Update on PO mess!

Marguerite

Active Member
You got a letter back from someone who sounded not obstructive - telephone that person today. The letter has cleared the way and if they require further correspondence, email it (on the basis that you are running out of time to get rational answers and a clear path of action).

And call that reporter. When you go to collect difficult child on Friday, a tame journalist there with you, documenting events, will be very useful.

Marg
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
So, PO would have to file against me as being unfit but he has NO grounds to do so, I've made all required appts and contacts with him and I haven't abandoned my son. He's the one that messed up because he tried to claim he was placing difficult child in there but he can't because THEY won't let him. How can he bring charges against me for that?

Furthermore, since reentry funding doesn't cover this post-d program under these circumstances, I can't see how he can get the placement funded anyway.


Right.

I agree with-DDD, too.

Who would have thought you'd be a change-agent for Juvenile Justice? Go for it!
 

klmno

Active Member
I spoke with the super at the current faciltiy and she said either PO or I could pick difficult child up on Fri but she's worried that it will come back to bite difficult child in the rear if I pick him up and bring him home. Yeah, I'm worried too but PO has had months to get a court order requiring otherwise and it's not fair to difficult child to leave him incarcerated for weeks or mos longer while we are going thru this. I told her that I would still back up my thought that a short term placement for reunification would be in difficult child's best interest but another long term sanction is double jeopardy and would probably have an adverse effect on difficult child- it wouid have an adverse affect on me if I was a teen and had just spent 18 mos incarcerated.

And I told her that no parent in their right mind would sign over custody of their kid for an undetermined period of time after the kid has spent their time committed to Department of Juvenile Justice and a PO is telling you that the kid will be released "when they feel like it".

Anyway, no word from central state Department of Juvenile Justice office yet and the facility super says I'd be allowed to pick difficult child up Fri but she's worried because PO's order is still that difficult child is to be picked up for transport to GH only. I reminded her that po has had months to go before a judge to get an order and hasn't done so. And PO wouldn't know if I had a brothel or meth lab or sanctuary in my house because he's never been here. Yes, I said that because it's true- is it legal for PO? No. He's required. Did that matter? No.
 

buddy

New Member
What did she mean by she is worried? Do you think po will show up and cause a stink. will the supervisor put in writing that you have permission to take him?
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I would be there at 8 am to pick up difficult child so you can get to him before PO. Then I would take him home and start the process of enrolling him in school and what not so PO cant say you are not making an effort to do what is in his best effort immediately upon release.
 

klmno

Active Member
That's what I'm thinking...but it might be more like 9:00. I had already beeen in touch with the sd but will call today to touch base with them again. PO has no place to take difficult child that will accept him so either he picks him up and they go sit in POs office or no one [picks difficult child up on his release date...that would be abandonment, right? If PO takess it to court after release, I think we can show that difficult child would have been willing but I wasn't- iif he sticks difficult child in detention over it, or for any reason, there has to be a court hearing within just a couple of days. If difficult child goes wild then it proves to me and everyone that he needs more and should be in gh but if difficult child does what he should, he deserves the chance and I'd hope a judge would take that into consideration. Hopefully, this will be a motivator for difficult child.
 

klmno

Active Member
Buddy, she's worried that either difficult child will reoffend or that PO will take us to court for violating his orders by me not signing difficult child into GH...I think but she didn't specify. It's already in writing that either PO or I could pick difficult child up but it says to transport him to GH ....but PO sent that to her before sending me the GH app that clearly says this is a post-d program and requires either court order or parental consent and then me verifying with him that I was not going to consent. He's had all week to try to get a court order and as I pointed out to super, I've done nothing to try to interfere with that. and I didn't say a word about them pushing difficult child's date from wed to fri for all this. I don't think po will show up over there - the last I heard from him hye said he was waiting to hear from central office on how to proceed. Unless I see a court order or something major changes, I'm picking difficult child up. I'll let him know today. I'm thinking if it was truly a condition of release, they wouldn't be allowed to release difficult child knowing this isn't in place. I told super that if the direction was to transport difficult child to gh, then I'll drive him over and we'll stand in the doorway bbut I'm not signing custody of my kid over to anyone. If he gets a court order without difficult child reoffending, I will appeal it but will not violate the court order and hide difficult child or anything like that.

