I have overloaded myself with information about borderline personality disorder. I wonder if it is really as hopeless as it seems? Surely if someone suffering from this disorder sees a good psychotherapist they will eventually show their true self and can be helped? Having said that I think that I too come from a borderline family or origin. I wish I knew about this disorder earlier in my life, so I could help my Mum and indeed my daughter who showed these symptoms as a teenager. I did try to help my daughter but she would refuse to go counselling, saying that it was me that was "mad". I begged her Dad to help me get her help, but he couldn't be bothered as he was too busy with his new life and would say that she was being a typical teenager. But my instinct told me it was more, and I could see a similarity with my own Mums behaviour, which scared me. I feel helpless at times. I too have suffered with anxiety at different times in my life, but I always try to overcome it for the good of others around me. I also believe that I deserve some happiness in my life, as I have always put others first. I am now 51 and I have a full life, but the sadness about my daughter is impeding me. I just keep reminding myself the wise words Detach, detach, detach. I am so sorry if I go on a bit too much about this. Thanks for listening to all of you.I like that - Borderline family of originAlthough for me that was not my family - they had their issues but not that. My grandmother on my mom's side, she was the narcissistic - sociopath my daughter inherited her DNA from.
What have i done so wrong to make my adult daughter dislike me so much?
- Thread starter elliedeb
- Start date
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Well that also is a problem because most therapist openly dislike people with personality disorders as the rate of "successful treatment" is extremely low. I have told others here that a personality disorder differs from a mental disorder in that you can get help for a mental disorder; try changing your entire personality to actually be someone else. Try thinking if you could be changed to behave like your daughter does for the rest of your life. Not likely.
The help for this situation is for you, not her. You can change to interact with her on another, more comfortable level once you understand the "what" you are dealing with.
Maybe you will decide you can't do that because her behavior is so out there. That is OK too. But now that you are becoming aware of what you are dealing with, it is in your hands to decide what you will do when dealing with your daughter.
Personality disorders have DNA and can skip some members of the family or hit others especially hard. Just like different eye colors, height, hair etc.
Accepting what your daughter is will set you into a big emotional battle within yourself, because you can no longer actually talk to her, especially about the disorder, (she will reject it) so anytime you deal with her, this person you know and dislike will always be this way unless she is "working" you in some way.
It's a long and lonely road but this board is here for you. I am here for you.
Thank you for being there, as I do feel alone with this. I'm also going through a guilt trip as everything I have read has said it's likely to be hereditary & bad parenting. I was effectively mum & dad with 12, 10 & 6 years old. My daughter being aged 12. She must have heard the arguing with her Dad. He became physically & emotionally unavailable to her. I had a near breakdown I.e. Crying, angry and sad. I didn't cope at times especially with my eldest who hated me. I did shout at times. But my nature is to nurture & love too much as I never had love as a child. I overcompensated & spoilt them. My ex husband & I failed her. I fear that we are to blame. I can't shake this feeling off. Have ordered books from Amazon to try & get help & learn how to deal with her if & when I have contact. She has been messaging me about cooking recipes?! I have answered them but been short & to the point. I no longer send her loving texts as she then has power over me. Sounds crazy but true. I think this is the first time I haven't messaged her & that's why she contacted me. I have never given up before. Hugs to you for being so understanding.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
The only way you failed her is to breed with somebody with his DNA and to have similar genes in your family too. Most of us do the same.
Now it's not that people with borderline can't change. They can. I have traits or did. But I hated them and wanted to change and I went to therapy and studied like an advanced college student and practiced and took everything I heard to heart. The good in me won out and my dysfunctional behavior was something I understood and did change. If you read about borderline in Marsha Linamans, Dialectal Behavioral Therapy you will see that there is finally a way to treat borderline. One can keep his personality, but get rid of the traits that are ruining his life and his relationships with literally everyone. It CAN be treated. However, few borderlines WANT to change. That's the problem. My therpaist and psychiatrist have told me it is extremely rare for a full blown borderline (which I never was) to even acknowledge there is anything wrong with the way they function. They blame everyone else and if you dare to suggest t here may be something wrong with them, well, they have a tantrum and meltdown that would do a two year old credit and you quickly end up on their "naughty" list. A borderline does not just hide his anger. He/she will act on it and go out of his way to hurt you. He will feel fury and want revenge. Often the anger makes no sense at all. At any rate, it is greatly exaggerated. Yes, borderlines have changed. There are books about those who have. I haven't skipped a book. "Get me out of here" is a great book.
But that young woman WANTED to change and worked very hard for years to change.
Narcicistics and antisocials don't want to change either.
