Hey, Cedar, or anyone interested in FOO (Family of Origin) issues. Cedar, WHY NOW???

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
So, I can stop feeling anything one way or another about this. I can let go, and trust that I know what I know: that I handled it well when I believed in them, and that I will handle it well now that I don't.

You see the underlying fear, here.

This has changed. I am through it.

Thank you.

***

This quote was on FB this morning:

The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not "get over" the loss. You will learn to live with it. You will heal and you will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again. You will not be the same. Nor would you want to be.

That is Elisabeth Kubler-Ross.

So, this quote tells us about sacred space. It describes honoring the self.

There is not going to be a celebration for me; there is not going to be a conclusion. Nothing is going to resolve. It is what it is. There are no surprises; not really. There is the same wicked mindset spewed out in a thousand directions, seeping through a thousand layers of time and of mind, forever telling the same pointlessly stupid, forever unchangeable story.

There is no redemption, here.

That change in perspective is golden.

I will grieve it forever, as I should. It matters very much that I do not have what I need. It matters that I was hurt; it matters, that I was tricked.

Like it always is with abuse, that I was targeted and ridiculed and hurt and shamed had nothing to do with me. I was not born a victim. I was victimized. In every way they could hurt me, on every level, both my mother and my sister did choose to hurt me. What my mother and my sister did to me, and to all of us, was very wrong. I am surprised how simple, how right and real, this seems to me, now.

Believe them, when they tell you who they are. That's paraphrasing Maya.

In any event, we did it. I am through it. Even the strangulation memory is no longer me seeing me through the abuser's eyes. This is major. I am seeing the abuser's intent, and I am seeing a terrified, and a very little, girl. Six year old children are tiny little beings. It sickens me to know what she did. She sickens me. My mother ~ the woman she created of herself ~ sickens me. Prior to working things through here, it was myself I was sickened by. I imagined myself begging and crying, screaming out and wanting to live and wanting to breathe and there was no air. Now, I see the fat, raging woman. I see who she would have to be to do that to anyone. I see who she would have to be to do that to a child between 30 and 50 pounds. I see who she would have to be, to do that to any child. I see who she would have to be to control who she was in the company of adults; I understand what that means, who that makes her. I feel compassion for myself. I feel anger and I feel the disgust and I feel echoes of the terror that must have been, and of the horror in acceptance.

No air.

Princesses of dark, timeless lands without water or air.


As it always does when something core is healed, other incidents, shadowy things, are drifting in, coalescing, healing.

I did not know I would ever work through that strangulation incident.

But I have.

My mother is a despicable woman. My sister is a despicable person.

Thank you for sticking with me.

It worked.

***

This morning, healing is occurring. I can feel it happening. It is like coming out of an illness, or waking up from a dream. I see my mother, my sister, my brother, differently. I even respect my brother for the choice he has made to see this thing through. It cannot be easy for him. He does not need my protection. He is a man. He is not that little boy whose eyes met mine. (I burn now, with anger at the stupidly out of control fat woman hurting a child, hurting a beautiful little boy. Making him scream. In all of my life, that burning intensity of feeling was directed at myself. Powerless; coward; fraud. Like me, my brother lived. However he puts these pieces together is for him to do.

Instead of shame, I feel distaste and a bright, burning, anger-tinged disgust. I would have been entirely correct in deciding, as I had done as a young woman, never to see any of them again.

I wish they did not have my pictures.

Here again, widening the scope, tasting the flavor of the other interactions in the lives of our abusers gives us the truth of our own situations. Why literally doesn't matter. We are not going to find the sense of the thing in sifting through the ten thousand traumas of chronic abuse. What we can do, finally, is name what is for what it is. That is where I was having trouble.

Believe them the first time they tell you who they are.

I truly did not cause this. My behaviors are not creating or feeding or even, impacting much about any of this. If they come, if they call...I don't know. I truly do not want their footsteps here on this sweet ground that is mine. I do not want their breathing presences polluting the air of my home. The conflict here was within me. I would never allow exclusion. That time is over. I no longer have to welcome or include. Truly, they are despicable people.

I am the one who had the heart.

I still do.

In losing them, I lose nothing. Yet, I honor the loss. For my sake, I honor the determination and the risk and the courage and the loss. That is who I am.

I did not create a situation in which through some intentional act of omission, I lost the right to the beautifully legitimate warmth and support and validation that is family. I no longer feel myself on the outside looking in. I am inside. They will never be welcome.

I see them for what they are; I know them through their choices over time. I know them through the repetitious patterns of their lives. It is a small and inconsequential thing to give up that role of protector or believer or lover that I held for their sakes.

Very beautifully quiet, here.

No echoes. I survived some terrible things. I am home, now.

Having reworked all this ugliness here has enabled me to accept, to validate the undeniable true thing that my family or origin functioned then and functions still, on hatred and on contempt and on trickery.

I will never know why; I will never find the magic key that unlocks some mysterious something and brings us all through this. It isn't that they're idiots. They know now, and they knew then, what they were doing.

They always knew what they were doing.

The difference this morning is that I understand now that the only way I could interact with them was by creating an internal reality in which both past and present day episodes of cruelty were discounted in favor of some utopian future reality. That is an apt description of faith. It is never wrong to hold faith. But there is a serious difference between Bingo and chess. I play chess. I play with an eye to the future and a willingness to forgive the past. They play Bingo. They probably have twelve cards each in front of them, all the distracting bells and buzzers meaning life, to them.

I am outside it, now.

Had I not been seeing them, had they never been given access to me or to my own family, there would not have been a need to create hope for the future in the face of the rotten pointlessness of the present.

But that's what I did.

There are no answers in the past. It is good to know that what happened was never my fault, was not due to some shortcoming in me. Shame for these issues ~ man, and I carried so much of it ~ is gone. There is a kind of shocked disbelief. There is a cry for justice. I feel anger, not that they don't get it, but that they did these thing to me, or to anyone.

I am no longer vulnerable because I am no longer in denial.

It is what it is because that is the way abusive relationship works. Staying tied into it, trying harder, believing for the best ~ all those things are amazing things. But not in intentionally chronically abusive relationship.

We are free.

Our relationships with our mothers, and with our sibs, display every component of classic abusive relationship. The way we see them, the way we blame ourselves, that our locuses of control lie with them and not within ourselves ~ all that stuff ~ these are classic symptoms of abusive relationship.

They don't want to change. They are not sorry. It does not occur to them to be sorry.

They lie. Every abuser lies, presenting their realities and requiring we believe them. That is the essential difference between us and them. Between ourselves and any abuser. They lie, and they believe their own lies, knowing they are lies. That is where the difference happens. That is why some people abuse others.

They lie.

We are fortunate to have survived our childhoods.

I don't want to think kindly about them, or think forgiving thoughts surrounding what they do to me. I don't want to view them with compassion, because they do know what they are doing.

So there is nothing to say. My sister can call as often as she likes until I change my number. She can stalk me forever. She has grown pale to me, now. There is no core of her, no heart in her. I feel tricked regarding my feelings for my sister. That is not her fault. I am the one who tricked myself. There is a sense of distaste for her, now. My mother: I don't care. Whatever I decide to do when her time comes will be the right thing. As time passes after she is gone, my tendency will be to rework it, to find some meaning in what she did to me.

