Feeling Sad---Son is Homeless

[RN0441]

Welcome back NL!

I also did not remember your saying you were sick. I KNOW stress does that to ME. It's happened a few times after extremely stressful situations. I even get psoriasis in a few odd spots after a particularly stressful situation. It is so weird how quickly my body reacts. And the older I get, it scares me a bit. I am a worry wart also which is not helpful even though I do work on that. Please take care of yourself.

Also sorry to hear about your girls' situations but agree with Copa that having either home with you and your son just cannot be the right solution. I just pray these things get them closer to THEM wanting to change THEIR lives. That's all you can do.

Your stance and mindset on all of this has always been so powerful to me, especially when things were rough here. My coworker tells me how I am selfless. I have only known her since July when I moved here but we are kindred spirits. I told her that I do not see myself like that at all but that after what my family has been through, I'm just happy to do anything I can to make those that I love happy or let them be happy.

My mother often said that hell is here on earth and at times I think that is true.

 

[Triedntrue]

I agree it is nice to hear from you but sorry things are not going well for you or your daughter right now. I know the feeling about well children being tired of hearing it. I am not permitted to bring up his name when talking to them. It makes me feel guilty for the way his life and my treatment of it effected them. Our difficult children impact so much of our lives. Try to hang in there prayers are with you.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi all,
I remember you commenting Copa on my illness in December that it was a signal that I was exhausted. It’s true. Tornado had been calling nightly from jail needling away to come home. When she was released-no word from her, a familiar yet emotionally draining pattern. I had been vacillating between engaging and detaching. My heart arguing that being cut off from family was not helping matters, my head chiding that we had tried to engage before to no avail at great risk to our own health and sanity.
These recent episodes have opened my eyes ( once again) to the fact that my two are used to street life. I am horror struck by their surroundings, they seem to have accepted it as their norm. Street friends have replaced family, and I suppose it is because these people accept their drug use.
I have to find my way back to focusing on Sons graduating and entering college. These two at 30 and nearly 40 will live life as they choose, regardless of how it effects themselves, or their family who loves them.
There needs to be a contract between my heart and head to stop overthinking and fixating on something I just cannot fix. That will be a life time
work in progress and potential relapse, as recovering enablers name portrays. I cannot let my guard down, lower the shield. That’s kind of exhausting too, being battle ready at all times.
I can sound off like the unsinkable Molly Brown but the reality is, I can also become the Titanic.
All of us here have our struggles.
The thing is what have we control over? Nothing to do with our adult children’s choices, or in Feelings case, your sons mental illness. For every dramatic encounter I have with my two, there are fellow warriors suffering worse than I. It is painful and takes its toll, but I have to get back on my feet. My two wouldn’t bat an eyelash at the hurt I feel. In their present state of mind all that matters is the next high.
Time for me to switch gears again and focus on living well.
Thanks Feeling for your post. You are an inspiration sharing your gumption to go travel. I know you have worked hard to lift yourself up. Keep up the good work. You too Copa, you have made some awesome milestones as far as focusing on what you need to do to enjoy the best rest of your life.
Thank you Tried for your affirmation of what it is like to deal with this, the disdain well adult children feel for the time stolen from them over the struggles of their wayward siblings. It is a multifaceted conundrum.
Carry on warrior sisters and brothers. Focus on what your future looks like.
Love and hugs.
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

These recent episodes have opened my eyes ( once again) to the fact that my two are used to street life. I am horror struck by their surroundings, they seem to have accepted it as their norm.

This has become true for my son too. While I do not believe he uses more than marijuana, he does not seem to mind being homeless. This is his baseline now.

And when he is living in our other house, he lives as a homeless person there. We have to accommodate his lifestyle, high all of the time on the property (which was my only bottom line), marginal grooming, no reciprocity, non-productive...

When I read (again) the above quote, I feel I have made a mistake. That nothing could be worse than the reality we are at. That I should have tolerated the way he lived. Which we all know I never ever could.

 

[Copabanana]

Something happened to that last post and it would not let me type more. So here's the end.

It's the devil and the deep blue sea. Either accept them, as they are, to give them a bottom line (at our expense)….or accept their lives as they are....which is a broken heart.

I can't let go of the belief that there's something I could do. That if I just was able to tolerate him the way he is, he could be better.

 

[Copabanana]

I remember you commenting Copa on my illness in December that it was a signal that I was exhausted. It’s true.

