At My Witt's End

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Overwhelmed1, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    You should not feel that you have to leave your own home. It should in my opinion be your safe place.

  2. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    I agree Busy but this is good for me. I needed to get out. I have let them both son and daughter hold me hostage.
    At home I spend most of my time in my bedroom when I come home from work to avoid confrontation with my son.
    When I did go visit my daughter I was at her mercy. I couldn't make coffee if I got up before her, I don't know how to make coffee, you know. Couldn't go to sleep at night if they were not ready to go to bed. "I don't know why you bother to visit if you are not going spend time with us like a family does."
    For me to walk away is a big deal. I am enjoying the people, the scenery, the noise of people talking kindly and laughing.
    I am working on getting my home back, but right now at this very moment I feel a little content. I think that's what this feeling is. Been so long since I felt any sort of positive emotion. At any rate it feels good.
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  3. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I will speak from only what I believe. I think that there are people with narcissistic personality disorder, and I think that there are many more people with narcissistic traits, and still many more with "healthy narcissism" because some self-regard is a good thing. But I think also that what looks like narcissism can arise from drug use and other addictive behavior, and I think it can arise from extreme self-indulgence. I don't think narcissism in the clinical, diagnosed sense is helped by medication as it is a personality disorder. I also want to add that narcissism is "popular" at this point in time. People believe that they can diagnose their mothers and their siblings, on the basis of what their relationships feel like.

    I think our children learn from us how to treat us. Unfortunately, when we're timid, give up our power, are easily manipulated, give in, are reactive, cry, beg, isolate, cater, we reinforce behaviors in them that seem narcissistic. We elevate them in importance. Give them the sense that they are the center of the world. Take away their ability to develop empathy and dis-incentivize compassion on their part, and reward self-indulgence on their part. I am not mother-bashing here, although I was guilty of all of these behaviors with respect to my own child.

    What I am saying here is that no one person in a family can be seen in isolation apart from the others. I am part of the problem. I need to look at myself.
    I did this for a very long time with my son and with M. And then things happened with respect to each of them, and I ended up alone in my house. And little by little it became glorious. I have spent 3 days washing windows and blinds. What a blessing.
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  4. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Copa, I am looking forward to the day I take interest in my home again. Washing windows, curtains, and deep cleaning was once therapeutic and enjoyable. Now I just don't care. I am happy for you!

    Came back home, it was getting dark and I couldn't see the ducks and geese any longer.I watched most of the boats,some I consider small yachts come in and watched the sun go down.
    Girlfriend sitting in her car, son in room with the door open. Don't know if they are going anywhere or not. But it's quiet.
    I guess it wouldn't be right to text them that I would like them out.
    I over heard my son talking about having to get a paternity test. He was complaining he would probably get stuck paying child support. I don't really know this grandson. Another disappointment I won't go into.
    Anyway, I told myself this was the weekend I would tell them they needed to move out by the end of May.
    I am getting really anxious and scared. I just hope between the extra stress at work, my recent distancing from my daughter and telling my son to move out doesn't take me somewhere I can't return from.
    I am trying to be strong and confident but not feeling it so much.
    I keep taking deep breaths, closing my eyes to try and meditate but not helping much.
    Pray for me to follow through.

    Peace and Love
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Maybe when the dust settles you can get some ducks or geese or chickens for your backyard. I am going to. There's a house downtown that seems to have at least a dozen geese (too many to be legal but nobody seems to care). He lets them out every day into the front yard and onto the sidewalk. He's on the corner in a big victorian house. I see them out there all the time.
    NOOO! What I am worried about and you too (see below) is the boomerang effect. What comes back at you as a consequence of telling them.
    If you are having this kind of fear, I would back off. You seem to be concerned about two things, your ability to cope, and what your son and this woman might do to you, whether it would be to hurt you or to act in such a way as to cause stress and discomfort.

