17 yr old son, defiant and using

[toughlovin]

OK again I dont think there are any right or wrong answers. You have to listen to your gut and do what feels the best and what you can live with if the worst of the worst things happened.

If you dont involve the police and he comes home on his own how are you going to handle it?

Do you have any idea what drugs he is using and what he is getting high on? I think that is a factor because if he is out smoking weed, while not good, I would not be super worried about an overdose. If he is doing pills or other harder stuff then overdoses are a concern. So the answer to this question would affect how quickly I acted.

He is probably going to be really mad if you involve the police. I certainly dont think you should base your actions on a fear of his being angry.... however I do think the more you can maintain a positive good relationship the better off things are. However there are times when it is just impossible to maintain any kind of reasonable relationship while they are using drugs.... so this is just something to consider.

When you talked to the police were they sympathetic and helpful? Are you dealing with the unit that deals with drug issues or youth issues? Finding good cops that are sympathetic and will listen and explain your options can be super helpful. Some cops are great at this and some not so much.

I hope you have some good ways to relax and take care of yourself while you are going through this... it is so difficult on us and it is really important to take care of yourself in the process.

TL

 

[rc606]

Started with weed, but I believe has progressed to pills, based on several hours of vomiting last week.

The cops I've dealt with are very kind and helpful. He tried to scare difficult child last night and he just laughed at the cop. The cop said, "I'll be seeing him again, I'm afraid".

Part of my problem is that I have to leave town on Monday for business, and won't be home until Wed afternoon. My gut tells me to wait until I'm home, but let difficult child know that my next option is to get the authorities involved. Because if he won't listen to me and submit to my rules then he will have to submit to society's rules like a REAL adult

 

[toughlovin]

What will happen if he decides to come home while you are gone. Is your wife up for dealing with this on her own? What will her plan be?

I doubt warning him will do any good...but being clear about consequences and then following through is a good thing.

 

[rc606]

I've learned that yelling at him doesn't work and just escalates the situation. I don't ever want to hurt my son, but if it ever got physical he knows I would handle him quite easily. That's the reason he never gets aggressive with me, there's a fear factor I suppose.

That isn't something that my wife has in her favor, she's tiny. Besides that, she is his stepmom and he is so disrespectful to her it's not funny, except for when I'm present. The sad part is that she does EVERYTHING. For him and has loved him like one of her own for 10yrs now.

I fear that my mistake in ALL of this was being too easy on him in the year after his Mom passed, and now he doesn't feel as if I'm in a position of authority over him. I don't know anymore...

As for what my wife would do, she'd call the police immediately.

 

[BusynMember]

Started with weed, but I believe has progressed to pills, based on several hours of vomiting last week.

The cops I've dealt with are very kind and helpful. He tried to scare difficult child last night and he just laughed at the cop. The cop said, "I'll be seeing him again, I'm afraid".

Part of my problem is that I have to leave town on Monday for business, and won't be home until Wed afternoon. My gut tells me to wait until I'm home, but let difficult child know that my next option is to get the authorities involved. Because if he won't listen to me and submit to my rules then he will have to submit to society's rules like a REAL adult

Actually, I'd try even harder to get him into therapy now because of this. It is a bad sign when a kid laughs at a cop. My daughter, when she used drugs, was smart enough to be afraid of cops. She never smarted off to them. I think her demeaner helped her not get into worse trouble. She was a cute girl too...didn't hurt. But your son is showing early signs of defying of societal norms and disdain for authority. It could very well be linked to his mother's death. Was he like this at all before she died? Did he have a bad attitude or act entitled or oppositional before all this? Sometimes we need to take a trip backwards in time to see what the cause of it is.

If it is his mother's death that changed him, then he would have been a normal, happy, maybe slightly snarky kid before her death. If he has always been this way to a point, then perhaps her death kicked up what was always there. Stress can bring on latent issues and nothing is more stressful to a child than losing a parent.