There is no meaning.

I am so surprised. I thought this would end with some kind of answer ~ maybe with a new way I could be, once I was shame free, that would change the nature of the interactions between myself and my family of origin. I no longer believe there is any way to change any of it. It has always been what it is, today. It will always be what it always was by their choice.

Because they do lie.

Even to themselves.

I don't care.

I feel questions now, but they whirl around how I ever believed so sincerely that this could be changed, could be healed. I was correct when I was young and wanted nothing to do with them. It was D H who insisted family mattered, who insisted that we see them, that we welcome them, that we have them over for dinner. To allow the vulnerability required to interact with any of them, I had to believe they could change. If I had it to do over, I would not choose to have them in my life, or in any of our lives. I have been, we all have been, hurt and humiliated and ridiculed.

And there is the answer regarding my mother's death.

I will not regret turning away. I regret having given them access to me, to my children, to our lives or our homes or our hearts or our thoughts.
I regret having given her, my mother ~ or my sister ~ access in any way. I will not make that mistake again.

Cedar

I am so happy to know these things, SWOT and Copa. It has been a long, harrowing journey.

Thank you for witnessing for me. Knowing you were there made it possible for me to keep going. I am safe from them now. I no longer believe in them. I believe very much in myself.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I do hate my sister. That is true. But I love her too. I must, because I keep checking Zillow to see how much her house is worth. That can't be hate, because no matter what I say I want vengeance I am not a vengeful person.

Could you be trying to figure out what is real, Copa? Could it be that you hate the way she reflects who you are to you, but you feel hypnotized into looking, into believing, because you have her on a pedestal in your heart labeled "sister"?

I learned I don't love the actual, flesh and blood person who is my sister. I love the sister I believed her into being. In reality, she never was that sister I loved.

And she certainly despises me.

She would have to. People do not treat people they love badly.

You are left holding the bag for all of the feelings.

Yes. And trying to make sense of how the bad parts could have happened. But then, as we really begin reviewing the courses of our relationships with the abusers in our lives, we realize there was never a good part. Not one, not once. We imagined there must be. We forgave what was and believed in them; we believed they were like us.

They are not.

Your mother did a very, very bad and evil thing. It had nothing in the world to do with your intrinsic worth. She was a damaged person, highly damaged. But I still believe that had she permitted it, you would have cared for her. She did not.

Not only that. Like my mother, SWOT's mom played a vicious game to the lengths she was capable of. Reaching right out of the grave to sink that knife one more time.

Despicable.

Wizened and shriveled and toxic.

I think that with respect to SWOT's mother, the hatred was in her, for herself. And she was so toxic and damaged that when she looked at SWOT she saw her own reflection, and she was rejecting herself, not SWOT.

I used to think that way too. But then how do we account for the salesmanlike quality of these personalities? They routinely dehumanize everyone around them. They take money from strangers on airplanes, from sisters and grandmothers and friends. They expect us to buy them things and look down on us when we do not. They take and take and take and never give. When they do give, they call it "seeding into". (That is what my sister calls anything she does. Seeding into.) We give from a generous spirit. We give for the happiness in it, for the flash of self and other in it.

But we have a problem with taking.

That is the difference.

What I think you are tripping over, SWOT, is that you are still not forgiving yourself.

And I think that is my problem, too. I am not forgiving myself for either my mother or my son.

Yes, and we so merit forgiveness and strong loving. Strong, strong loving, and joy.

Because, SWOT, that was who she was. Not you. Not me. We are love. Except that everything got all mixed up inside of us because we were made to believe everything was our fault and our responsibility and it was not.

We don't understand their realities. We keep trying to make the things they do fit into a constellation of stars they have never seen.

Too bad, because I want vengeance. Especially about the pictures she stole. The few baby pictures of my beautiful mother. My baby pictures. My son's. My grandparents. My father. But, especially my Mother's baby pictures. I hope she rots in H-ll. Not.

Then I will describe this true thing for you, Copa. She played a mean and dirty trick. That mindset, the mindset from which she operates and through which she filters reality, that is Hell. The reality from which she greets each day, that is Hell.

You did not put her there. You cannot save her from it.

She chose it.

She chooses it every day she does not return those things that are yours, and that are precious to you.

That is a choice for her. Could this be a part of how she holds you in thrall, Copa?

I am out of time for today. Baklava grand is here and we are going out for the day, and for dinner.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I learned I don't love the actual, flesh and blood person who is my sister. I love the sister I believed her into being. In reality, she never was that sister I loved.

And she certainly despises me.

She would have to. People do not treat people they love badly.
Back from work and checking in. It's like I just love this little therapy thread we have going.

Anyway, you are so right. We actually do have women who were in the same womb as us. But did they ever care about us? Did they know us? I didn't ever know my sister, other than her friendly facade, and she did not k now me...at least not until the end when I, at least, feel I have a deeper understanding of this woman. From what I did read about myself, in her words, she did not understand ME, but it doesn't matter.

Copa, it is hurtful in my opinion to know what these strangers (and they are actually strangers) are doing. I find I can not completely disconnect if I so much as look at anything about either of them online. Putting them not only on no contact, but on no knowledge of what they are doing has made a huge difference in my ability to get free of them. That is the only way I can feel completely disconnected from them. And it's a weight-off-my-shoulders feeling that I can't explain. Who cares what your sisters house is worth? Who cares if she's taking a walk? She is living her life and you are living yours. Before the internet we didn't know. We don't NEED to know.

As long as we let their reality and life into our lives, even if we don't speak to them, they are so real to us and we can go back to that time when they caused us pain. And certainly, with the social media, there is no way they can hide from us completely or keep their experiences completely from us. But we don't have to look.

There is nothing wrong with looking if it makes you feel better.

I am just sharing my own experience. It is really working well for me. I already feel as if they don't even exist anymore. Like cartoon characters. I know that many people can not do it to their FOO. But it was done so much to me that I had to learn how and it has been a useful skill, I feel, at least in my case. I do know all of us are different.

I refuse to mourn those who want to hurt me. They are dead to me. I do not mean I WANT them dead or sick or to suffer because I don't wish that of anybody. All I mean is that, as far as how much I want to do with them, they may as well be dead. I hope this doesn't sound bad. I hope I expressed it in a way that you understand.

We do not have to suffer.

We suffer when we cheat.
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
In any event, we did it. I am through it. Even the strangulation memory is no longer me seeing me through the abuser's eyes. This is major. I am seeing the abuser's intent, and I am seeing a terrified, and a very little, girl. Six year old children are tiny little beings. It sickens me to know what she did. She sickens me. My mother ~ the woman she created of herself ~ sickens me. Prior to working things through here, it was myself I was sickened by. I imagined myself begging and crying, screaming out and wanting to live and wanting to breathe and there was no air. Now, I see the fat, raging woman. I see who she would have to be to do that to anyone. I see who she would have to be to do that to a child between 30 and 50 pounds. I see who she would have to be, to do that to any child. I see who she would have to be to control who she was in the company of adults; I understand what that means, who that makes her. I feel compassion for myself. I feel anger and I feel the disgust and I feel echoes of the terror that must have been, and of the horror in acceptance.
This is a major breakthrough and I just want to cyber-applaud you. This is so true. And how dare these toxic mother, who should not have had children, make little kids feel ashamed of ourselves..to the point that it follows us even now. Shame on THEM, not us. Shame on HER, not you.

