Adult daughter stole entire life savings

[jeanne in CA]

Hi "Tiredof33", thank you so much for your kind words. I absolutely cannot imagine the rollercoaster you and others in this forum have endured as you try and try again to make things work. In a way, I feel lucky. Our daughter (so far) has never promised to change because of course, she denies everything even in the face of proof. That is one of the reasons I did not want to see her, knowing that everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie, I knew that she would try everything to persuade me that this was all a big mixup. She tried that the last time we saw her to no avail.

People who judge you for cutting you son off are simply ignorant. I avoid people like that like the plague. They are the same ones who would say, "I would never send my child to jail." That makes them ignorant and selfish in my opinion. They would prefer to have a thief out on the streets victimizing others? My husband and I decided early on that if we did not do this, any future victims would be on us. Once we knew who she really was, we knew what we had to do. We also know that greater pain is to come, but once again, we have no choice. It will break our hearts.

The past fourteen months have brought tremendous changes for my husband and me. Besides the devastation of knowing that she stole and squandered our entire life savings that we had worked so hard for, we have lost our daughter. One could reasonably argue that we never had her. I struggle with that. I know there are questions regarding when she turned into who she is today or whether she was ever who I thought she was. I have accepted the fact that I may never have the answers. I have learned more about the world of finance than I ever dreamed I would need to know. I have learned how to send money orders when creditors could no longer accept my checks. I have learned how to find an attorney and how very expensive they are. I have learned that I have great strength and stamina, and even when I feel weak, I am not. I have learned that the cumulative effects of stress and trauma results in physical, mental, and emotional turmoil that will be a long time healing. I have learned that betrayal makes me cynical and changes my view of the world. I wonder if I am doomed for the rest of my life to ask myself every time I see babies or small children, “Which one will be one of those?” And, I am ashamed to admit, even to myself, that when I see my friends with their loving, honest, and hard-working daughters, I feel pangs of jealousy and I find myself asking, “Why couldn’t have I had one of those?” and “What did I do wrong?”
I realize that these questions are useless and I need to concentrate on the here and now. I am neither the master of my daughter’s fate nor captain of her soul. Only she is. As her mother, all I can do is do the things that might one day help her see that.
I was almost thirty-nine when my daughter was born and always thought that her birth was part of God’s plan to comfort to me. Before she was born, my mother, grandmother, and I were inseparable. The three of us did so many things together, and I simply loved being with them. Shortly after I lost my grandmother, I became pregnant with my daughter and once again I was part of a threesome. She, my mom and I did many of the same things together that my mom, my grandmother and I used to do. After I lost my mom in 2010, my daughter became became pregnant with my granddaughter. Once again I was part of a threesome. Even though my own role had changed throughout the years, this pattern seemed so cosmic that I believed that it had to be the result of divine intervention.
After her birth in 1989, my life was divided into “before her and after her”. I was the type of mother who saved all of her baby clothes and attached little notes to them about who gave them to her and when. I kept her dolls in their original boxes when she outgrew them, and made a video of every first day of school. I knew that as the same sex parent, what I did and how I behaved would have a huge influence on her and I was constantly aware of that fact. I didn’t go places where she could not go, I wanted to be with her and she seemed to love being around me. I never drank alcohol so she could see that she, too, could say no when she was old enough to decide for herself. I tried never to say or do anything without considering how it would impact her. I was constantly aware of the example I set for her, the memories I created for her, and the impact I would have on her entire life. Given that, I still ask myself if I was such an influence on her, how I could not at least partly be responsible for how she has turned out? Still working on that.

 

[Childofmine]

People who judge you for cutting you son off are simply ignorant.

Now, anytime I hear myself say, "I would never___________________" I try to stop and draw those words back before they even leave my mouth, because that is very likely the very thing I will be doing in the months and years to come.

It is almost prophetic.

Yes, people who judge others for anything.....are ignorant and so many other things, including just not there yet, arrogant, naive and holier than thou. They are both good things and not-so-good things.

