Advice needed

[scent of cedar]

You and your husband are NOT helping her by allowing her to do this to you. She MUST learn how the real world works if she is to EVER find real happiness and success.

If you love her, let her go.

While many of us need help at age 19, if we are ungrateful and refuse to follow even basic rules, we NEED to be sent out to figure things out for ourselves.

I have friends who didn't have this help and had their own apartments and paid for everything themselves, and they made it. I know a LOT of people who did this. It was a LOT of hard work and cheap living, but it was possible then and it is possible now.

...if she wants to live the lifestyle of a young adult who refuses to work hard or earn money or be responsible and considerate, PLEASE do her a favor, do yourself and your husband a favor, and allow this. Send her out into the world to go live this lifestyle.

If my difficult child can get to this point, I firmly believe that any of our kids can and will.

Excellent post, Susiestar.

difficult child son posted today that he has not been working, and that there are a host of other problems, as well. I needed to be reminded of all the things you've posted to Rush, too. Even, and maybe especially, the part about the grands.

You are right. It is the right and loving thing to expect the kids to figure it out for themselves, as every adult must do, and to accept their choice to live poor for what it is: their choice.

Hard to do that, though.

But we have pulled that child out of mess after mess, and somehow, he never does quite manage to create a decent lifestyle for himself and his family. So much of being able to admit that, for good or for bad, the kids are doing what they want to has to do with where we are in our own process.

Cedar

 

[rush]

I think you are spot on Susie. Thanks for your great post and to the others as well. Her 10 day employment netted her about 360 bucks, some of which she was to pay to me for her car insurance. She hasn't paid it and won't. I created the deadline of Feb 28 for her to get out by, mainly because I couldn't bring myself to put her out in winter.
But you raised another point I am considering. There are some apartments here that are relatively cheap, about 350 a month. I am thinking about telling her she can move there, I will pay her bills for 2 months, then she is on her own after that. It would be hard for me to afford, but I would do it because I don't think I can wait until Feb. 28. You are exactly right, and I finally realized it too, that she is never going to grow up or take responsibility as long as she is living at home. She is going to have to be out on her own to learn the hard way. I also don't want her moving back in here after two months. I just want her to grow up and make her own way in the world. She has two job interviews early this coming week, so I hope she finds a job.
I will keep you all posted, and thanks for listening! I read a lot of the others on here's stories but I don't think I am in a position to give advice, but I like reading them!
Rush

 

[scent of cedar]

This is a very good idea, Rush. We have done that. It accomplishes two things: First, the child is out of the home. And second...we come to really understand the chaos they had us living in. During those two months, you will have time to heal, time to regroup and find out who you are, again.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

I've often thought of paying rent on a cheap place for my son (also 19, but living on the streets, not at home). My fear is that he will end up with all the deadbeats and druggies he meets in the city parks living with him, they will trash the place, and some how I'll be on the hook. Never forget the "I'll be on the hook" part...when you loan them money, when you cosign, when you call in favors for them, put them on your insurance, take out a joint credit card, anything. Its fine to be on the hook if you can afford it and choose it knowingly and thoughtfully. Just think hard about if your daughter will leave the place "clean and broomswept" as most rentals require...and if not, if you are ok with that and it is worth it to get some peace in your house.
Good luck to you. I have been in very similar places.

 

[rush]