Who strangles a little child? And then blames you for it? Did she say "You asked for it!"

You have come so far. Those who were there and saw it and deny it should also feel ashamed. Shame on them too.

The more I read about childhood trauma, the more I read that the first early years that we don't remember are critical. I can only imagine the abuse OR neglect (just as bad) we faced by the mothers who gave little babies and little children trauma that will never 100% go away.

SHAME ON THEM! KUDOS TO YOU!

To us!

:hugs:
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
But then how do we account for the salesmanlike quality of these personalities?
Although many personality-disordered people have this salesman, charisma, not all do. My mom had no social skills and did not have any friends the entire duration I knew her. I hear she joined some dancing group and had friends there. It is easier to make friends when you all have one interest in common.

She did not drive. She did not dress up or try to look nice (she was extremely pretty). She did not actually get on well with strangers and she made nasty comments about every single friend I ever had and any boyfriend I liked. She was overly engaging to boyfriends I didn't like. Weird, I know. But she was different. Closed up. Alone. Talked more to her mother than anybody as they gossiped about the family non-stop. I could hear her mostly degrading my father to my grandmother. I don't remember if we were even on the radar.

I read a lot about neglect. She didn't exactly neglect us. We had food. We had clothes, although she insisted on sewing my clothes and only did the styles SHE liked. But we had that. I've read of abused kids who were deprived of that. However, she did not play with us or like to play with us or guide us or teach us anything worthy or show us coping skills. She was the laziest woman on the planet when it came to parenting. She tossed us all three into the world with no world-skills at all.

Copa and Cedar, she was oblivious to what others thought. We lived in a very wealthy suburb yet we lived in a run down house, because they never fixed it up or worked on it, and we had no furniture well into my teens. I mean no furniture. Our living room had a desk. Nothing to sit on. It was cold in there so I used to sit on the floor by the heating vent. I remember once when a boy picked me up for a date. I was as clueless as a bird. I did not realize or care what the hosue would look like to an outsider. When we got in the car, he asked, "Did you just move in?"

I told him no and asked why.

And he said, "Well, because you have no furniture."

I do not consider this abuse, although they could have come up with furniture OR they did not have to have moved into a rich town. This set me up for ridicule from my classmates, but again I don't consider this abuse. I think it just shows that my mother and maybe father too were so screwed up they didn't care about normal things, such as having a place to sit in the living room.

And a child was born to this strange lady...

And she had most of the caregiving as Dad was never home. Not that he would have known what to do with children either, but unfortunately because she was the one there, doing the deeds, she is the one I blame.

I got off topic. I have every symptom of complex post traumatic stress disorder and it scares me. Every symptom of it.

And I still tell myself, "Oh, it wasn't that bad. Nobody hit us. Nobody sexually abused us. Others had it worse." I can not totally accept that I have this disorder and do not always believe even my therapists (and there were far more than one) who claimed I have every symptom of child abuse.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I can not totally accept that I have this disorder and do not always believe even my therapists (and there were far more than one) who claimed I have every symptom of child abuse.

For all of us SWOT I think, time will heal us. Just to remember what happened, just to understand how wrong so much of it was, is a gift to us. We have time, now. We are all grown up. We are the ones making the choice, this time. In those times when we were little, we had no choice in the matter at all.

I feel so badly about your negative tapes, SWOT. You know in your heart that they are not true assessments. We have lived our lives with those words and phrases echoing in our heads. The damage is done, for us. But we can see, in the evidence of our lives, that these things our mothers told us were not true things, after all.

They were never true.

Isn't that something. Imagine our lives without these kinds of trauma, without such heavy burdens of shame.

That's where we are going to be when we are finished. Nice and free and easy and kind and never ashamed over anything we haven't done, ever again.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Isn't that something. Imagine our lives without these kinds of trauma, without such heavy burdens of shame.
The shame to me is just being me. I'm just not worth it. But I don't really believe that.
One thing I do when the tapes play is remind myself of all the good things I've done in my lifetime and then the tapes turn off. The more I *poof* even my still living FOO and think about myself as a stand alone, I feel good about myself.

But there is a book I'm reading about complex post traumatic stress disorder and in it it talks about emotional flashbacks. They are not the visual ones veterans can get from trauma. They are when something or somebody or an event takes you back to being that little girl and you feel the eerie de juv a of those days. This is often what causes panic disorder. I did not know. I just assumed I was born with a damaged nervous system and was prone to anxiety and panic disorder and depression. Maybe that's partly it, b ut these emotional flashbacks are definitely panic attacks. I recognize them as such.

I am using my tools, as COM says, to cut them off when they start up. I self-soothe. "You are just experiencing something that will never happen again." I do deep breathing and that is VERY calming. And then I practice distraction.

And I avoid triggers.

I know my triggers.

You know yours too.

We are already triumphant.

Living well is the best revenge. I believe that.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am judging myself harshly because you, Cedar, have ejected the internalized self-condemnation for deeds and deficits that were not your own. And I cannot move beyond this limbo and I am back to bed these last few days.
The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not "get over" the loss. You will learn to live with it. You will heal and you will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again. You will not be the same. Nor would you want to be.
I have been frail the past few days. Feeble again. Again I fear that I will never get up from bed.

I ask myself I use the return to bed to shame and blame myself, and that is it's power. I mean to say, do I go back to bed in order to take the winds from my sails? An means to restore equilibrium when I have flown to far or to fast. Or is it what I accuse myself, that I am inherently weak and broken and will never again have a life of which I can be proud or a person that deserves self-regard.

Because each of these leads to a far different conclusion. Let me explore a bit, the former, and new way to see things. That I scare myself by moving too fast and too far and use the bed as a way to slow myself down.

I like this. Even though it can have a negative aspect, it does not have to have the sense of deserve...It could also embody self-care, modulation. That I do not have to rush, to chase, to flee. The desperate quality does not have to be there.

In other words, I am returning to bed to rest.

And that is how it begins. I return to bed to rest. But then something takes over. When I go to bed too much or for too long and when I do not want to do anything more than be in bed, I far different and crueler voice becomes dominant.

And I recognize that voice, and it is that of my mother. And with that voice I cannot recover myself.

I begin to feel I will never, ever not need to be in bed. That I am old. Retired. My life is over. There are no more third, and fourth acts to come. It is over.

Except this cannot be the likely end. Because the fallback is M. I love him. He loves me. The worst case, if I go blind (which I fear) or I guess worse than that would be a stroke...he would be with me. At least I hope so. And life is good with him. If he was all I had for the rest of my life...and the things of home and domesticity it would be enough. Because I have never had it before. Such a treasure for me. There is still so much to do here. I have 2 sewing machines. 2 Looms (table),a closet full of yarn. I have raw wool. I have 2 spinning wheels. A dozen spindles. I have embroidery floss, and crochet hooks and knitting needles. Because M loves this too. I have cameras. I have yet to make a garden in the back. And I have a profession, if I can one day return to it. There would be enough. If I could go nowhere ever again. I have enough. If I have M.

