Feeling Sad---Son is Homeless

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Feeling Sad, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Not everyone will agree with me, but the phrase "hit rock bottom" is more appropriate for people with addictions. Mental illness means that what works for most people, doesn't work.

    Sometimes, we do things for our kids, for US. And that is OK, too, as long as we can live with the outcome. If you know that a small amount of money in his account will be used appropriately (i.e. food), AND seeing the transactions go through helps YOU cope with the situation, then I see nothing wrong with it.

    Enabling is where we do things for our kids and resent it. This doesn't sound like enabling either.
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  2. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Schizophrenia, as I read about it and understand it, is nothing like drug addiction. He can not hit a rock bottom and know how to help himself because he doesn't realize he is sick until he is treated with medicated and back in our world. I would not worry about the $50 in his account. You can't make a schizophrenic understand what is going on around him or that people are not plotting against him or that his medications aren't poisin. A person with a personality disorder can rationally get help as he is not psychotic. A bipolar person is normally not psychotic either and can opt for help. Depression, yes. I have no idea how anyone can expect somebody who has anongosia to ever help himself. Literally that is mind blindness. They don't know what is really happening and w hat is just in their mind.Until he does something that gets him admitted to a hospital, he can't be helped and he can't help himself. This is NOT drug addiction. Don't treat it like it is. This is NOT bipolar, depression etc. Don't act as if he knows he is sick and can change that, but is being stubborn. That is not the sad illness of sshizophrenia. Maybe people will understand it more if it is compared to Alzheimers. Nobody expect a patient afflicted with Alzheimer to hit a rock bottom or be able to make good decisions. They are too out of it. That's the same with schizophrenia.

    I would not worry one wit about whether he will get a job or not. Get him on SSI. He is disabled. If he is treated, there are organizations that help the disabled get jobs that they can handle. I work at one place like this---Goodwill. In my case it is a temporary job, but not for everyone and we have several people with schizoaffective and schizophrenia working. They are stable though. And they also don't work full time and collect SSI, but they are doing well. To worry about a job when your son is not able to tell this world from his fantasy work does not make any sense. I'd want to get guardianship over him as well. I have no doubt you'd be given it...or a third party can get it. He is not capable of making his own decisions. That doesn't mean he has to live with you. He obviously can't. But you will have access to any health records he gets and can give input f you are the guardian. It's small, but it's better than nothing. I encourage doing what you can to help him from a distance, then try to let go. You can't control his illness. You know this.

    Alzheimers. Think of him as an Alzheimers patient and have the same compassion. On the other hand, if they did not allow Alzheimers patients to be involuntarily treated, they would also wander the streets, unaware they are sick. Our laws favor Alzheimers/disfavor schizophrenics, which is just plain irrational on the parts of those who make these laws. I am thinking most with Alzheimers however do have guardians. Perhaps that is the difference.

    Many people who like to give advice, do not understand that schizophrenia is THAT bad. When I was young, I spent ten weeks in a very good university psychiatrc ward that SIS voluntarily signed into. I had severe depression, but I was still able to witness in horror those who suffered worse...from schizophrenia and other thought disorders.

    Some people may not understand the severity of schizophrenia. They give advice not understanding that when a person hallucinates, he does NOT understand that the hallucination is not real. The advice giver may think that one can learn to ignore the loud, pelting, forever voices while in the throes of a breakdown. They can't. They may not understand that they may not even know the date, the time, their own names sometimes. They may totally believe, without doubt, that they are Jesus Christ or President Obama or they may see, feel and hear that demons are inside of them or bugs are crawling on them eating their skin. That terrifies them as they think it is really happening. I read one can also have smelling and touching hallucinations. They can smell waste product that is not really there, but to them it is real. They can feel somebody violating theier body although nobody is really touching them. Some become catatonic and can not move. I saw one when I was in the hospital. She stood in place, hardly blinking. To sit her down, staff had to bend her knees and carry her. She improved with medications and was talking five days later, but it was both fascinating and frightening to watch this poor woman being alive inside a body that would not obey her.

    Again, this is nothing like drug addiction or willful criminal behavior. Don't treat it like it is.That won't stop the police from arresting him, but then he will get treatment. Sadly, jails are our new psychiatric institutions and they are not equipped to handle it, but it's better than nothing.

