Stealing from us again!

AppleCori

Well-Known Member
Hang in there. That place sounds like the best place for your difficult child, which is why he doesn't want to be there.

Change is hard. Hard for everyone, but especially difficult children. They seem to want to go through life doing only the fun stuff and leaving the hard stuff for the rest of us.

But we can't do the work of fixing their lives for them. It does that work that way. They have to do it for themselves. If they refuse, we can only refuse to enable them in not changing.
 

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
That is so common with difficult child's, the mind set that the world owes them something.
Over the years my difficult child has made comments like "but you and dad have the money and it's not fair that you won't give me money when I need it, if you loved me you'd give it to me" difficult child's are really good at using our love for them as a weapon against us.

I'm glad you are sticking to your decision.

Hang in there!! You will get through this.
 

2much2recover

Well-Known Member
I just got a call from him telling me there was no way he was staying there again much less trying to go their program and be a prisoner there. I don't know what else to do.
Overstressed
If you don't take him back - he can get to rehab through other placements. If you were to take him back, chances are he isn't going to go once you force the issue.

Maybe I should have pressed charges this time.
Maybe you still should and still can. I would do whatever it takes to get him to understand that he is out of your home and not coming back. Right now I think that is the number one message you need to send him.
He needs far more help than your family can give him.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Hang in there. That place sounds like the best place for your difficult child, which is why he doesn't want to be there.

He needs far more help than your family can give him.


I agree 100% with both of these statements. My son will never be living in our house again, not only because of the stress it causes us but because we simply don't have the tools or savvy or emotional distance to give him the help he needs.
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Our kids have to hit a bottom, and it seems, many bottoms, before they have any motivation to change.

After five years of the type of situations you are describing with your son---plus multiple jail stints and homelessness stints---my son appears to be making some changes in his life.

I am very (very) cautiously optimistic and I am still giving him a lot of space and physical distance. I still don't trust it at all yet, and it's been six months.

He taught me well.

It sounds like you are at a point where you are beginning to think of yourself and your own family and putting them first, instead of your son. I had to get there, too, before I was willing to start making some real changes and start working on myself.

Read, read, read about codependency, stopping enabling, living in the moment, taking care of yourself. Go to Al-Anon meetings, read 12-step recovery material, contact NAMI, spend time doing small nice things for yourself and your family. Turn the bright light of focus on you, and away from him.

He will do whatever he will do. You can't control any of it.

Let go. Learn how to let go. It will be the best thing you ever learned in your whole life---for this relationship with your son, and for all of your relationships in your life.

Warm hugs and compassion. We get it. We care.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Funnily, once she stopped using drugs, her moodswings and raging also stopped and it has been over ten
years...she obviously is not bipolar or in any way mentally ill.

The diagnosis of mental illness in a troubled child weakens our resolve to take what we know are the right actions.

It is one more layer of vulnerability.

That we love them becomes a minefield for us, as our difficult children learn just which buttons and behaviors will get them what they want. The living horror of a child on the streets while we are safe and warm under our own roofs cannot be described.

You have to live it, to know the taste of that one.

What is happening to us, and to our kids, is one of the worst things that could happen to anyone. There is nothing pleasant about it, and there is no way to know whether our responses are going to help or create further harm. We do the best we know. We are betrayed again and again and our hearts are broken and all we can do is put them out and hope it works.

I am sorry this is happening. I am glad you are here. It will help you to hear our stories and to share your own. One of the most striking things I have seen, here on the site, is how similar the behavior of drug-using difficult child kids is. More than anything, these similarities in children raised in so many different ways has helped me understand that my child's problems are not the result of something I did, or did not do, as a parent.

Guilt is a vulnerability we cannot afford.

Yet, the hardest part about taking the actions we ultimately have to take with our kids is guilt. We have never imagined that putting a child on the streets could be our story and yet, we wake up one day and it is and we know in one part of our hearts that it is the right action but the other part of us is condemning what we have done.

It is a hard thing, to wrap our heads around how to live this story that somehow turned out to be ours.

As you read along with us here, you will find that it does seem to be true that telling the truth to our kids about where they are and where they are going and a tough love approach to their endless messes seems to help them. But things often get worse before they get better, and it is best to be prepared for that, too.

Love blinds us to the truth about our difficult child kids.

I am blind as a bat when it comes to mine.

The parents here, all of us at different levels of healing, can help us stay stable in our responses and support us through the self-condemnation parts, and that's priceless.

Soon enough, we find we can stand up again, that we are strong enough now to help someone else.

***

It is a good, good thing to attend something like Al-Anon, or to explore what NAMI offers in your area. Recovering Enabler posted about the information on detachment pinned to the top of the Parent Emeritus page. That is a good and helpful place to begin, too. There are YouTube videos about how to talk to our troubled adult kids, and about how to survive being the parent of one. Anything we can learn that can help us understand we are not the only people this is happening to will help us be stronger.