Something has got to change quickly here. I can't stand the arguing with her everyday. When she went to a friends house a month ago for a week, we pitched her mattress and foundation because it stunk and was ruined from all the food and stuff she eats in her room. When she came back, she slept on sleeping bags on the floor. I found a used mattress and boxsprings for her for Christmas and gave it to her yesterday. She did say thank you. She had to clean her room to set it up, so all the clothes that were in her room are now in the hall. I washed my sleeping bags, but am leaving washing her clothes to her. She just got out of bed a few minutes ago and asked, "What am I supposed to eat for breakfast." I told her toast or something. (I quit buying groceries for the fridge like eggs milk lunchmeat etc. because she eats it all, even the canned veggies in the cabinet she eats. I hide a few things in my room for my husband and I, and keep milk and things in a locked small fridge in the garage for he and I) She started yelling about how I hide the groceries, cussing and all. I told her, you got paid last Thursday, go buy yourself something to eat. She said, " I am not going to buy myself food all the time and go broke!" Some nerve! I told her whats the difference, you eat up all the food I buy and we don't get any, so how is that fair? I am not obligated to feed you! I told her you need to move out, and it is always the same thing from her. She says, "you didn't make my older sister move out when she was 19, thats not fair!" I told her this is not about your older sister, this is about you! Your older sister , who is 23, has been working since she was 15, has been at the same job for 5 years, and she moved in and out 3 times between ages 17 to 22. She is out on her own, and making her own way. Besides that, your older sister never did the things you do here. she never ate up all the groceries, left atrocious messes, and disrespected us the way you do. You two are two different people so stop bringing her into this and realize this is about you!
I dont know how much more I can stand! She has got to go, the sooner the better. She will never grow up and appreciate how good she has had it here untill she is on her own paying her own way. Guess I should go ahead and try to find her a cheap place to stay huh? I was waiting to see if she gets to go to work this week. Thanks for listening and any advice you may offer.

 

[Echolette]

Rush,
I don't have much advice to offer. I guess you can try a contract...pick 10 rules, maybe 5 "musts" and 5 "must nots" that matter to you a lot. You can include that she must wash her sheets once a week, that she cannot have food in her room, that she must contribute some fixed amount of money to the food bill, whatever works for you. You and she can initial every line, and make a copy. Then, if she breaks a rule, she has to leave. At least everything is clear then, and it doesn't boil down to "this is mean , you aren't fair". It is simply the rules of the house...like em and stay, hate em and leave.. her choice.
My son used to eat food all over house and leave sticky messes and rotten food for us to find. It became a huge bone of contention. Sometimes he would hide the dirty plates and leftovers under chairs or in drawers.. we would find tem randomly, or when they smell. We sometimes terminated visits home for that alone. He either couldnt or wouldnt stop. In the end it didnt matter, I refused to put up with it.
Having to hide or lock up your food is not OK. I know you know that. You are right tat something has to change, and that can only start with you.
Just a thought..is she giving food to friends or selling it? Seems like she consumes a lot. Is she on medications that make her appetite uncontrollable?

 

[recoveringenabler]

Rush, I am sorry this continues. I think you must have clear consequences for behavior. If you have been enabling her, then what you are saying is not reaching her because you've allowed this behavior in the past. So, make a list of what you absolutely MUST have, what your particular rules in your home are and are non negotiable. Tell her she must comply with this list and if she doesn't, then she must leave. Make the consequence absolute, there are no loopholes or justifications, rationalizations, reasons, nothing, you break the rules, you go. Call a local shelter and find out if they have room. Or do the cheap place to live, but that is entirely up to you, you don't have to do that, you are under no obligation to pay for anything, and if you do, it is a temporary thing. I don't think the Feb. deadline will work now.

The problem when we enable our kids is that we set a precedent and we allow bad behavior which in essence sends them the message that they can pretty much do anything without consequences. That is not real life, real life is our behavior dictates the outcome. She has not learned this and you are at your wits end.

Look inside yourself and ask yourself "what am I willing to do WITHOUT RESENTMENT? If you can afford a place for her, and you will not resent it and it feels good, then do it. BUT, if you are already resentful for all you've done and this will be yet another nail in your coffin, then don't. It's really all up to you, you make the rules, you pay the bills, it's your home, you make the rules. Figure out what you are really willing to do and what you're not and then tell her. She can just as easily stay in a women's shelter and eat their food.

It's good you didn't buy into the guilt, because our kids are masters at placing their lives in our hands and making us responsible for their bad choices, don't buy it. Frankly, if I were you, I would go the shelter route if she cannot comply with the rules you set forth, there are many loopholes in the cheap place, only one of which is you may end up being responsible for damage or anything she does. I would look further into that before I made that choice.

It would be helpful to us to remember all your stats if you put a bio underneath your post as you see we all have done. You can do that by going up to the right hand corner here, clicking on settings, scroll down on the left side and look for profile, bio, etc and fill it in. Remember to save it so it will show up. That way we can recall your story immediately. There are many stories here and sometimes it's a challenge to try to remember each difficult child saga. Thanks.