    Your son sounds about as ill as it gets with schizophrenia. Did you contact NAMI to hear about any options you may have? I have read a lot about schizophrenia as it interests me, but I do not know anybody who has it so I really don't understand first hand what a parent or other loved one can do for a child who is that incredibly sisck. NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill) can help you more.

    Hugs and I'm so sorry for this entire situation. I do not believe Touch Love is the answer for schizophrenia at all.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
  3. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Feeling, I agree with the others. I think it is brilliant idea to leave $50 in his account.

    Feeling, from an earlier post I thought we had come to the conclusion that he was seeking some help in a limited way.

    I worked with Paranoid Schizophrenic men. They do seek out help from people they are not afraid of.
    The goal for us is to not die from grief or collapse and lose our will.

    I believe we are in horribly impossible situations because we would readily die if we knew it would transform our sons into functioning people. That willingness of ours to self-destruct to help them is always a danger zone. For our sons.

    If you did not fear your son could hurt or kill you or your other child, and end up in worse danger you would bring him back to the house. So the $50 is your price. What you need to not cave.

    In your house your son will always be more vulnerable rather than less. When you die who will care for him? Your children? Outside he will make some life or another. He already is.

    You have to do enough, so that you do not cave and bring him back to the house. Looked at that way the $50 is like a highway toll nothing more, so that the vehicle keeps going. Except you are the vehicle. You are paying the $50 so that you keep going. That is your price.
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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  4. Feeling Sad

    Feeling Sad Active Member

    Thank you very much. I am feeling that it is the right thing.

    I am seeing 2 therapists, each weekly, because I am doing so poorly. I cannot go on antidepressants because I have had simple partial seizures after brain surgery to remove a benign brain tumor. I would stay awake, but would lose all feeling down my right side for about 10 minutes. I felt like "The Night of the Living Dead", an old movie I had seen.

    Now I am better, but still get numb at times of stress, like when my son used to throw things with such force that they would go through the vinyl flooring to the cement... So, my son living in my home was bad for me physically and emotionally. Antidepressants can lower your threshold to seizures...so no antidepressants.

    One of the therapists is very severe and wants me to take all of the money out. She also wants me to take all of his furniture and things from his room and put them in storage. It has only been 6 weeks. The restraining order says that he can come back with the police one time to get his things. He probably won't do this, but I do not want to remove them. I have boxed his things. I am using his room for storage.

    She also wants me to go one step further. She wants me to put the storage in his name and and have them leave a key for him at the front desk. She wants the charge of the storage, let's say $30 or $40, to be automatically debited from his account each month. She said that he would see where it was going. It would be on him to let his things go or keep paying.

    He has no place to live. He is only taking $20 or $40 out at a time. I do not want to do this to him. He has enough on his plate. Why add to his delusions about me? This would make me a much larger 'target' for him. Just the thought, is causing fear! I am even seriously considering lying to my therapust. Healthy, right? Paying to lie...

    The other therapist is much, much kinder and agrees with me. She understands why I do not want to put his things in storage. She is a lot more hopeful about my son's prognosis and future. I can only go to her 6 more times because she is not under my plan. Sadly, it is just temporary.

    The stricter therapist says that he is no longer my son and that there is nothing more that I can do for him. The nicer one says that he is still your son, but the illness is making him act this way. She says that he could get better with treatment. The other one feels that his prognosis is very poor...even with treatment. She feels that he is too far gone.

    They both say that being on the streets makes their symptoms get worse and that he could then be brought in if he is acting very scary to others or acts aggressively. Usually, they do not seek help...but some do because they get tired living on the streets.

    They both agree that he could not have lived in an apartment or a room the way that he is now. Too dangerous for others. I was asked how I would feel if he hurt or killed somebody. He could have delusions and hallucinations about the other tenants. I was feeling guilty, of course, about not having tried this earlier.

    I tried it when he came back 9 years ago after living in his car for a year, but he never let us in or answered the phone. He did not go to school, as planned, or work, or see friends. He moved back home after 4 months. At that time, I did not know that he was having delusions. Much later, he told me that a strange man kept following him wherever he went when he lived in his car in another state. There was a missing persons report filed by me at that time. The police would talk to him about calling me, but he said he should, but couldn't.