And as you know, we have to be very, very strong to do what has to be done.

Our worst enemies, when we have difficult child children, are the love we feel for our children even now, when they steal and lie to us, and the knife-edge senses of loss and guilt and wreckage and ugliness.

Here are two things so helpful to me. One is a quote from Headlights Mom, one of the moms here on the site. The other is something I heard President Obama quote at the State of the Union Address. Both things have helped me steer my course with a little more clarity.

And I will take all the help I can get, because parenting a difficult child child really sucks.

No, really.

For a long, long time.

Well anyway, here are the quotes, Headlight Mom's first:

"Lest I grow cold about him or let his ugly behaviors devour me. Sometimes, it's the only gratitude I have for him. So........I'll take it."

That was Headlight Mom.

Here is the President, quoting from the letter a young mom had written him:

"We are a strong, tight-knit family that's made it through some very hard times."

That helped me, because I never know how to think about what happened to my family. I am so keenly aware of the wreckage and ugliness. This quote was a strengthening, healthy interpretation that is equally and maybe even more true than the harshness of those judgments I was making about my family.

Please know that I wish you and your family well and happy again, soon.

But that is the way the world works, and the way families work.

Yes. It is hard to remember the validity of this very true thing when our children suffer and we can't stand the pain of it.

I just got a call from him telling me there was no way he was staying there again much less trying to go their program and be a prisoner there. I don't know what else to do.

There is nothing you can do.

Stay very strong. Repeat what you said verbatim if that will help you.

I write down what I am going to say. I know that if I do not, guilt and shock and hurt and just the unbelievable horror of the things that happen will do me in, every time.

There is nothing easy about any of this.

He says he still wants to go to rehab.

Of course he does. You have already offered.

The rest is up to him.

What do you need to see this time before you will help?

That is the most important question there is, because it gives us a place to stand, and helps us stay focused.

What do you need to see from your child before you will help?

He may get worse before he gets better if he gets better.

Good for you, for knowing that.

It is a harsh truth.

Again, wishing you and your family well. You are here with us now, and that is so much better than being alone with it.

Cedar
 

overstressed

New Member
I've been kind of overwhelmed the last week or so. Last Sunday was my sons birthday so we allowed to come to our house with the pla of taking him to lunch. Well that didn't work. When he arrived he was already in a bad mood. Then he threw a fit because I wouldn't let him have a gun out of my safe to go "hunting" needless to say the was a huge argument and I ruined his birthday. I didn't hear from him again until Tuesday asking if I would bring the rest of birthday presents from other family members. I did and was extremely high, I talked to him for a few minutes and left. The next time I hear from him was Thursday about 10:00 am demanding I get off work and take him to rehab. You cod tell
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Wow, he is quite demanding isn't he? YOU didn't ruin his birthday, HE did. Seems like when you say no, he acts out. Often the case around here with our troubled kids. Stay the course, you're doing the right thing, and it's hard on us. I hope you're getting support for yourself, this stuff is hard.
 

overstressed

New Member
Sorry last post got cut short. Here is the rest.
I told him I would take him after work which I did and he refuses to go in so I dropped him back off where he was staying. He called before I got home because he left his phone in my truck so I take it back and he gets into my truck and refuses to get out. Then he starts talking about suicide so I tell him I'm taking him to the hospital. When we're almost there he flips out screaming and cussing me. He then kick my windshield and bust it the punches me in eye. I pulled over and attempted to get him out but he refused so I go on to the hospital. I walk in and ask for security and he takes off on foot. The police were called and he was arrested about 20 minutes later. I spend the night in the er getting my eye sewn up. The next day I went to his bond hearing, he was released with a no contact order for me and the rest of my family. If he goes to court he will spend some time in jail. If not he will get even more time. Maybe we will get a little peace now. I know that sounds cold but I can't take anymore of this from him.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Maybe we will get a little peace now. I know that sounds cold but I can't take anymore of this from him.

That doesn't sound cold, it sounds realistic and Overstressed, if you've read any of our stories, then you know, MANY of us have that same exact reaction when for whatever reason we are freed from their clutches. It is often said around here that when they are in jail, we are in peace.

That is quite the story, I am so sorry. You've been through the mill with your son. You absolutely need some peace. He created this insane scenario for himself and now you have the order in place and his impending jail time. Good. You'll get some needed rest from the drama and chaos. Take it, get your life back, it'll be a good time for you to access the damage done to you and your family and make a plan of action to set strong boundaries and keep yourself safe.

Hang in there and get some much needed rest. We're here if/when you need us or you just want to vent. Get some support. Stay the course. You did the best you could under extraordinary circumstances, now let it go.
 