All I can figure is that PO and his super botth are used to acting in the role of probation officers and they could get a parent to do this because a judge already ordered it to try to prevent incarceration or they have something on the kid they can take them to court for to be incarcerated so the parent agrees- like Step and O. But they simply can't do this when the kidd already got the max sentence and hasn't reoffended ((yet).
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Klmno,

Sending out supportive thoughts and care as you seek to do what is right and "Just" for your son.

Hang in there, You are a True Warrior Mom.
Hugs,
LMS
 

klmno

Active Member
How much ya wanna bet that PO is waiting until I get difficult child here then will stjick him in detention for violating? I'll prepare difficult child for it. I can prove in court that I tried to get a judge to review this prior to gfrg's release though but no one would allow me to take it before a judge. Therefore, I sent the letter requesting central Department of Juvenile Justice office ((director) to review it.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
The only fly in this ointment I can see is that difficult child was ordered to 15 -24 months and he has only served 18. Am I correct in that? Has he received the shortened sentenced because of time off for good behavior...such as the way they do it in adult courts with either 1 day for 1 day or even 2 days for 1 day. I believe in some prisons their time is reduced at a rate of either 1 day off their sentence for every 1 day they are good or either reduced by 2 days off their sentence for every 1 day they are good. If either of those are the case, they cannot reinstate his time because it is over with. Once his time served, it is served. Its one thing to get out on parole early and having the rest of his sentence hanging over his head.

If he is completely finished, I think you are pretty much in the clear.
 

klmno

Active Member
Not exactly--- on the first commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice they can get 3 mos knocked off that shorter period for good behavior but difficult child didn't qualify this time because that's only allowed the first commitment, not the 2nd one. The judge didn't set the sentence, it was set from Department of Juvenile Justice guidelines and the only way they can hold a kid to the max is if they aren't going thru the required treatment plan or they are continuing to get set back due to charges in the faciility. Therefore, difficult child earned his way out and owes them no more time. I think we are clear, too, and once I show the judge the app from the gh stating it's a post-d program and requires either parental placement or court order, I think we'll be fine. Plus, I can prove that PO had ample time to get a court order or whatever else he wanted in place. I think PO could be the one endiinig up looking bad over all this.

Oh- I just thoughtt of something- if po throws difficult child in detention, he'll get a def attny immediately.

I'm still nervous about it though. We shouldn't be at the release date going thru all this. When PO knew I wasn't going to agree to a long term placement that's also another punishment, WTH didn't he start dealing with that then? They seriously must have thought they had authority to sign difficult child in themselves. They thrive on creating drama and anxiety!
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Take a xanax and just go pick him up. Do you have everything he needs to prove to CPS that he can be provided for in your home? Bed, clothes, food?
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
I woke up around 2 AM thinking of you and worrying about your situation. Yeah, I know, it really is not my concern but as a family member it's on my mind. You're an intelligent adult woman who likely neither needs or wants input from a family elder. on the other hand it worries me that you are a single person hoping to trump the system. I'm hoping my input is not seen as "anti" because it's not.

The primary concern I have is the environment difficult child could face on his first morning of freedom after a long time living in a stressful place. His emotions have to be all over the place in anticipation of his release. No matter what the law says and no matter what the parties intentions may be...he will step into an anxiety laden situation. That is my main concern.

The secondary concern is that "the system" asked you if he could come home to your place upon release and for a number of valid reasons you expressed your concerns. They offered what they considered "supports" for at home placement and among other things you were concerned they would randomly invade your home and also that the mentor they offered would not be properly qualified. They have those records showing that the offer was made and was rejected many months ago...and possibly on more than one occasion. That concerns me on your behalf and difficult child's.

Then again it has been many months since they identified the GH that they planned to use. Regardless of the locale. condition or staffing that was what they choose as Plan B. At that point you discovered that the goal was not what you wanted (short term reunification adjustment period) and other concerns arose about the residency, management etc. at the GH. Just a short while ago they said you could pick him up and transport him there and you refused to do so and told them they could transport if he was going to the GH. That also is in their records.

I'm assuming they have a legal right to participate in difficult children post incarceration adjustment. They have no supports in place for your home. There have been no schedules set for visitation, mentoring, etc. and they have no advance info on your home or his academic placement. Frankly, I honestly don't see how they can let him drive away with his Mom and not have liability should something go wrong.

