Feeling Sad---Son is Homeless

[Copabanana]

I do not feel very wise or capable today, but gratefully, I acknowledge you guys who are here, with wisdom and capacity in spades.

walking across the school playground in Bel Air wearing a sparkly princess costume for the Halloween Carnival. I was truly happy. I had no fears. I liked my life.

I love this Feeling. I was a cowgirl. Or on May Day with ribbons streaming. I was among the loveliest of children. My sister stole all of the pictures, my own and my mother's. She probably cut them up in pieces. (I was able to face only lately that what she is trying to do is exorcise me from the family history. Who does she think she is, the Queen? This is painful to believe that somebody I love may want to destroy me.) But hey? What can I do? I exist only in those years in my own memory.

I probably will never see my son ever again and he is living in a tortured reality.

This is one of the thoughts, Feeling, that you are trying to cut off at the pass. First, we have been through this. You do not know the future. *We barely know the present. I do not even think we know how your son experiences his reality. Yes, he is frightened. But to him the danger comes from outside of him, over which he feels some degree of control. But the thing is, and you know this, your suffering with him will not help him. Just like my own self-destruction does not empower my son. Which is what wisernow here reminds us both:

Would you do your best to protect them, bathe them, nourish them, hold them, love them? Of course you would. I think your souls are calling out to you both, begging please take care of me, please love me again, please wrap your heart and spirits around me and hold me close.

This is exactly where I am right now because I only came to this realization this week, that it is morally wrong to willfully and knowingly destroy myself or not save myself. Who knew?
Thank you wisernow.

Take back your strength, your soul. Fight for it as hard as you have been fighting for your sons!

Yes. I get the concept but it takes a while to pivot and then to build up speed. I am right now in a slow turn, like an ocean liner. But at least I know I am making the turn.

This concept of a pivot only occurred to me this week, by reading posts. I am uncertain, how and why, which posts finally knocked sense into my head, but I got it, finally.

Perhaps you will see that as you become stronger...so will they! When you fight for yourself...you are also fighting for them. This is a battle for your life and theirs.

I love this, wisernow. Every word so right. Thank you everybody.

 

[Feeling Sad]

Thank you Wisernow. That was very well-written. I understand it cognitively, but just not with my heart, yet.

Copa, I like your analogy of turning like an ocean liner. But, with column dressing, it is more like a small yaught.

I found out today that my middle son stopped going to school and working at his research job. He is homeless again.

For the past 3 weeks, he has only texted back 1 or 2 sentences every 7 or 10 days. I went up to Morro Bay to try to meet him over Spring Break. But, he said that he was sorry and he could not drive down from Monterey Bay. I respected his space and spent the 4 days alone. I remembered that the last time I went up there it made matters much worse. I was hoping that he couldn't see me because he was busy with school.

He finally got a prescription for antibiotics just about a month ago. He did not give them time. Maybe, he never started. He had just 3 more months to graduation.

I texted him almost every day for the last 2 weeks. I feared that he was dead. I feared that he had committed suicide. I cannot tell you how that felt. Then, a week ago, he texted that he was very sorry. Just 1 sentence. I felt like a part of me died inside.

Then today, when I texted him, he texted that he stopped going to school and working. He then texted that his phone was dying. Two sentences.

I wanted to go up there, but I dont know where he is. He was homeless for 6 months before, but he was working and going to school. Now, I don't know what he is doing. Last time, he mentioned that he wanted to throw his phone away.

My youngest techie son put location devices on both of his older brothers' cell phones. My ill son just let it die and never once charged his new phone. But, my middle son likes to hike and take photos, so hopefully he will keep his phone.

I am numb. I got into another competitive summer teacher seminar and booked my flight, but now I don't want to go. I don't want to do anything. I can't push myself anymore. I still have to teach. Just about 40 more days. Then, I can fall apart. I am numb inside. I can actually feel myself change. I am withdrawing. I am not broken, but my spirit or will is diminished.

I cannot tell you how sad I am.

 

[Copabanana]

turning like an ocean liner. But, with column dressing, it is more like a small yaught.

Funny. Feeling sad. I will call you now Funny Feeling sad.

Well, I am up because I cannot sleep and who shows up for a slumber party? Feeling sad. I am very glad to see you, Feeling. But not feeling sad. What can I say?

