Daughter 24 stole from me

[TheWalrus]

Copa, For me those feelings did fade. I used to lash right back out, let her see I was angry and hurt. Not anymore. Not sure why.

Perhaps because of her diagnosis, she won't take it the way it is intended. Her perception of people and their words and motives are very skewed. So lashing out makes it worse. And it provokes her to continue, which gets nowhere.

Perhaps it is because I know that when she is high, nothing I say gets through. And in her paranoia it just make her more vindictive and abusive, and I can't compete.

Or perhaps I am just tired. I see it is pointless, gets nowhere. It doesn't hurt her feelings or make her feel remorse. It just makes her angrier and I get more hurt.

I used to get very angry and lash back out hen she was ugly. Now I hang up the phone, turn it off, walk away. That bothers her more than arguing or trying to reason with her.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The only way to be sure of bipolar, the REAL bipolar, is if the person gets psychotic mania and then horrible depression.

Not true. I know someone really well who is BPII - they never hit "psychotic mania" - they swing from hypomania to depression, sometimes rapidly (as in multiple times per day). In this case, it was the frequency of the swings that flagged the bi-polar.

 

[BusynMember]

I have BiPolar (BP) 2. I get hyper manic but I know not to break the law. I dont become psychotic.

Actually, at least here, they are starting to csll BiPolar (BP) 2 mood disorder not otherwise specified. I feel personally that it fits better. And, take my word for this, my mood disorder, axiety and panic disorders and neurological quirks made my life very hard. But I was not psychotic and if I had broken the law, I would have known it. Being very impulsive, the urge to.take things I wanted was strong too, but I just didnt. Unless we are psychotic in my opinion we own what we do, no matter how hard life sometimes can be for the differently wired.

 

[TheWalrus]

The way my therapist explained it was that my daughter is impulsive, reckless, and is stuck in black and white thinking but she DOES know right from wrong. That is an over-simplified explanation of her but you get the point. She knows when she is lying, when she is breaking the law, when she is manipulating, etc. I know she isn't BiPolar but they initially thought she was. And from my understanding there are very good therapies out there and people with her condition are able to lead productive lives. However, she has to own her condition (which she does to collect diasbility and to make excuses for her behavior, to say she can't help it) and be open and willing to get treatment (at which point she says she is fine, she doesn't have a problem, she is an adult). Just my two cents.

 

[GoingNorth]

I have BPI with mixed states and rapid cycling. I'd much rather be manic than stuck in mixed states. My "default" mood is depression, not mania

 

[BusynMember]

GN, omg. Nobody understands a mixed state. I had these at first in high school and they were puzzling to me and not fun at all. I havent had one of thise yukky "mixes" since my medication, but will never forget.
I like hypomania. Unfortunately I am more inclined to depression. Thankfully the medications keep the depression at a level I can get out of. Wasn't always like that. My depression was suicidal and very severe. My mania was just a little bit happy, nothing major.

 

[GoingNorth]

I'm fairly stable right now, but the AP (Latuda) I am taking, while keeping me fairly level, makes me spacier than all getout for a few hours after I take it.

I get suicidal as well, though nothing like before I was medicated, though that was ugly to start with as well, as the first psychiatrist I saw diagnosed me with ADHD/Depression and started me on Prozac and Ritalin, which sent me somewhat psychotic as well as very manic.

 

[Devasted Mom]

I think that is a good idea. I completely understand the anger, it was a huge violation of your trust, especially from someone that you are very close to. Trust me, been there, done that.

I'm really not trying to sound harsh here, truly. I also understand not trying to fake it in front of a large audience. My perception is a little off, my family, other than immediate, is small, so I didn't really think about the holiday involving a large, extended family. I apologize.

Nothing to apologize I welcome your feedback

 

[Devasted Mom]

Honestl

Well, I have written before several times, that I am one mother who has had feelings of wanting to lash out at my child. I have been criticized for it here but I will say it again: Sometimes people want to hurt people they love. Nobody is saying this is Good Parenting 101.

Your daughter stole, if I remember, 20k from you. You are supposed to feel grateful? The only way through this I think is to be real with yourself. You are doing that.
One of the criteria for bipolar is spree-like behavior. This can involve compulsive shopping, gambling etc. There is an agitation that propels behavior, with the absence of the normal stops that you would think she would feel.