Unfortunately, I am often one of those people and I am working on that character defect I have of judging other people.

Warm hugs to you and to Tiredof33 both! You both are teaching me. Thank you.

 

[witzend]

Jumping ahead of what I have read here, I had to comment about "can they love, as in love their children". I believe that they feel that their children are an extension of themselves, like a purse or a pair of shoes. They don't see where they end and where their children begin. Clearly your daughter didn't see where your money ended and hers began. She thinks that everything she wants is hers and she loves everything that is hers, which is everything she wants.

 

[jeanne in CA]

COM- I totally understand what you mean. I can't recall the last time I said, "I would never..." I could never imagine doing what I have had to do. And for those who do say that, I just think, "just you wait until you are really tested." May they always live in peace with their children.

Witzend- as convoluted as that is, your description totally resonates. I could just not make sense of it. It is so convoluted I think I have to write it down to even remember it!

When I analyze the specifics of her actions, it occurs to me that the theft came in all shapes and sizes, in this case, from a few hundred dollars from one account to over $45,000 from another. It occurs to me that she stole from us using every way possible without a weapon. Her methods were varied and creative. They include, but may not be limited to the following:
1. She stole our checks, made them out to herself and then forged our signatures on the bottom.
2. She took out payday loans in our names and then emptied out our accounts before the loans could be paid back.
3. She made electronic transfers from our accounts to hers.
4. Stole retirement checks from our mailbox and deposited them into her own account.
5. She forged written withdrawal forms to empty out our accounts.
6. She impersonated me on the telephone to request that my funds be sent to her.
7. She changed my contact information on accounts to intercept checks and statements and take over accounts.
8. She took out lines of credit and cash advances on bank accounts.
9. She charged thousands of dollars on credit cards and Paypal accounts.
10. She put stop payments on my checks.
11. She stole my debit cards and withdrew thousands of dollars from my checking accounts.
12. She took money I gave her to pay some of our bills when my checks kept bouncing, kept the money, and left the bills unpaid.
It is a heart-breaking list. One that demonstrates creativity and determination.

Thank you all again for your posts and your support. I have spent a very long time without being able to talk about this with anyone who even remotely can understand.

 

[DammitJanet]

I have to say she is inventive if nothing else. I consider myself a smart woman but I would have never even thought of all that and I have a background in fraud investigation! You have my utmost respect in how you are handling all this. I just read your signature and am somewhat intrigued...retired from state govt and now write business books? How interesting! I worked for county govt. I dont write business books...lol

Layne, I appreciate that this is a completely outrageous situation but could you please refrain from saying "Jesus Christ" because it offends some of the members here. I would really appreciate it. We want to be a warm and non-threatening place for everyone here.

 

[jeanne in CA]

"DammitJanet", yes she is inventive. I had no idea how to do all this stuff and neither did the dectective. I laughed one day when I told him I learned more every day and he responded that he learned more just by reading my emails. We are very lucky that we have him.

Of course, she couldn’t steal all our money without repeatedly covering up her actions. So, she forged hundreds of letters, emails, documents and bank statements to quell the perfectly legitimate outcry from banks, stores, mortgage companies, credit card agencies, and utility companies from whom she was routinely intercepting our checks and payments---to calm our rising fears that something was seriously amiss---so that she could continue to steal with impunity. She impersonated banking officials in online, in voice mail, and in regular correspondence. She spent literally years of time stealing, spending and covering up, all while pretending to be the loving daughter who was gravely concerned our financial problems and my increasing mental anguish over the discrepancies between reality and her furnished and totally fictitious reports that cleverly covered her ongoing theft. She did all these things, not out of necessity, not out of deprivation, not even out of hate and revenge. Amazingly, until faced with absolute proof of her duplicity at the end, we never suspected her. So much for mother's intuition.
She knew she had a safety net with us. She knew if she had needed money she could have asked us and we would have given it to her. However, she also knew, because of the values we tried to teach her, that we would not have financed a lifestyle replete with designer bags and clothes, $1000 hair appointments, and regular trips to Las Vegas, all while she refused to go to school or work. I believe that in the final analysis, it will be determined that she stole simply because she wanted to. I believe this is a classic case of a young woman who had everything; beauty, brains, a devoted husband, gorgeous baby, and parents who loved her with everything they had. It was simply not enough.
Who was she really? Even now knowing what I know about her, I still struggle to understand how she could lie so much and so easily. For example, I have learned that she constantly lied about her whereabouts. She staarted her own photography business which I knew to be true because I met some of her clients. However, I later found out that she wasn’t at photography gigs when she said she was, yet she would describe the people she met, what they paid her, and how happy the work made her.