    I think you know that your son has presented a threat, and currently is causing you distress. There is an X factor of how violent he might become and how much he will act out towards you. To me, these are red flags. I believe, truly, you need help to deal with this. Whether a therapist, Al Anon, a domestic violence counselor or a counselor through elder abuse, the police, the district attorney for a restraining order or all of the above. Personally, I would not force myself to do something without support and back up. I think that would be self-destructive. They are 2 against one. Your son has been violent and aggressive before. He has an anger management problem. There has been (or is) addiction. Your concern is real. I would take yourself seriously. You are responsible to protect yourself. Nothing is gained if this blows up in your face. There needs to be a plan, a safety plan, that gets them out and keeps you safe, emotionally and physically.
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  6. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Thank you Copa you always give me such good advice.
    I am begining to think I am moving to fast.
    I still have my grandkids on my mind. Everytime I think of them or see a picture I cry. I also think about how abandoned my daughter must feel and how worried she must be about what she is going to do.
    I do worry a lot about telling my son also.
    I have moments where I have to refrain from texting my daughter.
    I do feel like I shouldn't feel good about having more money for myself at their expense but I just can't pay for everything any more.
    Plus there are things I need to get done on my home that are not just cosmetic.
    Work is a struggle also. My boss seems to have favorites. She is eager for me to reprimand some staff, yet doesn't want to do anything to others that are causing issues. It's very obvious to me and I don't play favorites.
    I know it wouldn't be a wise move on my part to discuss this with her.
    Anyway, I do have a lot on my plate and I am extremely full. I would like to take the garbage off that plate and put it in the trash.
    I just wish it were that simple.
  7. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    You did not abandon your daughter. She abandoned herself. You helped her by enabling. I hate to be harsh but it's true. The vast majority of women in this world raise children alone at some point. They do their best to house and feed them and to provide care. In this society there are all kinds of supports for your daughter. If she had relied on them, instead of you, she would have had greater pride and independence, and a sense of her own efficacy and potential. I am not blaming either of you. You both chose this. Now you're choosing differently. You are not wrong.

    Of course she is worried, about what to do. But that's part of what helps us grow as adults. Meeting real world problems head on. She has it within her power to try to deal with this head on. Then she can come to you in a good faith way. I believe you would help her cobble things together for a limited time. But continue like it has been? That's not good for her. As I understand it, she is not disabled. She is healthy.
    Of course. Anybody could relate. You are wise and strong to resist this impulse, I believe.
    I'm sorry to be blunt but this is pure nonsense. Your money is yours. Theirs is theirs. Adults in our society generally make their own way. This is not communism. Our system entails adults establishing separate households. When there is communal housing, with multiple generations, that functions, the families either all contribute financially, or they each provide something so that the household functions. I have a friend whose in laws live with her. They help watch the kids, they cook and they clean, they ferry kids to school. But the central difference is that the arrangement is consensual and respectful.

    Your relationship with your son and his girlfriend and your daughter is none of these things. These relationships are not reciprocal, consensual, respectful or cooperative. It's not just you who is damaged by this, it's them too. You are allowing them to take advantage, disrespect you, use you, ignore your needs, etc. This is wrong of you. Because you are allowing your children, you're even helping your children be bad people. Just as I helped my son be a bad person, when I let him abuse me.

    I'm sorry to be so direct, but I feel strongly about this.
    Nooo. You're right. Don't talk to her about it. That's my sense.
    It wouldn't be good for us if we could just say abracadabra and have all of our problems disappear. We need to do the work to transform ourselves. That's the deal.

    What do you think your resistance is to reach out to others for help (besides us)?
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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  8. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Geeze, you don't hold nothing back do you? I am so fortunate that you have chose to keep listening and advising me. It must be so frustrating for you to watch me flopping around like a fish out of water. I am so wishy-washy
    I agree with everything you said.

    Now for the tough part. Answering your question.
    MY resistance to reach out for help.....
    Feeling ashamed and embarrassed.
    Realizing just how bad I failed my children.
    Showing how weak I really am.
    A big one is not being capable of handling my own problems.

    I've always been the calm and sensible one. The one everyone came to. I never learned to reach out myself. Funny thing is, the reasons on my list, I never thought any of those about anyone else.

    Copa, I like you. You make me think and that is good. Thinking calms me down and brings me back to the reality of the truth and the truth is I really don't have but one option if I am going to do any good for my children or myself.
    Still not easy though.
    I am not going to give up though.
    I do plan on looking into Al-anon when I can. I do think it will help me.
    Thank you Copa​
  9. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Overwhelmed...this is my advice. Don't let him stay there and keep abusing you and one day really hurt you. Really!

    I would take out a restraining order and have a police officer escort him out and change your locks and get a security system.

    in my opinion you have no time for months of therapy or Al Anon before you act. You can do both after he is gone. He and the girl need to go. They need to be forced out so that they have no time to retaliate in the home and so that they can be arrested if they come near you at all.

    These are grown adults but younger than you and you could get hurt or worse. The time to be safe is now. Your son is 35. You should not need to fear him. He is an abuser, like Kay. Please... I hope you chose to get a restraining order as soon as possible. Don't talk to them or daughter about what you are planning. They could be dangerous. Less is more.