Gosh New Leaf. I did not put it together, that the reason you were not posting was because you continued ill, or that being ill had taken that much out of you.

I wish you had reached out.

But you know, I have not been posting much at all about our situation. I post on others' threads because with that I feel a sense of connection and mastery, when I lack it in my own life.

I am feeling sad now. My son is more like Feelings two sons. He is mentally ill. Yet, I cannot find the wherewithal to tolerate how he is. I have pushed him to be homeless. He has not been aggressive for a long time. It is that I cannot bear how he lives. And he insists on using his marijuana day and night. On the property. His well being (and mine) depend upon my renting the property. And now M is living in that apartment, too, sharing it with J when J is there. And M does not have it in him to tolerate everything. Especially the marijuana near him.

Oh. This is terrible.

 

[New Leaf]

It is terrible, a rock and a hard spot for sure. A never ending ache. I can push it aside for a time, but it wells up in me and the dam bursts. My Hoku says it is hard to love them because of their circumstances and how they have disregarded themselves and family. It hurts too much to love them. I think it is a bit easier for siblings to push the ache away than for a parent. I would be fooling myself if I tried to pretend I am not affected.
I am.
With that, I have my work cut out for me.
Rinse, repeat.
I hear you Copa how responding to others suffering with their adult children’s life choices, brings a feeling of connection and mastery, it has been a way to speak to myself as well, a reaffirmation of been there done that, this is the course I need to be on.
It’s like a hard upwind paddle. Sometimes I am strong, sometimes not.
The thing is, we can’t want for our adult children more than they want for themselves.
So, being sad and depressed over their situations makes no sense either. I suppose we wouldn’t be human if we didn’t get a dose of the “feels” every so often. We are living with challenging circumstances.
I dare say that I don’t feel I am codependent, although when I do feel ill affected by my twos lifestyle, a professional may label me as such.
Why is their timing so impeccable? “Oh are you having a hard time? Let’s see how you deal with this.....wham.”
As we sat vigil by my mother in laws bedside, seeing her frail form struggle at last breath, fond memories flooding my thoughts, in particular her joy at our firstborn Rain. Then the call the very next day that Rain was hospitalized with sepsis.
In emergency mode, we made our way to the park, only to find her hemming and hawing at seeking care. I sat there looking at her surroundings, her park family, thinking to myself that this was another fruitless effort. Now I see it as my daughter says, “We went, we did what we could do and showed our love, the rest is up to her.”
It is.
Likewise for Tornado. She is in between the cracks in the system, awaiting trial, not sentenced, so she is not able to get the services afforded to inmates. If she is let out again it will be the same scenario, on the streets with nothing but the clothes on her back. Again, her consequences. I have called around and been told there are shelters she could go to. It will be her choice. I have come to see that her insistence at coming home is a reflection that she has not seen her responsibility in the mess meth has made of her life. I don’t think she is ready for change, she just wants out of prison.
Sorry Feeling, hijacking your post again.

It's happened a few times after extremely stressful situations

Rn, I wanted to quote more of your post but the quote thingee won’t work. Yes, age does factor in to succumbing to stress with illness. I was hit with a weird virus that attacked my joints and bones and laid me flat. I had no energy for a few months, then a bout of depression hit. I was drowning. It was all I could do to get up in the morning and get myself to work. I now see it as Copa said, I was in overdrive and my body revolted.
Feeling, just a few more weeks of school. I look forward to a break. Are you going to travel?
Copa, I am sorry you are feeling sad. What is a mother to do? You are miserable when you have little to no contact with your son.
Here it is Mother’s day. Sigh.
A warm hug to all of the Mothers here that light that spirit candle of hope that our adult children will somehow find their way to their potential.
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

Copa, I am sorry you are feeling sad. What is a mother to do? You are miserable when you have little to no contact with your son.

I asked M today (knowing full well the answer) what percentage chance that J will call me today on mother's day. His answer? Minus than zero.

Yup.

I spent the afternoon with some very nice women. It was nice.

 

[Copabanana]

If she is let out again it will be the same scenario, on the streets with nothing but the clothes on her back. Again, her consequences.

You know, my son has used that word a lot in the recent past. Consequences. I hate it.

You see. He NEVER ever thinks of consequences in terms of his choices. He always uses the word in relation to something I have control over. Not that which he COULD control.

He uses the word in this sense: I accept my consequences. What are my consequences?

By this he gives me responsibility. I accept my spanking. I accept my time out. I accept losing my allowance.