She claimed to us and to others that she graduated from our State University. I have obtained undisputed proof that she never even attended a class there. Yet, she told me about specific classes she was taking, told me about a call she received from their administrative office asking her to come in and pick up her diploma, and told me specifically which of her classes she had taken on-line. She told me about how frustrated she was when she “had to sit out a semester” because “budget cuts at the university meant not all of the classes she needed to graduate were being offered then”. She even lied about how she met her husband, telling me she met him while they were both attending the local community college. In actuality, they met at the local mall. So many of her lies were totally unnecessary. I simply cannot wrap my head around it all.
Her life was full of layered complexities. Everything she did was calculated to benefit her and support a Kim Kardashian-type nouveau-riche lifestyle---AND keep up her multiple pretenses of being the good wife, good mother, good daughter, good employee, good family member, and over all good person. All the while she was living with a complete lack of conscience, empathy or remorse. Or, if she felt any of those things, the feelings were never strong enough to stop her.

As for me, yes, I worked in the social services area for 30 years and was a state deputy director for 14 of those years. Very stressful job that now seems like a day at the beach in comparison. Once retired, I started teaching at the university part time and writing. Since then have published two books and numerous articles, all on topics relative to workplace issues. The third book was in the works but, as you can imagine, has been put on hold. As for you, county government is a tough gig. Caught between the state, the feds, and the public they serve. My hat is off to you.

 

[DammitJanet]

Wow what a coincidence...I worked for county social services! Actually at the end I was a county liaison between Dept of Ag, Inspector General and Social Services because I was a fraud investigator.

As far as your dtr, I will be honest, I believe after all you have described that she is a sociopath. What stands out to me is how easily she managed to do this to everyone. I had an incident here where my cable company said I didnt pay one month. I had it on my bank statement showing that it was deducted from my account but even after I faxed that to them they wouldnt apply it to my account. They said they couldnt find it in their system so I had to repay. I cant imagine how I would have faked all that. She was good.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Jeanne, just want you to know I am here reading along...........with my own sense of incredulousness ..........and empathy for you.

It is a remarkable and sad story.

Since you are a writer, has it occurred to you, when you make it through to the end, to write this story? It would certainly help others who have been the victims of identity theft, but perhaps more important, it might be a cathartic and healing experience for you.

Sending you warm thoughts for your own sense of peace and comfort as you journey through this dark place..........

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Good Morning, jeanne in Ca.

I don't have anything to add. Sometimes, it is just a good feeling to know one of us is thinking about you, wondering how you are.

:O)

Cedar

 

[jeanne in CA]

"DammitJanet", it is truly a small world. I am sure we know some of the same people in CDSS. Public service has its challenges but I actually enjoyed most of my time there. Your cable story sounds like one of the many messes I had on a daily basis. The only difference was that our daughter would produce a bank statementment showing that our cable bill was paid except that the statement itself was fraudulent. I can't believe you had to pay yours twice!