I feel concerned about your middle son, too. I do think he is trying to make you feel bad. Not to be mean but to not suffer alone. He has got survivor's guilt, I think. He must not feel he deserves to graduate on some level. I do not know what to say, when I pretty much always have something to say. I have been going through it with my own son. I am feeling very hopeless and sad.

booked my flight, but now I don't want to go.

I have an Amtrak ticket to leave April 15th for that cross-country trip. I paid for 8 days of hotels already. Non-refundable. And I am afraid to go.

But the thing is I feel my life depends upon it. If I cancel again, (the 4th time or 5th--and this time I bought the non-refundable hotel--I would lose a couple of thousand dollars as least)I feel there is no chance of ever getting a life back. I feel it will be as if to say, you might as well bury me now. Because 3.5 years plus of mourning my mother, and my own life, and desperately fearful about my son...without a life of my own, without goals, without productive activity or friends or entertainment or hobbies...and then cancelling again...would be accepting an early death.

How depressing to write this. But depressingly true.

M said something to me tonight (I will try to paraphrase here): You have to find a way to live independent of J. Independent of your pain and worry for him. You have to find a way to live for yourself. It does not mean you are indifferent or that you do not love him.

I really think in my case the reason I target myself, if my son suffers, and do not permit myself to live if my child is suffering--is guilt from my childhood. I think I got the message that if anybody around me suffered, I had to be responsible to remedy it and if I did not, I had to sacrifice a pound of flesh (I wish I could do that literally because I still have 30 pounds to lose.) And you know what? I think my son understands that I can be and will accept being, his target. I think I must have taught him that. Not on purpose, grant you, but he must have realized that his suffering really triggered me and got my attention. I rewarded his playing to me...when he felt bad. Great.

Feeling. I am tired and I need to go to bed. M turns the light off at 9. He is being patient with me lately because I guess partly he is changing and partly he knows that I cannot take much. So I snuck out into the living room, and now I am tired. Oh. Guess what? It is 224 am. No wonder.

I am glad you checked in. I am mad at middle son that he cannot take care of you better. Of course I see he cannot take care of himself right now. But I still do not forgive him for not texting you every couple of days. That was heartless. I know he is a kind person, but that was still a heartless act. I am sorry, Feeling.

 

[Feeling Sad]

You are funny, too, Cola by wanting to donate pounds of flesh... Sign me up!

No, he never just texted me. I would text him several times in 10 days before he texted me back quickly. I think that he waited a few weeks to tell me because by then it would definitely be too late to go back to school.

I feel that he wanted to tell me earlier when he texted asking if he could call me and then texted the he "forgot' what he had wanted to say. When he took a long time to respond for the last few weeks, it was because he was already homeless and without electricity to recharge his phone.

He didn't give his medications a chance, if he ever really even started. He was texting at that point that he didn't know if he would even graduate. When I texted and asked how he was doing, there was never a response.

I would text him. I think that he was embarrassed and afraid to tell me. That is why when I texted him yesterday with a photo and asked if he was feeling a bit better, he responded by saying no and that he had stopped going to school and working. He then texted that his phone was dying and stopped texting.

He took up to 10 days to text back when I texted him. He never just texted me.

No, I don't think that he was trying to hurt me. He was avoiding me and did not have electricity.

I feel like a horrible mother. I would never have told him to go back to school last summer without thinking that he was going to go on antidepressants. Yes, I could not force him to do so, but I feel responsible just the same.

I know that I had suggested going to the school health center before, but he was too embarrassed. Yes, he could have gone earlier. Also, when he had seen a doctor in a clinic in September, who said that he seemed fine, he could have advocated for himself or followed it up. But, when you are depressed you have avolition. You don't feel like doing anything.

I didn't 'nag' a lot because I felt like it would have been counterproductive. I am kicking myself for not nagging more.

Yes, Copa, he does not feel like he deserves to graduate. His roommates and professors tried to help him. He was too depressed to care. He said that others deserve jobs more than he did. He said that others would do a better job of things.

It is a vicious cycle. He is chronically depressed, so he can't study well and also doesn't care. Then when he fails, he doesn't think good of himself.

I think that he stopped going right after he said that he finally received a prescription from a doctor at the school medical center, or just a week later. He did not give the prescription long enough to work. Or it was too late to pull up his grades.