Any drug addict who doesn't want to change will not change
Nobody will change unless he/she sees the error of his ways or thinking guffaws and wants to change. It does not sound like your daughter thinks there is anything wrong with her. In fact it sounds like she thinks it is ALL you, which is typical with borderline (people are either "all good" or "all bad" to them). They do not live in the gray area where people can have good and bad traits or life can be good and bad at the same time. It is just extremes. Their moods are uncontrollable. They can learn to control both of those thinking errors, but most never want to. I have heard that the DSM will eventually call borderline "Emotional Dysregulation Disorder." It fits better.
It does tend to run in families, showing genetic compounds. If anything, because borderlines hate to be abandoned, your husband leaving her probably kicked up her latent Borderline (BPD), not you, but she is choosing to blame you for this abandonment. They are a lot alike. If you have a personality disorder in your family, you usually don't have to look too far to find another one.
Guilt is a totally wasted emotion, especially since you probably had very little to do with it. Sounds like she always had it and that husband leaving her lit a fire under her. Your daughter is now over eighteen. If there is anything wrong with her, mentally or physically, it is her responsibility to fix it. You can't. Nobody can. The "why" is soemthing none of us will never know. Sometimes these types of children show up in the nicest families. Nobody knows 100% why, but everything is moving away from things being parental cause and moving onto genetics, at least in the scientific world (read it). Plus, again, if she had a predisposition to be borderline, her father leaving your family was likely the trigger. But she is choosing to blame you because he left as if one can make another do something they do not want to do. Borderline twisted thinking.
It would help you a lot if you read up on it. At least you will ease your mind and realize your limitations and even pick up some pointers on how to treat toxic people, no matter who they are. There are better ways to interact with them than how you are trying to do it. Remember, Daughter does not think like you and you need to learn another approach if you want to have a healthy life yourself.
If you blame every parent for yelling at her spouse...then you are blaming many parents who have wonderful grown kids. It doesn't make real sense that if you fight or divorce that your kids will be vile. If that were the case 50% of all kids would be vile because half the homes divorce. And many who don't, well, the marriages are far from perfect.
For your own sake, it is best to get therapy for yourself and learn how to cope and move on and not accept abuse, no matter who you get it from or why you want to take it (like misguided guilt). They respect us even less if we let them throw us around and abuse us even worse. That isn't good for us and it actually is not good to give them ammo to use their dark side. It is best for all if we learn how to handle the toxic people in our lives. Some of us have to walk away altogether. Some of us can't, and those of us who can't are the ones who need to learn how to do this the most. Your daughter is lacking empathy. You have to learn how to handle short, concise interactions with her without allowing her to destroy your soul. You can learn it. Most of us on this forum are where you are, or were, and many of us oldsters have learned to live happy, productive lives in spite of having at least one child who broke our hearts.
Stick around. We are here for you.
Now it's not that people with borderline can't change. They can. I have traits or did. But I hated them and wanted to change and I went to therapy and studied like an advanced college student and practiced and took everything I heard to heart. The good in me won out and my dysfunctional behavior was something I understood and did change. If you read about borderline in Marsha Linamans, Dialectal Behavioral Therapy you will see that there is finally a way to treat borderline. One can keep his personality, but get rid of the traits that are ruining his life and his relationships with literally everyone. It CAN be treated. However, few borderlines WANT to change. That's the problem. My therpaist and psychiatrist have told me it is extremely rare for a full blown borderline (which I never was) to even acknowledge there is anything wrong with the way they function. They blame everyone else and if you dare to suggest t here may be something wrong with them, well, they have a tantrum and meltdown that would do a two year old credit and you quickly end up on their "naughty" list. A borderline does not just hide his anger. He/she will act on it and go out of his way to hurt you. He will feel fury and want revenge. Often the anger makes no sense at all. At any rate, it is greatly exaggerated. Yes, borderlines have changed. There are books about those who have. I haven't skipped a book. "Get me out of here" is a great book.
But that young woman WANTED to change and worked very hard for years to change.
Narcicistics and antisocials don't want to change either.
Any drug addict who doesn't want to change will not change
Nobody will change unless he/she sees the error of his ways or thinking guffaws and wants to change. It does not sound like your daughter thinks there is anything wrong with her. In fact it sounds like she thinks it is ALL you, which is typical with borderline (people are either "all good" or "all bad" to them). They do not live in the gray area where people can have good and bad traits or life can be good and bad at the same time. It is just extremes. Their moods are uncontrollable. They can learn to control both of those thinking errors, but most never want to. I have heard that the DSM will eventually call borderline "Emotional Dysregulation Disorder." It fits better.