    My brother's ex girlfriend had the man above her, in her gated condo, break her door in with an axe. Thankfully, she was not home. He had delusions about her being his exgirlfriend. He had pictures of her on the walls with her face crossed out.

    At the shelter, they are supposed to be very good at counseling people. I am hoping in time...
    Ten years ago when he was homeless, he stayed under the radar. He was not as bad then and even did some temp agency work. He slept in his car.

    He is the one who has always turned down my suggestions for SSI. He does not think that he is sick. He still thinks, on some level, that he could work. His delusions prevent it. I know that he couldn't work without treatment.

    I cannot do anything now to help him get SSI or treatment. I cannot get a conservatorship until he is diagnosed. He has to be brought into a hospital and held. Then I could pursue it. It is still very difficult to do and prove in court, even if he had numerous hospitalizations.

    My youngest son is his contact person because he is not on the restraining order. He is safe by proxy. He would have had to file his own order and he has never been threatened. We got him a phone, but he let it die. Probably worried about spies... My youngest son said that he is probably mad at him because he let the police into the house. Also, during the last 10 years, he has never called either of my other sons and only called me 2 or 3 times.

    My youngest son could be his conservator, if I couldn't because of the restraining order. I do not know if I can now.

    I am hoping that he will get help or be picked up by the police. Again, they would contact my youngest son if he is brought to a hospital for evaluation or arrested with the missing persons report in place. The log of threats and violent behavior, compiled by me, could be used in deciding if there will be an involuntary hold.

    Most of the parents in NAMI did not give them money, including the director. They wanted them to unravel quicker. Most of their adult children were brought in and subsequently helped. But, not all of them. I know of one in my two support groups who's son is still homeless after 8 years without money being given.

    My only contact is the bank account. It is all that I have. I never thought that it would turn out this way, but I had no choice. He was very dangerous in my house and he would never have left without the police. I wish that I had been present. At first, the police said yes and then, no. My youngest son said that it would have made it much worse. I just wish that I could have talked to him...one last time.
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    First, I want to comment upon the difference of opinion between the two therapists. Each therapist is a person. They will all differ somewhat in how they see things. Even those that had the same training, the same philosophical basis, are all different people, with different strengths and needs as individuals. It will change everything.
    At the end of the day, all of this is about you. What you can do. What you need. What you can tolerate.

    Nobody is helping you if they do not consider this. You. There are no abstracts here.

    You have to find a path that you can follow. A way that you can live. Nobody can decide for you. The measure of all things is in you.

    This is going to be a path of finding yourself, of knowing who you are. You may never have known yourself as you will come to know you and your needs. That is the gift of this. We are destroyed down to our very studs. And we come to know what we are made of. And truly where we want to and need to go.

    A therapist who is not considering all this, is not understanding who you are and what you need to walk through this.

    It is not clear which of the therapists is worthy of listening to. It may not matter. The person who needs to be listened to is you. You will decide.

    Sometimes kindness can be a bad thing. It can strengthen the very thing that needs to be eradicated, rooted out.

    I am kind. I am not always strong.
    Now this I can comment upon. This is pure garbage, to me. How in the world is your son not your son????? This will never, ever be so.

    There may be nothing more that you can or should do for him, but he is still your son. He knows you are his Mother.
    This I know from experience. With actual Paranoid Schizophrenic men. When they feel safe, and contained, they can bond.

    I worked with troubled men. This was the level of care right above acute hospitalization. I would guess a third of the men had a diagnosis of Schizophrenia, Paranoid type.

    I know first hand that with care and love, and containment and security, these men can stabilize and they can bond. They can see logic. Logic is different than insight and judgment. They can see what keeps them safe and what does not. They can find some contentment in themselves with hobbies and exercise. They can feel cared for.

    To me, that is a lot. There have been times in my own life when I have had way less.
    How is this person really to know this?

    I would say this.

    It sounds like what this mean therapist is selling, you are not buying.

    The only thing that matters here, is you. You are the consumer. You get to decide.