And then, after that? We're back at baseline. No learning. To him, consequences are something floating out there. Like clouds. Like the weather. They roll in. They do their thing. They're gone. I am finally seeing it. I'm the weather. (He has no control over the weather, right? It's got nothing to do with him, right?)

He has no sense of cause and effect.There is no relationship in his mind between the way he lives and his choices. Except complete congruence. There is no light of day. There is a complete eclipse.

He may have occasional inconvenience. He may become anxious about one thing or another. He may run out of money. But his lifestyle causes him no distress. He chooses it.

And I honestly do not know why. I try to understand.

He feels a certain pride in surviving. He likes the adventure of it. All in all. There's nothing about a normal life he much misses or aspires to.

This last time he was back here he said something like this: In all the time I've been homeless there were only 2 nights I did not sleep. I've learned to sleep sitting up. I am alert. I hear people coming.

In the past when I have searched for a way to understand, I found the cowboy metaphor comforting. Sleeping under the stars. Living like a vagabond. (I love cowboy movies.)

All of the things I have said and done to motivate him, encourage him, exort him to change have not worked--because he does not aspire one bit to anything I hold up as desirable. He wants none of it. N.O.N.E. Zero.

He has the exact life he wants. Until he runs out of money. Then he will talk fast and try to stack the deck so that it shows up in a way that I buy into. Until his next check arrives. And there we are. The con's revealed. (I have conned myself.)

Consequences are what I do to throw difficulties in his way (from his way of thinking, I guess) to thwart him in taking full advantage of whatever bonus creature comforts I might offer for a limited time. Like a free cruise and then you show up and the drinks cost $25.

My son does not see the difficulties, the indignities, the hardships, the discomfort of his lifestye as "consequences." His life, as he sees it, is his choice.

 

[New Leaf]

My son does not see the difficulties, the indignities, the hardships, the discomfort of his lifestye as "consequences." His life, as he sees it, is his choice.

This says a lot, Copa. I suppose it is the same for my two. They have accepted their lifestyles. It has to be that, otherwise they would seek change. Tornado was released yesterday. I have not heard from her for two weeks. She posted on Instagram, “freshout” with a selfie filter with the scales of justice on her cheek. Another hours later, glassy eyed. She blocked me, but not her brother. He saw her post and came down to the park where I coach to make sure I was okay, and to let me know she was out. With the Hope program I believe she has to see her probation officer weekly and submit to random drug tests. Only time will tell what her choices will be.
I’m sure she feels that I don’t care. I have made a promise to myself that my focus will be on my son. I didn’t go to visit her, or put money in her account.
Would it have made a difference in how she chooses now? I don’t know.
Consequences. Drugs and drifting in the wind with like minded people, vs. a conventional life, responsibility, family. I feel like the longer my two are out there living as they do, the more they become accustomed to the degradation.
Change won’t happen until they want it. That’s the challenge for me, understanding that and letting go of the notion that I could convince them otherwise. I would be lying if I pretended that this is not a daily struggle, that my heart doesn’t wrestle with my head, that the further I go down the road of detachment, the more they delve into their lifestyles, convinced that their family doesn’t care about them. On the other hand, I see hubs cousins, in their 80’s housing their addicted son. He just keeps on using meth, even though he has had a stroke and somehow recovered after a short bout of paralysis. I can’t see myself on that path, either. Watching the chaos up close and personal.
Either way, the pain of it stings.
So there it is.
The challenge set before me is to keep trying to live my best life, despite that ache for my two.
I’m sorry your son did not call you on Mother’s Day. But, I am glad you spent the afternoon with friends and enjoyed yourself.
Two and a half more weeks of work, then I have a break. Feeling, what are you doing this summer? I will be working on my garden, paddling and coaching. No traveling for me.
Hugs
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

New Leaf. My son did after all send a text for Mother's Day on Sunday night.

I will be working on my garden, paddling and coaching.

This sounds idyllic, New Leaf. You deserve it.

My son was in a sober living last year for a couple months. The guys were largely older. Some in their forties, fifties and sixties. I do not know if that's reassuring or troubling. But they do seem to run out of gas at some point.

 

[Feeling Sad]

Greetings, sisters. I am so sorry that it has been so very long. I am not doing very well. In automatic pilot, of sorts.

