Update and More Advice Please

[Copabanana]

I forgot to make the point I wanted to make initially in my preceding post.

Albatross. Your son (our own) are AMBIVALENT, too. Witness his own progression, this week. But first: he wants to be a man. He wants to be self-determining. He wants to have autonomy. He wants to no longer be Mama's baby. But he is conflicted. It is not that he is afraid to leave you. It is that part of him wants to stay. Close to you. In your ambiance and orbit. Last week my son said to me: I don't feel alone when I am at home. Even if we don't talk.

But they want to be men, too. They are AMBIVALENT. Do you see, Albatross, that the manner in which you handled the interactions, with prayer rather than with control or taking charge, or some kind of saving, enabled your son to act as a man, and to choose to be empowered. You did that, Albatross. And instead of enabling him to renounce adult responsibilities, you did the opposite. (While the quote below is pure Albatross, the inserted underlines, and words within parens are my own.)

Saturday --
Difficult Child: Mom, I'm leaving the weed farm. I need to make some money so I can pay my share of the ticket.

Me: Do you have a place to stay? (Prayer)
Difficult Child: Yes, my leg doesn't even hurt anymore and I got a spot at the winter shelter.

Monday--
Difficult Child: Mom, my leg hurts too much to work. Can you get the ticket and I'll pay you back?
Me: No, we can only pay half. Maybe see the doctor? (Prayer)

Tuesday--
Difficult Child: Mom, I'm just going to work on my hurt leg, but day labor has no work. Can you get the ticket and I'll pay you back?
Me: No, we can only pay half. Maybe get there earlier tomorrow? (Prayer.)

Later Tuesday--
Difficult Child: Mom, it is -3 degrees with the wind chill and that is nothing to mess with. Can you get the ticket and I'll pay you back?
Me: No, we can only pay half. Did you get the list of places that provide coats I sent you last week? You have the hat and gloves I sent, right? (Prayer.)

Wednesday--
Difficult Child: Mom, if I don't get the ticket today the price is going to go up $50 or more. Can you get the ticket and I'll pay you back?
Me: No, we can only pay half. I just looked and you can still leave on XX/XX and get the same deal. (Prayer.)

Later Wednesday--
Difficult Child: Mom, I will be living in a sober living house when I get there and he can only hold my spot until XX/XX. Can you get the ticket and I'll pay you back?
Me: No, we can only pay half. Maybe see if he can work something out for you? (Prayer.)

Later still Wednesday:
Difficult Child: Mom, I went to the doctor and got bad news on my blood work but I don't want to talk about it. I'm sorry I asked you for help. I'm just going to go live in the woods.
Me: Send me a copy of your labs? Why are you going to live in the woods instead of the winter shelter? (Prayer. Beseeching G-d now, but still desperate prayer, I think I would call it.)

Thursday:
Difficult Child: Mom, got a great job at day labor.
Me: Great to hear! (Hallelujah. Thank you, Lord. My words here.)

Friday:
Difficult Child: Mom, it's so beautiful here. I think I am going to stick it out.
Me: OK, good luck!(Prayer.)

I hope I have not offended. I am only learning how to view my own life and myself in spiritual terms. It is giving me great relief to no longer feel as if I am responsible for everything, everywhere, and conversely that everything is my fault, my failure. I am gaining more hope and self-control with my son, as I learn to surrender and not to fight.

This is not about any religion, in my case. It is about learning a different way to be and to see myself in relation to life.

 

[Albatross]

Copa, you have not offended. What a nice post. I have never thought about it that way, but there is a spiritual component to all of our dealings with our children, isn't there? That is something to ponder. Even the ambivalence on both sides is spiritual, the recognition that the love will be there, even when the relationship goes into uncharted territory. Thank you for that.

Wow, no one has ever compared me with a Russian gymnast before!! I'm feeling gladiatorial!

Dos Vedanya,
Olga

 

[Echolette]

Albatross, your ability to hold firm with kindness and love through this onslaught is inspiring. I don't think you were cold at all. You expressed support each time, you didn't lose your mind and start in with 'what are you thinking I told you so blah blah blah' and you empowered him to work it out. You were awesome!!
Part of the illness our kids suffer is their impetuousness and inability to tolerate mental or emotional discomfort. He thrashed around and tried to avoid it, and tried to make you the solution..but you held firm and let him have his process. And he came through. And maybe, just maybe, at some future date he'll have some memory of that time he reacted so fast and tried to run away. It it turned out no such drastic action was required and it was ok to stay put.
They don't realize that wherever they go they take themselves along.
Maybe this was a step towards his realizing that. Not an actual fulfillment, but a step. And you, with your warrior mom love and firmness, helped him get there.
You could have ignored his texts.
You could have pointed out in all kinds of mean, true, legit ways that this is all his fault and he is a dumbass.
You could have bailed him out.
But you didn't do any of those things.
You did the perfect thing. You parented your D.C. through a tough time without enabling or becoming enmeshed.
Woot woot, drinks all around for our Alb!