I cannot totally beat myself up over this, but I have been seriously depressed for years. I tried to model positive behavior, but I found it very difficult to model a positive outlook. I felt depressed and 'modeled' hopelessness. I achieved and continued to work, but I modeled a wounded soul instead of a strong, capable soul.

Back to what Wisernow said, that we should treat ourselves kindly and with understanding. Yes, I know that I could not help modeling sadness or depression, but I did, never the less. I am hurting. It is difficult to model a positive outlook on life when you, yourself, do not possess one.

I cannot go on antidepressants because I had simple partial seizures, I would go numb on one side when I was awake, after my brain tumor was removed in December of 2007. Antidepressants can trigger a seizure disorder. My simple partials could become complete seizures. I would lose my job.

But, I fear that I have modeled hopelessness even before that. I stayed married to his abusive father too long. He was eight when I finally divorced. He then went through years of having to deal with visits with his father. He didnt have to go, but he would to protect my youngest son who had to go.

I then lived with and married a man who had no feelings and a shallow affect.

I modeled staying with 2 men who were mistreating me. Make that 3 men...

He also watched me being mistreated by my ill son for 9 years. He understood why I tolerated my ill son and never was concerned about his destruction of property, but rather, how he must be feeling to want to destroy things. He was afraid, though, that one day my ill son could kill me. He went away to school because he had a falling out with my ill son and realized that he would be less violent if he left. But, he continued to worry about my safety. My youngest stayed home longer to protect me.

I modeled that I was not worth having someone treat me better. I feel that was because of what I went through as a child having my life threatened by my sister from age 11 on. I really did not feel that I deserved better treatment or that I really don't know how better treatment would have felt. I felt the way I have since I was 11. It was 'normal' to hurt. That is all I have known. It was not foreign to me.

I still continued in life, but he felt and saw my extreme sadness.

He told me once that people don't realize that he is depressed because he jokes all of the time. That is my method that I have employed since childhood. People find me funny. They cannot see my profound sadness and hopelessness.

Yes, Copa, you need to go on your trip. I do, too. But I don't want to go on any level. It would be very discourteous of me to say no after being one of 36 chosen out of over 180 candidates. Both of the seminar programs were very competitive.

Copa, I am still dancing politely at Cotillion with my clean white gloves on. No one is the wiser, except my sons... In fact, my middle son has, sadly, learned how to 'dance', as well.

 

[Copabanana]

Well. We are pulling each other down into the surf. I try to pull you out and end up beating you over the head. I will try again. While I wait for the yacht to come.

First. There are other ways to treat depression beyond anti-depressants, therapy and endless buying (*I am raising my hand here. It works really good until you have no place to walk in your house, garage, etc.)

There is exercise. Like walking or any exercise with bilateral movement. 3 years ago while I was in bed, I thought I would become a triathlete. I bought wetsuits (3).

You can do anything while you are in bed. To a point.

Another thing that helps with depression (I did this, too--the buying part at least--is needlework. Tatting. Crochet. Knitting. Felting.Spinning. Weaving. Sewing of any sort. I bought all of the props. Where you live there would be stores that offer courses in all of these things, but I think I remember that you do sew. The thing is Feeling (and I will be blunt here) you may be doing the same thing as middle son: Denying yourself the opportunity to get over this...because of the sense you do not deserve it.

Well. What to do then? You can get one of those pools and put a tether system in (cheap) and swim laps in place. It would be a metaphor for your life, but you will feel better. I am not being smart here. I am being smart.

I am researching above ground pools that can be recessed into the ground and look like regular pools. Feeling. Where you live you probably HAVE a pool already, but I do not. I want to enjoy my life. By that I do not just mean GETTING OUT of bed. But to have pleasure and contentment and support.

The idea of laying on an air mattress in a pool all day seems like a good idea to me at this point. Instead of bed.

I researched that there are now tether resistance systems to swim laps in a small pool.

I told M I wanted a pool and he did not say no. He just added it was not all as simple as I think.

Or it was too late to pull up his grades.

When I first went to college I went away to live in a dorm even though my family (evil step father, mother and sister) lived 20 minutes away. I think they did not much like me.

Anyway, I was very young. Just 17. It was too much and I hated every bit of it. I stopped going to my classes. I saw a therapist who tried to urge me to just try and resume--I could not. It was as if I had traveled too far out from the shore and there was no turning back.