Yes, I am traveling. I went on a teacher seminar and then to Washington, D.C. and Charleston. I live to learn and write competitive essays to get into seminars. I am truly in my element being with teachers from all over the states for traveling seminars.

Yet, I worry. My grief never truly leaves me. I greatly cherish learning and traveling, and yet my worries follow me. I am friendly, informed, open for discussions, and well-read. Yet, I sadly carry a pronounced grief, that no one knows about.

I pose the thought, that my eldest, if he were in his 'right' mind, would want me to enjoy life. At times, my life crept in and I thought of my tall son trying to sleep in his cramped car. The positive that I take away with me is that people are truly kind. I met people from all over the US. They were beautiful, caring, and kind.

On this site...I have met the same. I am just going through the motions. I worried about my 2 eldest sons on my travels, yet I was in my element...learning and experiencing.

Leafy, you NEVER take over my thread. You and Copa are the dearest friends that I have ever known. I truly mean this. You are both the strongest women that I have ever known. I ache for what you are going through. You are both my fierce warrior sisters. I am truly blessed to know you. Your strength inspires me.

Life is not fair. We are suffering, living as parents that are literally aching for our lost children, whether it is by mental illness or drugs. They do not have complete control over their choices. I am grappling with both grief and guilt. Yes, I think that I was a good parent and yet I deal daily with the 'what ifs'. Guilt wears you down. None of us wished this upon our precious children,. We would put our lives down for theirs. Yet, we feel this grief every day.

I love you and know that you are all good people, or you would not be on this site. I wish you all a respite from grief. Leafy and Copa, you both make me carry on. We all tried our best. We all wish the best for our chikdren. We are stronger than anyone knows. I am so very proud of all of you. I am so very fortunate to know you. I can face obstacles that I never could alone. Thank you.

 

[New Leaf]

Dearest LIttle Bird, How nice to "see" you again.

I am not doing very well. In automatic pilot, of sorts.

Ah, the auto pilot, I have been there so many times. It's okay, Feeling. We have to be able to process unimaginable pain, these are our grown children. It hits me every so often, the doldrums. It’s usually triggered by some episode or another, knocks me flat, then I have to work hard to get back on my feet. Takes a lot of prayer and just plain letting go of what I cannot control.

Yet, I worry. My grief never truly leaves me. I greatly cherish learning and traveling, and yet my worries follow me. I am friendly, informed, open for discussions, and well-read. Yet, I sadly carry a pronounced grief, that no one knows about.

I don’t think grief ever leaves. It is the price of love, really. The difference being that we grieve loved ones who are still on this earth. That adds an extra challenge to move forward.

I pose the thought, that my eldest, if he were in his 'right' mind, would want me to enjoy life.

This is exactly what I think, Feeling and also by our living and striving for peace and joy is a beacon to our wayward adult children.

The positive that I take away with me is that people are truly kind. I met people from all over the US. They were beautiful, caring, and kind.

There are kind people. They are out there.

On this site...I have met the same. I am just going through the motions. I worried about my 2 eldest sons on my travels, yet I was in my element...learning and experiencing.

I am glad you are able to ride the tide of your concerns and despite that go out and immerse yourself in your element. It is wonderful Feeling. I have my grands for the summer, possibly longer if it is Gods will. The situation we are all in is a challenge, because CPS is involved and the goal is still to reunite the kids with their parents, if they make steps to get clean. This opens up all kinds of worrisome possibilities but I am working hard to stave off the anxiety of this. I came across this quote and it has helped me try to focus on what I can control.

What I can do is try my best to bring some peace into my grands lives, show them love and kindness and hope whatever the outcome that they know there are different ways to live and that they have a choice in their own actions and behaviors.

Leafy, you NEVER take over my thread. You and Copa are the dearest friends that I have ever known. I truly mean this. You are both the strongest women that I have ever known. I ache for what you are going through. You are both my fierce warrior sisters. I am truly blessed to know you. Your strength inspires me.

You are strong as well, Feeling, I don't think you realize that enough. Thank you for your kindness, light and love. The same right back at you. I only wish we were physically closer!

Life is not fair. We are suffering, living as parents that are literally aching for our lost children, whether it is by mental illness or drugs. They do not have complete control over their choices. I am grappling with both grief and guilt. Yes, I think that I was a good parent and yet I deal daily with the 'what ifs'. Guilt wears you down. None of us wished this upon our precious children,. We would put our lives down for theirs. Yet, we feel this grief every day.