I am really sad for both him and you and your family. I hope you can find some way to say just the right thing that makes him think. Is he bright? Does he do any deep thinking? My daughter is a very deep thinker, like me, and I really believe what we said to her resonated big time in her head, although, at the time, she would not admit it. I like to think that any seventeen year old can get sick and tired of the drug life, which my daughter claims was "horrible" (her word) and decide to just turn it around. I mean, if she can do it, anyone can. I thought she was either going to end up in prison or die. It was that bad.

Yet we only thought it was pot. Wrong. It was meth and ADHD medications crushed into a pillcrusher and snorted, along with cocaine sometimes. She tried ecstasy. She tried heroin a few times (anybody who tells you that if you try heroin once you will be hooked on it is not telling the truth. She did not use it any other time). There was little my daughter did not try, yet we didn't know it. We thought it was just pot until we caught her red-handed having a "pass-the-pill party" in our house on a day when we were not supposed to come home, but we came home early. Until then, we couldn't...just couldn't...allow ourselves to think that she was using anything except pot.

I'm guessing your son is using time away from you to use harder drugs. What drugs? You will never know unless he tells you. We would never have known the extent of our daughter's drug use if she had not quit, then felt compelled to tell us about her drug days. She also had drug dealers who wanted to hurt her because she owed them money. At the same time, she did get drugs for others. She told me, "If you use, you sell. That's just the way it is." I said everyone sells if they use? She sayls, "You dont' have to believe it, but that's what I see. Yes. You don't have morals when you use drugs."

I would be shocked if your son is only smoking pot. He probably wants to stay away so you won't see him high on other stuff. Question: Is he losing any weight?

Now the million dollar question...what is the best thing to do?

I don't know. Nothing we did worked. We put bars on daughter's bedroom window because she was sneaking out at night that way. We homeschooled her for the last two years of high school so that she didn't have the time to associate with her loser friends and her friends were not allowed in the house. But she saw them anyway. How? Well, we couldn't be home 24/7. More than that, she did her drugs and had her friends in while we were sleeping. At night she'd take uppers, which were her drugs of choice. Daytime she took downers because she needed to come down. Boy, she slept a lot, but since s he was also going to a Beautician School and getting good grades AND working at Walmart, we thought she was tired because of that.

A counselor from her school called to tell us that they were worried about her, that she fell asleep in class, that the other kids came to him worried because she did cocaine. She told me they were just jealous of her because she had such high grades. She is very bright and she did, even on drugs! We chose to believe her. I can not begin to explain the degree of our denial. I should say MY denial. My husband tried to get me to understand it was more than pot, but I didn't want to know.

We made her leave the day we came home and found her having a rousing drug party with her friends that did include pot, but also included so much other stuff. She had nowhere to go, but we didn't care. My younger kids were crying and hysterical and her "friends" were swearing and refusing to leave even when Daughter was begging them to go. We had to call the cops and this time everyone was legal.

My daughter was desperate so she called her straight-as-an-arrow brother and begged him to let her stay with him. This brother was close to her at one time (he isn't now...long story, but not her fault). At the time, he reluctantly drove up from another state and agreed she could live in the basement of his large house, however the rules he had were stricter than ours. One cigarette and she was out. She had to work, and walk to work as she would have no car. She had to clean and cook. She had to go to church with him (he is very religious). The list was endless. Bottom line, she quit everything, even cigarettes.

It could have gone the other way. She could have made new drug friends in Illinois and run away from brother's house. She didn't.

There is no blueprint to follow with a drug user.

Just dont' delude yourself that your son is only smoking pot. I mean, it's possible, but very unlikely. And it has probably been going on for longer than you think.

I feel for you and wish there was an easy fix. This is a very complicated situation.

 

[rc606]

I'm almost certain that he's also using pills too, but not sure what else. Two weeks ago he rode the school bus home and was vomiting all over the other kids. He kept saying to them that he had taken "like 4 different" things and it was causing him to be sick.

He is losing weight, but wasn't ever heavy. I noticed it last week when he was standing shirtless. I'm really concerned.