I have come to believe that our daughter is a predator of the worst kind. I hate even saying that but how else could I interpret her actions? She is a consummate liar, always adding details and nuances and repeating the same information several times without changing stories. I know now that lies repeated over and over were more likely to seem true. I certainly didn’t doubt them. I had always heard the phrase, “Trust but verify.” I felt safe. I trusted her and the fabricated letters, emails, and statements I had from all those banks verified what she told me. It never would have occurred to me that all those things were fakes, because she always oozed such sincerity.
Her crimes were not crimes of passion. They were not the result of spur-of-the-moment thinking. Her actions took deliberation, premeditation, and planning. At the same time, I was emotionally disabled, depressed, grief-stricken due to the death of my mother and supremely anxious due to my seemingly inexplicable financial woes, which she continually countered with “those idiots in accounting have it wrong, of course it was paid, here is the confirmation number they gave me when I called for you. “ Despite her fabrications, some of the truth leaked through as the gaps between her increasing thefts and her versions of the truth widened. Negative events she couldn’t always control---angry creditors, repeated phone calls for bills not paid---continued to occupy my attention and chew up my mental capacity. I knew I had paid these bills, because I had written the checks. She would produce a “statement” from the “bank” to verify her assertions, knowing all the while that she had stolen the money and that the creditors were telling the truth. The more problems I had, the more help I needed. She not only used all of that to her advantage every day, she deliberately created it. A mother who was in a constant fog of anguish and bewilderment was far easier to fool.
The police asked me how I finally found out what she was doing. IIronically, n the end, her greed overcame her cunning and she overplayed her hand. She stole my new debit card and withdrew $400 from ATMs located in the only two places she and I had been that day. She was the only other person who had access to my purse and my card that day. That debit card was associated with my Social Security pension and I had just received it three weeks prior. At that point, I had no idea that she had drained my checking account of everything but $42.
That $400 was the tipping point that catapulted me into action, because she had clearly stolen it. I was nearly hysterical and prayed so hard that there would be a simple explanation for the missing $400. And, instead of giving me a simple explanation or at least being contrite when I confronted her, she became verbally abusive and insisted I was demented. She screamed and yelled in an angry, bullying tirade, insisting that she was the injured party and I was the ungrateful wretch that was ruining her life with my ongoing neediness and now my accusations.
It was an ugly, abusive response to my confrontation and one I could not begin to understand. Who talks to their mother like that? What on earth was going on? I had never doubted that she loved me. Why else would she try so hard to help me? Why would she always want to be with me? Why did she ask my opinion on things? Trust me with her child? Make me beautiful handmade cards for every occasion? Call or text nearly every day asking me to come and spend time with her? Yet, on that day, I felt like everything I thought I knew about her started to crumble and fall away, leaving nothing but this shell of a young woman who physically resembled my daughter but who possessed none of the beauty, the kindness, the sincerity, and simple decency I thought was so much a part of who she was. It was unbearably ugly to watch and horrifically painful.
Each day this past year, as I made one ugly discovery after another, I was hurt over and over until finally the pain was so bad I simply had to stop reacting, stop responding emotionally. I implemented a sort of mental moratorium. I was determined that I would simply deal with the facts and not think about them. I knew if I didn’t, I could not do what I had to do and I had no other options. This was a fight for my sanity, for my husband’s and my financial, emotional, and mental well being, and Andrea’s very soul. A mother does not bring a child into the world, watch her turn out like this, and blithely forgive and forget. I believe that a parent has a responsibility to hold that child accountable for her actions, to stop her wrongdoing, no matter how painful that course of action might be. It is simply a moral imperative.

"Recoveringenabler"- you suggest writing my story might help others. I am not sure how, but I appreciate the sentiment. If that were the case, I would certainly consider that at some point down the road because then it might be worth it. As for the cathartic aspect, between what I have written for the police and for my consultations with the forensic psychiatrist, I just about have that covered. lol

"Cedar"-thank you for your kind words once again.

I appreciate all of your support and encouragement.

 

[DammitJanet]

I also think this would be a fantastic book...something all parents should read.

 

[jeanne in CA]

It is going to be a long drawn-out process before our ordeal is over I feel sure. Thank you for the words of encouragement.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I was nearly hysterical and prayed so hard that there would be a simple explanation for the missing $400. And, instead of giving me a simple explanation or at least being contrite when I confronted her, she became verbally abusive and insisted I was demented. She screamed and yelled in an angry, bullying tirade, insisting that she was the injured party and I was the ungrateful wretch that was ruining her life with my ongoing neediness and now my accusations.