It does tend to run in families, showing genetic compounds. If anything, because borderlines hate to be abandoned, your husband leaving her probably kicked up her latent Borderline (BPD), not you, but she is choosing to blame you for this abandonment. They are a lot alike. If you have a personality disorder in your family, you usually don't have to look too far to find another one.
Guilt is a totally wasted emotion, especially since you probably had very little to do with it. Sounds like she always had it and that husband leaving her lit a fire under her. Your daughter is now over eighteen. If there is anything wrong with her, mentally or physically, it is her responsibility to fix it. You can't. Nobody can. The "why" is soemthing none of us will never know. Sometimes these types of children show up in the nicest families. Nobody knows 100% why, but everything is moving away from things being parental cause and moving onto genetics, at least in the scientific world (read it). Plus, again, if she had a predisposition to be borderline, her father leaving your family was likely the trigger. But she is choosing to blame you because he left as if one can make another do something they do not want to do. Borderline twisted thinking.
It would help you a lot if you read up on it. At least you will ease your mind and realize your limitations and even pick up some pointers on how to treat toxic people, no matter who they are. There are better ways to interact with them than how you are trying to do it. Remember, Daughter does not think like you and you need to learn another approach if you want to have a healthy life yourself.
If you blame every parent for yelling at her spouse...then you are blaming many parents who have wonderful grown kids. It doesn't make real sense that if you fight or divorce that your kids will be vile. If that were the case 50% of all kids would be vile because half the homes divorce. And many who don't, well, the marriages are far from perfect.
For your own sake, it is best to get therapy for yourself and learn how to cope and move on and not accept abuse, no matter who you get it from or why you want to take it (like misguided guilt). They respect us even less if we let them throw us around and abuse us even worse. That isn't good for us and it actually is not good to give them ammo to use their dark side. It is best for all if we learn how to handle the toxic people in our lives. Some of us have to walk away altogether. Some of us can't, and those of us who can't are the ones who need to learn how to do this the most. Your daughter is lacking empathy. You have to learn how to handle short, concise interactions with her without allowing her to destroy your soul. You can learn it. Most of us on this forum are where you are, or were, and many of us oldsters have learned to live happy, productive lives in spite of having at least one child who broke our hearts.
Stick around. We are here for you.
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2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Here is something about causes from The National Institute of Mental Health: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml#part2
Causes
"Research on the possible causes and risk factors for Borderline (BPD) is still at a very early stage. However, scientists generally agree that genetic and environmental factors are likely to be involved.
Studies on twins with Borderline (BPD) suggest that the illness is strongly inherited. Another study shows that a person can inherit his or her temperament and specific personality traits, particularly impulsiveness and aggression. Scientists are studying genes that help regulate emotions and impulse control for possible links to the disorder.
Social or cultural factors may increase the risk for Borderline (BPD). For example, being part of a community or culture in which unstable family relationships are common may increase a person's risk for the disorder. Impulsiveness, poor judgment in lifestyle choices, and other consequences of Borderline (BPD) may lead individuals to risky situations. Adults with borderline personality disorder are considerably more likely to be the victim of violence, including rape and other crimes."
Again, for you, now that your child is an adult, you have to do what is best for you. You said for a time you were at no contact. Here, on the board I learned about a concept called low contact - where you have contact only when it is the right thing for you to do and the other person is acting in a respectful way. Either way, you have to get to a point of acceptance. Have you read the article on this board about detachment?
Maybe, because I have a therapist I like, I agree that therapy for you is a good idea. I think it is really important that you find someone you feel comfortable with because the last thing you need is someone who is going to add to you feelings of inadequacies, for a problem that is not yours.
Also there is NAMI where there are free support groups for family members of those with mental illness: www.NAMI.org to find your local chapter.
I know it sounds illogical that you are the one who has to go for therapy, but in truth it really helps you to come to acceptance that your daughter is mentally ill/personality disordered and how to live a life protecting yourself from the damage that she can do both to your own mental health and the disruptions in your life.
I don't know how to say it more clearly: How she turned out is NOT YOUR FAULT!
Causes
"Research on the possible causes and risk factors for Borderline (BPD) is still at a very early stage. However, scientists generally agree that genetic and environmental factors are likely to be involved.
Studies on twins with Borderline (BPD) suggest that the illness is strongly inherited. Another study shows that a person can inherit his or her temperament and specific personality traits, particularly impulsiveness and aggression. Scientists are studying genes that help regulate emotions and impulse control for possible links to the disorder.