But the thing is, you were the victim of a crime. Even if her behavior was propelled by an illness, who can fault you for feeling victimized? Because you were. I do not think that the feelings associated with a trauma like this easily go away. They can resolve themselves with time but it is a process. That is why I believe it is a good thing to be honest about and to forgive yourself for what you feel, and to give yourself the space you need, without judgment
Honestly I really don't believe the bipolar thing. Maybe once I can truly understand it I can believe. I'm telling you she acts perfectly normal I can understand it just turns on and off.

 

[Devasted Mom]

Yes

Devasted Mom, you have been through so much. And it keeps unfolding. Of course there is a huge part of you that must be frightened. What is wrong with her? How will your oldest daughter and the rest of the family get through this and how will they get through this? How can this elephant in the living room be incorporated into family life? Will it ever be?

Have you thought about Al Anon? Either as an adjunct to therapy or an alternative? At one juncture of my life I went to a 12 step group. It was extremely helpful, actually more so than therapy had been, because it was focused on this one issue.

My main thing is what the hell is wrong with her? And the anger toward her for changing the dynamics of my family. This has changed the entire family unit. I didn't consider al anon but I will look into it. Ever question you posted is every question I ask myself over and over. I look at teens and their moms in stores as I shop , My mind is thinking don't put too much into her cause she will grow and ruin everything! Am I nuts!!!

 

[TheWalrus]

You are not nuts, but you need to shift your focus away from the negative. You are at a point that you cannot see the forest for the trees. You are letting her actions seep into your every waking minute, so that you no longer see anything positive. It is easy to sink into despair, anger, depression, and negativity. Hell, I felt entitled to it after what my child put me through. For months I lived there and truly felt robbed of my joy, my life and myself.

But we have to change just like our children do. The ownership isn't squarely on them. We have to change our beliefs of what we expected from them, let go of our wants for them, quit expecting them to behave or respond in preconceived ways, and accept the situation before us without turning bitter. You cannot change her. You can love her, support (but not enable) her, set boundaries with her, hurt and ache for her, mourn for what she has done. But the only person you can change is yourself and that is where you need to focus - how are YOU going to get through this and maintain and reassemble a family dynamic?

 

[Kalahou]

We have to change our beliefs of what we expected from them, let go of our wants for them, quit expecting them to behave or respond in preconceived ways, and accept the situation before us without turning bitter. You cannot change her. You can love her, support (but not enable) her, set boundaries with her, hurt and ache for her, mourn for what she has done. But the only person you can change is yourself

Thank you for this reminder, Walrus. Something I really needed to hear and reinforce today, and tomorrow, and the next day .....

 

[Devasted Mom]

You are not nuts, but you need to shift your focus away from the negative. You are at a point that you cannot see the forest for the trees. You are letting her actions seep into your every waking minute, so that you no longer see anything positive. It is easy to sink into despair, anger, depression, and negativity. Hell, I felt entitled to it after what my child put me through. For months I lived there and truly felt robbed of my joy, my life and myself.

But we have to change just like our children do. The ownership isn't squarely on them. We have to change our beliefs of what we expected from them, let go of our wants for them, quit expecting them to behave or respond in preconceived ways, and accept the situation before us without turning bitter. You cannot change her. You can love her, support (but not enable) her, set boundaries with her, hurt and ache for her, mourn for what she has done. But the only person you can change is yourself and that is where you need to focus - how are YOU going to get through this and maintain and reassemble a family dynamic?

I hear what your saying, but how I do I get to that place. I can't seem to get past think nor where to begin

 

[Sister's Keeper]

I hear what your saying, but how I do I get to that place. I can't seem to get past think nor where to begin

I think this is where therapy, alone and with your daughter when she is ready, could be helpful.

If she is diagnosed with bipolar disorder, check the NAMI website. Maybe there is a family support group near you.

https://www.nami.org/#

 

[TheWalrus]

I think that is different for everyone. For me? It was recognizing that, "oh no, the broken record look" on my friends' faces, feeling the distance in my immediate family. It may have been overexaggerated in my mind, but I knew if I didn't put the brakes on, I would lose the people who cared for me and had never treated me the way my daughter does. I decided she had robbed me of enough, and would continue to take, but not with my consent.