    If you cannot hear that person (whether they are right or wrong matters not at all) that person needs to be terminated. And another person found that you can and will hear.

    You are not willing to hear that your son is not your son. It is not helpful to you. That is the proof of the pudding. However right is that person does not count. Let them write an article and tell other people. It is not helping you.

    There has to be another therapist. Ask the nice one if she can give you several names as alternatives, that would be covered on your insurance. Or change your insurance plan. If you are a teacher, there should be a selection of plans. Or go someplace with a sliding scale. Jewish Family Service, for example, is in most Metropolitan areas. They do not care whether or not you are Jewish. Their people are competent.
    That makes sense. That is not necessarily a bad thing. If it can lead to something that is better.
    This makes me feel sad.

    This is why that therapist is wrong to tell you he is no longer your son. He will always be your son and you will always be his mother.

    I would love for you to be able to take some art classes. And to express in art your anguish and love. It is as big as the sky and as deep as the sea. I wish you could see it and feel it like I do.

    After my Mother died, I took an online ART class, before I really crashed and burned. My grief turned into the most exquisite expressions of maternal love. Nobody can ever take that away from us. Or should.

    That love is infinite. It will outlive rocks.

    You will see your son again. I know it. He will live. I believe that. You will see him again. And again.

    I am more worried about you, actually. Or maybe I am projecting here and it is my own self who hangs in the balance. Probably that.

    We must find a way to have compassion for ourselves, to hold ourselves through this period of extended agony.

    For me, it will be Art and textiles with other women, I hope. And physical activity such as walking and swimming and dancing.

    I am still in bed. But I will get up.

    Think about what you need FS. That is key here. What you need from a therapist. What you need to give yourself.

    We are here for you. Remember.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  6. Feeling Sad

    Feeling Sad Active Member

    Thank you, so much. I am crying, but again, the good type.

    You are right. I need to do what will make me feel the best in this horribly sad situation and to find a way to carry on.

    I miss him so much. He lived here most of his life. There were some good times when we would go places together or watch t.v. He would love to cook fantastic meals. Usually at 10:00 at night, while leaving a gigantic mess, but it was still a nice time spent together. I feel so sad that he cannot cook anymore.

    I do not miss the violence and the constant 'walking on eggshells', but the house is so very strange and quiet. I am still trying to get used to be able to put my breakables out now. I do not have to keep my bedroom door locked. I feel safer with the alarm system, but still at times, I think I see him from the corner of me eye. Sometimes it scares me. Sometimes, it makes me profoundly sad he is gone. I am a basket case! I truly do not know how I am ever going to be able to go back to work. I know that I will find the strength, though, I always do.

    I bet my coworkers will want to know about the wonderful 'diet' I have been on. They do not know about my son. Too much stigma, being a teacher. Should I call it The Depression Diet???
  7. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    The worst thing for me is that after my Mother died, I did not have a job to go back to. I had quit to care for her.

    And with the unrelenting pain with my son, I kept falling back and back again, with nothing to get me back up.

    I can hear it in your posts FS, you are itching to go back to work. Good for you.

    I felt sad about your son cooking huge meals at 10 pm sharing them with the kitchen a huge mess. I felt sad too about your involuntarily startle response to the perceived shadows in your own home.

    Nobody in their own home should feel so afraid. You paid a huge price for those occasional dinners with your son, FS. You were traumatized. Now is the time to heal.

    I believe that you will again share dinners with your son. I do not know when or under what circumstances, but I believe you will. I believe in love, and so do you.

    To shelter your son when you were afraid is not part of what love is.

    Read again my last post, please. I would be grateful if you considered my thinking about the therapists.

    We are here for you FS. You are doing great. You are very strong. And I think a wonderful Mother.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You have two therapists currently, and the one that is a better fit is limited.

    You do not need a "hard" therapist. Your situation will not be improved with "tough love" - not for him, and not for you. While you still have the one that is a better fit, can you find a different therapist who is covered by your plan, who might be a better fit?
  9. Feeling Sad

    Feeling Sad Active Member

    Crying again...Thank you for your kind words! You are right. I need to have hope that I will see him again to carry on. The mental health system is just so difficult. He does not realize he is sick and thus, will not seek treatment.