Social or cultural factors may increase the risk for Borderline (BPD). For example, being part of a community or culture in which unstable family relationships are common may increase a person's risk for the disorder. Impulsiveness, poor judgment in lifestyle choices, and other consequences of Borderline (BPD) may lead individuals to risky situations. Adults with borderline personality disorder are considerably more likely to be the victim of violence, including rape and other crimes."
Again, for you, now that your child is an adult, you have to do what is best for you. You said for a time you were at no contact. Here, on the board I learned about a concept called low contact - where you have contact only when it is the right thing for you to do and the other person is acting in a respectful way. Either way, you have to get to a point of acceptance. Have you read the article on this board about detachment?
Maybe, because I have a therapist I like, I agree that therapy for you is a good idea. I think it is really important that you find someone you feel comfortable with because the last thing you need is someone who is going to add to you feelings of inadequacies, for a problem that is not yours.
Also there is NAMI where there are free support groups for family members of those with mental illness: www.NAMI.org to find your local chapter.
I know it sounds illogical that you are the one who has to go for therapy, but in truth it really helps you to come to acceptance that your daughter is mentally ill/personality disordered and how to live a life protecting yourself from the damage that she can do both to your own mental health and the disruptions in your life.
I don't know how to say it more clearly: How she turned out is NOT YOUR FAULT!
Your reply has made me cry with relief as all my life I have spent shouldering responsibility for everything. I left home at 17 married at 18 had my first mortgage at 18. Had 3 children by 29 years old, divorced at 37 years and always without any family support. I always blame myself, as I am the adult in all of this. Thank you so much, as I am made to feel that if the sun doesn't shine it has to be my fault! I m off to work now to see my pre schoolers who always lift me. Thank you for your words, and kindness. I will re read your post when I return tonight. Thanks so muchx
I haven't replied to anyone for a while as things seemed to calm down. I stopped contacting my daughter & then on my birthday she called & asked me to have grand daughter overnight as her husband was going away & they needed alone time. We picked the baby up & she bought me my favourite chocolates that her Dad used to buy me & haven't had in 16 years as they are very expensive. I was touched & thanked her. We had the baby for 2 nights then my daughter came to pick her up but decided to stay with baby for 2 nights at ours. She avoided conversations with me had just superficial conversations. My son rang to say he wOuld like to take me out on the following Sunday for Mother's Day. It's also his birthday. I stupidly asked my daughter if she was coming. She said probably not as its Mothers Day & she would like to spend the day with the baby instead! Am I stupid or what?!! Her husband is away. It's her brothers birthday I'am her MUM! So I pretended it didn't bother me. Then yesterday I get a call from my son to say that night he'd like to go out to the bar and include his sister but she told him I probably wouldn't babysit as I get home from work around 6.30pm and would be tired so she couldn't go. So I said why doesn't she ask me herself? I then stupidly offered but said she would have to bring baby to me. She declined as she "can't be bothered to drive half an hour to your house" and that her husband would do it. She lied as her husband is away! My other daughter sent me flowers today & a lovely card with loving words. The Borderline (BPD) daughter will just ignore Mother's Day but will also play the victim.
I must be the most stupid person that ever existed! I was just so grateful to have my Grand daughter. I had a long hard week & thought it only fair for her to bring the baby to me for a change. I had decided to try things on my terms for a change & she didn't like it at all! I am a fool but will continue to try to put up boundaries. Fed up of being a door mat, for sure x
I must be the most stupid person that ever existed! I was just so grateful to have my Grand daughter. I had a long hard week & thought it only fair for her to bring the baby to me for a change. I had decided to try things on my terms for a change & she didn't like it at all! I am a fool but will continue to try to put up boundaries. Fed up of being a door mat, for sure x
She is a prize manipulator she could teach master classes. I am so angry but angry with myself even more. I will not engage with her. I will not contact her. When she stayed with us the two nights the day she left I was off work and she said she was leaving & taking the baby out to the zoo for the day. She didn't ask me if I wanted to come along. So I didn't invite myself and give her the pleasure of making me unwelcome. In her mind I am in the bad pile. Her view of me is dark and immovable no matter what I do I can never get her to see I am a good enough parent.
Childofmine
one day at a time
Hi Billy, I am so sorry about your daughter's behavior. We truly aren't a match for people who only manipulate to get what they want. We feel punched in the gut every time, and we can't get ahead of them. They are always one step ahead of us.
I think you are exactly right to step back and not engage. Let things settle, and focus on yourself. It sounds like you are always willing to help, and it's good to be that way, but not when you're taken advantage of.
You may want to start a new thread, Billy, since this is an old one. You can do that by going to the PE page, and on the right hand side there is a button to create a new thread.