But then I fight. I feel he is ordering me around. Or that he is raining on my parade. Telling me I cannot do this or that. And it is not so.

Is that my Mother too?

So if I look at things from the perspective that I have described, the tyranny is to feel desperate that I need to go across country to a big city to have a life. That I am always at a disadvantage, lacking and need to leave to get something to be complete. That I am always on the margin between what is not enough, missing something I need, and wanting more. And only there between the missing and the wanting is where I live.

The fights with M seem to center around two things that symbolize to me the getting better, the regaining of a life. That our house is finally fully arranged and beautiful and that our interests are handled here where we live. And that we be able to go to a large urban area across the country, for a new chapter. For adventure and possibility.

If I look at things with this newly gained perspective, what does finishing the house mean. It means leaving to again seek more. And the other piece of this has always been...because I am not enough....by life is incomplete....I need more. To be more...to have more.

So that is the quandary. The reality is. I have enough. I am enough. Finally, I am at peace. Except I will not allow it.

Who is it that spun the gold thread, Rumpelstelskin, and then unwove it, I cannot remember why but I will find it. Because something bad would happen if she completed her work. And that is who I find myself now.

I am not letting myself finish the house. I am not letting myself get up from bed. And why? Do I fear I will lose M, if I get too strong. Too better? Is this returning to bed a way of not losing what I have? Are going to bed and unweaving my house, a means to keep the status quo? No longer because I do not have enough but because I have too much? And want even more?

I have always lived seeking the possible. I had so little on which to build a future. So vulnerable. As I explained to M yesterday. If only 3 hairs on my head were apt for possibility and growth and 30,000 not, I would go with the 3. Fearing nothing. Because to me the fear was to stay in place. Nothing could be worse than stagnation. And the risk meant nothing to me. Nothing at all.

And this M both grasps and does not. He wants me to see specifically what needs to be handled and what we put at risk to go forward. And every time he says these words I rage at him because I feel he is telling me no, that I can't, that I must stay here, that I will never have another phase in my life. That it is the end. This is my last chapter. And so I start thinking when I will be put in a nursing home, like my mother.

Even I can see that is extreme. So then, M, under stands that somehow when he speaks about being conscious of the costs or risks...I somehow end upon feeling as if somebody is killing me and that I my life is over...and I will have nothing at all.

(I need to insert here something that I am remembering. That as a child and teen I always wanted to run away. And I did, more than once. As early as Kindergarten, I ran away. I did not bolt. I chose it. But I remember my mother telling me she used to have to hold my hand so tight because she was afraid I would run into the street away from her into the traffic. But then sometimes I believed this to be her wish. Except those times had been so special. Shopping. She loved shopping. Always. And she was happy out and shopping. She would buy me a hot roast beef sandwich with gravy on top. And for desert, chocolate cream pie. And this little, little girl would eat it all.)

And then I remember that I have M. And then I feel mixed. I never really had anybody before. But I want Tango, and I want Art School, not to forget every type of textile arts class, and I want to walk and walk and walk on City Streets. And I want to go to a Bridge Club in a big city like I did before. And I want to speak Portuguese, and Spanish too. And I want to put together Boho outfits better suited to a 20 year old and not care one bit. And I want M, too. And I want this house. I cannot ever imagine not wanting this house. And I do not know why. Because nothing really is here. Except that it is home and safe. And all this stuff. And I freak out when I think M is telling me I have to leave here. And I go to bed. Because everything, just everything is too much.

I have had many acts in my life, mostly related to either goals or jobs or places lived. Not to relationships because my mistrust of others and vulnerability kept me insulated to a much greater extent than are most women, I think.

Except for my son. And if I had to guess why I am again despairing, it is because of him. He is not calling. I do not know where he is. His phone no longer connected, I cannot call him. I called his friend and the Dad said he had not heard from him in a while. Where is my son?

And why is it that I am unable to develop a thicker skin? Detaching is not in the main related to something that can be defined in time or space. It is a way to be...in oneself that is able to live, to be, suspended from need and to allow others the same. To not live as emotionally conjoined with the other. To believe, and to know and to feel that one lives and thrives separated from the other.

And this I am not. What is it to say that my son is the air I breathe...and yet when I am with him...I suffocate.

And I guess or at least fear that he feels the same about me. Not good.

So, I guess I have to go back to my mother and father. In order to separate from my son. I had a bad depression after I learned my father was dead. My mother sent me a letter 4 years after my father had actually died. That was her way of reaching out.

At that time I had not seen or spoken with my mother in 5 years, having seen her last at the funeral from my grandfather. We had already been estranged for 3 years when my grandfather died. I had already made the choice to not see my beloved grandfather if the price was to see my mother.

So, my Mother wrote a letter telling me my father had been dead 4 years. And this was shortly after a beloved had left. I bought a house. I went to bed for 6 months only leaving the house when I had run out of money.

It was then that I decided to adopt my son. I had reached the point of being unable to live with only myself and goals.

I had had many years of therapy, and when I can figure out a way to tell you about what had happened there, I will tell you. I came out of that believing I was irretrievably broken. With no way to fix myself. From that place I adopted my son.

Followed years and years of love and contentment. I established my career. We moved many places. We traveled to many countries. My son had issues, but we were complete in our love. I got services for him. But the problems I was always able to externalize to the world outside of us.

Let me know try to find some way to put together these pi eces. I adopted my son when I had been broken apart. I felt that through loving him I could heal. It had been a miracle. He thrived with our love. Whatever issues there were not "us."

Until they were. Our troubles started at an age-appropriate point. He was 15. By the time we left Brazil, the conflict had become so that he had broken my foot. I had not been ready to leave but I could no longer dance. For a month I tried, with a broken foot. I could no longer deceive myself and we returned to the States.

If I look at the recurrent themes in this document. Broken and seeking what is needed to be whole. Missing parts and trying to find them. Broken but strong enough to seek what is missing.

And still my son and I were functioning, working in a dysfunctional way. I kept on working in my profession. And life marched on. And life still worked when I met M. Life dictated by fixing the house and working and trying to figure out what to do with my son. Until my mother got ill.

I want to tell you about M. His combination of strength and morality and kindness and care and hardness. How he always holds back something of himself. So that everything he gives is freely given. Because he decides. And can take it back. If he wants. There is something so reassuring about that to me, that he can walk away. If he decides. It is like I will never be consumed by him. He is separate. He chooses. And so do I.

Cedar wrote something a week or two ago, about husband. She said I will miss him. And I wondered, where is husband going? And how after 40 something years can Cedar think about a time without him, without crumbling?

I say to myself, I will not be able to live without M. He is the mother and father and best friend that I never had. That is to say that I trust him most of the time.

I wonder how I lived independently all those years and fear that without M, I will shrivel up again like a conjoined twin, then lacking an essential organ without him. And yet I was alone most of my life, except for my son.

I will grieve it forever, as I should. It matters very much that I do not have what I need. It matters that was hurt; it matters, that I was tricked.
So maybe this is the key. That I stand up and say a version of this: I needed you and you failed me. You, when I could not stand or sustain myself without you, chose instead to turn away. Instead you sustained yourself at my expense.