Every day grief. It waxes and wanes. I think that I am getting better Feeling over realizing that I have absolutely no control over what my two decide. I know that when I am overcome that I am overthinking. I have read that worry is the opposite of faith. I am working on that one. I know worry and anxiety is extremely bad for our health. I don't want to live out the rest of my years consumed by it.

I love you and know that you are all good people, or you would not be on this site. I wish you all a respite from grief. Leafy and Copa, you both make me carry on. We all tried our best. We all wish the best for our children. We are stronger than anyone knows. I am so very proud of all of you. I am so very fortunate to know you. I can face obstacles that I never could alone. Thank you.

We are all in this together. Today, I may seem strong, tomorrow, who knows? My dad always said life is not fair. It's true. It is full of ups and downs and sideways. But, I know that for the many challenges I have faced, there are others out there who face way more in different forms. I am blessed to have found this site and the strong warrior parents who walk this path have been a respite for me. I am glad you posted Feeling. It is good to know you are still walking the path towards healing. Even though there is an underlying sadness, you are grabbing your life back. Keep up the good work and know that I am cheering for you, Copa, and all of us.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Feeling Sad]

Leafy, thank you so much for the quote. It is very fitting. Yes, guilt and grief are felt over past events and worry and anxiety deals with the future. So true. I am trying to live day by day and stop persevering over the what ifs.

I am very glad that your grands are staying with you. They can experience normalacy and know that they have positive choices. They are very fortunate to have you. Yes, it is tenuous, but you have them for now. I hope that it works out. Keep me posted.

Whenever I hear a noise from my bedroom window, my mind goes straight to survival mode. Sadly, I will probably never lose my intense startle reflex. I can see that my schizophrenic son is still moving about in adjacent towns by his bank withdrawals. He lost his debit card, so I just have bank locations. But, that is immense. I just miss knowing the locations he frequents. I keep putting a small amount in each month for him and me. He was very skinny before and I need to know that he is eating. It helps me out immensely to know that he is alive. I could not carry on if I did not know.

Lately, I have a new worry. When he ran off to Washington 14 years ago, he never contacted me. I went up there to try to find him. I was actually circling around the block that he parked in the residential area. Anyway, he returned, without warning, to my door exactly 1 year later to the day. He later told me that he was establishing residency so that he could go to school there. He never went back to school.

The restraining order is for 5 years, the greatest amount given, and will expire next June. Will he return because he is then able do so without police intervention? One of his delusions is that my house belongs to him. I know that he probably won't because the whole experience fed all of his paranoid fears. But, he could be waiting to get 'his' house back.

It is up to me to extend the 5 years in court. It is a mute point because he could never be served or notified. I just have to be extra diligent.

I am trying to live in the present, but my 2nd son refuses to go to therapy and is very verbally abusive. He feels badly afterward, but it is greatly exaberating my chronic ptsd. I am back to walking on egg shells, once again. He tells me that he wants me to die and that he hopes that it is soon. I often go to my room and lock my door. My heart starts to race and I go into hyper vigilance. He is not violent towards me, but he hits himself, at times, and screams at me and calls me stupid, fat, and old.

Today, again, he told me that he wants me or my youngest son to watch his dog so that he can leave to live in his car. He did this once before when he was going to school up north and working 2 jobs. I almost went crazy with grief having 2 sons homeless. He would randomly call me about every 6 weeks, but spoke of throwing away his phone.

He says that if I don't take care of his dog so that he can leave and I make him stay with me, that he will kill himself. He feels that I, in essence, am choosing for him to die. He says that he should not be treating me poorly by yelling and verbally abusing me when I am only trying to help. I agree. He refuses to go to therapy. He says that he should not have to worry about how his behavior affects me or my youngest son. He says that his leaving is better than my finding him dead in his bedroom.

I am paralyzed in grief. I cannot call suicide prevention because they will not do anything unless a person is actively trying to kill themselves. Also, he knows what to say to appease them.

He is still on antidepressants and has stopped drinking for over a year. Yes, there is tough love and some might opine that I should tell him to leave if he will not go to therapy, get a job, or finish his last semester for his degree. He has done nothing for 2 years. But, he WANTS to leave. He liked being homeless. He said that homeless people are genuine. It is not just a threat meant to scare or control me. He wants me to tell him to leave. If he leaves, I could not emotionally handle it. Also, I would not know how he was doing. I feel that there is a greater chance of suicide if he leaves. At the very least, he would probably stop his medications and start drinking again.