Also, there are instructions on creating a signature--that way we can know a little bit about you and your family.
We are glad you are here. Please keep posting. We get it, and we care. Take care of YOU tonight. You deserve good things.
I think you are exactly right to step back and not engage. Let things settle, and focus on yourself. It sounds like you are always willing to help, and it's good to be that way, but not when you're taken advantage of.
You may want to start a new thread, Billy, since this is an old one. You can do that by going to the PE page, and on the right hand side there is a button to create a new thread.
Also, there are instructions on creating a signature--that way we can know a little bit about you and your family.
We are glad you are here. Please keep posting. We get it, and we care. Take care of YOU tonight. You deserve good things.
Thank you so much for replying. Will start a new thread/post next time and will try to dou signature. I'm a newbie! I'm so touched by all the helpful & kind people on this forum. So thanks for listening x
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
It's not you, it's her. You expect her to act like a normal person and she isn't normal and will always be erratic so keep your guard up. If it were me, I'd take my granddaughter when I could, but stay as far away from Daughter as possible. She will confuse you, hurt you, and anger you and wrap you around in circles if you let her. Don't let her.
Borderlines think in terms of all good and all bad. There is no such thing to them as a parent who tried and had some good traits and some bad traits, like most kids think about their parents. They are either 100% wonderful or 100% horrible in their black and white thinking. They do this with everyone. They lie a lot too.
Best thing you can do for yourself is to learn to detach from her and take your grandchild when grandchild is offered you. It is probably a good idea not to have Daughter stay overnight, but that's JMO.
Hugs and hope you have a serene and peaceful night.
Borderlines think in terms of all good and all bad. There is no such thing to them as a parent who tried and had some good traits and some bad traits, like most kids think about their parents. They are either 100% wonderful or 100% horrible in their black and white thinking. They do this with everyone. They lie a lot too.
Best thing you can do for yourself is to learn to detach from her and take your grandchild when grandchild is offered you. It is probably a good idea not to have Daughter stay overnight, but that's JMO.
Hugs and hope you have a serene and peaceful night.
Thank you for your kind words, I cling to them I really do. Today is Mothers Day, my youngest is 4 hours away at University and i received a card in the post with chocolates yesterday. She rang me first thing this morning to wish me a Happy Mothers day and to apologise for not being there. But I understand as she has exams. She is a sweet girl and I know she means it. She sensed the pain in my voice, when I told her it was just me and her brother going out for lunch today. The Borderline (BPD) daughter rang me early this morning to say the baby had been sick in the night and what should she do??!! She then texted me a happy mothers day. She never sent a card or anything. Her husband is a multi millionaire, yet she couldn't send a card. But then I suppose that would be hypocritical of her. She had no intention of seeing me today as she said she wanted to spend the day with the baby not me. Its her brothers birthday too, but she said she has arranged to go out with him for lunch on Monday instead. Why does she bother to even ring me about the baby? I have to be kind and tell her what to do to make the baby better. But if I am such a dreadful mother, why call me at all? If it weren't for the baby, I think I would cut myself off from her completely. I have had a serious discussion with my husband, and once my youngest leaves home this September as her rich Dad my ex has bought her an apartment. I will rent my house out for 6 months and go travelling. Its time for me. If I am being accused of being so awful, then I may as well live a little. I have always put everyone above me from aged 17 when I left home. I suffered an abusive childhood, left at 17 took care of myself. Then brought up a family on my own. I have had a mortgage since aged 19 years, I went to work so my ex husband could go to University. We built up a business together, both from very poor backgrounds. Then when we had it all, he went off and left us. Well its time for me now. I no longer wish to be a door mat. If I don't respect myself, no one else will. I love my kids but enoughs, enough. They always feel sorry for my eldest daughter as she plays the victim and turns on the tears so well. I do not wish to play or be the victim. I am a survivor, and I have survived alot of bad things in my life. I have no desire to carry on with things the way they are. I will not contact her unless she calls or messages me. My youngest is a lovely, thoughtful child and she has a auto immune disease and needs me to care for her at times. This is the only thing and my Grand daughter keeping me here. If we do go travelling, I will return if she is unwell I will make it clear to her as I know she worries about it. Her sister would never help her, even though her house is less than 10 minutes from the youngests apartment. If I die I know they will not look out for each other, even though I have tried to instill this in them. I have been too available, and accomodating going above and beyond to make up for my crappy childhood. And for their absent father as emotionally and physically he is never and never will be there for them. This I worry about. However I am 52 years old now, I don't wish to hurt anyone, but its time I got on with my life. I know this. I lie awake at nights worrying about the baby and how her mother will effect her. If my daughter blames me for everything and has "issues" because of me, how on earth will my Grand daughter feel about her Mum? I know that my Mum too is ill has Borderline Personality, coupled with Psychosis and Narcisstic tendencies. She was sectioned a few years ago, sadly. I see many similiarities with my daughter, but she has a heart deep down and some time this surfaces, whereas my mum never showed any love to us or anyone ever. I feel very torn at the moment, don't know how I will get through this year but will try. I owe it to myself, I know I am not a bad person. I make mistakes like everyone does, but I am not a malicious person. I have good friends,husband, two kids that love me most of the time, a loving cat and my Grand mother in heaven watching over me. I have blessings. I am a typical pisces who wants the world to be a loving one. It hurts me to see others in pain. But I have to acknowledge my own pain. I hope I don't come across as too self involved. Please do not judge me. The pain in my heart and sickness in my stomach is there from the time I go to bed, and first thing in the morning. The disappointment is too great for me to bare. I thought she had changed once she had the baby, as she was kinder to me. Once she started counselling she reverted back to hating me. Thank you all for your kind and wise words. I will keep a strong resolve, I promise I will try not to succumb to her hot cold game. Hugs to you all.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
There was a time, not so long ago either, when homosexuality was believed to have been caused by something bad the mother did.