Wrong metaphor. What I am trying to say is that middle son is living out what he thinks is his real authentic life. At this point achievement does not feel to him to be tolerable. He has sought out a circumstance that does.

Which feels intolerable to you, this latest iteration of his life, just as my own son's distress makes me go off the deep end (stuck in the water...still.)

This will change, I believe for him. He has resources and capacities that my own son has never demonstrated. He will find bottom, and he will surmount this. My own son? I get less hopeful every day.

I modeled that I was not worth having someone treat me better.

I do not know, feeling. I believe you, but I think that life is not so simple...that we can rightfully interpret our situations as...due to what we do or do not do.

Your 3 sons turned out with exemplary characters, as is your own. They have shown commitment, ambition, resilience, compassion and loyalty. Your eldest became ill and his character was overridden by his disease.

As you describe yourself, others can see you in a different way: a woman of commitment, responsibility, who perseveres, and digs in.
There have been many times in my relationship with M that I believe the majority of women would have left (let alone gotten together with him in the first place, given circumstances, I think, you know.)

I could insult myself about how I feel I am undeserving of better, or accept crumbs, do not aspire, allow myself to be mistreated...etcetera. Maybe all of it is true. If I look at the glass half empty. But M has over the years worked hard to address his limits, and he is overcoming them. Not one hundred percent, but the trend is most definitely up. He just keeps chugging along to become the best human being he can. He has done this his whole life. As you have. And I guess I have, too.

But one thing I know about M is that he is loyal, and ethical, a tireless worker and he will always strive to do the right thing. He helped me care for my mother for a year--changing diapers and the feeding tube. I was never, ever alone. And with my son, he feels he is his son too. And that is what my mother said about him: with him you will never have to face anything alone in your life.

And to a large extent this is true. Except for one thing: I have to face him. And sometimes it has not been pleasant.

People pick their poison in life. We do so in large part involuntarily. Because we are picked by our childhoods. Nobody leaves their childhood unbroken in some way or another and nobody leaves life not being crippled and ravaged.

This sounds depressing, and maybe I am depressed too. But I feel it is something else. I feel I am finally understanding life for what it is. I am going to go to another thread right now to get something that I posted yesterday that applies here.

Feeling. I hope I can always be here for you. I do not know where my life will take me but I do not want to lose you. You are a remarkable woman.

I wish you would consider The Folk School in North Carolina. John C Carroll I think it is called. I could go at the same time and we can meet. I hope you do not dislike me. But what can I do?

 

[Copabanana]

I just lifted almost the whole post.

Amália Rodrigues - Estranha forma de vida (1965)

This is me singing today (lie). Amalia Rodrigues is singing Portuguese Fado. A Strange Way to Live. Or Life, How it is Strange. . Is more or less the translation. Portuguese has a concept in it based upon the word, Saudades, which is untranslatable. Yearning, comes closest. It feels like heartbreak. Because sometimes we yearn for what is impossible. Irretrievably lost or that which we never had, or never could have.

I think that sometimes in life we need this concept. Like an envelope in a dresser drawer. A place to go and to take out or put back our longing....to know it has a place and even a name. I will speak for myself here: when I try too hard to control life, it is because I am fighting to not have to return to that envelope of heartbreak. Every life has it. Maybe this is when I end up off the plank with my son.

Instead, I think I will find this music. To remind me that a part of life is heartbreak. And this is how it is and has always been.

There is love. There is friendship. There is song and there is heartbreak.

I am sorry I am sad on your thread. But you helped me to feel better.

___

Bye, Feeling. I will go look for more music and I will try to come back.

 

[Copabanana]

Amália Rodrigues Fado Português

See below the lyrics which I translated.

 

[Copabanana]

Fado was born one day,
When the wind was hardly blowing
And the sky and the sea went on forever
In the bow of a sailboat,
In a sailor's heart
Who, being sad, sang,
Who, being sad, sang.

Ai, how beautiful,
My land, my hills, my valley,
Of leaves, flowers, golden fruits,
See if you see lands of Spain,
Sands of Portugal,
Look blind with tears.

In the mouth of a sailor
The fragile sailboat,
The song of hurt and dying
Sings the thrust of desires
Of lips burning with kisses
Who kisses the air, and nothing else,
Who kisses the air, and nothing else.

Mother, goodbye. Goodbye, Maria.
Keep safe in your journey
That here I make you an oath:
That I take you to the sacristy,
Or if god is served
Give me into the sea grave.