To answer your question about difficult child being snarky or defiant before Moms death, yes. We were divorced and both remarried, she used to call me all the time asking me to speak with him. difficult child hated his step dad and was constantly defiant with him and difficult child's Mom. He took ADHD medications for years, until he came here. His pediatrician took him off saying that he'd probably outgrown it and if he was doing well in school and wasn't having problems at home it should be fine. At the time difficult child was a model child too, so we left him off the medications

 

[BusynMember]

That episode with taking different things and vomiting is a big red flag, and he could seriously harm himself. I don't think you have any option than to get him into rehab. He could be using prescription drugs too, but my daughter started losing weight when she used meth. She got as skinny as a rail, but it took time. She was average weight before, but I just thought she was just doing the teenage dieting. Frankly, my daughter could have died too.When I asked her about her weight loss she just shrugged and said, "I'm too busy to eat."

Your son is a very sick young man. He isn't bad. He is sick. As time goes on, without rehab, he will become and addict and it will be very hard for him to stop the longer this goes on. Honest, I say this with a heavy heart, but it does not sound innocent or good. If he is one of those kids who always had a defiant attitude and a disregard for social norms, they are the ones most apt to do this, especially when life throws them a lemon. They do not make lemonade. They are rebellious by nature. And they can eventually become violent and dangerous to themselves and to you too. Drugs do that.

Just for your information, ADHD drugs are greatly abused on the streets. I am one who never liked them. My daughter tells me one Adderrall went to $10/pill when she used. That was over ten years ago. The price has probably increased. All the ADHD medications are used. Adderral is the one most coveted. What the kids do is crush them in pillcrushers and snort them either alone or with other drugs, such as cocaine, which my daughter used too. Then they are high as a kite and need downers to come down, which often makes them tired during the day. Many times they use stims while we are sleeping.

My daughter was an amazing drug user. The reason she fooled us, as stated above, was she could actually work and go to school while on Cocaine or meth...and do a good job at work and get good grades. But she is exceptionally bright.

Let me tell you, it was a nightmare. I am so happy to see my daughter today with her new, healthy baby and her clean SO. My daughter is actually chubby and I relish that. When she was using she was soooooooooo skinny. She doesn't like being chubby, but I do...lolk. I know she is clean and sober. She is living a good life now because she chose to quit at nineteen.

Please help your son before he is so steeped in his drug addiction that you can't even recognize him and you can't bring him back. I know you have other kids, but this one is the sick one. Again, you only have until he is eighteen. You will regret it later on if you never tried to help him before he turned eighteen. It is likely his friends are drug users too, and not just pot.

Do take this seriously. Go on YouTube and listen to videos about "How to Tell if your Child is Taking Drugs" or "Teens on Drugs." Learn all you can. Then try to give it one last shot before he is out of your reach. Once he is eighteen, it's all over for your influence. If you have any insurance, it could cover some treatment. He may not try...but at least YOU did. YOU will know you gave him a chance, that you did all you could. And you never know. It COULD work.

I really wish you and your son the best of luck.

 

[rc606]

So my difficult child called me last night around 10:30 to "check in", he was at a friend's house. I explained to him that he was still grounded and should've come directly home from school. I went on and told him that I love him and that his actions are forcing my hand to ensure his safety. I went on and explained that he had a choice to make, either come home and submit to the family's rules OR he can submit to the state's rules.

He of course became belligerent and disrespectful, so I hung up. He called back immediately and asked why I hung up, to which I replied "you will not be disrespectful to me anymore" and this happened a few more times and each time he called back.

I told him that I was done crying for him, to him and with him and that from this moment on I would be making the hard decisions for him because I love him. I then said in a calm voice "son, you've always said that you want to make your own decisions, well here's your chance...tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life, how's it going to go?" I then hung up the phone

Ten minutes later he called back and asked if I'd come get him, I agreed. I barely spoke to him on the ride home, but said this "living in my home offers many benefits, but also requires you to abide by family rules, is that something you're willing to do? Because the alternative is far less favorable to you" he cried and said yes.