Thieves, prostitutes, and mass murderers were believed to have "mother issues."
There was nothing that was not attributed to inappropriate bonding with the mother.
They were wrong about the things I have listed and, for the most part, they are wrong about bad parenting as a cause of anything ~ or, of good parenting as a cause of good behavior.
The genetics piece I fully agree with. MWM's and 2 Much posts on the genetics connection have been so helpful to me, both in figuring out my family of origin and in knowing how best to make a difference for my kids.
We want to teach them to rely on themselves.
That is the gold standard.
I think they have no choice about whether to love us, any more than we can turn our love for them ~ or for anyone in our lives ~ off and on easily. But I do think illness or drug addiction twists and makes them mean.
They take alot of that meanness out on us because we are the only ones who still care about and listen to them.
Mother love is an amazing thing.
We need to learn how to face what is happening to our kids without letting it destroy us.
We need to become really healthy, to do that.
No.
You did not fail your child.
If anything, what our children needed was a firmer hand. But I think that isn't it, either. What our children needed was not to get involved with drug use.
Addiction is not something a mother can fix. The best thing for the mom (or dad) of an addicted child to do is let go, lest the addiction destroy you, too.
There is nothing simple or easy about understanding how to do what we need to do to help our kids and ourselves.
I am glad you are here with us.
True.
True.
To do this was an amazing learning experience for me. It was through this information that I was able to stop blaming myself for the way things just seemed to fall apart ~ or worse.
But if we read through the information on genetics posted by 2Much and MWM, we can ease off on punishing ourselves about how and why. In my experience, once we can let go of that guilt, we can begin learning instead how to interact with our children in healthier ways.
Small steps.
It is helpful to them too, I think.
A little healthier here, a little healthier there, and things begin to get better.
No, we're not foolish, Billy. We are learning how to do this.
Just look how differently you are describing your situation, already.
Good job!
Yes.
So difficult to think this way, especially at first. It does seem to be true, though.
Thinking of my mother and my sister, here.
Cedar
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Cedar, you forgot to mention that in our childhoods (if you are near my age) autism was said to be caused by "refrigerator moms." And it was, of course, a form of schizophrenia!!!! Of course we now know that autism is a neurological difference and is very hereditary (if you have an autistic child you have a 1 in 20 chance of having another one). And it was considered untreatable too. We know better now, thirty years later. A shame it takes so long, but at least psychiatry is evolving constantly, which is good.
Psychiatry is in it's infancy. Genetics is becoming more and more understood in regards to behavior and behavioral problems. Freud is way out of style and was plain wrong with his "penis envy" (anyone here who is female upset that she does not have a penis?")
Psychiatry is not something I even consider a science. It is working toward being one. Right now it is a lot of theory that changes yearly.
I'm glad too. I never bought that garbage that parents cause this or that UNLESS it is fetal alcohol syndrome or attachment disorder. I am betting that in ten years almost all of psychiatry will be traced to mostly heredity. My parents were horrible parents, but I don't believe that is why I have mental illness. I always though I was born this way and I still believe that. Heredity.
Psychiatry is in it's infancy. Genetics is becoming more and more understood in regards to behavior and behavioral problems. Freud is way out of style and was plain wrong with his "penis envy" (anyone here who is female upset that she does not have a penis?")
