A View From The Other Side (Fairly Long)

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I do know that Rush has a problem with opiates, but never heard of it causing any hearing problems. Maybe he made the mistake of listening to one of his own shows? Within 5 minutes of listening to that man speak, I am looking for the quickest escape, even if that means a quick stab to my ear drums.


I am glad that opiate addiction is getting much more attention lately. Though, there is an important distinction between a junkie, and a person on long term pain management. On numerous other forums, I have talked to people who didn't even know that their medication was addictive. They would search for the cause of their horrible discomfort, and it isn't until they describe the symptoms that I tell them they are experiencing withdrawal. Usually floored them. They never abused their medication. Never took a milligram more than what the doctor called for. Sometimes even skipping days if they felt better. Doctor never prepared them for this. That is physical dependency, NOT addiction. Important distinction. For those people, quitting is not really an option. They have no mental or emotional stake in the drug, as an addict does. They just suck it up, feel like garbage for a week, and that's that. But recently, it is becoming a more understood problem. Tightening laws about how much a doctor can rx, how much and when a pharmacy can refill, etc.

Though, that shot the prices right up... A good thing, no doubt, but not if you're an active junkie. I used to buy the 30mg IR oxycodone pills for 10 a pop, and sell them for 17-20 a pop. PROFIT! The profit went directly up my nose, of course. Now those same pills for for 25-30 at wholesale, and 35+ at retail. The downside of this change is the rise of heroin use. Heroin is dirt cheap. And strong. Strong enough to satiate an addict of oxycodone, regardless of the amount they were taking. For awhile. Then tolerance builds...

God, what a shitty way to live.

 

[BusynMember]

Lol on limbaigh listening to his own shows and going deaf.
I never listen to him, bit I read that this is why he went deaf. The oxycotin abuse. It was specifically mentioned. That is the only time I heard of oxycotin and deafness so I was just curious if its true or a well known consequence. Thanks for your answer. And the laugh.
Big problem. Doctors DONT always tell you that a drug can be addictive OR cause you to have to taper carefully if you dont want to learn what a brain zap is. I feel there should be a law where the prescribing doctor has to tell you every pro and con about a prescribed drug. Then, and only then, can we make informed decisions.
My psychlatric medications saved me from death. I had a serious death wish, depression, a detailed plan and even letters to my loved ones. My psychiatric drugs that saved my life are ironically both almost impossible to withdraw from. I want to be on these medications until I die because they help me. I dont take them to get high and have never once taken more than the prescribed dose. I dont drink or mix them with anything more than Tylenol. But the improvement in my life sinse taking them is besides the point. I still had a right to know all that the doctor knew about them.
I was so sick im sure I would have taken them anyway. It was them, ECT or dying. I feel so normal now that im grateful that these medications exist. But I was still withheld information.
To avoid a long medications discussion I am not going to name my medications or discuss them with anyone here. I need them like a diabetic needs insulin and I hate that drugged feeling and never had it with my medications. I sure dont get a high from them either. But I can function and not think about how much I want to die. So im not asking for advice or opinions...I have done my research.
Having said that, I still think all patients should be verbally informed on each medication. Then we can truly make a choice. I'm sure I would have said yes anyways, but its nice to be respected as a patient.

 

[GoingNorth]

I'm dependent on Temazepam and Lorazepam courtesty of a psychiatrist 10 years ago who told me that "if you take them as prescribed, don't take them to get high, and don't exceed the prescribed dosage, you won't get addicted"

Like a fool, I believed him. It wasn't until decided to run out of both benzos (I had refills) because I wanted to get off of them. All hell broke loose and I had the mother of all panic attacks and wound up in the hospital. They were nice enough to give me a shot of valium, which stopped the withdrawals nearly instantly and kept me OK for most of the next day while I ran out and refilled my scripts.

When I told my new psychiatrist my whole sad story,she had a fit. She told me to continue taking the medications even though I'm dependent on them, because she feels that right now, a mild benzo habit is safer than putting someone with myhealth/mental health issues through benzo withdrawal, even medically supervised.

She is also the one who told me that benzo withdrawal can be lethal.

Of course, I've been taking the same dose temazepam all alone, and have had my Ativan increased once over the year.

I don't get high from them. I suppose if i took enough of them, I'd black out and do stupid things, but I take them because temazepam helps me sleep, and Ativan and therapy keep me from walking around in a constant state of fight or flight.

 

[BusynMember]

Bingo, GN. I need to be able to leave my hoise and live a normal life. I have refusedbmsny medications if the drugged me st all. I hate that feeling. This invludesball mood stabilizers. They made me feel doped up and numb. I wont live that way. Many antidepressants gave me scary side effects. I like my currrnt regiment and frrl normal. Off of my mrdd I do not frrl normal. I feel suicidal and can't function. I never want to be that way again.