Do what is right for YOU. You sound as if you are at the end of your rope. Take your power back. Don't allow your daughter to hold you hostage with guilt, you didn't do anything wrong, it's she who is the problem. We spend a lot of time surfing the guilt and fear wave and it really prolongs the inevitable, which is she needs to be on her own in life without you suffering over her choices. Good luck.

 

[rush]

Hi all! Thanks for listening again. I think you are right enabler, I would have rented her a place, but I think I would resent it. I am currently compiling a list of house rules for her. I hope it helps things while she hopefully gains employment.
I would have already sent her out the door, but in the area we live, there are no shelters. There is one about 12 miles away, but it's one that is usually full. It is at a church so no one can stay there during the day. They feed you breakfast before you leave in the morning, and if you get back in time, they will feed you dinner. Then if there is room, you can stay the night. You may have a place to sleep for one night, but be out of luck for the rest of the time.
It's going to come down to her just being put out my door I am afraid. She will have to figure out on her own how to make her way. She may end up sleeping in her car, I don't know. But at this point, she seems to have the attitude that everyone owes her, like food, a roof over her head, utilities, etc. She needs to learn that you have to work for those things, no one is going to hand them to her, like I have been doing.
Thanks again for the advice! I am trying everything suggested to me that is feasible for me to do. The curious thing about all this is, that I know she will do just fine on her own, keep a neat house, and be happier if she would just grow up. I have seen this in her from a young girl. When she has a job, she never misses work. Right now she just has trouble keeping a job, usually because she doesn't learn fast enough. I think eventually she will be fine, a productive self sufficient adult in society.

 

[rush]

Echolette-
she was average size until about age 14. Then she just started putting on weight. She eats A LOT, I don't think she is selling or giving away the food. Most of the time, I think she eats because she is bored, not because she is hungry. She is about 100 pounds over weight, but if she gets a regular job, keeps it, and moves out on her own, I think eventually some of that weight will come off. Thanks for your advice! My daughter does some of what your son did, with the hiding dishes in drawers and stuff. I am compiling a list of house rules right now, and will give it to her soon.
Thanks again!

 

[scent of cedar]

Possible to rent her something for just a few days? I don't know how to change established patterns with difficult child kids unless we take some kind of a stand. Maybe, you could tell her that, unless your rules for her are followed, starting immediately, you will be putting another plan into effect. Don't tell her what it is. If there is no change in three days, tell her that three days from now, if there is again no change, you are renting a room for her for one week, during which time you will decide whether you can afford, monetarily, psychologically, and emotionally, to have her come to live with you again, or not. If she asks what she is supposed to do if she can't come home, you can say that she should follow the rules, now, because you just aren't going to live like this.

Is your daughter depressed?

Cedar

 

[rush]

Possible to rent her something for just a few days? I don't know how to change established patterns with difficult child kids unless we take some kind of a stand. Maybe, you could tell her that, unless your rules for her are followed, starting immediately, you will be putting another plan into effect. Don't tell her what it is. If there is no change in three days, tell her that three days from now, if there is again no change, you are renting a room for her for one week, during which time you will decide whether you can afford, monetarily, psychologically, and emotionally, to have her come to live with you again, or not. If she asks what she is supposed to do if she can't come home, you can say that she should follow the rules, now, because you just aren't going to live like this.

Is your daughter depressed?

Cedar

Hello all and happy holidays!
It is so nice of you all to take the time to read and respond to these posts. I really appreciate it!
My situation hasn't changed much. However, since my last post, my daughter totaled the replacement car the insurance money bought. she wasn't hurt but is without transportation again. And this time it only had liability insurance on it, so no money to replace it.
She still hasn't found another job. She isn't really trying too hard to find one either. I leave her numbers to call, places to apply at, but she makes very little effort. I think your are right, she may be depressed.
She has gotten into a routine of staying up all night and eating while on the computer, then sleeping most of the day.
I gave her the February deadline that she has to be out by, and I posted the rules, which she signed, on the refrigerator. She follows some, ignores others. It is partly my fault for letting her get away with breaking some rules, but I just can't bring myself to toss her out the door in winter knowing she has no where to go. I hope the household can survive until February when I am going to kick her out.
Another bad thing about her totaling the car is this. It may sound awful, but I always thought if I kicked her out, and she had no place to go, she could always sleep in her car.
I try to keep my chin up. If she makes an honest effort and gets a job, I will find a cheap car for her. Hard to go to work where we live without one when most jobs are at least 15 miles away.