Being a Warrior Mom is extremely difficult. Your situation is complex, protracted and evidentally includes legal issues that can/could be addressed. You've worked hard researching the laws and the intentions of the laws. on the other hand, unlike many family members who also support you, I don't embrace the idea of a face off upon release. Even if you were able to pick difficult child up and take him home I am sure that some degree of chaos will soon follow. I am a strong proponent of our CD site being a "soft place to land" but we are also family with different perceptions. The best interests of your family is foremost on my mind. I continue to send caring thoughts and prayers that the best resolution is found. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
DDD, I thought about all that but it's not the complete way things went. I never refused anyone coming here. I've kept all appts/reqd communication with PO. I did express all those concerns and then PO and I had the discussion basicly trying to compromise on a plan for services with difficult child coming home but that's when super stepped in and said she was going to order gh placement no matter what. In these letters to Department of Juvenile Justice and everyone, I had clearly and briefly but concisely spelled all this out. As far as services lined up, tthat was part of my complaint on po - whether difficult child caamee home or not, it wwas po's job, reqd by law, to have MH plan in order and in place prior to release, etc, and he had not been doing this stuf or he did it way after the period of time he was supposed to. I'd asked for a written parole plan a hundred times and have never rec'd one. He has never scheduled a home visit, which should havee been done even before deciding on parole plan. Now when I first movedd here, the first po assigned came by and banged on the door, unnanounced, every 2-3 weeks. I quit getting up and answering the door. But given that I'm not on parole, he'd already verified I liveed there and had been inside the home, difficult child was incarcerated so he didn't need to verify anoything on difficult child's whereabouts, and he hadn't scheduled a time with me, they can't do squat for me not anwering the door when I don't know who's banging on it. This PO has always scheduled appts and they are always at his office. I have since moved and notified PO when I did and gave him new address. He should have come by then, but didn't. Now I will say, the PO in the old jurisdiction, after difficult child's 1st release, never did that either.

Even in the letter I sent him Monday, I asked for verification that difficult child can come home since he doesn't have placement lined up. I said if that's the case, I also need to know when to bring difficult child to him for parole check in and to receive written parole req- he only responded that he's waiting to hear back from ceentral office but difficult child is still sccheduled for release on Fri.

The post-d progrram is a specific punishment program- maybe they don't use that term in other states but it is known in this state and referred to as such in the state law. A judge simply cannot order it in addition to commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice without there being an additional crime committted. PO never once looked into any other placement or out-of-hhome program. That would have been entirely different. All the things you are bringing up are my complaints against him. But a post-d order would be double jeopardy.

Being that my son is a minor and I have always retained full guardianship/legal authority as a parent, and he's never been in the custody of dss, they have no authority to do anything but return him to me without justifiable cause proven in court and a judge ordering it. The super and PO could have been pursuing that 3 mos ago when tthey knew I was not in agreement with long term GH placement- and they documented that, too. But who pursued trying to get a higher authhority to review this? Me, not them. The clerk knows I tried to get a court hearing but couldn't. My letter to Department of Juvenile Justice asked for review by either them or a judge. PO sat here and didn't do squat except insist they they were placing difficult child in that program, and then he was misrepresenting what it was. Well, sorry for him that he didn't have authority to place difficult child in it. PO kept claiming he had custody of difficult child- no he doesn't- once released from the state facility, me and the court have custody. PO is to monitor but cannot placee my kid anywhere himself. He must have thought it was the same as a kid being in the custody of dss but it's not. The proof is on this app that was forwarded to me from PO so it's clear- either dss, court order, or parent. Additionally, once placed in Department of Juvenile Justice, a kid cannot be placed in dss unless in custody of dss prior to committal to Department of Juvenile Justice or in extreme cases of abandonment and the kid being under 17.
 
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DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
DDD I have the same worries but I am unsure exactly what else the options are because I have a feeling if difficult child goes into that group home, there is no way she will be able to get him out without being charged with some form of kidnapping charges. I dont think I would sign my son into that group home myself and it appears that the powers that be cant have admitted without her signature so its a stalemate. Now that might be the better way, to simply stand there and go toe to toe with the PO over exactly what he wants to do at that moment. I really dont know.
 

klmno

Active Member
I was adding more to my last post, DJ- you snuck in on me. Don't you think if PO thought he could get this court ordered, he would have already done it? And he can't have a hearing re my son's custody without me being notified. A PO simply doesn't have authority to order a parent to sign over custody and that's exactly what is in this agreement/app from GH- "parent knowingly and willfully agrees to turn over custody....". Again, I wouldn't defy a court order but I would appeal it,, unless difficult child is showing delinquency again like after his first release, then I'll reconsider signing him in and I put that in my letter to PO on Monday, too.