Psychiatry is not something I even consider a science. It is working toward being one. Right now it is a lot of theory that changes yearly.
I'm glad too. I never bought that garbage that parents cause this or that UNLESS it is fetal alcohol syndrome or attachment disorder. I am betting that in ten years almost all of psychiatry will be traced to mostly heredity. My parents were horrible parents, but I don't believe that is why I have mental illness. I always though I was born this way and I still believe that. Heredity.
I'll take a different stand on that one.
What we've lived through in my family?
DNA is definitely part of it.
But experiences also play a part. And I'm not talking about "parenting" here... things that happen at school can be HUGE. At friends' houses. At activities like sports. Events that might be survivable by a neurotypical, are 10x or more worse for our non-typical kids. They start with a disadvantage - and the disadvantage is, as MWM says, mostly genetic.
But a fair bit of psychiatry will still be dealing with the things that get added on by life.
Oh my! A wealth of posts from so mNy of you. Have read and re read them and you all have valid points! Sometimes during the day I'm ok but not all day. I'm reading a book "I hate you, don't leave me" about Borderline (BPD). It has been enlightening. But in all honesty the information and advice from you all has been even more valuable and on the button. My daughter texts/calls me every morning now asking for advice on the baby who is unwell at the moment. She even came over today with a paltry Mothers Day card. Didn't ask me how my day was yesterday. I'm not contacting her so she is now contacting me. But it still hurts when I'm at work & my work colleagues tell me what plans they have for their mums on Mother's Day. My son took me for lunch but my husband ended up paying, no card from my son either. I have always spoiled them. Only my youngest makes a fuss a card, chocolates etc I despise myself for bringing selfish kids into the world. My son is usually good but he has been overspending lately & "forgot" to get me a card. My daughter wants to take me to lunch for a late Mother's Day but I will probably end up paying & also don't want to spend a fake lunch together. I don't understand why she bothered coming over today. I'm sure she wants something. I shall have to wait & see.
Familyorientednana
New Member
I am right with you, I have 3 grand children my daughter takes away from me every time I do or say something she doesn't like, its like punishing me, I am at my wits end also. Her boyfriend did the cinnamon challenge on my 9 yr old and he was stoned out and posted it on Facebook. He dropped my then 4 yr old on his head almost breaking his neck, both times of course I intervened, 3 yrs went by where I wasn't allowed to be any where around my grand kids. Now he had something to do with the death of my 17 yr old dog that she was watching for me, again I am wrong now to even ask what happened, and now no more kids, she punished me again. I was raised family oriented, I seen my mom and dad every chance I got and took my daughter to see them. She has become such a stranger to me, its like I don't know her any longer. I am sick of being punished and I have learned to pray allot, I talk to my 88 yr old mom. I don't have any friends, but I and my husband try to keep busy, but It does hurt so dang bad. I want that relationship with my grand kids, and its really killing me. When I did see her, it was for 5 min, to drop off kids so I can watch them the weekend and out the door she went. We loaned money, never got it back. She's gotten worse since she's been with this guy. But my words have to be silent, I'm sick of being silent, I'm afraid I will burst someday. Its not fair to us parents, why do we have to take this abuse, this is abuse.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Hi there. What a sad story. By the way, this is a very old post. You may want to start one of your own. Just click on "New Topic." Your post will get more visibility and you will get more support, which is what we are best at.
We don't all take the abuse. I won't. Most of here have learned not to allow our adult children to abuse us. And you can learn to not take it too. It demeans us and doesn't help anybody, not our adult kids and not our grandchildren. On this forum, we learn how to detach with love.
My very first question is, what's with your daughter. You talk a lot about this boyfriend, but she picked him. Are they doing drugs? Did you document his FB postings and take it to the police? I would think that those incidents would be enough to have CPS hot on his tail. Did you try to handle it yourself, within the family? If so...don't do it again that way, please. If you love your grandchildren, even if your daughter goes ballistic on you, you have to protect them by alerting the authorities, not trying to take it into your own hands. That will not work. They need to be away from this boyfriend and probably your daughter too if she allowed this boyfriend to kill your dog, for goodness sake. How sick. Both of them are sick, but you can't fix them or help your grandchildren without the police or CPS. You can't do that yourself. You have to take documentation of abuse and turn them both in. Stop giving her money. Stop it now. Don't give her anything. She is an adult.
