And he's going down fast
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
There is a distinction between physical addiction and psychological addiction. When I was a young woman I smoked for a time and went to a group for help quitting. I remember being taught the physical need ceased in 3 days. It took years to not want to smoke to cope and relax or when I was in dozens of situations that triggered the desire to smoke.
While never addicted to benzos at a couple of times in my life I have had them prescribed. I loved the sense of wellbeing and calm they induced which has made me extra vigilant to not seek out this altered state.
My son relies on excessive quantities of marijuana to induce a meditative state he claims. Yeah. Right. But I know first hand how blissful it feels to not care and to diminish suffering. This craving and dependency can be psychological independent of addiction in the physiological sense.
While never addicted to benzos at a couple of times in my life I have had them prescribed. I loved the sense of wellbeing and calm they induced which has made me extra vigilant to not seek out this altered state.
My son relies on excessive quantities of marijuana to induce a meditative state he claims. Yeah. Right. But I know first hand how blissful it feels to not care and to diminish suffering. This craving and dependency can be psychological independent of addiction in the physiological sense.
Littleboylost
Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
I hear you. I was given a prescription of Valium by my doctor when my son had been arrested and was couch surfing God knows where. I told the pharmacist I only wanted 5 at a time. I took 5 in about 10 days and never got the rest of them filled. I did break the not being able to sleep at all issue. But I was petrified to develop any dependence.
I agree with Copa. There is physical addiction and psychological addiction. My daughter was able to stay sober for months at a time. She explained it to me as she could fight the desire and cravings for a while and she would eventually get to the point where she would tell herself that she could handle one drink. So she would have one and it would be okay. Then she would think she could handle two . . . and then three . . . and eventually spiral back into losing control. I asked her why in the world she would think that when it always went south and she said "you just don't think like an addict, mom."
You can be an alcoholic without drinking every day or even stop drinking for periods at a time. You can be an addict without using every day or stopping for periods of time.
You can be an alcoholic without drinking every day or even stop drinking for periods at a time. You can be an addict without using every day or stopping for periods of time.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Even if you are clean for twenty years yiu are still an addict. Addiction means that once you have of the drug you are addited to, you cant stop.
Also it is possible son used even in rehab.at the very least he craved them so much that he used badlythe first chance he had.
Xanax is highly physically addictive.
Also it is possible son used even in rehab.at the very least he craved them so much that he used badlythe first chance he had.
Xanax is highly physically addictive.
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BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
Regarding your son being able to abstain for long periods of time, this is a characteristic of a binge user. My brother is a binge user too. He also went months without drinking then bam, off the rails. Until he found recovery he was still an active addict, the substance controlled his actions. It is still addiction and the spiral downward is the same in both cases from my experience. Yes, it is confusing to those of us who expect that a "true" addict would have to use each day.
Littleboylost
Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
I often wonder is the the CD that caused the drug use or the drug use that caused the Conduct Disorder? What eve the case may be my son has a mixed issue he cares not to deal with. Until he does he will have to fight his own demons his own way.
pigless in VA
Well-Known Member
RN, just reading this latest update. I am glad your son is in rehab and that his girlfriend responded appropriately. Another dip in the rollercoaster. 
bluebell
Well-Known Member
We gave the impound lot the title to our son's car in May also. Had just spent 1800 in November fixing it after he wrecked it and was in pretty good (running) shape (not pretty though). It was a tough financial decision to make. It's hard for me to do things that don't make sense.
Unfortunately my son went out and bought another car that is just a huge headache. He is driving it uninsured with no tags. So turning it in did not get him off the streets. I still grapple with that decision.
Unfortunately my son went out and bought another car that is just a huge headache. He is driving it uninsured with no tags. So turning it in did not get him off the streets. I still grapple with that decision.
RN0441
100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
I have always thought my son was a binge user. That is why it took us so long to have him leave our home. We kept thinking the in between times would last forever. Ha!
My son went to some doctor and got 60 pills. Who knows. He went through them in 4 days. Good Lord. My husband couldn't even get a pain killer when he had hand surgery. We don't get it.
I sent the title in today. Costing $30 to send overnight and that is with company discount. But we're paying $25 per day so.....