Pot makes me spaced, depressedband paranoid.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Rush is one of the biggest hypocrites on Earth. Before his addiction scandal broke, he had not ONE kind word for or about drug addiction, and drug addicts. Referring to us as weak, and morally bankrupt. So, I laughed my ass off at that news. Guy is an enormous dick. My uncle LOVES his, though. I walked into the living room yesterday, and baby was watching her TV, while he listened to Rush. I had to ask "Damn, what did the baby do to deserve THIS cruel and unusual punishment?". I REALLY do not like the man, or what he stands for.

I didn't mean to say that people on pain managment were addicts, or anything. I know that they need it to maintain quality of life. It'd just be nice if the doctors properly explained the nuances of the drugs they prescribe. So they don't lose their when the are out, wondering why they feel like death.

Suboxone and Methadone doctors are even worse. In order to work with Suboxone, they require extra education. Which is an 8 hour course, in which they are supposed to learn the ins and outs of the drug, and addiction itself. Most of the time, that is not enough. I am seeing doctors start patients at 32mg+ a day, Which is absurd. First of all, the drug does have a ceiling. It works, but doesn't work BETTER with a higher dose than truly needed. There is no benefit to that kind of dosage, and poses health issues of its own. My doctor wanted to start me at 24mg a day. I decided to start at 8mg a day, and even that was probably excessive. He also didn't understand the very basics of a taper. Not once did he suggest I lower my dose. He was perfectly content with me 120 dollar monthly visit, and had no reason to stop it.

As I am sure you are aware, you need to be careful with the benzos. As far as I know, there has never been a death attributed to benzos alone. I took an ass load one time. Didn't remember 3 entire days of my life, but that was that. Mixing benzos is what is actually dangerous. Mixing it with opiates or alcohol can prove fatal. Detox from benzos can cause seizures, and even death. Similar to alcohol withdrawal. I wouldn't recommend a cold turkey plan without doctor supervision. As awful as opiate withdrawal is, it alone wont kill you. You might wish that it would, but it wont.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

And SSRIs shouldn't be a problem. It merely balances the chemicals in the brain. People who need it need it.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Wonderful thread. Thank you DarkwingPsyduck for your insights, your truths are so valuable for us parents.

A thought I had while reading is that with your experience, hard earned wisdom and your ability to write in such a candid, insightful and authentic way, you might consider writing and/or teaching.......or a substance abuse counselor....., public speaking.....a therapist.....some way in which you utilize your experience as a way of being of service. I am a believer in the idea that we all have gifts to share based on our unique talents, talents often born out of adversity. You have a creative and fascinating way of using words which are easy to read and also inspiring. You have considerable skill in communication and you've developed depth, compassion and perceptive insights, which can be a bi-product of growing up in a dysfunctional environment...... if we can find our way out. And you have. (I come from a highly dysfunctional background too.)

When my son in law committed suicide, my granddaughter was only 3. I vividly recall her therapist at the time telling me that we just don't know the destiny of an individual, that my granddaughter may grow up to be a therapist who specializes in helping children who had a parent commit suicide. It gave me an additional insight into the tragedy, which I held onto tightly. When my granddaughter was 13, the therapist we chose for her confided in me that her father had committed suicide and that was why she had become a therapist..... Interesting connection..... My granddaughter is now 20 years old and has remarkable insight and compassion, often she is the one her friends turn to with their problems. It remains to be seen what direction she will go in, but her past, with all it's trauma and loss, offers her a unique perspective and adds to the richness of who she is.

You're at the beginning of your life's journey and from here you have many, many choices........I have a feeling you'll thrive and find deep joy and peace along the way.......

 

[GoingNorth]

Well, what I really needed, and am trying to find a therapist who takes my insurance, is CBT. I did it for years and it was very helpful.

My former shrink up North is sort of a pill pusher. He's also the only county services shrink, and the only one who takes my ins. I went with county services down here in Milwaukee because all the private psychiatrists had huge waiting lists and/or didn't accept my ins. I can't pay 450 for intake and 1st exam, and then 250 for regular medication mgmt exams. The psychiatrist I have now is very good and backs me when I'm reticent about medications.

The only way I can swing my medications is that my husband was a disabled vet who died of his disability. I draw a pension as a result, and also have VA medical insurance +medicare due to my being disabled. Part of the VA ins is a FREE medications by mail pharmacy. My shrink has been kind enough to carry me on samples to get the doses straightened out, and once we know a medication is a good one, writes a 3 mos RX so I can get them for free. Very good when your Latuda retails for about 900 a month, and your % is around 250 a month.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Wonderful thread. Thank you DarkwingPsyduck for your insights, your truths are so valuable for us parents.