And my world was forever defined this. Defined as prey I sought always to escape that trap. Living in a series of temporary and transitory lives...that were always not enough because I was not enough. And when my son needed to stand alone I saw it as a betrayal. Because I had needed him and his love to be whole. And he had needed me to be whole and self-sustaining...and to let him go...to be himself.

And it is that that I feel so disabling. Because I was never ever whole, at least in the image of myself.

Believe them, when they tell you who they are.
I believed them. That is why I left them. And then I decided to go back. To go back to take care of my mother. I re-entered the dangerous killing fields to go back for my mother.

There was an artist with the BauHaus group in Austria, I think it was. And she and her husband were taken by the Nazi's. And as she was taken instead of gathering personal effects she gathered art materials. And in the camp where she was taken there were children. And in the months she was there she taught those children art. How to use art to escape their confinement. How to use art to express their pain and to mourn their losses. How to transcend their degradation and soar beyond the walls of their camps to create their own lives symbolically. And of 500 or so children with whom she worked, maybe only 30 or so survived. The rest were murdered as was she.

Because she (falsely) believed that her husband had been taken to Auschwitz to be executed. So she volunteered for the next train. That was who she was. And she was taken to Auschwitz and was soon killed. With her husband to mourn her. Frida Dickers Kramers, I think is her name.

And that is what I did. When my mother was dying I went back for her. I knew where I was going and I chose it.

I went knowing the risks to me. I may not have known it would result in my death. I soon would know. And I did. I tried to escape one time. I went back again.

And I did not try to escape again. I went deeper and deeper into the camp. I stayed.

I did not die with my mother. Or right after. It came later.

It seemed while I grieved her, I had developed a mortal illness. My real life came to seek me out. And it would not leave me alone.

Finally, I had stopped. I could no longer run. I could no longer run for some other life. My real life finally I could not escape.

Still, I ask myself, why is this so hard?

I believe that I have mourned my mother. The pain is less. It got somewhat better when I was able to see the hardness in her in that one photograph. I was then able to remember the reality of things, instead of mourning what had never been.

She sickens me. My mother ~ the woman she created of herself ~ sickens me. Prior to working things through here, it was myself I was sickened by.
I share some of this disgust and the shifting from self-disgust to disgust for my Mother.

My home is filled with her things. Much of her clothes will return with M's mother to Mx. As my Mother played G-d with her money, much of it stolen from my sister and I, she bought the most trivial and unnecessary things. I can see in my home, my lesser value. I was worth less than vases, picture frames, clothes, purses, shoes and pretty much. Everything else.

In all of my life, that burning intensity of feeling was directed at myself. Powerless; coward; fraud.
I guess Cedar, as I read this I can insert guilty as the self-accusation.

What's that thing, Karaoke. Where you sing the words and go through the motions.

I am singing they are the guilty ones, my father, my mother, my sister.

But when does this theater become me.

When does saying it or mouthing it become my truth, turned into reality. All I want is to be able to stay out of bed all day. Except for those few months when I found out about my Father, this never happened before. I rebounded and rebounded. Always. And I even rebounded then.

My body and soul seem still to feel guilt. I must still believe that the crimes were mine. After all, why would anybody be punished if not for crimes that were theirs?

So I guess I am right there with SWOT. She judged herself as bad, because her mother could not be loving to her. Her mother could not respond with love or with attention or with care. And SWOT told her little self that the crime was her own. That had she been a good enough little girl, her mother would have treated her with love.

Bad, bad girl. So everything became about SWOT's badness. To justify the cruelty, the sadism of her mother, SWOT searched for more and more bad about herself. And it became a race between the child and the mother. The more that SWOT's mother failed the more SWOT raced to find deficits to justify the parent's failure.

My mother was extremely orderly and clean. So was my grandmother. As long as I can remember I liked chaos. Would sit on the floor of my room, surrounded by crayons and would draw on the floor (hardwood floors) and the walls, as far up on the walls as a little baby girl on a chair could reach.

And I would sit on the floor in the kitchen with pots and pans and their lids all around me and bang them. My music. I was making music. And somehow my mother allowed it. I think she loved me then. At least she wanted me out of her hair. But I think she loved me in the way that she could.

Was the crime how much I loved my father? Was it how much at heart I feared him? Was it that he loved me more than he did my Mother? Or that she believed he did? Or was it that I wanted him to love him more than he loved her? Or was it that I feared he loved me more than her and wished it was not so? Did I just want him to go away? Or was it that I wanted to leave? I do not know. Still.

Or was it that it that my mother was stuck at home. Beautiful. Restless. Self-centered. Stuck. A life she thought she had wanted but did not. My fault.

My mother crying at the window. Waiting for him. My sister and I huddled next to her on the floor. How could I make it better? How could I make her better? It was my job to make it better.

It was my job to fix my father. To make him happy. To make her happy.

How else could I be safe?

And their fights. Yelling. Throwing things. Strangling. Cruelty on both parts. My fault.

I lived in a house of dangers. Of extremes. Of extreme emotion. Of danger.

I loved my Mother. I thought I loved my father. I did not. If I ever did, I could find it in my heart. I do not.

Crimes borrowed from others? I have long suspected this. That my sense of guilt had been borrowed from the real perpetrators, whether my mother or father.

I have always looked vulnerable. Whether it was insecurity or timidity or femininity or self-doubt. I do not know. It did not feel like this inside. It felt like fear. Anxiety.

The sense of guilt was not ever-present and receded when I adopted my son. And my career helped a lot. Because it was such that I had to call on my strength, and whatever past vulnerability or victimization was present, seemed to reassure others, and served to unify us, and gave me the capacity to deeply understand suffering, as SWOT talks about, because it was me.

So, it seems as if the illness and death of my Mother and the events surrounding my son, and my relationship with him have triggered this deeply embedded sense as guilty, as criminally guilty.

And my sentence seems to be to spend the rest of my life in bed. And that I do not deserve a reprieve. Every time I go before the parole board, having tried to get my record in order. A next step, another chance, i am denied. By myself.

And with respect to the house, I get up and I try to work, and I am overwhelmed by the boxes, and the pictures to by hung and the painting and the curtain rods....and I go to bed. And I see and feel myself a failure. And every little thing is a new crime. And everything. Everything that I have already done...in the house and in my life...is not enough. Or so far, has not been. Enough to convince me that I deserve to continue living out of my bed.

The difference this morning is that I understand now that te only way I could interact with them was by creating an internal reality in which both past and present day episodes of cruelty were discounted in favor of some utopian future reality.
There used to be a TV show called Run for Your Life. It was about a man who had been accused falsely of killing his wife. He went from City to City running from the police while at the same time trying to prove his innocence. I fear I have lived like this. Running from city to city from goal to goal. To escape the truth of my self. And at the same time trying to get what I can out of life. Like a tumbleweed. No nutrients or water. No roots.

For most of my life I have have sought to know what was the crime, the deficiency from which I fled.

And now my son. I failed. The only one I was ever able to fix was myself. And ultimately, I could no longer anymore make myself better.

Humpty Dumpty.