And seriously, sit back and own that. You did great. Be proud.

Echo.

 

[Copabanana]

Even the ambivalence on both sides is spiritual, the recognition that the love will be there, even when the relationship goes into uncharted territory.

I have been thinking about this, this morning, especially since M told my son to leave, even the other house where he has been staying rent free. (I am posting a new thread about this right now.)

I am thinking, though, about the spirituality involved from our son's perspective. I really, really do not know what to think about this. I can think about the spiritual director I am speaking to, asked me:

If I can think of a way to not fight. To not fight my son, to not fight life.

With M, I had been moderately successful with this. I had learned to cede to him in order to avoid corrosive fighting that was damaging to each of us.

But recently with M, I was growing tired of ceding. I felt he was invalidating me, needing to dominate, to win. And I felt giving him to him I was losing my voice. That I was allowing myself to become a weaker person.

So, I began to try to quietly tell him when I felt that way. (Unsuccessfully. Because he experienced this was a way to either martyr myself or to dominate him!)

Well, what to do? I did buy a book, called I think "You can't talk to me that way" by a linguist, now deceased, Suzette Elgin, an 8 step approach to sticking up for yourself in a non-confrontational way. To have voice, but avoid conflict.

There has got to be a way to have presence and voice without it being adversarial.

Now, the only thing I can think of is that I take personally M's nonsense. That somehow when he begins to speak from a know it all way--against what I say--that I somehow give him credence and undermine myself, and speak up from the need to disprove a negative.

Big mistake. I saw last night that to engage in this with M is pure idiocy. He began to tell me basically how stupid was my idea about ceiling fans, and how wrong I was about some other thing--and by the end of the conversation, he was spouting my exact point of view, insisting that was what he had said!

So there has got to be something about my delivery that I have to begin taking responsibility. Or my owning of others' issues, attitudes (negative)--and needing to defend.

In each of these ways, I am exhibiting boundary issues, and I am also exhibiting control issues--because I am not responsible for M's dominance or M's attitude, or his ideas or anything else related to him. Only what happens inside of me, that I act from.

And I am wondering if this is the issue with my son, too. He too tries to hold me responsible for everything. While he does just what he wants to do.

I am not a g-d. Nobody is. I cannot take responsibility for one thing any other adult person does or does not do.

The same is true for my son. He cannot assume tolerance from anybody. He cannot accept refuge from anybody he disrespects. To take from others, who offer with good will, and to mock them by subterfuge and deceit is to do wrong. There are spiritual consequences to this. By trying to absolve him from those consequences by continuing to take them away, is to play g-d.

Oh, why or why does this have to be so hard? Can somebody please tell me?

 

[Weary Mother]

Copa, I really needed to hear this post this morning. To reconcile the desires we have for our adult children with the rights they have as an adult to make decisions and face consequences can be so difficult to reconcile that it becomes confusing. How to keep hands off when imminent danger is apparent is hard. I got a phone call from my daughter last night, she has checked into the mental ward of a st. Louis hospital. A history of depression and suicide attempts are her problems as well as drug use and other addictive behaviors. I hope she does not lose her job and apartment that she has had only since July. And her Van is broken and the repair bill is $150.00. Aside from that, my 83 year old mother is having severe issues, I have a son in prison and needless to say, I could not sleep last night due to anxiety. Does this ever end?

 

[BusynMember]

Jodi, it can, if you really want it to and are willing to work hard on yourself, as hard as we try to work on them with no results. It's not easy. They are our beloved. But asking them to change, when how they are is all they know, is also hard, even if it sounds pretty easy

If we want and expect t them to change, should we not do the same? Are our old ways working anyhow? For us or for them?

This is just my own experiences. I can sort of explain how I changed organically, from the inside out.

We adopted a six year old from an orphanage and loved him as much as all my kids, but he did not feel connected to us in a strong way. So he left and grieving the loss was like a death. With extreme and sound professional help I grieved, going through all stages, and, yes, got over it. He is still alive, of course, but has not been around for over ten years and although I will always hold him I. My heart, I don't think about him often and when I do it doesn't hurt.

I also have a difficult son and have also worked long and hard on dealing with him and all toxic people and also in reaching my higher self to see the world differently. I have become very patient and positive and love this life and my new attitude has had a positive affect on everyone in my orbit, especially myself but also my son.

