot fix what difficult child doesn't see as a problem.

 

[buddy]

When I was in therapy and had my eating disorder it was suggested to me too that not only the abuse from a neighbor child was a problem but that my dad did something. He never did. I got so confused and wondered if I forgot etc....it was an awful time. I have apologized to him many times because they seemed to KNOW.

My awful experience from that (I am not Borderline (BPD) so did not jump on it and want him to suffer or anything it went no where of course) makes me say run like heck.

It is interesting, I just happened to be talking last night to a friend who comes to all our family meals for holidays because she and her daughter have no one. She has Borderline (BPD). she did dbt too. She said it was the best thing ever. I wish you could find someone who does it who takes medicaid.

Sounds dangerous to me. I agree that deciding that before anyone has ever met her is dangerous especially with her probably jumping on that bandwagon. Gosh, I wish you guys could take a lie detector test in advance in private to proactively show the chick there is no way....so not fair that I would even wish that for you. I would not really say to do it, just a fantasy.

 

[SearchingForRainbows]

in my humble opinion, a therapist with this kind of rigid thinking is dangerous and can do more harm then good. There are many factors, some unknown, which can cause a person to develop a mental disorder. A therapist who thinks she knows it all is ignorant. If this woman is the only therapist available, I would stop therapy. The situation, as bad as it is, could potentially become much worse. You've done everything you can to help your daughter and that should not include being forced to have her see an incompetent provider. Just my two cents...

Thinking of you... Hugs... SFR

 

[JJJ]

Do you have an emergency plan for your son? Someone he can stay with instead of going into foster care, just in case difficult child snows someone with power?

 

[DaisyFace]

I've been thinking about all the responses all day...

husband and I really REALLY want to just cancel the appointment with the new therapist and just forget the whole thing - the County MH center, the State people, ALL of it...

But what happens if we do that?

Is there a "worst case scenario" that I am not thinking of? What is the worst that could happen?

 

[buddy]

I would wonder the same DF, I guess no way to know for sure but maybe the question is what worse can happen? At least there wont be a paper trail of some therapist lending credance to the allegations. If she does make the claims, either way something would be investigated right. so is it better to say we simply decided this is not a good fit for our family in a letter to them (so it is in writing) or to give it a last try when you know she doesn't respond anyway and may even be guided into horrific ideas?

I certainly dont know all the ins and outs so I am sure someone here can say if there is a big risk, but I do understand where you are coming from..... I would be wondering too... HOW LONG did you say till 18???? maybe just have a bunch of scheduling issues till then????

 

[keista]

I've been thinking about all the responses all day...

husband and I really REALLY want to just cancel the appointment with the new therapist and just forget the whole thing - the County MH center, the State people, ALL of it...

But what happens if we do that?

Is there a "worst case scenario" that I am not thinking of? What is the worst that could happen?

Possible charges of medical neglect????? If she gets in legal trouble you won't have evidence of her current mental instability to use as defense. Just thinking out loud tossing out ideas to consider. No clue if they ever would apply.

 

[DammitJanet]

Daisy I havent read through the other posts because I am tired and not very comfortable where I am sitting but I wanted to reply to you so if I repeat anything anyone has already said, please forgive me.

The abuse or whatever doesnt have to happen at home. What borderline tends to come from is more from an invalidating experience when the child is very young. It doesnt have to be even something the parent are aware of or that the child is aware of. It can just mean that the child and some caregiver didnt mesh very well. Yes that could be the parents but it could also be the day care center, the school, the group at the library where she had reading, Sunday School, the local playground group...all sorts of things. It can also mean that she simply didnt fit well in her skin with how you parented her when she was a little baby and toddler. You could have handled her exactly the way everyone told you to and she could have reacted predictably but still felt a bit off kilter. That does not mean its your fault. You didnt do this to her. Now there are parents out there that are breeding grounds for borderline. My mother was one of them.

 

[buddy]

That is interesting Janet. And I sure wish you hadn't grown up with that experience. I think from Daisy's post though ... SHE knows that, she is concerned because THIS counselor seems to think it is due to ONE and only ONE thing. And that implicates maybe in particular, husband which her difficult child would readily jump on and the two of them would reinforce each other in that story. Am I understanding that right DF? Or am I wrong?? That is how I replied to you, and why I think she sounds too risky.

 

[DaisyFace]

That is interesting Janet. And I sure wish you hadn't grown up with that experience. I think from Daisy's post though ... SHE knows that, she is concerned because THIS counselor seems to think it is due to ONE and only ONE thing. And that implicates maybe in particular, husband which her difficult child would readily jump on and the two of them would reinforce each other in that story. Am I understanding that right DF? Or am I wrong?? That is how I replied to you, and why I think she sounds too risky.

Yes, Buddy - you have it right. The therapist assumes sexual abuse when difficult child was still in diapers. That leaves only relatives (and husband in particular) who could be likely abusers.

I really like your idea of sending a letter cancelling the appointment and therefore documenting in writing the reason for leaving therapy...

I think I will work on that today.

 

[TerryJ2]

Ugh. I cannot believe there are still morons who believe in this stuff. How did they get their degrees?
So sorry, DF. You seem to keep getting the worst of the bunch.

 

[buddy]

Yes, Buddy - you have it right

But I sure wish I misunderstood. It is really horrible to think these people who are in such position of what ultimately is power, are so limited in their thinking and ability.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Df, nothing to add, you've received great advice, just wanted to send a HUG to you today, for being on the case and being such a good Mom. You're doing a great job of getting all the facts down and protecting your family. When you finish working on that letter, go do something sweet and kind for yourself, you deserve it..........