I know I am enabling her by letting her stay, but I am trying to muster up the gumption to say "get out" and mean it. After all, it is the only way she will ever grow up.

Thanks again all and prayers and blessing to all this holiday season!
Rush

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Rush, honey? You are not the guilty one, here. There is no guilty party. Your daughter has some problems that are so difficult for her to deal with that she still requires your help, that's all. What each of us is trying to do Rush, is to learn how to walk that really thin line between enabling the kids to continue as they are, and helping them to do better. This is the thing that is so unfair about that, Rush: Other parents never have to look this stuff in the face, ever. What we are are doing, that thing we learn to call enabling once the child gets stuck again, is normal parenting behavior. (That should have been underlined. Problems with the site, still. That's okay. Thank goodness it is here for us, at all.)

Now, where was I?

Oh. Rush? What we are all living through, learning through, trying to be healthy through, is impossible. There isn't any way to do what we are doing.

And yet, we do it.

We learn more about what choices we might make, we gather strength from one another, we learn from each of the other parents' stories...but there is no such thing as the situations we are all in being solely the result of enabling. You did not do this to your child. Your child needs more help than, right now, you know how to give her. Our purpose here on the site Rush, is to help you, and to help ourselves.

And really? Our purpose is to learn how to help our children if we can.

If this was easy, none of us would be here, Rush ~ especially the week before Christmas!

I know nothing is working, Rush. That happens to all of us. We all get so discouraged, we all try harder, try to learn a new thing, a new way of interacting, a new anything, anything at all. But we're the moms, Rush. (Some dads here, too.) We are the ones lying awake at night worrying that we might have missed some essential piece that will make it all right. We are the ones who swear never to do it again, and who love our own troubled children so much that our work suffers, our health suffers, our marriages suffer...and still, we have eyes only for the suffering of our children. Detaching has as much to do with forgiving ourselves, Rush, for not knowing how to help them as it does with blessing ourselves for everything we have done, and done well, and done again.

I think the most valuable thing I have learned through my time here is that I cannot save my child if I am not nurturing myself. I cannot model healthy behaviors for my child if I am not healthy, myself.

O.K.

So that's like, two things.

:O)

Maybe it will help Rush, if you can present the February move as a positive thing. I don't know how you could do that? But I know that you can. Moms here (and dads, too) do impossible things, accomplish those things against impossible odds, all the time. We seldom give ourselves the praise and recognition any other parent would be bathed in because, with our kids?

It doesn't work.

That is not your failure, Rush.

It is just what happened.

difficult child daughter often seems not to want a vehicle, either. Maybe, that is for the best, right now. Are there buses in your town? If not, maybe you could be looking into a possible February placement for her in a town that does have buses.

I know you will figure all this out, Rush. That is what moms like us do. I just didn't want you feeling guilty for enabling or guilty for...well, for anything. What we are doing is so hard Rush, that we need every smallest bit of energy we possess just to make it through the day.

And the nights, as you know Rush, are worse.

Holding such a good thought for you and your daughter and family, Rush.

Merry, merry Christmas. The joy is there, if you create it for yourself for just a moment. The scent of those Christmas candles? Making me so happy, today. Bringing back memories of happier times. Little gifts like that Rush, things we purposely do for ourselves and then, take one little minute to enjoy...those are the things that will get us through. The way the sun looks today, the scent of the breeze. Any smallest thing, Rush. Give yourself that gift.

Or maybe?

A power nap.

Ha! I love power napping.