Today I explained that he MUST go to counseling with a grief counselor and see a drug counselor. Also, any more interactions with his "drug friends" would result in my pulling the trigger on having him sent to a state sponsored facility for minors with drug issues. He must submit to weekly drug screenings by our physician, any failing results would result in my pulling the trigger on the facility. I told him that he is still a wonderful boy that will soon become a man, and that if he didn't get a handle on these issues now....it could ruin his life. He cried a lot and apologized.

We then worked in our yard and around the house today, he was his normal funny self. I had one of his good "non druggie" friends show up today to help us and they laughed and talked. Then started a bonfire and sat around and talked.

I'm hopeful but am primed to act when or if there is a return to his previous condition. I believe that my lack of emotion (I'm ridiculously emotional lately) freaked him out a bit and clued him in that Dad isn't playing around.

I'm so thankful to all of you that have responded to me in my time of need. Every comment has helped me develop a plan to deal with this in a manner that I feel will help my son and allow me to maintain my sanity.

 

[dstc_99]

I would advise you to consider the court designated worker. Even though he is compliant today you have no idea how long that will last.

The CDW doesn't really put him in the system unless he screws up. They generally write up a contract for him to follow and the parent agrees to it. They give them set guidelines and the consequences should he mess up. The parent turns the kid in if he breaks the rules and the CDW institutes a punishment. From what I was told they start off mild and can increase as far as they have to. Basically it gives the kid the structure, the parent the support, and the legal system a chance to rehab a kid gently before crimes are committed (or they get caught).

It sounds harsh but your difficult child will manipulate you in ways he won't be able to with the CDW. Plus it gives you support. All those questions you are asking us can be addressed by the CDW. It takes away the guess work. They can do the dirty work if needed and keep you and difficult child out of it. They can take the text/ info and speak to the parents of the other kid who sold the drugs.

I actually signed my difficult child up for the program the day before she moved out to live elsewhere. I needed support and I wasn't scaring her. She knew she could run to my parents at any time. That's what she did and it really screwed up the family. I wish now I hadn't let her go and had made the CDW help us out.

 

[rc606]

I would advise you to consider the court designated worker. Even though he is compliant today you have no idea how long that will last.

The CDW doesn't really put him in the system unless he screws up. They generally write up a contract for him to follow and the parent agrees to it. They give them set guidelines and the consequences should he mess up. The parent turns the kid in if he breaks the rules and the CDW institutes a punishment. From what I was told they start off mild and can increase as far as they have to. Basically it gives the kid the structure, the parent the support, and the legal system a chance to rehab a kid gently before crimes are committed (or they get caught).

It sounds harsh but your difficult child will manipulate you in ways he won't be able to with the CDW. Plus it gives you support. All those questions you are asking us can be addressed by the CDW. It takes away the guess work. They can do the dirty work if needed and keep you and difficult child out of it. They can take the text/ info and speak to the parents of the other kid who sold the drugs.

I actually signed my difficult child up for the program the day before she moved out to live elsewhere. I needed support and I wasn't scaring her. She knew she could run to my parents at any time. That's what she did and it really screwed up the family. I wish now I hadn't let her go and had made the CDW help us out.

Thanks, I've already spoken to them and am meeting with them on Monday morning to discuss options. I wanted he and I to try and work this out together so this is his last opportunity to comply. I think he realizes that I've removed emotion from the equation and will not be manipulated.

As for dealing with the dealers, one of my dear friends is on the state police's drug interdiction team. He's working on handling the drug issue at our high school, now that he has the texts. Thanks for your advice, we are on the same page

 

[rc606]

Have had two good days with difficult child and am optimistic about the future because he asked me what ideas I had to help him gets his grades back in line. That said, I'm expecting him to get a little squirrely when I leave town on business tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

 

[Lil]

Praying for you and him. I replied more about my own situation on my own thread in response to your post there. I really wish I'd done more when my son was your son's age. You are right to be proactive.

 

[hopeandjoy66]

Here is a link to the acronyms. difficult child is tongue in cheek. "Gift from God"
http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/board-abbreviations-acronyms.8/#axzz37dNSps5R

Thinking about you and your family.