I look like my mother, too. As a toddler, teen, and even now, as I age, I resemble her.

I was the pretty child, and stayed pretty until recently. I became ugly. But still others see pretty. And like with the house, nothing seems ever to take the ugly away. And yet the house is filled with beauty. What is there, even amidst the disarray, is beautiful. And I recognize it as such. The beauty cannot be stopped. Of the house. And this I have done. It came from me. But I cannot finish it without going back to bed.

I will conclude with the pictures. And wonder where they fit.

And all of my baby pictures and those of my son my sister took. As vengeance, I believe. And control. Because she could. She had my stuff. She illegally had her husband enter my dead mother's house and they deliberately stole. Because she could.

To hurt. To destroy. To control. To avenge. Because she could.

So much now exists now only in my mind's eye. Did my sister try to rob my life? And my image as pretty? Did she try to rob my grandparents from me? My son as a baby? Because she did return the small album of pictures of him before he was with me. What she robbed was our life together.

There is so much that I can forgive. Or if not forgive, at least distance myself. Why is it that I cannot find the knowledge and the growth in this and be thankful for what I do have. Not the pictures, anymore but this. Or that.

But maybe this is wrong. I am already closer to letting this go. By holding onto the pictures, I am giving my sister her power. Better this:

Everything I have ever had and needed I have. There is nothing missing that is essential to me.

Copa
 
Last edited:

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
emotional flashbacks. They are not the visual ones veterans can get from trauma. They are when something or somebody or an event takes you back to being that little girl and you feel the eerie de juv a of those days

Those shaming, intensely disorienting feelings of deja vu are where I have been working. When the feelings were too intense, I called in Maya Angelou or Lisa V or the black lady from Matrix to hear to witness for me. I would listen to what they thought of what they had seen. They saw a grown woman hurting a little girl. When I was alone with it, I could only see, I could only rehear and refeel what had happened through my abuser's eyes. In her eyes were the feelings of the deja vu incident. In calling in witnesses, in posting about the things I found so shaming I didn't want anyone to know, I was able to disbelieve the condemnation in the abuser's eyes.

I was able to feel disgust for the abuser's actions through Maya or Lisa. I was able to stand for and to see for myself through so much of it, because I knew you and Copa were here. I knew you did not believe those things of me.

I do not believe those things your mother said to you either, SWOT.

Like my mom did too, your mother lied.

I am happy for you that your therapist is such a good person. When you go back to rescue that little girl that you were then, you will not be alone with it, either.

That will make all the difference, SWOT. Copa and I will be right here, too.

***

Those deja vu feelings are what people who have been repeatedly traumatized ~ even brainwashed soldiers, even savagely abused adult women ~ come to believe is the real truth about them, however wonderful a person they really may be. That is why so many of us may marry an abusive mate, or can be so easily targeted by predators. We have a kind of fascination regarding abusive interaction. We keep trying to re-enact the abuse so we can heal it. Most often, we are retraumatized, instead of healed, in those kinds of relationships.

***

Where well-mothered children have a beaming, satisfied mother looking into the child's eyes, we have whatever emotion was being glared into us by our angry or contemptuous abusing moms. It isn't that we cannot live fully happy lives with that material in our pasts. We can. But for me at least, I became aware that those unresolved hurts were affecting me in the present.

They are gone, now.

The memories are emotionless shells of themselves when they were vibrantly toxic.

It will be okay, SWOT. We are meant to be whole.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I am judging myself harshly because you, Cedar, have ejected the internalized self-condemnation for deeds and deficits that were not your own. And I cannot move beyond this limbo and I am back to bed these last few days.

Oh, Copa, no. Please be so gentle with yourself, Copa. You will come through it, whole and strong and beautiful again.

SWOT and I are right here.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
And now my son. I failed. The only one I was ever able to fix was myself. And ultimately, I could no longer anymore make myself better.
I read every word of your post, Copa, and I felt your pain and I'm so sorry. I validate your feelings 100%. I validate your experience. I know it was that bad.

One thing I can not validate is that you ruined your son. You did not.
You adopted a child who, if anything, had a rough start and challenges due to this own birthparents and drugs in his little body before he was even born. You did not meet him until he was almost two a nd whatever happened to him before that could have caused his brain wiring to further be different. You did all you could for him and probably stimulated him so he reached a level he probably would not have met in somebody else's care. He is a struggling adult now. This is more typical than atypical for a child who was drug exposed in utero and adopted older than infancy. There is only so much you can do to erase the problems that you had nothing to do with.

You did not fail your son. You FEEL like you did. Please, please remember that feelings are not facts. I know. I do that myself sometimes.

"I *feel* worthless, therefore I am."

It is nonesense for both of us.

Copa, you can and I hope you do keep following your dreams. I will keep reading and pray for you and send you healing vibes. After I realized that my mother had thrown me to the dogs, it took me about two years to work on it before I accepted what it was. I never saw the writing in her will and wonder what she said about me. She would have made certain I could not contest the will, not that I had any intention of wasting my time or money. I didn't care about what was in the will or getting her possessions. I cared that she never loved me, that is all.

Sometimes I think I'd like to get a copy of the will, but I know better. There is no reason for me to read what she had said about me. Why open that wound? Most of the time, when I am now HERE, I do not consciously even think of her anymore. To read that will would be masochistic and I am grateful that I never got a copy of it. And it will remain a secret to me, what was in it. Her words. Her slap from the grave. Copa, I think you will get over grieving your mother. I mean, you have no choice. Don't let her destroy you forever. Please don't.

I know it seems here like I think about my FOO all the time, but I don't. Most of the time they are absent and I am happy. My trigger was when I found that Thing 2 was spying on me in this forum and I felt the need to suddenly purge all of them from my system once and for all. And so I'm here, doing it in writing, which is my go-to coping mechanism and way of expressing myself. And I will do it until I have said it all to you two because even my therapists never heard it all. One just doesn't have enough time in a therapist's office to talk about these things. Plus I have day-to-day issues to discuss more often than now. So you two are hearing my heart, like nobody else ever has, not even my beloved friends from Illinois. I did not KNOW my heart back then. I do now.

Copa, don't let them win.

I refuse to let them destroy me. Let them say I lie. Let them laugh. I won't know. I will never know. I don't care.

Living well is the best revenge :)

Hugs to you. Wishing I could give you a REAL hug.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
The memories are emotionless shells of themselves when they were vibrantly toxic.
They are.

but the wonder of the entire truth boggles my mind, from "I couldn't hold you. You, the infant, didn't want me to" to the chocolate milk in a bottle until age five, to the crazy way of living...no boundaries, no rules, no respect for anyone or anything, for the screaming of my parents, the baiting of my mother, her eternal phone call tot her own mother who she often tormented and I know because my grandmother would call me almost in tears, to my uncle who called me "the brat" and was allowed to and on and on and on. My FOO was like a horror movie.

I have always called them the loonybin.

Perhaps I was the only one who saw how bad it really was, even while the others were suffering with their own emotional problems, eating disorders, cutting maybe? (I have no evidence of this, just a feeling), lack of ability to get intimate with others (this is true of both of the others)...they can not see that this is all due to our caregiver, and that was our mother. Our father was not there. That may have figured in a bit too, but my mother didn't drive, never went anywhere, never had any friends, she was the domineering influence almost like a single parent. Sure, it was hard for her. Raising kids is hard. Many do it alone without being abusive. And lazy. Soooooooooooo lazy.