My husband was so upset when I got home last night. Had just gotten off the phone with our son. He told him that he should be dead. He has overdosed more than once and got behind the wheel after taking a bunch of pills and blacked out. He told him that he was happy he had the job and was doing good and wanted him to be able to drive to work since the bus service sucks there. That he just had windows tinted for his early birthday present and new tires and had it detailed. My husband was so proud to do this for him. He felt he shouldn't do it but he did it anyway. He told him that he will now have to save for a car of his own and insurance and not sure how he can even get insurance.... He told son that he just F'd him over and that he can't even talk to him. Had to hang up.
We were both so upset last night. Just could barely talk to each other.
Son called back later. He wasn't going to answer it. He did and our son said that he is really very sorry that this all happened. And that it's not really him. It's his addiction. My husband said but you won't get help for it! He then said that he was going to put everything he had into the program because he wants us in his life. He sounded sincere. He said he took leave from job for personal problems and they told him to keep them posted.
Not getting hopes up but maybe he's realizing that dad is done too. Actions will speak louder than words so we will wait to see. He is in a great place and the help is there if he wants it. If not he has to find his own way. I really could cut him off completely at this point. How can you have someone in your life that causes you so much pain?
My son went to some doctor and got 60 pills. Who knows. He went through them in 4 days. Good Lord. My husband couldn't even get a pain killer when he had hand surgery. We don't get it.
I sent the title in today. Costing $30 to send overnight and that is with company discount. But we're paying $25 per day so.....
My husband was so upset when I got home last night. Had just gotten off the phone with our son. He told him that he should be dead. He has overdosed more than once and got behind the wheel after taking a bunch of pills and blacked out. He told him that he was happy he had the job and was doing good and wanted him to be able to drive to work since the bus service sucks there. That he just had windows tinted for his early birthday present and new tires and had it detailed. My husband was so proud to do this for him. He felt he shouldn't do it but he did it anyway. He told him that he will now have to save for a car of his own and insurance and not sure how he can even get insurance.... He told son that he just F'd him over and that he can't even talk to him. Had to hang up.
We were both so upset last night. Just could barely talk to each other.
Son called back later. He wasn't going to answer it. He did and our son said that he is really very sorry that this all happened. And that it's not really him. It's his addiction. My husband said but you won't get help for it! He then said that he was going to put everything he had into the program because he wants us in his life. He sounded sincere. He said he took leave from job for personal problems and they told him to keep them posted.
Not getting hopes up but maybe he's realizing that dad is done too. Actions will speak louder than words so we will wait to see. He is in a great place and the help is there if he wants it. If not he has to find his own way. I really could cut him off completely at this point. How can you have someone in your life that causes you so much pain?
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I believe in the times they are sincere, they are. It is just that it goes only so far. When they are presented with something they want, they sincerely want THAT, which dictates their behavior in the moment. Your son,rn, continues to disavow responsibility to "Demon Rum." I guess that is the beginning of the humility that could be and should be a basis of real change. But he has to come to want it more than anything for himself, not for his family.
As I type this I realize so much my self-delusion with my son and my desperate holding onto the sense I have any control or real influence at all. I believe my son loves me sincerely. But does that extend to choices for himself, or hesitancy in manipulating me according to his momentary needs and interests, no.
My job is me. Protecting me, centering me, nurturing me. I forever keep getting my role confused in parenting an adult child. This is my problem and I make it his. Unfortunately for both of us. You guys here who grapple with this with far younger children are a great help and great models. Thank you.
As I type this I realize so much my self-delusion with my son and my desperate holding onto the sense I have any control or real influence at all. I believe my son loves me sincerely. But does that extend to choices for himself, or hesitancy in manipulating me according to his momentary needs and interests, no.
My job is me. Protecting me, centering me, nurturing me. I forever keep getting my role confused in parenting an adult child. This is my problem and I make it his. Unfortunately for both of us. You guys here who grapple with this with far younger children are a great help and great models. Thank you.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
The bus in Chicago sucks. It is overcrowded and uncomfortsble. But for me it was a ride to work.
Honestly, these adult kids want only total comfort. How entitled!
No addict, binge or otherwise, should ever be behind the wheel of a car. Ever. He is a danger to himself and to the nice young mother driving sober with her baby in the car. And to the family man innocently trying to get home from work. He could easily kill somebody or himself. 50% of all car accidents invilve intoxication.