A thought I had while reading is that with your experience, hard earned wisdom and your ability to write in such a candid, insightful and authentic way, you might consider writing and/or teaching.......or a substance abuse counselor....., public speaking.....a therapist.....some way in which you utilize your experience as a way of being of service. I am a believer in the idea that we all have gifts to share based on our unique talents, talents often born out of adversity. You have a creative and fascinating way of using words which are easy to read and also inspiring. You have considerable skill in communication and you've developed depth, compassion and perceptive insights, which can be a bi-product of growing up in a dysfunctional environment...... if we can find our way out. And you have. (I come from a highly dysfunctional background too.)

When my son in law committed suicide, my granddaughter was only 3. I vividly recall her therapist at the time telling me that we just don't know the destiny of an individual, that my granddaughter may grow up to be a therapist who specializes in helping children who had a parent commit suicide. It gave me an additional insight into the tragedy, which I held onto tightly. When my granddaughter was 13, the therapist we chose for her confided in me that her father had committed suicide and that was why she had become a therapist..... Interesting connection..... My granddaughter is now 20 years old and has remarkable insight and compassion, often she is the one her friends turn to with their problems. It remains to be seen what direction she will go in, but her past, with all it's trauma and loss, offers her a unique perspective and adds to the richness of who she is.

You're at the beginning of your life's journey and from here you have many, many choices........I have a feeling you'll thrive and find deep joy and peace along the way.......

Thank you for the kind words. It is something I may consider doing, but not until I have a stronger foundation. I am still relatively new in recovery, and there are things that I am still missing. My base is not all that strong. I am still making mistakes, though I am working on it. For example, I have come to an understanding and acceptance in regard to my mother, but I still avoid thinking or talking about my father. If you have nothing nice to say about someone, don't say anything. Hard to get through it. At least my mom had redeeming qualities, and never set out to hurt me or any of my siblings.


As much as I would enjoy helping, there are people much more qualified than I, and I would be terrified of being detrimental to somebody else's recovery.

 

[recoveringenabler]

You've already helped people, right on this site!

I understand waiting until you have a stronger foundation, that makes sense.....it sounds as if being home with your uncle and niece is a safe and healing experience for you.....only you will know when the time is right to venture out.....

I am 66 years old and I am still making mistakes and still working on it and still recovering from my crazy background! We're all a work in progress. All any of us can do is share our truths, and you're doing that. And, while you're doing that, people are reading along and having insights, learning, understanding, recognizing and healing.

Take it slow and build on your new found emerging Self......I just wanted to share my perceptions of you.....sometimes it's hard to find a balance between the mistakes we've made and our own value. We all make mistakes, that's how we (hopefully) learn......make amends as best you know how, forgive yourself, allow yourself to see your unique value and move on. (It's taken me a lifetime to figure that out......)

 

[BusynMember]

Ssris can be murder to withdraw from..im on one. But I never plan on going off of it..if I wanted to, it wouldnt be fun.

by the way agree on limbaugh. I was in a cab once and the driver had him on. I politely asked if he could change the channel. He barked "NO!" I got out and walked away. I waited for another cab rather than here limbaugh. First cabbie never bothered to ask for money...lol.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Ssris can be murder to withdraw from..im on one. But I never plan on going off of it..if I wanted to, it wouldnt be fun.

by the way agree on limbaugh. I was in a cab once and the driver had him on. I politely asked if he could change the channel. He barked "NO!" I got out and walked away. I waited for another cab rather than here limbaugh. First cabbie never bothered to ask for money...lol.

So it isn't just me? Thank goodness... My feelings about that man have NOTHING to do with politics. I am not especially interested or concerned with politics, though that probably isn't a good thing. There really just wasn't a whole lot of time to devote to that kind of stuff. But I HATE hypocrites. Especially the incredibly loud, judgmental ones. The man has made millions off of his dishonesty, and his hypocrisy. If it were his choice, addicts would just be thrown away in the garbage. With absolutely NO opportunity for improvement. I have absolutely no patience for him, and his intentionally offensive ignorance.

