From bad to worse...much, much worse.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lil, May 3, 2015.

  1. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    He may need services to change.

    The first step is trying to gently get him to see that testing for help does not mean his is "lesser than." That's a tough one, but he CAN get help. Professionals, who are mostly young and fun, are trained to help socially delayed people like your son. Sonic loves his supports.
  2. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I'd be happy to send him up there to live with you. :)
  3. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    But that's how he see's it. To admit he needs help is to admit to a fault, to admit that he has been doing wrong, to admit that he is broken. That is a BIG part of younger society today, we don't repair most things anymore so broken equals something to be discarded.
  4. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    He's very, very touchy about the suggestions that there's anything "wrong" with him. He takes it very personally and when I've suggested even counseling or a psychiatrist, he's actually said, "Do you really think I'm that broken?" His very words.
  5. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I hadn't seen your post before I did...but yeah, that's it exactly. If something is broken or has something wrong with it, you throw it out, you don't waste your time and money fixing it. At least, that's a big part of our wasteful society.

    How to make him see that it's not broken? That different doesn't mean "lesser".
  6. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    He has a VERY negative opinion (go figure :sigh:) of "fringe members" of society. While at the shelter, he was constantly berating the "crazies" who were there.
  7. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Sorry Honey, no idea.
  8. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    You're not the only one here. :p
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Lil... if my kid was another 5 years older... I might actually take you up on the challenge. ;)

    I kind of look out for "fellow Aspies" out there... I know what it's like, and it ain't pretty. Neurotypicals have NO idea, even when they think they do. And half of what gets thrown at us as "help" makes it worse... and it's OUR fault that it doesn't work???

    It's easier to catch it early. Many of us didn't have that option, and may kids today still fall between the cracks.
  10. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    ...and of course, maybe he isn't an Aspie, maybe he's just a lazy, jerk. I have to admit, I do think that it's very, very likely that he is though. I actually researched it when he was young. I didn't think it was severe enough to really worry about. I should have tried harder.

    And the guilt starts again.
  11. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    We don't know, we have NO idea. No, its not our sons fault that the help offered doesn't work, its his fault that he wont even consider other options. Sorry, this whole thing has me a bit touchy right now.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member


    It is not YOUR fault - not Lil's either.

    It's also not your son's fault.

    Looking for somewhere to place blame? School systems and medical systems that are totally geared to crushing people who are different, but not "different enough" to obviously need a diagnosis and help.

    My son has the advantage of having parents that share some of the same diagnosable traits... I had have a chance at figuring out what he was thinking, at least some of the time - and had to literally SIT on his Dad to get him to shut up and back off because his first reaction was... he's just lazy, he could if he just put in effort, etc. Your son? probably takes after biodad, who isn't around. So he's left with TWO parents who haven't been down that road. No different than an adopted kid with challenges.

    I get the being touchy stuff. That's how we were when school and medical communities continued to insist that the whole problem was OUR parenting. If we just bought this, put him into that, dropped our standards considerably... NO! NONE of that was the problem. We got ALMOST NO help from anybody until ONE high school resource teacher figured him out a bit... and the next help was as an adult.
  13. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    This is true with our son too. While me and his dad actually did screw up big time with him few times and made lots of smaller mistakes, he never blames us. Ask him any time and he will tell you he has great parents, who have always been there for him and an amazing kid brother.

    He used to deflect lot of blame to others, everything was someone else's fault, things were unfair, everyone was out to get him and so on, but he never blamed family. Then things happened and that bravado broke down. Nowadays he blames others less and himself more. Sees, and articulates, himself as a rotten apple from good background. Damaged goods, unfit. Feels he is the one that screws everything up.

    When things are better, he doesn't verbalize that much and is able to see how he could work things out, but when the worse patch hits, all that tends to come out. And I know that this is how he thinks deep down even during better times, he just has more ability to cover it then.

    To be honest, I kind of wish, he would rather blame us. His raw self-hatred is heartbreaking and scary.

    But as much as it sucks, where is nothing others can do to that. Help can be offered but one has to accept it and do the work themselves.

    This was very much our situation few years back, when Ache was 17 to 19. Admitting something was different or wrong in him was a gradual process for us. Don't know if that would had happened if Ache wouldn't had been in the situation where outside element (his then team/employer) wouldn't had coerced him to meet neurologist, psychiatrist and sport psychologist. For us the sport psychologist (whom he still sees after quite a few teams between) has been heaven sent and probably been the main factor in guiding Ache to admit his issues and also see them as something that can be worked out, most of the time at least.

    Ache has matured and that is part of it, but I doubt he would be in the place he is now, if he would not had been forced to accept help.

    Unfortunately most people do not have the situation where someone has such a leverage and uses it to benefit the troubled kid.
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  14. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    If your son went to testing and was diagnosed with Aspergers (or whatever) do you think it would be a good thing for him? The way you are describing him, it worries me that he would be devastated by this.

    Would it make things worse (in his head) or better to know?
  15. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    @AppleCori - I've seen it in other kids, plus my own. Because Asperger's is NOT treatable by medication, often just understanding that we ARE different makes a huge difference. We can identify with public figures who are Aspie. We can do amazing things... at a cost to our social skills, among other things.

    It helps for an introvert to understand introversion. Does a kid hide behind that label? maybe a few do, but more are relieved at the understanding it brings. Just because we don't shine in a large group doesn't mean we don't shine. Just because we don't make good presentations doesn't mean we don't have good ideas. Asperger's is more like that than many other diagnoses.
  16. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    In our kid? To be perfectly honest, I doubt it would help him at this point in his life. He tends to think that "different" means "wrong" or "broken". We don't know why he thinks this...we don't act that way. We're big nerds, hardly the life of the party ourselves. So at this point in his life, my fear would be that he'd take it as an excuse for failure, instead of "Oh! Now I can understand, get assistance, and overcome."
  17. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Then you have done what you can. That is all you can do. Remember that you offered this resource to your son for his benefit, not yours, and that you offered it at the appropriate time. Then, however this works out, that will be one area where you can meet your own eyes in the mirror, forever.

  18. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    But Jabber and Lil, he is a person, not a car or a microwave or a piece of paper. Can you explain to him that he IS valuable and worth investing in because he is NOT expendible? I know it's hard. I was so ashamed the first three years I took my first medication. I thought it was proof that I was "crazy." My 20's were so hard. I had to accept without any doubt that I was different and I acted out and felt rotten and not as worthy as others.

    But time is on your side and it was on my side too. That "lesser than" feeling just because I had to take a pill wore off and now I"m grateful that there is medication for mood disorders and I wish there had been more help for young people with neurological impairments back in the day. Eventually I think he'd see it as a good thing.

    If he is on the spectrum, medication is not really needed so that would not be an issue. He just needs to know that getting help means he IS valuable and worthwhile or nobody would bother to want to help him. Does that sound better?
  19. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member


    I'm afraid it's all kind of academic at this point anyway. If he goes to Job Corps, there's no TIME to talk to time to get him time to make him see reason.

    And even if he doesn't go to Job Corps and he does agree to be tested, he's still homeless and couch-surfing and ...

    I don't know that I can take much more of the conversation right now. My brain hurts.

  20. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Most famous person I can think of who is presumed by many to be Aspie is Bill Gates. Didn't slow him down :)