    I have to realize that I have no control over this. I keep thinking, over and over again, what if I had done this...said this...been nicer...been stricter...The list goes on.

    I am going to check into a new therapist. I do not need to feel that I am failing her somehow or that I have to lie. I think that Jewish Services are just for children under 18. I have worked with them before for many of my students. They are great.

    You are right. I do have a right to feel safe in my own house. I am still trying to get used to it.

    He would get mad if I spoke to my middle son who is away at college. He opened his door once and threw a large glass bottle out. It shattered all over the place. I started to talk to my other son as if I was speaking to one of my friends who teaches. He came out of his room once, and could still hear my other son's voice and then...got violent. I do not think I realized how truly scary it was. Unfortunately, I numbed out...my coping strategy from ptsd.

    It wasn't my kitchen anymore. I just paid $11,000 last year to have the ceilings raised, but I did not use it. He would leave gigantic messes on the floors and counters. When I tried to clean it up in the morning, I was almost late for work. He would purposely pour things on the floor after I had mopped. If I threw away some scrap of garlic or a taco hot sauce packet, he would take something nice of mine from around the house and throw it away. I would not notice until weeks later, when the trash was already picked up.

    There were times he would just take things...I don't know why. It is like that game they have at baby showers, where they give you one minute to study the things on a tray...and you need to try to remember what was there. He smeared tooth paste all over once. I still don't know why. He kicked in furniture and smashed things. I still don't know why. Three computers, a t.v., 2 remote contols, the land line phone, light fixtures...the list goes on.

    He took a small girl bust. I asked him where it was. He said that he would "help me look for it". After he was removed, I found it in his room. I was never allowed to go in his room. The face and eyes were scribbled on with a marker. Was that me?

    I will keep on trying...we all will. It is very difficult to actually think about myself. I just feel jumpy, anxious, and very, very sad. I wish that I could numb out the pain, but I can't.

    Thank you again. It is so nice to have support and know that people care. Thank you for all of your wonderful insight and inspiration! I always feel better after reading this site. I am so glad that I found you guys!
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    That is not so. It is for children through the elderly.

    I think my son smeared stuff, too, purposefully. When he last stayed here, found cut oranges face down and splattered throughout the breakfast room on the floor and walls. Everything sticky. Something like that could not have happened except on purpose. I hope my son is not a Paranoid Schizophrenic. It's bad enough at is is.

    I am glad you feel supported. I have never heard a bad thing about Jewish Family Services. No matter which one.
  11. Feeling Sad

    Feeling Sad Active Member

    I am having a very difficult job trying to deal with guilt. I know in my heart that I tried my best, but I cannot stop preseverating about it. Over and over and over again! (Copa, this answers your question about why people up so late!)

    Could I have done something different? Tried something different? Been less strict? Been more strict? Tried a soft sell for going to the doctors...or a hard sell?

    I miss him so much. I am in disbelief that this even happened....that my life was in possible danger...from my son! What could I have said or done differently?

    I know in my heart of hearts, that he was not getting better here. I also know that he did not have a chance of improving while I sheltered him and allowed violence. He now has a chance to improve...but I am now out of the equation. I will not know.

    I was thinking, if he got SSI, it would show up in the joint bank account...unless he got a new one so that I wouldn't know. Also, down the line, it would show money coming in from a part time job. Also it might show the company... Do you see why I can't sleep???

    Right now, I just know that he has gone to the shelter and does not want me to know. I had asked them to give him a message to contact my youngest son if he needs help with housing. I just said that it was an intervention that went badly.

    We bought him a cell phone that my youngest son gave him that last day. My youngest son put a sticky note with his number on the box and left 2 texts on it to contact him if he needed anything, but he let the phone die...

    He is probably just using the shelter for showers, but I am hoping for counseling, diagnosis, SSI, housing, etc. Also the lab/immunology bill I received, I was thinking, was probably for a T.B. screening that is required to go to the shelter. But, I was hoping for ... a physical, labs, and possible diagnosis.

    Boy! I sure am in La La Land. I need to be in...the Land of Nod!
  12. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    FS, just following along here and catching up. You had asked about the money in the account. I agree with the rest of the posters that if that makes you feel better, leave some money in the account.