I know that he feels badly living with his mother. But, I want him to gradually get better. Yes, l know that he needs to want that, too, and he doesn't want it, feels that he cannot achieve it, or that he doesn't deserve it.

Copa and Leafy, this is my quandary. I am paralyzed in grief and worry. I am trying to separate myself from his issues, but it is difficult because he is home all of the time. I hate summer now because I don't feel comfortable in my own house. I am rolling in cortisol from the stress. He tears me down over what I watch on TV, what I eat, what I say, and argues almost all of the time over nothing. I want to get things done around the house, but he hounds me. I usually go out to be away, but today I am afraid to leave because he might leave for good. So much for a break...

 

[Copabanana]

I cannot call suicide prevention because they will not do anything unless a person is actively trying to kill themselves.

I know this to not be true. My son has been hospitalized a number of times just for threats.

I am so very sorry for all of this, Feeling. I copied so many quotes I don't know where to begin, but I will try to divide them into themes and I may have to return later.

First of all there is the sense that you have control over the outcome, that if he stays he is less at risk, and if he is homeless he is more apt to make a suicide attempt. This:

I feel that there is a greater chance of suicide if he leaves.

I don't believe that this is necessarily true. I believe that there is risk either way, like your son is telling you. My son has been homeless. (He is back here, now, living with M in the other house.) After a long period of homelessness my son is more stable, is not making suicide threats, is more willing to compromise and cooperative, and less hostile and confrontative. When he does get hostile he is reining it in. He is working with us. To some extent. Yesterday he went to mental health and got assigned a case manager. I will try to be hopeful.

I have no illusion that this will not turn on a dime. He is motivated right now because he has no money. He gets a SSI check in a week. We'll see how that goes.

He says that if I don't take care of his dog so that he could leave and I make him stay with me, that he will kill himself.

This quote fills me with sadness and anger. Mentally ill or no, how could he put this on you?

Honestly, I do wonder if it is good for him to continue to stay with you. If he refuses to seek treatment and seems to be escalating. If there are signs that the stability of living with you is having a positive effect, what are they?

It seems like he is more aggressive, has less self-control, is just as sad, and is becoming desperate. The desperation is what would concern me the most.

I understand 100 percent if you want him with you to avoid the intense sadness and extreme worry of having him on the street. But you are suffering the costs of this. His battering you verbally and his escalation of symptoms.

Have you considered returning to therapy?

Before I get into all of the effects on you, I am wondering if the following might be an option that you can live with. That he live in an RV. (I would do this for my son, but he does not drive.) An older mobile home, like the Class A or C can be had for between 2500 and 5500 or so. Maybe less. This is a lifestyle for many people. Many people live in their mobile homes full time. They boon dock. Living on federal or state land or whatever, and paying nothing to live. They appear to love it.

Sometimes people will live in cities. Stealth or in the open. In the Bay Area many people use RV's. There are caravans of them parked in specific areas. Sometimes they are moved on by the police, but all of them just move together to another area. M and I came on a caravan. There were dozens of trailers and mobile homes in an area of West Berkeley. I loved it. I wanted to do it, too.

This is not only people we think of as homeless. Their are so many people who cannot afford three thousand dollars a month for rent. To start. Their jobs are there in SF or San Jose, and they live in their RV. I think it makes sense.

I think my son liked the homeless lifestyle somewhat. His problem is he was abused and he could not hold onto his money, through being taken advantage of and inability to administer his funds.

Now we are to the abuse and its effects on you. How you are abused by your son in your own home. A repetition of how you lived with older son. Oh, this is so, so wrong.​

my 2nd son refuses to go to therapy and is very verbally abusive. He feels badly afterward, but it is greatly exaberating my chronic ptsd. I am back to walking on egg shells, once again.

He tells me that he wants me to die and that he hopes that it is soon. I often go to my room and lock my door.

screams at me and calls me stupid, fat, and old.

He tears me down over what I watch on TV, what I eat, what I say, and argues almost all of the time over nothing.

Feeling. This is terrible. Nobody could live like this and not be traumatized and re-traumatized. As bad as this is for you, this is not good for him, either.

But, I don't know what I can say to motivate you to change this. I recognize that you are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Does the fact that your older son is surviving, is maintaining help at all? (Your middle son seems to be able to have some insight into his behavior and is able to see himself, when he calms down. I would expect that he would stay in contact with you should he leave.)