I am so sorry this happened to you, and to your daughter, Jeanne. I know what that feels like, when you can't believe what you know but you know, you know the other person, that person you cherish more than you cherish your life or your husband or your hopes for yourself, is, unbelievably...lying.

Right to your face, right in your heart, tearing you apart in real time.

It's that sense of betrayal that does us in. For so long a time afterwords, we are frozen in place.

Yet, on that day, I felt like everything I thought I knew about her started to crumble and fall away, leaving nothing but this shell of a young woman who physically resembled my daughter but who possessed none of the beauty, the kindness, the sincerity, and simple decency I thought was so much a part of who she was. It was unbearably ugly to watch and horrifically painful.

It is, Jeanne.

I kept having to go back to it, again and again.

That I was thinking that way about my own child caused me to question myself on every level.

I didn't even know who I was, anymore.

I could not do what I had to do and I had no other options. This was a fight for my sanity, for my husband’s and my financial, emotional, and mental well being, and Andrea’s very soul. A mother does not bring a child into the world, watch her turn out like this, and blithely forgive and forget. I believe that a parent has a responsibility to hold that child accountable for her actions, to stop her wrongdoing, no matter how painful that course of action might be. It is simply a moral imperative.

It takes more courage than we knew existed in all the world, to take the actions we are required to take where our own children are concerned.

It must have been horrific to remember what your daughter's response was ~ the accusations she made about your mental state and your feelings for her.

And then to find, again and again and again, beyond shadow of any doubt, that you were right, that the worst thing was true.

Cedar

 

[witzend]

Yes, the part where they turn on you and call you such awful names as though you have set out to sabotage their lives when in reality you're just trying to get on with yours and you're clueless as to the damage they are doing to you is like a knife in the heart. I wish I had walked away when I said that I would the first time. Maybe things could have eventually been repaired but I kept thinking that somehow if I tried harder I could just fix it. Then she'd be pleasant again all the while stabbing me in the back and using me to use others.

Jeanne, I don't know what the future holds in store for you and your family. I do think you are doing the right thing. At this point in my life my family is so damaged that I don't even talk about it anymore. I don't trust anyone. The old timers here know the story, and it's too convoluted to try to explain without upsetting myself beyond healthiness. I am glad that you found us, and hope that everything works out for you.

 

[jeanne in CA]

Scent of Cedar and Witzend, my oh my, do you guys really get it. It is just the most awful thing in the world yet, we have absolutely no choice but to get through it. I have set a personal goal for myself. I have decided that I want to handle this situation from beginning to end in a way that anyone else who encounters challenges of this nature can look and say, "That was the way to do it." That may sound stupid but it helps keep me on track when I want to give up or give in.

I know exactly what you mean about doubting yourself and your sanity. I still have doubt myself occasionally. When that happens, I just remind myself that I could not have tried harder, could not have loved harder, and am still trying the best I can to achieve the best outcome for everyone.

Thank you both so much for your encouragement and kind words.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

we have absolutely no choice but to get through it.

I have set a personal goal for myself.

That may sound stupid but it helps keep me on track when I want to give up or give in.

I still have doubt myself occasionally. When that happens, I just remind myself that I could not have tried harder, could not have loved harder, and am still trying the best I can to achieve the best outcome for everyone.

Very strong, centered responses.

There is nothing stupid about anything we can do, or can learn to do, to keep ourselves strong and centered and moving forward ~ not just where our kids are concerned, but where our self concepts are concerned. Failure after failure with our difficult child kids often leaves us with so many questions about what happened and how it happened, and whether we might have handled things differently, that we lose faith in ourselves.

That certainly happened, to me.

I love the part where you say you could not have tried harder, could not have loved harder, and are still doing your best to achieve the best outcome for everyone involved. There is strength in that for every challenge we take on.