    Also, this is a very hard thing to navigate, a person with severe mental illness who does not know reality. As we have often said on many many threads on this forum, we can all eventually see clearly how not enabling someone is the "right" thing to do, setting limits, boundaries, tough love, if you will, unless the person doesn't know reality, is psychotic, is so very ill to that point.

    As you have posted, this is your situation.

    So, how do you decide what to do and what not to do? He is your precious son. Just typing that sentence connects with my heart and my soul. I so understand that.

    Isn't the real issue compliance? He will not comply with any of the possible treatments (although I know it is very hard to treat schizophrenia effectively) and he won't comply with your rules for your house or society's rules and laws that are in place for all of us. And the mental health system is very broken. Our jails are now our mental hospitals, and that is so not right.

    So..again..what to do? A person who threatens to kill you and takes steps to do harm to you is a person you cannot have in your house. It seems to me, that is your starting point. That is a clear place for you to stand. And even if you wanted to set your own safety aside---which truly "gets you nowhere" in terms of helping him---you have another son to consider. Again, this is a clear line to draw, and you have drawn it, as hard as it is.

    Maslow's hierarchy of needs---physical survival first. You must survive.

    So living with the awful not knowing---where is he? Is he okay? Is he surviving somehow? What will happen next? is what you are now grappling with. It is very very hard to live like this...in fact, we have to LEARN to live like this. It is not human nature to just let go of people, places and things. Our human selves want to control our environments and the people around us. Especially the people we love. Oh, we have the best of intentions, but we still want to manage, fix and control. It is an illusion, because we have never been successful at doing it and we never will be.

    Like you said, your son will likely get picked up and go to jail. Jail is not a bad place at times for people who are in crisis---compared with the street. There are three meals and a place to sleep. Jail is a "box" with very black and white limited rules. For many people, that is a relief and a good thing.

    Will it be for your son? I don't know

    I wish with all of my heart there would be a way for people who are so sick like your precious son, to be gently and kindly forced to a place where they could get as much help as is possible. I know that scenario doesn't really exist much in our country right now.

    I believe you are doing one of the hardest things there ever has been to do. Please, please, get every bit of help that you can get and make that help your part-time job. Help for you. I know you have therapists, and that is good. Please seek out other programs, books, resources, tools, ideas for finding a small place of peace for yourself to stand.

    We care here, and we are with you in this. You are not alone. We are here. Warm hugs this morning.
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  13. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    One more thing, FS. You keep wondering if you could have done something, anything, one thing, many things, a million things differently, if that would have changed this outcome today.

    You did the best you could do. In every situation.

    That is all anyone can ever do.

    We want to walk back over the land behind us, turning over every. single. rock. to see what is there. What COULD I HAVE DONE THAT I DID NOT DO? It is the most obsessive thinking. It is thinking about the past, which is gone. That makes us sad too.

    When you knew differently about your son, you adjusted and acted differently. Like you are doing now. You can only and always do the best you can do right now.

    We are not perfect. This is part of our work---accepting ourselves, with all of our own limitations. Working to accept ourselves is one very part of this journey of letting go of people, places and things. We can't control or fix or manage any of it.

    Your son is in the hands of a Higher Power. Whatever that means and looks like to you. This I believe. That Higher Power wants the very best, the most and the highest, for you and for your precious son.

    When I was completely bereft and filled with continuous despair about my own son, I created this visual for myself. I saw the God of my understanding walking with my son down a path...away from me. Away from me. The God of my understanding had his arm around my son's shoulders. They were walking slowly, and He was talking to my son as they walked. They walked and walked...away...getting smaller and smaller. This Perfect Love was and is walking with my son. This Perfect Love is more than I can ever be.

    I did not run around them and get in front of them to stop their walking. I didn't follow along behind them. I stood and I watched them walk away.

    My son and your son have their own journey to walk. You and I have our own journey to walk. We cannot walk another person's journey, no matter how much we want to walk it.

    I hope this image might give you some comfort too, at some point.
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  14. SeekingStrength

    SeekingStrength Well-Known Member

    Hi FS,

    ^^^^^^ Feeling, i hope you take this on as your part-time job and include reports about what you are doing for yourself.
    Keep posting. It helps, doesn't it?