For him leaving allows the possibility of positive change, of working this through. It sounds like he feels like he is in jail. And he is banging his head against the bars--and you. You represent the prison bars to him. You've bot to get yourself out of this vice.

Let him go, Feeling. Let him have a chance. This is an irrational belief on your part, Feeling, that you protect him by holding him there. I believe the reverse is true. And so does he.

I am so very sorry that you are suffering.

As far as the restraining order that is soon to lapse, I think I would go to an attorney and I think I would go back to therapy. This is not a decision that can be made without serious thought, mulling over, and counsel. How long of an increment would you have to extend? Could you go 6 months at a time, for example?

One of the great pains for you was that you were locked in to this long time period and felt no control.

 

[Feeling Sad]

Copa, I understand that he wants to be 'free'. But, I feel that he wants to be free from life...responsibilities, obligations, finishing school, or working. He is pulling away from people. I don't feel that he will be better off emotionally being homeless and he rarely contacted me when he was homeless before. If he went back off his antidepressants, he would get much worse.

He has started to apply to some low stress jobs that do not require a degree. Before, when he was homeless, he had no place to shower or shave. He would never be able to get a job if he had wrinkled clothes or was disheveled. Secondly, his dog gives him much needed companionship and therapy. He gives him a reason to live. Part of the reason he wants to give his dog away is so that he can be free to kill himself without worrying about the welfare of his beloved dog. Thirdly, he sees my youngest son about once a week so that their shelter huskies can play. He needs more socialization, not less. Yes, there are caravans. He would never want to be a part of this. He wants to get away from people. It is very stressful to keep moving your car and finding a safe spot to park for the night. He doesn't like his phone. He keeps his mailbox full always to avoid people. He never answers his phone.

I am back in therapy for several months. I have a male therapist, which is new to me. At first I was apprehensive, but I feel that it is good to see a positive male role. Also, my middle son went briefly to a therapist, but he stopped going because he didn't like her and never asked for a different one.

Yes, I agree that the abuse is bad for me, but, having him homeless with little or no contact would be worse on me. They are both horrible.

I am going to try to treat him more as a room mate. He got mad today because he received a check in the mail from the research job for the FDA that he had up north that he had left without any explanation 2 years ago. I told him that he should email and briefly thank them for the check. I thought that he should apologize and explain that he left due to a family emergency; a simple way to refer to his schizophrenic brother's restraining order. He could then feel free to put that job down for a reference. I usually do not get involved. I won't again. It brought up painful and embarrassing memories.

He has been paying low rent for 2 years. He also does some yardwork. He has a lot of money from his inheritance from my parents, so he doesn't have the urgency to work. But, his money is slowly draining away. He sees this. I want him to work to get out with people and contributing in some way. Both will make him feel better. Socialization is the best thing for any mental illness. There have been numerous studies on this point. He needs to see friends and have fun.

He was out front doing yard work for the last 3 hours in the heat. We are both hurting and trying. If he got a job, i feel that he would start to feel better about himself. He worked long hours at his old job and loved the challenge.

Copa, I read your other thread. If they cancel you, then you cannot be charged for your room. It is not refundable if you cancel. Check into your rights if they cancel you. Unless, you booked your own room with the hotel, then it remains. I would still fight it. If anything, he would not want his 'good name' brought up in a negative way with the hotel for future programs. If all else fails, I also agree with using the room for a trip for you and M. It would not have to remind you of the missed program, unless you let it, but rather, your triumph over the program! A wonderful holiday with positive M would be better for you anyway. Hotels always have cheaper rates that are nonrefundable. I booked one by mistake and 15 minutes later I was not able to cancel even after explaining that it was not clearly marked that it was nonrefundable and that it was a mistake. It seems like a very poor program anyway if you have not heard back from the person in charge. But, he is responsible for his wive's comments regardless. Not a very understanding or nurturing group. Rise above them...

 

[Feeling Sad]

Copa, even if the hotel is nonrefundable, if they cancel you, then they are responsible. You stated that this very expensive hotel was "the only option" given to you and you had to book it to attend the retreat, which is probably being held there. I would fight paying for it. Have the hotel contact him over who pays if they cancel you. You need to have them officially write that they have cancelled you. Then, fight it. Who knows, they probably get a kick-back from the hotel when they have a large number of people book for 4 days.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Feeling

The hotel is not connected to the event. I booked the hotel directly. I clicked the button understanding it was non-refundable. While I didn't like it, I accepted it, believing it would motivate me to get there.