 

[rc606]

Well, today has officially become the worst day of my life. Things were improving with difficult child last week, then on Friday he disappeared again, had the state police pick him up. Then today he refused to go out with me (not going to leave him in the house alone) he began screaming at me and saying that he will not be controlled, etc. He was holding a small kettle and acted like he was going to hit me with it. I looked at him and told him to put it down, which he did. Then shoved me and hit me in the face. I defended myself and held him on the ground until he calmed down and then let him up. He went to his room and packed and left.

I immediately called the state police and they picked him up and now he's been arrested for assault and runaway. They are going to put him in a boot camp program, which I pray will be good for him. I'm just sick over this. The state police just called and said that they were taking him to the hospital because he was complaining of a headache and nausea.

 

[Childofmine]

Rc, I went back and quickly read the thread again to refresh my memory about you and your son. What I saw as I read is a loving father who is trying everything he can think of to love his son.

Looking at the situation, about which I know you are sick at heart, I am thankful he is still 17 and that he is going to the hospital.

He is obviously doesn't like anybody or anything right now. He is 17. He is using drugs. He is out of control.

You can't reason with him right now. I think a boot camp, a good one, is right where he needs to be. He needs time, and space, and distance, and other people to help him see right from wrong. He needs to be away from drugs.

I know you are sick at the altercation, but I see a possible better outcome for him right now because he is going where he can be safe, he will have to submit to others' rules and he can't get high. All good things.

Try hard to take a deep breath (saying this with compassion and having been there), take a longer view if you can, and rest into the knowledge that for right now, he is somewhere safe, in the hospital. That is a good thing.

You are a good dad. This isn't about you. Take care of you right now. Hang in there.

 

[wakeupcall]

I'm so sorry, rc. Perhaps he will get some real help at the hospital. He sounds so very unstable and maybe they can stabilize him before releasing him. No one sees what we see, as parents. My difficult child never hit me, but pushed, etc.; that's why everyone decided he need to live with his father when we divorced instead of with me. Of course, I've never heard the end of it from ex. Anyway, I really feel for you. I know you are heart-broken. The disappointment I feel is immense and I know you feel the same. Keep posting.

 

[rc606]

I will say that had it not been for the guidance and advice of the good people here, today would have gone much worse. I've gotten the authorities involved early and his drug use and defiant attitude are documented. I just wanted to legally protect myself and family.

He asked the trooper if he could press charges against me and the trooper said to him, "that's not how this goes son". Hopefully he'll learn that he can't get belligerent and defiant every time he doesn't get his way in life. I've tried to be a good Father to him, and yes today has me sickened to the core.

Thanks for the support

 

[dstc_99]

I am gal to hear you are safe and that he is safe as well. It is unfortunate that we have to do things like this. It's even worse that we have to worry about protecting ourselves legally when it involves our own children.

 

[toughlovin]

RC I am sorry you are going through this. It is an awful position to be in and of course you are besides yourself with worry about him. You are not alone in having gone through this kind of thing although it may feel like it at times.

Hopefully being involved in the legal system will scare him and be a real wake up call for him. You really cant get through life disobeying all the rules and not showing others respect. It doesnt work and hopefully he will get this.

And although he may be angry and hate your right now that does not mean he will feel that way forever. I know my son has felt that way about me in the past, we still have a relationship now.

 

[Lil]

RC, I am so very sorry to hear this and for all you are going through. At 17 our son left twice. Once after we caught him high as a kite and once after we confronted him upon learning he'd stolen from us. Both times he was gone a week. We let him go and didn't call the police for a couple reasons...In my state at 17 they are adults for criminal charges, but minors for everything else. All you can do is declare them incorrigible and put them in the system, usually foster care if all they do is run off. He was never violent toward us and we were softer on him than we should have been. In retrospect, it might have been much better to have come down harder on him. I think you did the right thing. It's clear you love your son and want what is best, but he cannot be allowed to be violent toward you or anyone else. I'm praying for you both.