 

[TerryJ2]

Good idea to put it in writing. Very good idea.

 

[susiestar]

There is a reason this therapist is working for medicaid, and it is not a desire to help. She probably cannot get paying clients because this went out in the 90s at the latest, after all that recovered memory koi. All those parents and daycare workers and teachers who forever lost their reputations because they were accused based on memories planted by tdocs like this one.

send a letter saying that ths therapist has clearly made up her mind before even meeting yoru daughter and you do not feel thsi is a good fit or helping your daughter, so you will not be continuing therapy. A good fit between therapist and client and family is important and this clearly is not it.

I know we have stopped seeing medicaid paid tdocs many times and never given them a reason, even after going to county MH, and we never even thought about them complaining. i am sure that they have more than enough people clamoring for services that htey haven't time to bother with you. if someone files some complaint, you have YeARS of records of things that you have tried, and a child who is more than old enough to refuse to go or be too busy/otherwise interested to be forced to go. You are "taking a break" after years of work to let her use the tools she has learned. If they investigate, point out the way THEY have failed and accuse THEM of medical neglect - if anyone deserves the accusations it is your state and county MH system.

Unless therapy is court ordered, there is NO ONE who can force you to take your child to therapy. No matter what. if nothing else, say that yoru religious beliefs dictate other therapy at this time and leave it there and let them prove otherwise.

 

[Ettina]

OK, quite possibly going to be really unpopular for saying this, but this whole thread sent up red flags for me. What if your daughter really was abused? Abusers don't come with neon signs on their foreheads. I know of people who were married to child sexual abuse perpetrators and didn't know it.

The vast majority of people with Borderline (BPD) were abused (around 70-90%). This is an established fact. Not all Borderline (BPD) individuals were abused, but the vast majority were. And yes, there is a genetic component, but it's typically more on the level of determining what kind of problems the kid will get if abused. They haven't just determined this by asking Borderline (BPD) individuals - for example, I've found a prospective study following up on a bunch of kids with well-documented abuse that found much higher rates of Borderline (BPD) in those kids. And that's not in the 'bad old days' of recovered memory therapy (which was bunk). This study was 2009.

And it is possible to have been abused and not remember it. Research shows that while recovered memory therapy typically results in false memories, people who recover memories all by themselves are about as likely to be able to find external corroboration as those who never forgot the abuse. And therapists planting memories only happens if they use hypnosis, or if they push the issue really hard - just asking about abuse is not going to create false memories, and is in fact good psychiatric practice.

On the balance of things, with the OP's case, I'll have to come out as pretty unsure. And it makes me really uneasy the way the rest of you automatically assumed that she was right about her daughter not having been abused.

 

[keista]

Ettina, your point is quite valid, but there would be other signs of abuse, there always are. There is always a slight possibility that there was unknown abuse, HOWEVER the real problem was that the therapist in question insisted there must have been abuse before even meeting the child. That kind of therapist is a danger pure and simple. That is the kind of therapist that plants the memories due to their insistence.

 

[DammitJanet]

Im sort of with ettina. So many of people with Borderline do have some form of abuse even if it isnt sexual abuse. It doesnt have to be a parent though. Was she ever in the hospital when young? Did she ever go visit anyone at all? It does not have to be as an infant. It can be under age 5. That is when the core of human development is made. Of course, with those statistics that does leave 10 to 30 percent of people who have borderline for other reasons. They are more along the lines of what I was talking about.


I do think it is highly unprofessional for anyone to attempt to diagnose anyone without seeing a person first or to say why someone has a diagnosis. You do have to meet with a person and talk with them first.

 

[AnnieO]

The other issue here is... DF's difficult child has a well-documented history of BS... Which makes that therapist even MORE dangerous.

 

[exhausted]

Have not read any replies-forgive repeats.
As you know I have a daughter with Borderline (BPD). She was repeatedly molested by an older cousin and gang raped (the rape is what triggered the PTSD and Borderline (BPD)). We had no idea about either (and were shocked as we thought we had kept her safe)and only learned after placing her in Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because her behaviors were so dangerous. Yes, with most Borderline (BPD) suffers, abuse is part of the deal, esp. sexual. With others, this is not true at all. There is a predisposition that has to be there for it to occur at all. There tends to be an emotional oversensitivity with these kids. So.. false accusations come in 2 forms (at least from my reading) 1. From their oversensitivity, they misread things as abusive 2.They will lashout at their target, and be totally earnest that their perception is right. One book says that dad can often be the victom. In our home it is me.(Probably because I am the tough one).

I would not doubt for a second that she percieved herself as date raped and may have been truelly date raped. Holy cow, I remember everyone of my friends and myself fighting off boys at times. This can be very traumatic and even more so if it occurs in an individual at risk for Borderline (BPD). Who knows, some of these may have been really aweful and traumatic. By the way, we never thought anyone had the chance to hurt our daughter and we were really protective parents-so much for that. It is amazing who can get at our kids and where.The rape happened at school!

As for the idea that she was molested as a baby-if you know it was not possible, I would calmly state that and also look up some of the latest stuff to share about Borderline (BPD). And don't assume this implicated dad-it sounds as if you know better. I recommend a book called Bordeline Personality Disorder in Adolescents. Our stories are in this book (made me feel not alone)and it is helpful to share with those who are so poorly trained on the subject and new research. Read it and carry the info to the professional. As for the new person-let them know up front your concerns and worries and let them know that you are informed about Borderline (BPD)-the latest stuff. Also that you do not believe in some of the persistant old myths about Borderline (BPD) (no treatment, always triggered by abuse, that they are manipulative on purpose etc.) Good luck DF, this is a long road to travel.