Thank you again, recoveringenabler. Yeah, I am not closed off to the idea of trying to directly help other addicts, I just want to be in a place where I am truly qualified to do so first. An addict with a piss poor sponsor isn't long for recovery. Even if it came from a good place, it wouldn't be fair to try to support them before I can truly support myself. I am grateful for the opportunity to help a few people, here. I didn't expect to really be able to. My first post was more of a thank you for giving me a glimpse of the parents' point of view, which was invaluable to my decision to put a stop to the pain I was causing the only 2 human beings alive who truly give a single, solitary about me. So, I really do hope I can pay that back as much as possible. But I would stress that I am NO better than any of your own children. All those horrible things they do and say, the things that keep you up at night, I have done and said the same to my own loved ones. I am no less guilty of those. The only thing that really sets me apart from them is that I have been fortunate enough to gain some clean time, which has obviously opened up my eyes to the real pain I was causing. And I am no sociopath, not without the drugs, and I don't think any of your kids are, either. There is no addict's guide to addiction. Nobody sets out with the goal of becoming a junkie, manipulator, lying thief. But it is exactly what we become. But we can always come back from that. None of us are lost causes.

 

[BusynMember]

I have many reasons I cant stand RL...lol. its a hodge podge of reasons and hypocrisy is but one...lol. I wont listen to his show.

If you ever feel ready, I also think you'd be a great drug counselor. You lnow your situation best though. You explain things well.

 

[InsaneCdn]

You are 25. With something like a year clean/sober. You've "lost" about 10 years of growing up, of learning life skills, and of developing a career. That doesn't mean it won't happen. It will just take longer. I'm pretty sure that you won't be where you are today, in, say, another five years.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

You are 25. With something like a year clean/sober. You've "lost" about 10 years of growing up, of learning life skills, and of developing a career. That doesn't mean it won't happen. It will just take longer. I'm pretty sure that you won't be where you are today, in, say, another five years.

Rereading my post, and a few others, I realize I have been placing the blame elsewhere, and I shouldn't be. While I may have had some decent excuses for my lack of education, maturity, and skill before, I do not anymore. I now have EVERY opportunity you guys have provided for your own children, and it is up to me to make use of it. And I intend to. Not entirely sure how at this point, though... It is so hard to find something I would really like to do. As I said, I am not particularly skilled, and I have just missed out in so much this last 9 years. When I try to think about something I would really like to do, I come up blank. It wasn't a question I ever bothered to pose myself. Until rather recently, I didn't even have a plan to be alive. Not that I planned to die, I just kind of assumed I would. I should have, by all accounts.

At this moment, however, even working isn't in the cards. My aunt works 2 jobs, 80+ hours a week if you consider travel time from Reno to Carson and back numerous times a week. She is rarely home, and when she is, she sleeps. Something she should be doing much more often. Then my uncle works a day job, and does after hour drug testing. So he is on call all night. Somebody must be here when he does get a call for the baby. And that, of course, falls to me. Not complaining. I love the kid, and there's nothing I wouldn't do for my aunt and uncle, but it makes working kind of impossible. We start her in daycare in a few months, though.... The jobs I have had have all been heavy warehouse work. I will go back to that until I can think of something I would like to do.

 

[Lil]

It sounds like you do have a plan and you have a very mature attitude about your role with the baby and with your family. You are still young. There are plenty of people who don't know what they're going to do with their lives that are older than you. Hang in there.

 

[kt4394]

Darkwing,
JMO, but after reading your posts, I cannot believe that you could not do anything you set your mind to. We are struggling with our son and finding him any and all help. A mentor has been mentioned (through the courts). Among other things, I think this is something that you would be so good at. Your intelligence, clarity and experience give you wisdom beyond your years. I don't know if there's money in it, but I bet you would have success with a blog. There must be a way to make money from your advice and understanding. Especially in the substance abuse/mental health counseling field, an area that certainly does not have enough resources or help available to the hordes of people who need and want it. Be confident in your abilities and yourself. You are an amazing person and have so much to offer. I thank you for the insight you have brought to this site and I'm sure others feel the same.

 

[Nancy]

Ssris can be murder to withdraw from..im on one. But I never plan on going off of it..if I wanted to, it wouldnt be fun.

My daughter has been on paxil for years due to anxiety, probably caused by younger daughter. She has tried to come off them many times and can't, withdrawal is very difficult and anxiety comes back with a vengeance. She has always been under the care of a doctor when she was trying to withdraw and goes very slowly but no luck.

 

[Lil]

@DarkwingPsyduck I just want you to know, we posted a thread on the Healthy Living board with simple recipes and cooking tips. In case you missed it...

 

[BusynMember]

Namcy, I hear ypu. Paxil was so transforming for me that I never tried ti go off of it. But if I wanted to I doubt t I could. If I had known this before tsking it, maybe I would have said no to it. But thats a real iffy subnect. Paxil doesnt work for everyone. For me it made me well for the first time e er and since. It was a magic pill. It didnt make me feel high or dulled...I felt.normal for the first time. It made me capable of further helping myself with therapy too.

But do I still think we should be told everything?

Yes, I do.