Cedar

 

[rush]

Hello all! Hope everyone had a great holiday season and are keeping warm in this cold spell.
My daughter still hasn't found a job. She did have an interview last week, but she hasn't heard anything back on it yet. She has applied for a couple other jobs recently as well.
If I need to learn to detach, she is now going to speed up the process. Today she tells me she is moving to Texas this coming Monday. I told her that is a not a good decision. She says some guy she met on the internet is coming to pick her up Monday. First off, she has never met this guy face to face. Second, she doesn't even know his last name. Finally, she has no money, no job, no car, no cell phone. All of this doesn't even mention the fact that this guy could be a killer, drug addict, God knows what! She doesn't think about things like that. I tried to get her to understand that people can pretend to be anything they want behind the anonymity of the internet, but she is so naive, and lonely I think, she will trust anyone, sight unseen. If she were more social, had more friends she hung out with or talked to here, I don't think she would even consider moving far away.
Remember she did this last March. Moved from her home in TN to Kansas for 6 months. Stayed with some guy at his granny's house, until granny kicked her out and she ended up in a shelter and living in tents. Had her car and all her possessions stolen while in Kansas. Now she wants to do the same thing in another state. I told her mom will not be bailing her butt out this time. She said this guy has his own place, and will bring her back home if it doesn't work out. I still think it is a mistake. I think she is running from growing up, looking for an easy way out. Yet, I cannot stop her from going, she is an adult. Who knows, it could work out. He could turn out to be a decent human being, she could find a job and get herself a car and like it there. If thats the way it turns out, I would be happy for her. But you all know I am going to worry myself sick about her.
I can't think of one thing to say to talk her out of it. I did mention if he is willing to let you move out there now, can he wait 3 months to see if you can make a go of it here, near your family. Oh boy, kids worry you to death, don't they?
Good reading in the forums tonight! Thanks for all your replies!

 

[BusynMember]

If she can keep a job, you aren't helping her by letting her live at home, abuse you, and not work.
I never had the money to rent my difficult child a room. She was lucky shse found a place to live because I never paid for her lodgings. She got her life together AFTER she left. She has no right to demand anything of you. It is YOUR house.She is a guest.

in my opinion you need to enjoy your life in peace. You may want to pick up the book "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beatty and and read the link on the top of the page about detachment.

Until then, I would not even talk to her when she gets verbally aggressive. Calmly tell you her will talk to her when she is ready to quietly listen without yelling. Her verbal engagement is a way to control you, make you feel guilty, and do her bidding. If you won't engage her, you gain some power. Trust me, she knows darn well why her sister was treated differently. She would have gotten the same treatment if she followed the rules like Sis. This never needs to be discussed since she is well aware of the why of this.

You badly need to find a way to have a good life without worrying too much about your self-destructive daughter. You deserve a good life, and she does too, but she has to make herself have a good life. Even if you pay for a rental, she very well may just leave it and go elsewhere.

Hugs and take care.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Susie wrote an excellent post!

My daughter was just as bad only she was also a drug addict. We gave her the ultimatum of rehab or leaving our home. She left and was out of the house for a few years. She learned a LOT being homeless. She gets it now. I do have to remind her to pick up after herself now and then, but I pick my battles. Her room a mess? I close the door or don't go upstairs...lol. But, seriously, she does not disrespect anyone in the house anymore. She asks before she eats something if I have not told her it is a snack. She contributes and is now a joy to be around. BUT it took a while to get here...and it was a long, emotional, painful road.

Our kids, unfortunately, have to learn things the hard way. They are just wired differently. If these are the choices she is making, she has to FEEL the consequences of them. If mom and dad continually rescue her - what motivation does she have to do anything for herself? Let her fall, momma. She needs to learn how to pick herself back up. What is she going to do if heaven forbid, something should happen to you and you weren't around to rescue her anymore?

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Remember she did this last March. Moved from her home in TN to Kansas for 6 months.

Who knows, it could work out.

But you all know I am going to worry myself sick about her.

I did mention if he is willing to let you move out there now, can he wait 3 months to see if you can make a go of it here, near your family.

This is going to sound so terrible Rush, but...can you let her go with an open heart? That is what you need to do for your own sake, I think. You said it, yourself: "I cannot stop her." As she has done this dangerous, foolish thing before, she probably really is going to do it again.

And when she does? It will be with utter disregard for how it affects you.

That is so cold, Rush.

This kind of thing does not happen to other parents.

I don't know how you survived it the first time. Now, she's making that same pick, again.

This is like, every mother's worst nightmare.