I thrive on routine and I had let things go. I started there, doing comfortable routines I had done before. It was hard. The first night I was home after weeks at her rehab, I burst into tears and said, "I don't know if I remember how to live this life. I don't know where to start." I started with laundry. That became dishes that became going to work that became...you get the idea.

Then I started doing things I enjoy, feeling guilty as hell and sometimes ending in tears. But I began to accept invitations out, go out to dinner, watch movies, read, walk...

I made it a point, and it had to be a conscious effort, to look at the blessings. She didn't die. She is disabled but alive. She has insurance, so she got care. I had the time to stop and be with her. She has had many, many doors open. She slams them shut, but she has had the chances.

I pray. I believe I free will so praying for God to "make" her do anything is wasted effort in my opinion. I pray doors keep opening and hope she chooses to walk through them. I look around me every day and remind myself of my blessings, literally giving thanks for individual people and things. Gradually, her life became less and less the focus of mine.

I still have my legs knocked out from under me. (Her arrest this past weekend brought me to my knees.) But the sooner I get back up, the quicker I bounce back. And it gets easier each round. I am damn near a prize fighter by now.

 

[Copabanana]

I hear what your saying, but how I do I get to that place

Everything Walrus has advised is true.

And I have every confidence you will arrive at that place.

To expect yourself to be there now is cruel. It is as if you are making yourself responsible for the act of your daughter, not yourself. I see you with a whip over your head saying: "get over it already."

Grief occurs in stages. Look at Kubler-Ross work about death and dying. You are experiencing grief. You cannot jump over the process.

It is not that I am quibbling over this. And it is not that your life will not be richer and better if you are over it. But it will happen in its own time. Get help. Get support. But be kind to yourself. Give yourself time.

 

[TheWalrus]

One other thing: being here helped me a lot. We often can't see the things we are closest to, the image is distorted by our emotions. But I could come here, see others in similar situations, and clearly see things I couldn't see in myself. In the middle of giving others' advice and support, I could see the parallels to my situation which allowed me to step back and not let my emotions and instinct drive the car. I could use the same reasoning I offered others. Follow my own advice, so to speak.

 

[Copabanana]

"I don't know if I remember how to live this life. I don't know where to start." I started with laundry. That became dishes that became going to work that became...you get the idea.

Walrus, you inspire me.

Each of our situations while similar are in important aspects different. What I can think of in D's situation is that she is a victim of a crime, perpetrated by her daughter.

Each of us too has a prior life that interacts with the current terrible situation. In my own case I dealt with my son at the same time as my mother was dying and as I grieved her death.

What I am certain of is that D, in her own time, helped by a therapist, and groups like Al Anon, if she chooses, will work this through.

There are many reasons why a person would hang onto anger or grief. These have to be explored or otherwise worked through. Sometimes we hold onto these emotions because they serve us. They feel protective. Like you say, Walrus, this may not be the case. All of this can be spoken about with a therapist.

 

[Copabanana]

I could use the same reasoning I offered others. Follow my own advice, so to speak.

This is sage advise. As you post you are working out your own issues, working your way through your own grief.

 

[Sister's Keeper]

I think also the other issue with Devastated is she doesn't have answers as to why.

I think that for a lot of us here, at least I know myself, are dealing with addicts. My sister is an addict. I know why she stole from me, she wanted to get high. Although it still made me very angry I can put it aside, I can say, "It's the drugs, she does this horrible $hit because of the drugs." For Devastated there is no reasoning, no impetus behind it. As far as she knows her daughter is not an addict, or owed money to dealers.

The other thing I think makes it easier, for at least me, is the detachment. Devastated wants to and is trying to maintain a close relationship with her child. She wants to see her, she wants her to be part of her life. I think it is very much harder to rebuild or repair a relationship when your trust has been so badly broken. With my sister I have spent, all total, maybe 2 hours with her in the last 4 years. I have purposely distanced myself emotionally and physically. I have put myself in a place where I can't be hurt by her again.

It is almost like a cheating spouse. How to you go on from here? Will things ever be the same? Will I ever be able to look at you and not immediately think of the hurt you have caused me?

Now my issue isn't with my child, but, I also think as parents (I'm just gathering this from group) that there is a certain amount of guilt. I think a lot of parents, in the beginning while they are still trying to wade through this, think "What did I do wrong that my child turned out like this?"

I think like any harmed relationship that counseling, both individual and together, will help.