2much2recover

Well-Known Member
From the sound of the last incident it seems he is on some sort of drug that makes him violent. There is now ay that you, or your family should be around him we he is clearly quite unstable. At this point having a No Contact order is the best thing that could happen for your family. Please do no be the one to violate it - call the police if he does try to contact you. It is in your whole families best interest to let the proper authorities handle him from here on out. You have done your best to help him but clearly he no longer is able to respect any boundaries, now having physically abused you. His behavior is scary.
If you really want help for your son appear at his sentencing and tell the Judge what you have been going through with him. (most people are so afraid of the judge that they are scared to talk to him/her but it has they are just humans trying to do the right thing and they NEED input to do the right thing) Ask for a mental evaluation and treatment and to keep the no contact order in place. YOU HAVE done everything you can do. Do not feel guilty!
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
I know that sounds cold but I can't take anymore of this from him.

I agree with 2M2R, he needs a mental evaluation, badly, and I think that you going to court and telling the judge all of this would be helpful. Don't leave anything out. I'm actually surprised they let him go without one.

Hang in there.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I drew the line at violence with my difficult child. Once he threatened me and backed me into a corner and came very close to slamming a fist from my head and wouldn't let me go all because I told him his friend had to go home I knew he would never live with me again. I don't care if there is mental illness. He has some. So do I. So what? Mental illness does not normally make one a violent person and, if it does, why is the difficult child off medication, drinking (my son's case), not going to therapy, refusing help? THAT is their responsibility if they want to live in the civilized world. I believe that most of our mentally ill kids actually have personality disorders, such as borderline, narcissistic and antisocial (all three can result in having no conscience and a me-centric attitude) They rarely want help. But they are not legally insane and know right from wrong, but choose not to conform. Rules don't apply to them. Growing up to independence doesn't apply to them unless forced by us, which is why I'm so into "tough love." Probably 90% of our difficult children have gotten a bipolar diagnosis. Well, guess what? As a psychiatric patient from age 23 until now, psychiatrists can be wrong...psychiatrist is a "guess" science. I have so many diagnoses I can't remember them all, all given by psychiatrists. The bottom line is, it is MY responsibility to take care of my illness. In a way, I'm lucky. My parents wouldn't help me so I had to get well or there was nobody, so I learned to take care of myself at a young age. And I wasn't violent and didn't break the law, but I still had mood struggles. So what? It's hard, but you don't have to abuse drugs, steal, yell, deface property or hurt your loved ones. You have enough control not to do that. Most of the mentally ill can also say "no" to drugs and get a job. It makes you feel better when you are sober and productive.

Those who are not mentally ill themselves do not understand it. Unless you are psychotic, in which you truly do not know reality from fantasy, and you may think your parent is trying to kill you, you can control ow you behave. Bipolar/depression doesn't make you steal, slap, act two years old, be a jerk, etc. I was in a psychiatric hospital three times...once for ten weeks when they allowed you to stay until you got better (in the good old days). There were a few fights between patients, but since most of the patients lived in poverty and were in rough neighborhoods, it was cultural more than "I couldn't help it." It was rare and the aggressor was THROWN OUT. This was a really good University hospital, but there were rules for the mentally ill and one was NO VIOLENCE. Don't fall for that con.

Personality disorders? Well, plenty of people who have them will do anything to get their way. It's what they do. They con you nicely and when it doesn't work they scare you into doing what they want. Suicide threats a nd difficult children go together. Always take them seriously, however it is not a stretch to say, I don't think, that they can be the ultimate manipulation. Often when nothing else works acting like a crazed animal while saying, "I'm going to kill myself" works. It did for me for a long time. I would calm myself and say,"OK, ok, ok. Let's talk about it. Don't hurt yourself." Nonsense on my part. He never meant it, but he knew it worked.

Personality disordered people are GREAT at fooling psychiatrists (they tend to be bright and learn how to "read" people to know what to say) and they can actually learn more about manipulation in therapy. Not saying your son has it, but...just be careful. Your son knows right from wrong. He isn't seeing pink elephants in the room and doesn't think Napoleon is sitting beside him. He is not psychotic.

Do not feel guilty about protecting yourself and others. Hugs for your hurting mom heart. Those of us who had the sad, heartwrenching experience of needing to protect ourselves against our own children are here to hold you up if you fall. We are here 24/7. You are not alone.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Legally (Lil, I"M so sorry, not trying to be a lawyer here...lol)...nobody but the court can force somebody into treatment once they are adults. And I don't even know if they can force it then. I do know that by a ridiculously absurd early age, like fourteen, even minor children can refuse to take psychiatric medication.
Maybe the judge can help, but that assumes he cares. Most people locked up in prison have some sort of mental illness or personality disorder. At least I heard that on "Lock Up." Perhaps it's not accurate, but it was interesting that they talked to a prison psychiatrist who said that they are the new mental institutions since a certain group of people decided that the mentally ill, including those who ARE psychotic, have "rights."
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
You're right MWM, but a lot of places let the cops do a 72 hour hold when there's a danger to themselves or others. I'm surprised that didn't happen given the assault and suicide threat. Of course, every state is different.

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