Meanwhile my grandmother was playing sick games with my mother. I would run to grandma's house. She would not tell my mother I was there. Once I was gone for five days. I was sure she told her, but she calims she did not know. Do I believe it? It seems far-fetched. Wouldn't she have called the cops if a minor child had run away and she didn't know where she was? She either didn't care enough to try to find me or she lied to me.

This was my crazy life.

I am amazed, often so shocked, when I look around at my peaceful surroundings and my contented grown child who is home this summer and think it's a miracle that I did not repeat it, that my life has been so good since I married my husband and entered heavy-duty therapy. And it is good.

I healed better than the others. I believe it's because they remained engaged and never confronted or admitted who caused their problems.


Don't blame me for her.

F you, FOO :).

I am the one with the happy family. In a few days, my husband and I will have been married twenty years. There are so many good memories. Our kids agree...they had a good life.

Living well is the best revenge.
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
YES!!!!

I finally solved the mystery of my labeling myself borderline, while my therapists looked puzzled and said "no." It is in the book about Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And I quote:

"I have worked with several clients who were unfairly labeled borderline by THEMSELVES (as in I did it) or others. I could however tell that they were not (as in my therapists said I was not). This was evidenced by their essential kindness and goodwill to others which they always return to when the flashback resolves. They also exhibit t his in their ability to feel and show true remorse when they hurt another, as we are all destined to do from time to time. Unlike the true borderline who has a narcissistic core, they sincerely apologize and make amends when appropriate.

(And I tend to apologize to everyone when I have nothing to apologize for or often have no idea what I'm apologizing for. And I do have tremendous remorse when I do something I know is wrong...I beat myself up over it, in fact...and have a ton of empathy. Maybe too much.)

Sorry, guys. This was HUGE in my healing. I did not understand why I had diagnosed myself with borderline and insisted on it. Trauma symptoms do seem like borderline traits sometimes, however, yeah, I have always been far too compassionate and other-centered to have made sense as a borderline.

I am working on this CPSTD with my new therapist. My old therapist, who I still see, had also mentioned trauma symptoms.

Thank you for reading this, if you did. It made my night, explained so much, and validated me in so many ways. I am on that road to healing completely, but never could have been going in that direction without the help of this thread. I am grateful. Very.

I suggest you two also read up on complex post traumatic stress disorder. You may see yourselves and there are ways to help this problem.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
You will heal and you will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again. You will not be the same. Nor would you want to be.
Why do I fear I will never be whole again? What does whole mean to me? Do I fear it? Is that why I resist it?

Still I do not know if the bed for me is a respite or a punishment, or both.

So I just looked up the meaning in the dictionary of bed, whole and life, as whole life in bed.

These 3 words seem to capture the essence of things.

Whole means all of, entire. And synonyms in this sense are uncut and complete. (Echoes of the castration complex here...I fear.) In another sense it means unbroken, in an undamaged state.

We are getting personal here. So it looks like we are getting somewhere.

And going on, definition wise, whole is a thing that is complete in itself as in, all of something, "the effects will last for the whole of its life" they tell us.

This, I know already.

Whole can give too the sense of novelty, too, of something. Or distinctness, and they show us how, "as the man who's given a whole new meaning to the term "cowboy."

Life is the capacity for growth, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

And a bed is not just a piece of furniture for sleep or rest. It can be a cradle or a crib. Or an incubator maybe? I spent my first 3 months in one of those, when babies born as tiny as I was did not live.

But a bed can be to an area of ground, typically in a garden, where flowers and plants are nurtured and grown. A place of generation and regeneration, I hope.

And to bed down can be to sleep or rest for the night, typically improvised. "He bedded down on newspapers" they tell me.

They do not mention homeless shelter here. Or on concrete in a tunnel near my house. Or where ever he may be now.

I always knew that my son had limitations. Our life together was defined by first one and then another. There was never a time there was not one thing or another.

What changed is he could no longer love me the same. Duh. He grew up.

My love for him no longer worked to make him happy. That was the change. And when my love did not make him happy, just like SWOT writes about with her own mother, on some level I must have felt accused of being a bad mother, a bad and ineffective person.

Because when I met my son, I woke up. I came alive.

But still I had my profession. And all of the defenses I had built in a lifetime to convince myself I was not that defenseless little girl.

And then it got worse with my son.

Because he seemed to be turning a little bit into my father (actually I had first in error written my mother--what does that mean that I could not bear what felt to be rejection and accusation as bad, because he could not love me as he once had), and I could not bear him going down and being unable to save him, like my father.

And then it felt just like my life was going down the toilet. That I was being flushed. And that nothing mattered. Nothing at all, if I could not save my son. But I am getting ahead of myself, here.

Yes, Swot. I do agree with you about my son. I believe it was a miracle that he thrived with me. And I believe that when he did I felt whole as if I had been redeemed. I had redeemed all that had been broken. And because it worked, I worked, I mean functioned as a mother, I became whole as long as it worked. It was like a magic spell.

But then it didn't work any more. My son grew up and could no longer depend upon a mother to function. And it would not have been correct to forever bask in my love or for me to allow it.

And for a while, I was still okay. I had my work. I had an identity that I had constructed as a functioning achieving person. And then later, I had M.

But then what had changed was that I left that functioning identity that I had built. To take care of my mother, to help her live and then to help her die.

And then I no longer seemed to work anymore. At first it seemed like what was supposed to be happening when a mother died. And then I realized that it was as if goblins and spirits and ghosts and ghouls were all climbing out of where they hide and that the person I had been no longer existed. I was being eaten alive and I could not stop it.

Until that became my life. My real life. In bed. Being eaten alive by ghouls. And I kept getting up to try to return to my real life. And I would function for a few weeks or even a few months. Only to fall back. Again to bed.


There is not going to be a celebration for me; there is not going to be a conclusion. Nothing is going to resolve. It is what it is...There is no redemption, here.
So what would mean for me? I keep getting up and think I am through this. And I am for awhile. And then I go back to bed. And it first, I am going to bed for a rest. Just to read a book. Or get on the computer. And then, again it has become my life. I begin defining myself again by being in bed.

Now, I have always liked laying down. On the sofa. In bed. Coming home. Lying down. Reading the paper. Watching TV. Reading a book. I like being reclined. It was never a big deal. I could always get up. I always did things. I had goals. I reached them. I had responsibilities. I met them. Now I don't. Or if I do, it is only barely.

Could it be that you hate the way she reflects who you are to you, but you feel hypnotized into looking, into believing,
Yes, I believe this is the case. Or a version of it. As long as I keep checking the value of her house, I keep myself captive to her system of value. A system of value which I have explicitly rejected my whole life.

She always had more than me of everything that did not matter. She knows that and so do I. Much of what she has she has stolen.

She is false. Except for her pain and her lack. And her anger and cruelty. And those she either blames me for or uses against me.

During the years before my mother's death--many, many years, I cared little.

Zillow is the last link to the past except for my mother's cremated remains which are in the closet.