Now, behold, though another day,
When the wind does not blow
And the sky and sea go on forever
Another sailor was sailing
Who, being sad, sang,
Who, being sad, sang.

 

[Copabanana]

I translated the first song. A Strange Way to Live

It was by God's will
That I live in this anxiety.
That all hurts are mine,
that is completely my longing.
It was by God's will.

What a strange way of life
Has this heart of mine
Living lost;
Who would give my heart what it yearns for?
What a strange way of life.

Independent heart,
A heart that I cannot command:
I live lost among people,
Stubbornly bleeding,
Independent heart.

I won't follow you anymore:
Stop. Quit beating. If you do not know where you are going,
Why do you insist on running?
I won't follow you anymore.


Some of Amalia's songs were ancient Portuguese folkloric music, but many were her own compositions, based upon her poems.

 

[wisernow]

Copa please go on your trip. Do not back out. Your soul is calling out to you. Force yourself....write in a journal, sing at the top of your lungs, buy an outrageous lipstick but find yourself again....you need this to heal. Keep us posted. Know we are thinking of you.

 

[Copabanana]

Wisernow. I am afraid. I am afraid I will get sick. I am afraid I will go to the dance lesson and not be able to fasten my shoes, because my joints are so stiff and frozen and my belly grown so big. I am afraid I will look like an old lady trying to hold off decay and despair (true.) I am afraid that it is all too late for me.

And yet, your post helps me. It is my soul that is calling out to me. A soul that has never had a clearer and truer voice than right now. My body had to get decrepit and, me filled with despair and broken, for my soul to have its day, its voice.

Yes. I am getting it, wisernow. Maybe I am becoming wiser now, too.

Thank you. I am Fado now. I even look like her in a sense, Amalia. Was she not something?

I am so grateful to you, wisernow. I will write threads on my journey. Will you look for me?

 

[Copabanana]

I see it now. I am traveling to find me so that I can save me. Every single moment of the trip can be this. Even if I am in the hotel room, afraid, I will be there.

 

[Copabanana]

I as her mother had nothing left to give her.

I am revisiting this post by wisernow, of several weeks ago. A post which is very wise indeed.

Perhaps think of yourselves as mothers to young girls . Would you do your best to protect them, bathe them, nourish them, hold them, love them? Of course you would.
I think your souls are calling out to you both, begging please take care of me, please love me again, please wrap your heart and spirits around me and hold me close.

You see, the diversion of what has happened with our sons, causes us to lose that very basic sense of ourselves...it eats us up, again and again because WE allow it.

We allow ourselves to be demonized, cast aside, and as we become weaker we allow ourselves to be devoured by their demons!

Take back your strength, your soul. Fight for it as hard as you have been fighting for your sons! Perhaps you will see that as you become stronger...so will they! When you fight for yourself...you are also fighting for them. This is a battle for your life and theirs. But you must reclaim your life first. Because they are part of us and always will be....they become weak when we do...and they gain strength when we can model the way.

I would argue even more strongly: I think we try to substitute ourselves to be devoured by their demons, as if to spare them.

It does not work. We cannot live another person's life. Even that of our beloveds.

 

[Feeling Sad]

Copa, those lyrics were just beautiful. Thank you for always being there for me with words of support and I could never 'dislike' you. Thank you, Wisernow for your helpful words.

Yes, Copa, you need to go. We both do. We need to live and strive to move forward. We need to find a sense of joy...of hope for our future. We have deserted ourselves too long.

My trip will be challenging as well. I have many books to read and will need to study, contribute to discussions and group projects, and develop curriculums while I am there. But, we both will be healing by pushing ourselves past our comfort zone to acheive. You are going to be great. You will find yourself again.

Copa, you need to board that yacht of life, standing bravely at the helm facing the new horizon, with your column dressing gently blowing in the wind.

 

[wisernow]

Copa we will all be walking with you in this new adventure....and yes some days may be difficult and others more than joyous. It is never too late to listen to the souls yearning....it has been calling to you for some time now..the noise from your son and the grief of your mother's death has been clouding it. Change is so hard...however you will not fall off the cliff...there is much love to catch you all around you and lift you up. Just trust in yourself. You are doing this journey to save you. No different than a sick person taking medicine. It is spring time. Time to "repot"...time to give fresh nourishment to those tired emotional roots. Time to breathe and to know that it will all be okay! Hugs.