If difficult child went to that GH, he'd never be free again prior to aging out of the system.
 

klmno

Active Member
I look at it like this, if there's justifiable cause for a kid on probation to be turned over to dss then they go to court and get that done or report parent to cps and cps proves case in court, whatever. If they are standing there telling a parent to turn the kid over to dss as a parental placement, then they don't have a leg to stand on and a parent would be crazy to agree to that unless the parent thought the placement was in the best interest for the child. But again, this isn't a dss GH- it's post-d. Further, I could fight it because before difficult child was committed the first time and I couldn't get them to let him into a psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC), I asked for post-d instead of commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice and that PO argued against it stating difficult child couldn't go to post-d due to nature of his charges. PO after first commitment, when I asked about post d in lieu of second commitment, told me once commited to Department of Juvenile Justice once, post-d is off the table as a possible sentence. Now I think a parent could still do a parental placement there if they chose to.

Do you know that I tried to look into a shorter term placement option and PO got livid?

I think I'll pick difficult child up, take him to GH and let some staff at GH know we are there, call PO from cell phone and say "we are here, do you have the court order the GH requires for him to be placed here? If not, where would you like me to take difficult child now because I can't just abandon him? Would you agree to me taking him home now? When you figure out where difficult child is legally reqd to be, call me." But if I don't pick difficult child up, he can claim parental abandonment.

Also, in the parental agreement with gh, they expect a parent to relinquish them from responsibility for your kid having "mishaps" in their gh or anything except emergency medical treatment.
 
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DDD

Well-Known Member
I feel relieved that I have expressed my caring concerns. My fervent hope is that the solution is the most supportive of difficult child as he goes through this transition. I'm hoping there will be resolution prior to tomorrow so the transfer is minimally traumatic for you and your son. Fingers crossed and caring thought continuing via cyberspace. Hugs. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
thank you, DDD. I think the problem is that PO/super put all their eggs in one basket thinking they had legal authority to instead of continuing to hash out an agreement parole plan for difficult child with me. I know that it wasn't an easy task- for them as well as me, and several things were discussed and many concerns of different types expressed from all of us thru this course. That's not the same thing as refusal- the only thing I refused was 6-8 mos ago when the plan was for difficult child to come home with no services at all, except 30 days house arrest. Obviously, I really can't make them order services though. We did go back and forth over what types of services and that's what PO and I were coming to terms with when super stepped in and refused anything but this post-d. It is their responsibility to transport a kid if a kid is being transferred like this and the central office agreed, the same as if difficult child was transported back to detention center for a court hearing or something. I'm not taking responsibility if he runs or something. The idea for me to transport him was a means to try to get me to sign the agreement for placement. It was only after central office told PO that csu had to transport difficult child that PO came forward with this app/agreement and told me that I had to sign this first if he was transporting difficult child. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known what the program really is, for certain, or that it required my consent unless I showed up with difficult child and demanded to read the entire thing prior to signing something. The fact that I didn't agree to transport difficult child is why this able able to come out prior to difficult child's release so he can't get into trouble over this mess- he hasn't been released on parole today.

If PO knew that I wasn't in agreement with post-d so then it would take an order by a judge, he has had mos to get that order, or try to. The super at the Department of Juvenile Justice facility agreed with that yesterday- why did he sit here for months and not have this taken care of? This shows you how much they looked into any of it before digging their heals in. And Why on earth central office hasn't already told him to either go get a court order this week or develop a different parole plan is beyond me. He could have gotton a hearing this week to tell a judge everything you brought out and it might justify a placement out of the home, however, it still wouldn't justify a post-d placement because that would be double jeopardy. And by law, there would have to be some sort of reunification plan. (All of that is what I asked for, by the way.) There were other options but super refused to consider them. I said a long time ago they are making rash decisions without even reading difficult child's file.

Sorry for being redundant- I'm still mulling it all over in my head and rambling about it, I guess.
 
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InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
If difficult child went to that GH, he'd never be free again prior to aging out of the system.
Maybe that was the PO's plan? Couldn't figure out what to do with you or what to do with difficult child, so... just keep the two of you apart?
 
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