I feel he should suck up the not good bus system and use it in place of a car. He has no business being on.the road in a guided missle. Our kids are dear to us, but does that mean we should pacify them and ignore the danger of them driving or other peoples loved ones who are driving. I would never help this kid drive again. I would have stopped after the first intoxicated accident. In fact, we did exactly that with Daughter.
Please help keep him off the road.
Honestly, these adult kids want only total comfort. How entitled!
No addict, binge or otherwise, should ever be behind the wheel of a car. Ever. He is a danger to himself and to the nice young mother driving sober with her baby in the car. And to the family man innocently trying to get home from work. He could easily kill somebody or himself. 50% of all car accidents invilve intoxication.
I feel he should suck up the not good bus system and use it in place of a car. He has no business being on.the road in a guided missle. Our kids are dear to us, but does that mean we should pacify them and ignore the danger of them driving or other peoples loved ones who are driving. I would never help this kid drive again. I would have stopped after the first intoxicated accident. In fact, we did exactly that with Daughter.
Please help keep him off the road.
BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
You will grow accustomed to ignoring his words and paying attention only to his actions.
Addicts cannot be trusted.
Addicts cannot be trusted.
RN0441
100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
We only gave him the car when he was clean and in sober living. We would never give to him if we thought he was using and took it away for that very reason. We were told by the sober living it was okay and they would monitor. He was not using at that time however, the car gave him freedom he could not handle.
He's not getting another car from us. We are DONE. He will have to work hard for the next one. Yes he can take the bus OR he can pay for Uber. We don't care. It's his problem.
Luckily nothing happened but we learned a lesson.
Uber and Lyft are always options. My daughter used both of them to get back and forth to work. Truthfully, I think it is cheaper than having to pay for a car, insurance, and gas . . . just not as convenient. It is certainly safer for an addict unless they have a long period of sobriety behind them. We gave our daughter our old twelve year old car when I bought a new one. She had been sober for a year at that point and I consulted with my therapist and the sober living house manager before we gave it to her. Of course, it is in her name and she pays for the insurance, repairs, and gas herself.
My daughter differentiates between addiction and "active addiction." She considers herself an addict who is not in active addiction. I think that sums it up perfectly.
My daughter differentiates between addiction and "active addiction." She considers herself an addict who is not in active addiction. I think that sums it up perfectly.
RN0441
100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Husband wanted him to have the car the last time more than I did. He was getting good reports from his therapist etc. but seemed to disengage a week after car "arrived". Hmm that is very telling.
I knew son wasn't really committed to sobriety. I could just tell. I'm waiting for that neon sign you all talk about. (LOL)
Husband now realizes he made a bad call that could have cost our son his life. I will never tell him that. He has suffered enough.
I do think after this he is finally where I am. He has grown so much in this that it amazes me.
I knew son wasn't really committed to sobriety. I could just tell. I'm waiting for that neon sign you all talk about. (LOL)
Husband now realizes he made a bad call that could have cost our son his life. I will never tell him that. He has suffered enough.
I do think after this he is finally where I am. He has grown so much in this that it amazes me.
Littleboylost
Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
Winner winner chicken dinner!! OMG Copa this hit me so much in my heart!! I could not agree more. Yes they are sincere in the moment. And they do want to believe themselves! Your words are like addict poetry so well said I am copying this and reading it every day. I vow to be firm and loving but not enabling.
BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
Al Anon Al Anon Al Anon Al Anon
AlAnon is not the answer for everyone. RN already said that she preferred private therapy and the online forum for support. I feel the same way. I tried 12-step groups and didn't like them. I was more comfortable with going to a therapist and using this wonderful group of folks for support and understanding.
Others find AlAnon and Families Anonymous invaluable. There is no one right answer.
~Kathy
Others find AlAnon and Families Anonymous invaluable. There is no one right answer.
~Kathy
Albatross
Well-Known Member
What a week, RN. I hope you and hubs are feeling better today. It is so good that you are both now on the same page.
I agree with what Kathy said -- if they are setting conditions, they probably aren't ready yet. But I really do hope that between the accident, seeing how in control his addict is, and seeing how he has alienated both of his parents, something clicks for him this time. He has much to think about, and he is in a good and safe place to do it.
I agree with what Kathy said -- if they are setting conditions, they probably aren't ready yet. But I really do hope that between the accident, seeing how in control his addict is, and seeing how he has alienated both of his parents, something clicks for him this time. He has much to think about, and he is in a good and safe place to do it.