Going over and over, in your head, how come things came to this is worthless. We've all done it and we never get the truth. Nobody knows the why of it. All we can do is the best WE know how, take good care of us, go out and have fun with our spouses, make friends, get hobbies, exercise, socialize more...when our adult children turn out to be criminals or heartless or both, we are not going to be involved grandparents because either they will take those grandchildren from us as punishment or they will lose custody of the grandchildren and they will go to foster care. The only possibility is that they may go to you...your age and circumstances and desires and ability to afford legal help would matter. I have five children, if I am being legally correct, and one won't talk to us...it's been eight years. He has two kids. His wife has a big part of it, even though she doesn't hardly know us, but I can't blame her. My son is his own person and makes his own decisions. He was adopted from a nother country at age six and seems he never really bonded to the family in a normal way. I regret the adoption...he was too old. My three baby adoptees did great...six is just too old. So here I am with a non-son and two legal grandchildren I will never see. I just go on. I have no choice and I'm happy. I have four other kids and two other grands and a life outside of them as well. I count my blessings and do not think about what I can't have. Do you have other children or nieces you are maybe close to with kids? Would you volunteer at a school as a mentor to young kids? Do you love animals? You can get into animal rescue. Just don't give any of your pets to your daughter!!!!
I can not control anybody except myself and you can't control your daughter either. You MAY be in a position to help your grandkids if you will take on your daughter and her boyfriend.
If you make a new post, or if the mods would be kind enough to make this one a new post, others who are much wiser than me will come here to also support you. We are warrior moms and we are survivors and you have us on your side now. And we're all glad to "Meet" you, although we are sorry that you had to come here. There is nothing you can tell us that will shock us and we are always here to "listen" to a vent and lend a shoulder.
We don't all take the abuse. I won't. Most of here have learned not to allow our adult children to abuse us. And you can learn to not take it too. It demeans us and doesn't help anybody, not our adult kids and not our grandchildren. On this forum, we learn how to detach with love.
My very first question is, what's with your daughter. You talk a lot about this boyfriend, but she picked him. Are they doing drugs? Did you document his FB postings and take it to the police? I would think that those incidents would be enough to have CPS hot on his tail. Did you try to handle it yourself, within the family? If so...don't do it again that way, please. If you love your grandchildren, even if your daughter goes ballistic on you, you have to protect them by alerting the authorities, not trying to take it into your own hands. That will not work. They need to be away from this boyfriend and probably your daughter too if she allowed this boyfriend to kill your dog, for goodness sake. How sick. Both of them are sick, but you can't fix them or help your grandchildren without the police or CPS. You can't do that yourself. You have to take documentation of abuse and turn them both in. Stop giving her money. Stop it now. Don't give her anything. She is an adult.
Going over and over, in your head, how come things came to this is worthless. We've all done it and we never get the truth. Nobody knows the why of it. All we can do is the best WE know how, take good care of us, go out and have fun with our spouses, make friends, get hobbies, exercise, socialize more...when our adult children turn out to be criminals or heartless or both, we are not going to be involved grandparents because either they will take those grandchildren from us as punishment or they will lose custody of the grandchildren and they will go to foster care. The only possibility is that they may go to you...your age and circumstances and desires and ability to afford legal help would matter. I have five children, if I am being legally correct, and one won't talk to us...it's been eight years. He has two kids. His wife has a big part of it, even though she doesn't hardly know us, but I can't blame her. My son is his own person and makes his own decisions. He was adopted from a nother country at age six and seems he never really bonded to the family in a normal way. I regret the adoption...he was too old. My three baby adoptees did great...six is just too old. So here I am with a non-son and two legal grandchildren I will never see. I just go on. I have no choice and I'm happy. I have four other kids and two other grands and a life outside of them as well. I count my blessings and do not think about what I can't have. Do you have other children or nieces you are maybe close to with kids? Would you volunteer at a school as a mentor to young kids? Do you love animals? You can get into animal rescue. Just don't give any of your pets to your daughter!!!!
I can not control anybody except myself and you can't control your daughter either. You MAY be in a position to help your grandkids if you will take on your daughter and her boyfriend.
If you make a new post, or if the mods would be kind enough to make this one a new post, others who are much wiser than me will come here to also support you. We are warrior moms and we are survivors and you have us on your side now. And we're all glad to "Meet" you, although we are sorry that you had to come here. There is nothing you can tell us that will shock us and we are always here to "listen" to a vent and lend a shoulder.
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wow, I have not been here for over 2 years.Partly du to me having so many issues to deal with, and partly due to me undergoing counselling during the past 2 yrs. There are still a lot of unresolved issues for me mainly due to me starting to work on my healing. Some of my issues are new as they have been revealed to me during my ongoing recovery work. I am so surprised at how many post there are and will endeavour to read them all. I have read some, and I am aware some are old now. If a new thread was started I would appreciate it if someone could point me to it