    Love and hugs from the heart of another mother.
  10. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Busy, I agree I need to do this sooner than later and I don't know why I keep thinking about when is a good time. (actually just realized I was doing that) Contemplating how and when. Not even sure if I'm trying to decide when is a better time for me or him or both. Just writing this makes me realize there is never going to be a good time. It just has to happen.
    Safety is my first concern also. I am not as concerned about physical contact as I am the verbal abuse and him being destructive to property.
    He does get in my face, fists and all, but has never hit me. Not that I don't think sometimes he really wants to be has been able to refrain from doing so. When he was arrested it was because he was out of control and verbal and in my face when the police got to my home.
    His girlfriend bailed him out the next day.
    Now my daughter on the other hand, she has physically attacked me numerous times even when she wasn't living with me. She has also been removed from my home and arrested and had to go through anger management.
    In my mind I believed once the arrests had happened they would know I meant business and would stop their unwanted behavior towards me. I think it made it worse. Probably because I felt so bad I had to take that action, I tried to smooth it over. What an idiot!
    I have really made some bad decision along the way.
    Because of my bad decisions and nothing that I have attempted has worked, I second guess myself all the time. I suppose this is why I am so wishy-washy too.
    This is where this forum is so helpful to me. Getting confirmation on my decisions as well as all the great advise and the understanding of my situation. Plus I can think about how to say what I mean by typing my thoughts instead of just rambling on and possibly making no sense when I am face to face discussing all of this. although I guess I am sort of rambling now.
    On here it is my time with my coffee feeling like I have a friend i am enjoying my coffee with.
    I do appreciate everyone here that has taken the time for me and has brought me from a very dark place just a short time ago. I don't want to ever get to that place again.

    With all my Love and well wishes for everyone here that has been so helpful, I thank you and hope today is a good one.

    Peace and Love
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Look. We are mothers. Mothers love their children in loving ways. They protect their children. They advocate and support their children. This is biologically and genetically driven. And now?

    We are in positions where we have to turn out our children. Expose them potentially to arrest. Deny help. Turn a blind eye. Withhold support that we otherwise would be free to give. We have arrived to a situation where in order to protect and care for our children (as well as ourselves) calls for us to take actions that are absolutely contrary to who we are and have been. It really is as if to turn around an ocean liner in the sea.

    Having to reconcile these two opposite poles is not an easy thing. It takes many people many years to do so. This is NOT wishy washy. It's understandable. There has been a mother here for a number of years, 5, the same as me. Her adult son is paranoid schizophrenic. For years she was afraid and cowed in her home. Her son was becoming increasingly dangerous involving knives and implied threats of killing her. She was forced to involve the police. Her son may have been at the point of killing her. Only then could she act.
    Her grief and sadness was truly overwhelming. Her worry about her son after he left her home at times unbearable to share.

    Those of us who post here have been through variations of this story. And many of us have emerged at the other side. We have gone through years and years of this. Please don't think it was easy for any of us, or that we just nipped this in the bud just like that. We didn't. Not one of us.

    I was about to say I didn't feel this way. But I did. I guess I suppress it. I felt ashamed in front of my sister with her perfect daughters, and I felt shame in front of my neighbors who gossiped about me.
    These feelings of failure are your enemy. All of us feel them. But it's important to recognize they need to be marginalized. This is the ego talking. The ego is reactive. It joins up with the superego. There is nothing good that comes from this voice. It can't be allowed to run the show, like an evil master of ceremonies with a whip, standing on a box.

    At any moment, you can take back your real power. By shifting your thoughts and actions to something that is either empowering, nurturing or distracting. People do this through meditation, exercise, knitting, etc. Practices that we have at our ready as an alternative to self-attack. Your real power you found sitting in your car, watching the ducks and geese. That's the real you. It's always there for you. And me.
    In my faith there is the idea that all of us are broken. And the idea that the cracks are where the light comes through. And that light is divinity and G-d. If we didn't have cracks we would not grow. Think of a concrete sidewalk with a crack, and through that crack grows the most beautiful flower. That's what happening for you, here. And me, too.
    I'm this way too. I have found my own need to be almost intolerable to bear. I think a lot of us on this forum have this kind of personality. Very high expectations of ourselves, highly invested in the idea of being capable, self-reliant, pushing down feelings of dependency, vulnerability, like they're shameful. And then all hell breaks out in our lives, and all of a sudden, we can't cope. Yet, now is our opportunity to integrate these feelings into our real lives, to be vulnerable, to deal with shame, to have personas that reflect the reality of who we are. This is a good thing.

    I don't mean to be judgmental, OW. I don't know another way to support you other than telling you directly what I know to be true based upon my experience. But I am only one person, one voice. I know what I know based upon my own life, only. My life may not necessarily reflect the reality of your own. That is true of every other person here.
    This is so.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  12. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    The screaming has began. I'm in my room and OK. But I am sure it will be going on for a while.
    I just flat out told them they need to find a new place to live as soon as possible.
    My windows are open so I am sure
    the neighbors are getting an ear full.
    The guilt trip is being thrown at me. Bringing his sister up, everything I ever done wrong. All my faults. He opened my door and used some choice words. What kind of a mother does this, your a piece of +_$#.... on and on.
    I'm going to leave for awhile.
  13. Denise2017

    Denise2017 Member

    Overwhelmed I wanted to chime in and say that you are in wise and loving company here. Copabanana and Busy are wise caring, experienced people. I want to thank them here for the help they have given me and tell you a bit about myself.