    You will feel a little better until - you will feel a lot better. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Those COM posts are wonderful.

    Let us know how you are doing today, please.

  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    OK, Feeling. I feel you need to make yourself a project. Not that you are not a perfectly fine person. But to feel better some things have to change.

    First, the agony has to go. It will not help. For you to ever see your son, you have to survive, too.

    Killing yourself off does not meet that goal.

    What you are doing here is perseverating:
    Beating yourself and accusing yourself gives you the illusion of control. If I take all of the guilt for the situation, maybe my son will be spared.

    It does not work.
    I think I understand. You were forced to take a desperate action, which you might never have done, had you not been forced.

    Being as if forced, you did something that everything against you had resisted. Emotions: guilt, fear, love, even shame, maybe, would never have been overcome if not for the desperate danger.

    But they were.

    Of course you cannot believe it. In a moment's crisis you decided 3 things: I need to stand up for my family. I will not allow my son to kill me or to kill his brother, my son. I will do whatever I need to do that this does not happen.

    There you are. Talk about a place to stand. You stood up Feeling. Not everybody is capable of this. Start here, Feeling. What does that mean to you, that you stood up. That you took that stand for yourself and all of you? Who is that person, Feeling? What does she need? What is important to her? Introduce yourself to her.
    FS, your life was in danger from your son, for a long time. On some level you knew it. One day you had to face it. You did.
    But FS, you are in your own equation. For the first time in perhaps your whole life, you have the potential to be present to yourself.
    I love this. If you look at it one way, your son is on an adventure. He may be frightened but he is engaged. He is engaged in life. He may be so focused on what he has to do, what he must do, that he is less symptomatic.

    The thing is we do not know. When he was in your room in your house, you knew. But at what cost to him? In that room he lived as if in a Zoo. He may have had people who loved him, near...but he was confined. His life was defined. His symptoms increased. With all the safety you gave him (at greast cost)it did not help him. Face it Feeling.

    Right now you are choosing to go after and blame yourself. For everything. Fast. Slow. Cold. Hot. Up. Down. Old. Young. Early. Late. To infinity. Every conceivable modifier, whether adjective or adverb you accuse yourself up. Soon you will tire. What will you have accomplished? Oh, I forgot, other parts of speech too. Here. There. You have a choice, to stop it. I do too.

    Your symptoms, now may decrease some. He has tasks. He has a purpose. To live. He has to organize himself. He has to contain himself. He may be distracted from his demons.

    The thing is right now, you are trying on some level to offer yourself to suffer, in place of him. Like some kind of reverse voodoo doll, you are putting pins in yourself, to draw the pain and distress to you.

    For guilt, for the sense of control, to protect him...whatever. It will not work. It does not work. It is a primitive mechanism. Find new ones.

    You know what to do. So do I. Do it.
  16. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member


    I disagree with the 'severe' therapist.

    How can anyone know that your son is 'too far gone'? Medications have never even been tried with him! There are many medications that were not available back when your sister was diagnosed. Many people live normal lives with medications, therapy, sheltered living situations through social services etc.

    And we all know the story of the college prof. who was brilliant, yet schizophrenic, (cant remember his name right now) who, after getting diagnosed and treated, was able to live a pretty normal life.

    My daughter has been with the same psychiatrist since her diagnosis. Her insurance switched and they no longer had this doctor on her plan. My daughter did not want to loose this person she had been with, and the psy. and my daughter worked and fought with the insurance company to get a waiver to allow her to keep going to this doctor and having it covered at the same rate as in-network. Maybe you can talk to your insurance and have the office do the same. It is worth a try.
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I just did this. I appealed and I won.
  18. Feeling Sad

    Feeling Sad Active Member

    Thank you for coming to my aid with those kind words of encouragement. I am truly blessed to find you! Even though you are going through you own tribulations...you always find time to help others.

    You are right, Copa, to shelter my son when I was afraid should not be a part of love. You said that I was forced to act and take a stand. Yes, I do need to introduce myself to that woman. I would not call it bravery...more like extreme fear from my childhood with my schizophrenic sister. But, I need to 'meet' her. She helped me now, perhaps, even saving my youngest son's life, my life, AND I like to believe, my ill son's life!