Which are the things, the tools and techniques, that will help you survive it and come out the other side healthy and strong, Rush? That is the only choice your daughter is leaving you. To choose a life of fearful anxiety, or to figure out a way to live strong, whatever your daughter chooses, and whatever the consequences of those choices.

Not fair, is it. It is what it is, though.

I keep thinking about Scott G's post about recognizing and accepting who our kids are and not judging or trying to change them. Once we do that, we are free. Once we are free, fear for the kids becomes a manageable thing.

We accept what is.

We love them, we let them go. What we are left with is witnessing the stories our determinedly self-destructive children weave of their lives. The only choice we have the power to make is whether to choose to be healthy and strong in the face of that fearsome reality, or not.

It isn't a simple thing. I am struggling so hard Rush, to learn to do this for myself. I think I am turning a corner, here. Since my daughter's beating, I have been waking up and going to sleep (or to sleeplessness) from the bottom of a version of h*** even I never imagined.

There isn't another choice for us, Rush.

Fear, or determined reclamation of purpose and joy.

Cedar

 

[recoveringenabler]

Rush, thanks for the update. I'm so sorry this continues. You are right that at this point, there is little you can do about the choices your daughter makes..........dangerous as they may be.

The one power you do have is to choose the responses you have and the way you view the whole situation. That's where detaching comes in. I can't recall if you yourself are in therapy or a support group but those professional supports become invaluable in this process..........it is just too difficult to do alone and the damage it can do to us is unfathomable. There is also NAMI for the courses they offer parents. Doing this alone, in my opinion, keeps all those horrific feelings we go through, continuing. Your daughter may not change, she may make poor decisions for decades, for the rest of her life.............but you can change YOU, you can change your responses and you can change how you feel in the wake of her choices.

Hang in there............find supports for yourself.............we're here with you............

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh and I will also add that my daughter constantly threw in my face that her brother was treated differently and we told her the same thing. He does what he is told, he does not mouth back and never gets in trouble. They were two very different children growing up...she sees it now, but didn't then...she sees a lot of things now, but it took learning the hard way and my trying my best to detach as much as I could. This board has been my savior over the years!!!

 

[rush]

Good day all! The sun is shining here and the temperatures are rising so that's a pick me upper right off the bat!
Well, now my difficult child is NOT going to Texas, thank GOD! She called the guy and I asked for his last name and address, things I wanted to know if she was going to move to his place in Texas. I had given up trying to talk her out of it and tried to accept it. She knew I didn't agree, but she also thought giving me her new address in Texas along with the full name of the person she was staying with was a good idea. Well, when I asked the young man for this info, he hung up on me! He texted her back that she was, and I quote,
"Your a cat fish." Now I had to look that one up on the internet lol. When I discovered what that meant, I thought to myself that she may be one of those cat fishes. Maybe she is making herself out to be someone she is not on the internet in hopes of meeting a boyfriend. Who knows? All I know is, she is staying, and I am thankful for that.
Meantime, she still needs to find a job here. Turns out, what made her go looking for a place to move to and then choosing Texas in the first place was the deadline I gave her to be out of my house by. I told her she needed to be out by Feb 28. So instead of continuing her job search here and looking for a place, she gave up and decided it would be best to run off again. I told her to keep trying to find a job. She said "please dont make me homeless." I said just keep trying, you will find something and life will get better for you once you have your own place in the world.
Good day to all!
Rush

 

[rush]

Hello!
I have been reading every now and then the new posts, but have been so busy with life that I haven't updated our circumstances.
My difficult child, who will be 20 this fall, still lives at home. However, she has a job, and month by month I can see her growing up a little more. While she was out of work, she finally started keeping house for me while I worked. Since she has been working, she still helps out in the house. She has every intention of moving out on her own, but she tells me it may take her a while to save enough money and to be sure she is making enough money to pay her own way. To me, things have improved tenfold. Everything in the household is better now. I just pray she stays on the right path. She is on her medication regularly, and has been for a while. She finally quit meeting boyfriends on the internet who live hundreds of miles away. She is dating a guy in the area and he works two jobs, doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs. I am proud of her and the progress she has made. Thank you all for your advice and prayers! You make the bad times easier to get through!