If he cancels me, I agree, he is responsible to pay my costs. But how would I get him to do so? He hasn't even called me back. I am not the most assertive person. I am even afraid to call the hotel. How would I have the courage to tell him, you pay for the hotel.

I am seeing this in another way. Had I gone I would have had to pay another $2500 more and meals on top of this. This is a huge amount of money to me.

I am looking it this that this is a win. I paid $700. I think I got something out of this. I was very upset for half of a day. Maybe a little bit the next day, and then, less and less.

I am more and more suspicious of professionals involved in mental health in particular. At least in my own ability to be helped. More and more I am accepting that I was dealt a hand at birth, and my life purpose is to play the best hand I can, based upon my own efforts. I have been doing that. But these last years have been so very hard. The rabbi I speak with believes my extreme prematurity has made things hard for me, and that now there are therapies. I have very little trust to begin with. I am reticent to open myself up to more. I don't know if this is correct, of this is a product of my own limitations. But there it is.

 

[Copabanana]

I feel that he wants to be free from life...responsibilities, obligations, finishing school, or working.

I know that you believe I am better off with my son home. And he is certainly better off. He has become highly damaged being homeless. But the thing is, I am not sure it was bad for him, if he survives it.

But I agree with you. It is better for me, that he is home.

It sounds like your middle son has insight. That he apologizes to you means a lot. He is able to see and accept that his behavior was wrong. Also with the letter from the research facility, he knows he blew it. He knows it was him. That's good, too, on a certain level.

In many ways our sons are a lot alike, your middle son and my son.

If you are set on keeping middle son home, I wonder if a therapist who specializes in family systems might help. You are dealing with a family dynamic that spans generations. I try not to study trauma (it triggers me) but they find that trauma affects genes and other physiological systems. There is intergenerational trauma that is transmitted for centuries. Not only have holocaust survivors had genetic changes, but their kids have too! You are dealing with something massively powerful. This is not just a psychological issue.

You triggered your son when you got involved with the letter. He lashed out.

I think you need to be careful to not put your own needs on your son. Your psychological and emotional needs. I do this with my son. I need him to do better. I need him to function. I need to not feel hopeless. This is a lot to put on somebody who is not functioning optimally to begin with. This is why I think a family systems therapist might help. Maybe you can talk to your therapist about this. I'm glad you found somebody you like.

Everything you say in this last post about Middle son, I agree with. But the thing is this: He is an adult and he has personal autonomy and freedom. He is free to leave. But you don't need to accept the dog. He has to work that out himself.

I think I would put it to him that way. I can't stand in your way. But I am unable to take the dog. (If that is the case.)

 

[Feeling Sad]

If the hotel is not connected to the retreat and you chose it out of several, then you will need to pay because there are always refundable hotels available. You made it sound like it was your only option. So the retreat is being held near the hotel, but not at the hotel. I would reach out directly to the hotel and tell them that a flare up of a condition precludes the trip. If you provide a doctor's note, they might take pity and return your money or part of your money. Is it some time out or happening soon?

If you don't get a refund , go to the hotel anyway. You won't be stressed with M and will have a great time. A nice vacation at the hotel would be healing. Check out the sights nearby and perhaps stop along the train ride to explore new areas. Sit down with maps and have fun planning your adventure. Make the trip yours. Instead of losing money, you will take from it a great, restful, romantic trip!

Just call the hotel. They will be very kind. It is more difficult for them to turn you down on the phone, than an email. If they say no, nicely ask to speak to the manager. Did you book it through the hotel site? If through booking.com, expedia, etc, they will call for you, but you are still not guaranteed a refund. I didn't get one 15 minutes later and the trip was 7 months out... Often, they will talk to the owner and get back to you. Just try. Even if they say that it is against policy, they will be polite. No worries. Yes, I agree, do not spend any more money to go to the retreat. They were extremely rude. Now, make lemonade out of lemons. Go and plan your romantic getaway. All areas have fun things to see and explore.

My son received a check for his work. I told him to email them with a quick thank you, apology, and explanation of family emergency. He knows that he blew it. He had a nervous collapse, of sorts. He was worried about his big brother with his illness. He kicks himself every day and feels that he can't ever go back to school or his field. He won't forgive himself. He feels that he let them down. He was homeless and working long shifts. He was so tired, that he forgot to punch in most days. Most students went home over the summer, he carried the program.