We do all have the ability to see everything differently, to accept what is, and to find more helpful ways to handle life. I also find U no longer fret over others so much because I see everything from a higher more universal standpoint. I no longer think "why does this happen to me?" I think "the hard things are for learning. How can I learn?" I feel like life is a lesson for everyone.

I don't expect my own ways to resonate with you. I'm just trying to explain that we all have the ability to make our lives different and better no matter how old we are. Often a professional outsider gives fabulous insight and feedback that we can't see because we are too involved.

As we hope our adult children learn to think differently, since we are the mature adult we can show them that it is possible and that we are doing what we hope they will do. It can only help...and it's changing how we relate to them.

I know we can help ourselves because I did it and I'm not different or special. We can all alter our perspective to a healthy one

Jodi, just as the fate of your kids are in their hands, your fate and future is in your hands unless you give up on yourself. If you don't try. But if you give up, how do you expect your kids to not give up?

I hope you explore how to overcome your anxiety to the extent that you can and find YOUR answer to dealing with hard knocks. We are our own best teachers...sometime with the wisdom of others.

I hope you can do this, Jodi, because YES it can get better. It's up to us, not our kids. Nobody can make us peaceful or happy except us.

Hugs to you.

 

[toughlovin]

Alvie I have been in your shoes. My spent several months homeless in Denver in the winter. That was the worst time for me. We took the stand and still do that we will help him when he is helping himself. Those things keep changing over time. When he was in Denver it all finally got to him so much he agreed to go to rehab. So we didn't send money but we did go online to get a bus ticket for him to get to a rehab a friend of mine knew.

So I would help him if he is taking a positive step to help himself.

 

[Albatross]

Well, that went well.

Difficult Child is in a detox unit after a 3-day meth binge.

He worked 1 day of day labor to try to save up some money toward his ticket, then decided he would stay in CO, he says because there was a girl he wanted to hook up with but she "made" him do meth, and that's when all of this started.

First he said he has never tried meth before and had a reaction, then later said he has done it before but it never hit him like this, so he had to go to detox.

He claims that there are drug dealers who are trying to kill him because he had an adverse reaction to their product and it's "bad for business" and he can't go back to the shelter because the dealers are there.

He wasn't making much sense about the dealers.

He was very clear that the only safe place he can go is Hawaii, where there is a sober living house to his liking.

The other thing that is waiting in Hawaii is ex-girlfriend, who has a meth problem, but he says she is in sober living and he can be too, and they can be sober together.

The last time they were together they were NOT sober together and he made several phone calls asking us to rescue him because she was so dangerous.

He says there are NO sober living houses in CO, nor are there rehabs or counselors or social workers or shelters he can go to, apparently.

And it wouldn't matter anyway, because CO is not "a good fit" for him, and he refuses to stay there.

Absent our paying his full airfare to Hawaii immediately, he will discharge himself from detox tomorrow and go live in the woods until he can save up enough money to get himself to Hawaii.

Even though there is a front moving in and the high will be 11 degrees, and he still claims he has no coat.

You could have pointed out in all kinds of mean, true, legit ways that this is all his fault and he is a dumbass.
You could have bailed him out.
But you didn't do any of those things.

Echo, I definitely did #1. Boy did I ever do #1.

At one point he had to ask the staff to turn the volume down on the phone because I was screaming so loudly.

I don't remember what all I said, but it wouldn't surprise me if the word dumbass came up several times.

Ultimately I calmed down a bit and told him, "Difficult Child, this is said with great love and I hope you listen carefully to what I am telling you.

"You do not have the foundation to get yourself to Hawaii. You do not have the foundation to get yourself through more than a day at a time. If you have any money in your pocket, you will spend it getting high.

"You need a real rehab, like a 28-day rehab. And you need to stop treating this like 3 hots and a cot. If you don't recognize you have a problem, we are afraid you are going to die.

"Dad and I will be the first ones there if you recognize you need help, but I just don't see that from you right now."

He said he knows he has a problem, but the only place he is willing to go to is Hawaii, with his ex-girlfriend, so they can get sober together.

I told him I didn't see that happening, and that we were not going to send him to Hawaii.

He told me that was fine, that he just wanted me to know he was ok, that he had to go, and that he would be discharging himself from detox tomorrow.

I told him that we loved him and he disconnected the call. That was it.

husband and I talked about it at great length afterward, and we both feel he is not ready. We both feel that acceding to his demand for airfare to Hawaii is not only unreasonable, but we are just trading one good chance of harm for another and not solving anything. So we are just letting this one fall where it may.