 

[Feeling Sad]

I am afraid that I will never see my middle son again either. He has been suicidal and says that he has no control over what happens to him. In the past, he spoke of cutting all ties and throwing his phone away. I am sure that he feels very badly about himself especially since school was always so easy for him.

I am off Good Friday and have many sick days saved up. I was thinking about going up there. But, if he doesn't answer his texts or charge his phone, I will not know where he is. If I even had my youngest tell me his location when I got home there if his phone was charged....then what? He would be angry that I used the locator and probably take it off. Even if he wasn't mad, would he just agree to come back home? Or would he just drive off and never contact me again.

I can't have 2 sons homeless. I can't handle this.

 

[Copabanana]

if he doesn't answer his texts or charge his phone, I will not know where he is.

What you can ask yourself about going north to search out son is this: how it felt for you to go North to search out your oldest son, when he was in Seattle was it? And you went round and round the blocks where you thought he would be, to no avail? We do not even know if he had seen you...and remained concealed.

Did it give you a sense of peace, that you were close to him? Did you feel more convinced that he was OK? Did it make you feel that your presence in some way accelerated his return home? Were you better able as a result to deal with the uncertainty and the fear and pain of this? Only you know.

But to go and circle aimlessly, spending your strength, your stamina, your hope, your time--to put tokens in a meaningless slot machine--in a mindless and fruitless spending of yourself, with nothing accruing to you in return, what would that be Feeling? Would that be self-betrayal, a deposit to the gods so they see your pound of flesh? Or would it be an act of devotion and restoration?

Nobody but you can know.

I would so like you to spend your accrued time in nourishing you. In permitting yourself a trip of healing, of renewal, of hope. Whatever that would be for you. A spa in the Rockies of Colorado. An island beach. The John C Campbell Folk School I think it is in the Ozarks. An Alaska cruise. Or what I would do in a heartbeat is go to Calistoga in the wine country and sit in the hot sulfurous water. That is my idea of paradise. And not too expensive. Everything, would be within 2 blocks away. Modest restaurants or 4 stars. Wine tasting. Calistoga is my idea of paradise. The weather would be so beautiful this time of year. You could text your son and ask him to meet you. He could take the bus to San Jose and then the train. Or not. But you would be going for you. We should not be so willing for self-sacrifice, I think, Feeling.

Five days spent fueling yourself, not depleting yourself in a futile exercise of wandering in circles, and suffering. That is what I think. Only you know.

There is a Zen Center in Carmel Valley which is half an hour from where you son is. Have you seen Carmel Valley? It is very beautiful. Or Big Sur would be maybe an hour and a half South. Breathtaking. The movie "The Sandpipers" with Elizabeth Taylor was filmed there. There is a nice and not too expensive motel somebody told me about in Carmel by the Sea called The Normandy, I think. I believe it is family owned. I took knitting lessons a couple of blocks from there. Oh. And Asilomar. The conference center at Pacific Grove. As far as I am aware they open it up to individuals some weeks. They provide meals (you have probably been there for a conference.) And it is right on the beach. I would not go there. It would be too cool to be on the beach. But there are lots of antique stores within a couple of miles and a very nice yarn store. And restaurants.

If you could go there and relax and feel his presence, and be calmed by it, that would be one thing. You get my drift.

Of all the options, I would pick Calistoga. How I love Calistoga. I have not been for perhaps 25 years. Napa Valley is so, so beautiful and Calistoga sits at the Northern, secluded end.

Feeling. There will come a time when you begin to choose for yourself. You are getting closer and closer. There is the realization that to choose yourself is to choose your sons. And maybe I am getting closer too.

 

[Feeling Sad]

I met my youngest son for frozen yogurt. He simply said, "Don't go up, Mom. It will only tick him off".

Not nearly as eloquent as what you conveyed.

No, going up there and trying to find him would not be comforting. It was crazy-making when I went, in vain, to Renton, Washington. It made me feel horrible. I told you before. I was just driving circles around him. I guess on some level, it felt good to be near him. But, it mostly felt horrible, sad, and heart-wrenching.