Thank you. I awakened this morning thinking about concrete ways to become a stronger, more confident woman. This is so perfectly what I needed to see.

Cedar

 

[jeanne in CA]

Cedar, bless you for your kind words and thoughts. I cannot imagine how difficult things have been for you and your husband. The agony of trying to find, correct and repair whatever you thought might have caused your kids' problems must have occupied all of your actions and thoughts. Of course, the first thing we think of is what we must have done wrong. Luckily, I am pretty much beyond that. I firmly believe that there is simply nothing that my husband and I could have ever done to justify our daughter's actions.

I mentioned previously that in many ways, regardless of how horrific our daughter's actions have been, in many ways we have had it easier than you and so many of the others in this forum. We didn't have failure after failure trying to help her. She never made promise after promise that she would change her ways. Instead of a continuous chipping away at our hearts like so many of you have experienced, she gave us more of a sudden acid bath that we never suspected and therefore, never saw coming. It has been the most painful thing we have ever experienced, but there was never any doubt about what happened.

I met with the psychiatrist this week who has extensive experience in forensic psychiatry. Poor guy, I just go to pick his brain and he is so patient in answering my questions. He said we should prepare for the worst after the police contact her. Predicts she will show up at our door with both babies in tow pleading for us to forget everything. He said if that doesn't work, she will get desperate and threaten suicide, claiming that if we send her to jail, we are killing her. He said when that happens, simply and calmly pick up the phone and call 911 to report a suicide threat. He said if those antics don't get her what she wants, she will get really angry and tell everyone who will listen, including the police, what awful parents we were and how we continue to persecute her with our lies. I am going to do everything possible to avoid the histrionics she will put us through by seeing if the detective will put a "do not contact" order or something similar in place.

I know it is just a matter of time and I am doing everything possible to prepare.

You hang in there.

Jeanne

 

[helpangel]

Jeanne, i've been following along but not commenting because this thread hit way too close to home for me. my friends brother did similar to his grandfather; got a call from cops they had found the frame of his car he had reported stolen, it had been stripped they told him based on paperwork they found near car he needed to call his bank... gone all of it 3 businesses, life savings plus over $20,000 in debt. his grandpa got off the phone with bank and simultaneously had a stroke and a heart attack, was dead by the time the ambulance got there.

please take care of you... not just therapy but remember to drink enough water, eat properly, get enough sleep - even if need medications to be able to sleep. material possessions and money are replaceable people are not! please take care of yourself and urge your husband to do the same.

you are in my thoughts and prayers today and know that with time things will get better.

nancy

 

[recoveringenabler]

I am going to do everything possible to avoid the histrionics she will put us through by seeing if the detective will put a "do not contact" order or something similar in place.

At the first sign of any shenanigans it may be prudent to get a restraining order, so you are protected. Everything the psychiatrist said to you is what many of us here have experienced. Prepare yourself for a horrific onslaught because once the veil of illusion is lifted and the truth is revealed, their rage and venom know no bounds. You had a glimpse of that when you initially confronted her. YOU will be blamed.

continuous chipping away at our hearts like so many of you have experienced, she gave us more of a sudden acid bath that we never suspected and therefore, never saw coming.

I believe you are right about that. However we land in this pit, it is beyond anything we've ever encountered, as Cedar has mentioned, it is a devastation like no other, it is an assault at the root of who we are and what we have believed to be true and what we hold the most dear to our hearts. Coming out of that devastation is a recovery process. You may want to get your ducks in order for that recovery. Once you're not actively working towards the arrest and trial, that is likely when the real feelings will erupt, so please prepare for that event as best you can.

Many of us here suffer from what we refer to as a form of PTSD, which needs to be addressed. You will have been through a war, a battle zone, a fundament assault on what you've held the most dear. Make sure you prepare for your own 'soft place to land' once the war is over.

Hang in there Jeanne, my thoughts and prayers are with you..............

 

[MeNotHappy]

Hi, I'm new here and wanted to know how to share my story....