 

[so ready to live]

Albie. I have followed along. Your previous text conversation gave me a good example to follow. Your dumbass conversation was the real me. I do usually have this conversation in my head in order to not be hurt by the flying debris out of my son's mouth.
Many times we simply don't respond to texts. It seems at first that this is less painful, just to not get into it, but recently I've felt it would be more honest and healing for us and for him, if we could find a way to answer as you do. At least that would say we acknowledge him and his situation, reinforcing our concern and love. This is what is so hard right now...it is cold..he is homeless...again. Merry Christmas.

Your day to day texts show how it "turns on a dime". I so need to remember that and also that we really never know what is truth. I believe the pattern of lying my son has perfected comes so natural now that he also doesn't differentiate anymore. I so loved the guy under the drugs.

"You do not have the foundation to get yourself to Hawaii. You do not have the foundation to get yourself through more than a day at a time. If you have any money in your pocket, you will spend it getting high.

The truth.

"Dad and I will be the first ones there if you recognize you need help, but I just don't see that from you right now."

The truth.

He said he knows he has a problem, but the only place he is willing to go to is Hawaii, with his ex-girlfriend, so they can get sober together.

The Manipulation.

I told him that we loved him and he disconnected the call. That was it.

The raw truth.
WE LOVE THEM SO MUCH. All of us here. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I get it. Thank you today for making me feel a little less alone. Prayers.

 

[Lil]

We both feel that acceding to his demand for airfare to Hawaii is not only unreasonable, but we are just trading one good chance of harm for another and not solving anything. So we are just letting this one fall where it may.

Oh Albie, I'm just SO sorry. You have to know that you've done the right thing. And I know that it doesn't help one bit. So Ready is right...it turns on a dime. He could change his mind tomorrow. Either way...we are with you.

 

[RN0441]

Albie

Offering my support.

This is all so hard.

Yes especially at Christmas.

Hugs.

 

[mof]

Hugs Albie....May his choices and continued living on the edge not hinder your joy.

Holidays are hard..I don't know your faith, but there is always something to celebrate.

Find some joy...living is for just that.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Reading along too Albatross.......I'm so sorry......it's so hard......sending you hugs....

 

[toughlovin]

Albie You have done an amazing job being clear, firm and loving. He clearly isn't ready or serious about rehab if the only rehab he will consider is in Hawaii with his ex-girlfriend.

There are a lot of services for the homeless in CO, at least in Denver.

So stay strong and you can be willing to help when he is truly ready to help himself.

And yeah its just plain rough to be in this situation at any time but especially in winter over the holidays.

 

[Lil]

Mine just told me he will be outside for a month over Christmas. This is such an awful time of year for all of us I think.

 

[4now]

Last Christmas my oldest spent the winter in Colorado. There are a great deal of resources available if they are willing to seek them out. I was convinced last year that my D.C. Was dead when he stopped all contact for a couple of weeks and I tried contacting the shelters. Because of confidentiality laws they could tell me nothing. Eventually he was arrested and brought back here for an outstanding warrant. Now he is in treatment and a sober living house. I know he is still struggling, but I am starting to understand that this is his journey, not mine.

I guess my point is that there are resources available and most of our D.C.'s are able to find and use them with just a little effort on their part. While I spent most of my holidays last year worried sick about my son, he was fine and it never even occurred to him to contact me so I didn't worry. His reasoning was that he was fine, just depressed and didn't want to talk. He had no concern or worries about what I was going through.

I had to stop and realize that he is a grown man living his life the way he chooses and isn't thinking of me much at all. That is most likely normal for young adults and in fact probably much healthier than my obsession over his life and well being.

I am slowly learning to disconnect in a healthier way and let his life proceed as he chooses.

 

[RN0441]

4 now

I see by your signature you have two Difficult Child's? Which one are you referring to and how is the other doing also?

Prayers for you and all of us that have to come here to keep our sanity at bay!

 

[4now]

My oldest son who is bipolar and addicted. He is mid 30's and long grown but I have been over involved (enabling) trying to fix him far too long. Both sons have been doing this since teens and I am just now realizing that its never been in my control. I guess I'm a really slow learner

 

[RN0441]

4now

I don't think we are slow learners just very devoted parents trying too hard for the people we love.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

[Albatross]

4now

I don't think we are slow learners just very devoted parents trying too hard for the people we love.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

I agree, 4now.

I saw a quote this morning that seemed to hit on this point. I can't find it now, but the gist was something to the effect of protecting our energy, because our light and warmth can be used by moths and parasites.

Not that our difficult ones are moths and parasites, but sometimes they take from us with about as much regard for how we feel about it.

Thank you for your posts. Being with others in similar situations helps so much.