No, I should not go. I already had my Spring Break. I was alone in Morro Bay, because he said that he couldn't meet me, but still enjoyed antiquing. I visited Cayucos, Cambria, Paso Robles, Atascadero, Arroyo Grande, and Los Almos. I brought back a large oval painting portrait of a man named Austin Laid from the early 1800s, a set of sevre candleholders, a clock topper of a man, a general store display tin from 1880 for spices, and a cute white doll's dresser or perhaps a salesman sample.

Yes, I love Carmel. We almost moved there when I was in elementary school from the hills in Sherman Oaks after we had our 3rd landslide. No, I have never been to that conference center.

I don't own a pool. I am about a half hour from the beach. I often like to go and walk along early in the morning. It is very peaceful.

I will not go. It would make me feel worse. He won't touch his inheritance or the money I gifted him in high school. He said that he feels like giving it away. So, I don't know what he is going to do. Hopefully, he will find a place to live. He has always been sort of a retro bohemian hippie type. He loved Bob Dylan in high school. He used to have a life-sized cardboard cutout of him that startled me every time I walked by his room.

Thank you, for being there for me. It has helped to calm me down immensely. I hate it when you know that someone is hurting, but you don't know where they are. I just don't want him to go off the deep end emotionally speaking.

No, I won't go. It would be an exercise in futilty. Also, the last time I went he was saying sarcastically that it's just what he needed. "Mommy" came up to help me. He also drove off in the night and told me that now I have to kill myself because you came up after I told you not to.

Whew. It is all coming back now. Thank you. You helped me to decide. I will recharge my batteries closer to home.

 

[pigless in VA]

feel concerned about your middle son, too. I do think he is trying to make you feel bad. Not to be mean but to not suffer alone. He has got survivor's guilt, I think. He must not feel he deserves to graduate on some level.

I agree with Copa that this is most likely what is happening with him, however, I also think that it is his problem to wrestle.

M said something to me tonight (I will try to paraphrase here): You have to find a way to live independent of J. Independent of your pain and worry for him. You have to find a way to live for yourself. It does not mean you are indifferent or that you do not love him.

I really think in my case the reason I target myself, if my son suffers, and do not permit myself to live if my child is suffering--is guilt from my childhood. I think I got the message that if anybody around me suffered, I had to be responsible to remedy it and if I did not, I had to sacrifice a pound of flesh (I wish I could do that literally because I still have 30 pounds to lose.) And you know what? I think my son understands that I can be and will accept being, his target. I think I must have taught him that. Not on purpose, grant you, but he must have realized that his suffering really triggered me and got my attention. I rewarded his playing to me...when he felt bad. Great.

I learned these lessons from Lloyd's family. All four of them were enmeshed in a family dynamic of intense suffering. No one was happy. They didn't understand functioning in the world and doing well and enjoying it. I think Lloyd latched onto me, because I have always found a way to survive. I've been through a lot, but I'm resilient. He wanted that resiliency in his life. For a few years, he had peace in his life. Then his birth family sucked him back in to the vortex of misery. Guess what? You cannot make anyone feel better by joining them in their misery. I watched this entire family quite literally die by their collective misery.

It doesn't make any sense. They had food, shelter, friends and family. They could travel a bit and enjoy life. No one
enjoyed anything. Day after day after day after day of despising the world and its people and failing to enjoy any of the beauty that we have available.

I modeled that I was not worth having someone treat me better. I feel that was because of what I went through as a child having my life threatened by my sister from age 11 on. I really did not feel that I deserved better treatment or that I really don't know how better treatment would have felt. I felt the way I have since I was 11. It was 'normal' to hurt. That is all I have known. It was not foreign to me.

When it feels normal to hurt, then you can unconsciously push the kind people away. Their opposite treatment of you feels unfamiliar, abnormal and uncomfortable.

He also drove off in the night and told me that now I have to kill myself because you came up after I told you not to.

Feeling Sad, this was a horrible thing to say to you. It's emotional blackmail. He is in effect telling you that if he dies by suicide, that it is your fault. Please don't accept the blame for his mental state. Yes, he had a tougher than average upbringing. He's an adult now. His mental health is his responsibility. He routinely gives you the message that he doesn't want contact from you. How are you supposed to help him?

I am now telling Ferb something along the lines of "I want you to find a way to live your life and enjoy it. I will help you if you need to get to a doctor, but I won't allow your threat of suicide to control my own life." I've steered him to the resources; it's up to him to use them wisely.

 

[BusynMember]

Wow, pigless, I never saw this expressed better.