    I also have an abusive daughter around the age of your son. She has anger management issues and is bipolar (at present she denies the bipolar). She is only steps away from being homeless. She is totally estranged from the entire family. I have not yet resolved my situation. It is costing me a lot of emotional pain on a daily basis.

    In fact I haven’t even been back to my own thread for a while because I have been so caught up in the daily drama.

    I have made the decision however, supported by the wise commenters on this site and my therapist, not to let her live with me. She has hit us, made existential threats and many other abusive actions.

    So far she has managed (by a very slim margin) to avoid going to a shelter, but it is taking a great toll on many levels. And the situation will repeat if our behaviors don’t change. She doesn’t want therapy or to change. Everything is our fault.

    We deserve to have lives. Good lives.

    I’m very glad that you found the geese and ducks. We have found that taking a 45 minute walk with our dog every day is a big help.

    So we both need to learn, to take control of our lives rather than giving our children that control.

    Referencing Copa’s quote above, I am also still working towards finding peace, strength and protecting myself. I am working on it. I have taken some steps. I know you can too.

    I wish you strength and peace, and so glad you found this wonderful site.
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  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Good. If you want to go that route, I would check out what the tenant landlord rules are in your state, for giving notice and follow them, putting it into writing and complying with all steps. I would always lock my door, and get a deadbolt put in. For right now, you can secure the door with a broom or something like that. Just google it. But I will tell you what I really think.
    That alone is enough to get him out now, with a restraining order. I would call the cops NOW. He has a documented history of violence against you and a record of anger management issues. He forced himself into your room against your will, and verbally threatened you, whether or not he spelled it out. The intent was to intimidate and to threaten. If it were me, knowing what I know now, I would call the police NOW and get them out NOW this minute. This will step up. He will escalate. You are a prisoner with him there in the house. This is the time to choose. Every minute you wait you empower him.

    I would NOT say one word to him. I would engage in no conversation. I would stay in my locked room. If the bathroom is in the hall, I would bring a bucket in my room, rather than go out. I would call the police right now. That is what I would do. Read your thread. Read your own words. Take yourself seriously.

    Those are my feelings. How much of this can you tolerate? How much of this do you deserve?
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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  15. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    I am back at the lake again different area. It's much quieter here. I will stay put until the storms roll in.
    He will hopefully be gone or calmed down when I get home.
    It's done and I do feel a weight lifted off my shoulders. I am still nervous and a little scared.
    Thank you for being here. When my son started telling, I just came her to write don't know what I wrote, honestly.
    Everyone here and I mean everyone has been so helpful and I am so grateful...
    God Bless
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  16. Denise2017

    Denise2017 Member

    Stay strong!
  17. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Thank you
  18. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member


    If you go home to find that your house has been in any way damaged or if your son and his girlfriend continue with their yelling and threats, you really need to call the police.

    Please keep checking in to let us know that you are safe!

    I will keep checking in here for your posts.

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  19. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Thank you Apple. I don't want you to worry, I will make sure to stay safe.
    Please don't anyone worry. I posted not realizing the affects it may cause. I went to the only people I know to have someone to talk to try to get my mind off the yelling.
    I am at the lake still enjoying the people, weather, ducks, geese and boats. So many families laughing and having a good time here. Actually surprised to see so many people out, but I am in my car looking out.
    I will certainly call the police if I need to.
    Thank you so much for caring.
  20. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Is there somebody you trust that you can call while you are entering the house? That would make everything your son and his girlfriend say or do public. I recognize that you feel hesitant to involve anybody else that knows you. The thing is, by keeping this private, you help to perpetuate the danger for yourself, and empower your son to abuse you. Does your room have a private entrance so that you can enter it, without going through the house? That way you could have a minute or so advance notice to call the police. If he accosts you immediately, I mean, even verbally, how will you have time to retreat to call the police?

    I am worried about right now. I am also worried about ongoing. Your worries were real. Based upon reality. Have you given them a move out date, in writing? I'm as worried about the emotional cost of living with these people, and how they will escalate against you, through psychological warfare.

    I agree with Apple, having a clear cut boundary in place now, in advance, is essential. Make an agreement with yourself to call the police if there is any yelling at you, threats, or damage. And agree with yourself to follow through. That's what I think.