    COM, you are right that my youngest son's and my survival is a good starting point. Your visual with your son walking with God...beautiful, peaceful, and yes, very calming. It brought tears to my eyes. Thank you that gift!

    Apple, you are wonderful to remind me that medications have never been used on him. Yes, some are able to live reasonably normal lives with medications and therapy. Thank you for that very hopeful reminder.

    Seeking, I DO plan on continuing to post and yes, it does help! You wonderful comrades are a Godsend!

    InsaneChn, you are correct. I don't need tough love...nor does my son. I am going to get another therapist through my coverage. I already feel bad enough. I cannot let go that fast...maybe not ever.

    I still have the small piece of jute that he wore around his waist as a belt. I bought him a nice black leather belt, but he never wore it...just a skinny piece of jute. When I came inside after he was gone, it was left on the antique dresser outside the door to his room. The police had grabbed and pulled him out of his room. He was in his boxers and they let him put on his jeans. Was he rushing or so scared that he did not use it? Or was he thinking, perhaps, that using jute as a belt would not appear 'normal'. Finding that small piece of jute broke my heart...

    I know that my son, before he was taken hostage by this hellish, insidious disease, would not want us to be hurt or afraid. He would never, ever wish that upon us! He was the nicest and kindest son a mother could ever have. I never had a problem ONCE with him before his illness. Never.

    I would not want him to have to realize that he had hurt his family in the throes of a psychotic episode, once he received treatment and got in touch with reality.

    I saved my son from himself...and his possible actions. I saved my son from possibly going to prison. My son did not want to kill me. He kept saying to his voices that he didn't want to kill me. It must of been horrible for him. I can only imagine what his voices were saying to him.

    Yes, I love to hold on very tight to the hope that he might be better out there. Yes, he is no longer in his confined room. I shouldn't think that he is more afraid out there...maybe it is a bit better. He has to be determined, strong, and focused. Maybe, hopefully, his voices are not able to torment him as much. Maybe, being out there, he is more busy. Going places and trying to plan for his future.

    I have read that adult schizophrenics do well not living at home. They are not dependent on their mother and have a chance to feel better about themselves. It can't be healthy to have your mom as your only friend. I hope his 'adventure' is freeing on some level.

    I get more worried at night...but I will try to be positive. He is like a child in many, many ways, but he is also a man in there somewhere with choices to make. I pray that God holds him safe in his arms and keeps him from harm.

    Thank you to all...
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  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    When psychotic people face a situation where they must survive, their behavior and thinking can become organized and focused to meet the challenge.

    You have objective evidence that he is doing for himself. He is accessing money. He is obtaining some kind of medical assistance, probably to secure housing.

    These are positives that cannot be overlooked. He seems to be doing what he can to meet his needs. There is hope.

    There is no guarantee for any of us. Not for me, for you or any other parent on this board.

    We have to find a way to live with that. We have no choice.
    It is the hardest for me right when I wake up until I get out of bed.

    If you look at peoples posts, a lot of us are having trouble late at night and early in the morning. I do not know why that is so.

    For you is it because you fear that your son is more vulnerable at night? Or is it something else?

    Thank you for sharing about your son.

  20. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    There was hope for this man.

    Psychologist Overcomes Paranoid Schizophrenia

    Frederick Frese's astonishing story is simply this: Thirty years ago, he was locked up in an Ohio mental hospital, dazed and delusional, with paranoid schizophrenia. Twelve years later, he had become [a] chief psychologist for the very mental hospital system that had confined him.

    The following is a story published about Dr. Fred Frese, an amazing individual who also happens to suffer from schizophrenia. Dr. Frese is a member of the Board of Directors of the Treatment Advocacy Center.

    Frederick Frese's astonishing story is simply this: Thirty years ago, he was locked up in an Ohio mental hospital, dazed and delusional, with paranoid schizophrenia. Twelve years later, he had become [a] chief psychologist for the very mental hospital system that had confined him.

    Along the way, despite 10 other hospitalizations, he married, had four children and earned a master's degree and doctorate.

    Continued online.
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