My Mother had expressly requested in her will that her cremated remains be put in the garbage. Imagine that. But that was my Mother. Really, essentially her. So for the longest time she was in a beautiful antique bronze urn on our chest of drawers until my son came and we hid her in the closet.

People suggest that I go back to work. That this, will change me. And I believe them. But I don't want to. I don't want to drive where I am afraid. I don't want to be anxious. I don't want to be afraid at work. Because at my work people are mean. And I don't want people to be mean to me anymore.

There is not going to be a celebration for me; there is not going to be a conclusion. Nothing is going to resolve. It is what it is...There is no redemption, here.
So what would mean for me? I keep getting up and think I am through this. And I am for awhile. And then I go back to bed. And it first, I am going to bed for a rest. Just to read a book. Or get on the computer. And then, again it has become my life. I begin defining myself again by being in bed.

Now, I have always liked laying down. On the sofa. In bed. Coming home. Lying down. Reading the paper. Watching TV. Reading a book. I like being reclined.
It was never a big deal. I could always get up. I always did things. I had goals. I reached them. I had responsibilities. I met them. Now I don't. Or if I do, it is only barely.

Could it be that you hate the way she reflects who you are to you, but you feel hypnotized into looking, into believing,
Yes, I believe this is the case. Or a version of it. As long as I keep checking the value of her house, I keep myself captive to her system of value. A system of value which I have explicitly rejected my whole life.

She always had more than me of everything that did not matter. She knows that and so do I. Much of what she has she has stolen.

She is false. Except for her pain and her lack. And her anger and cruelty. And those she either blames me for or uses against me.

During the years before my mother's death--many, many years, I cared little. This is the last link to the past except for my mother's cremated remains which are in the closet.

She had expressly requested in her will that her cremated remains be put in the garbage. Imagine that. But that was my Mother. Really, essentially her.

I think I can see it as this: I sought to make myself whole as a person through love of my son. And it worked as long as he mirrored back what I needed. And when he didn't it still worked as long as I had the supports of my identity that I had made in part to escape from my life as a child. And when I had to return to and re-enter that life I had run from to care for my mother, I left behind the supports on which I relied. And after my mother died, I was alone. I was that tiny child without a mother and without those other supports I had built to give me strength.

And then my son more and more enacted parts of both of my parents. Rejecting and cruel. And unwilling or unable to live conventionally had lived my father. And this I could not bear.

It was not that I had been unable to tolerate my son emancipating. The deadly change occurred after my mother died.

While my son was away from me, living a few hours away with family friends, or in residential treatment, I had still been OK. More or less OK.

What changed was when he left a protected space and began wandering around. And the worst was when he came here. And I had no defenses.

What had been too much was when all of it came together. That is what I could not withstand. Where I had been with my mother, and what I had to do to go there. And then, her death. And still I think I would have been okay.

But what I could not bear on top of everything was not the vulnerability of my son. But that I could not fix it. There was no where to go. Nothing to do. To fix it.

And what that meant is that I could not fix myself. The broken pieces. The hurt. I was broken and vulnerable and I could not fix myself. Because my loving him no longer worked. All of the love in the world did not work.

And that was what broke m. I had been left by my mother and son, with the ugly truth of my love that all of the love in the world could not put Humpty Dumpty together again.

All the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again.

The French King enters.

Is it because I am not the broken one? Is it because I was always whole, but I could not fix them? And because I felt that I could not be whole if I didn't fix my parents. Or my son? Maybe.

People suggest that I go back to work. That this, will change me. And I believe them. But I don't want to. I don't want to drive where I am afraid. I don't want to be anxious. I don't want to be afraid at work. Because at my work people are mean. And I don't want people to be mean to me anymore.

I never belonged where I worked so long. I did so many things that I was never meant to do.

So this is putting things in a new light.

Maybe I can redefine everything. Maybe I can start all over again. Maybe I don't need to be Humpty Dumpty. I was never meant to be and don''t want to be. Maybe I can pick and choose.

Maybe I can redefine the bed. Make a salon. Write a memoir laying down in bed. Maybe I can allow myself a week a month in bed. Or 3 days a week. Just because I want to.

Just completely turn everything upside down. Forget the judgment. And start over.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa...do you see a pattern here?

I do.

You seem to need to be trying to make somebody else better in order to be happy. But the only person who can truly make you happy is yourself...

More hugs.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I feel like that little girl who was ashamed that her mother didn't like her, let alone love her.

Think how utterly alone you must have felt as a little girl. My heart aches for you ~ and for me, and for Copa, too. Those are the places where the damage was done. That is the place where we should feel our mothers' love and pride and the gentle certainty that we are the best baby, ever. There should be joy, there in the heart of us, but there is shame.

Now that we can see it, we can change it.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
You're right.

I had to smile when you wrote "a mother's love and pride."

I guarantee you that she NEVER expressed any pride in me. I think I offended her by being an unhappy child. It made her feel like an inadequate parent, which she was.

But...

Blame the infant (I didn't pick you up because you stiffened in my arms)

Blame the child (You think the world revolves around you. You never think of anyone but yourself.) Honestly, to this day I don't k now where she got this. The only way I can even begin to see her point of view her is that I didn't put HER first because SHE was always the center of her world. At least she seemed so to me. She was not generous with her time, her effort in parenting, her willingness to try to be an understanding helper or her emotions. She also called me "bad" and "lazy" and a host of other things, along with mocking me and humiliating me (sigh)

We know it. We are changing it. I have never seen it more clearly than now that I am finally studying childhood trauma. Not holding me while feeding me...that alone can cause failture to thrive and attachment disorder. Both are trauma based.

I checked my baby book again. I did not weigh 19 lbs. at one year. I weighted 17 lbs. MINDBOGGLING!

If you don't cuddle your baby enough, the baby doesn't thrive. That has been scientifically proven.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Except when I have nightmares about her and she is middle age again (the last time I saw her she was middle age) and I am just a kid. I am never a woman in those nightmares. I always wake up in a sweat.

Could you share a nightmare here, SWOT? When I do that, the pieces fall into place, one at a time. Remember the dream about hair, and the memories it called about WalMart and whore and self?

Peace and lots of love to both of you. And thank you both so much for listening. Outside of a therapist, nobody listened before. And they're paid to listen...lol. XXX

Oh, yes. I love it that we don't have a therapist. I would be too afraid to free associate, if we had a therapist.

"We already got one." "Oh yes, it's very nice." (That's the Frenchman, responding to everyone who thinks we need to do what they tell us.)

Why do I fear I will never be whole again? What does whole mean to me? Do I fear it? Is that why I resist it?

What does whole look like, Copa?

We are getting personal here. So it looks like we are getting somewhere.

Ha! I love this.

:O)

Now, I have always liked laying down. On the sofa. In bed. Coming home. Lying down. Reading the paper. Watching TV. Reading a book. I like being reclined. It was never a big deal. I could always get up. I always did things. I had goals. I reached them. I had responsibilities. I met them. Now I don't. Or if I do, it is only barely.

Copa, are you volunteering?

I am a Hospice volunteer. No commitment; pure joy, to serve in that way.

Baklava grand volunteers in animal shelters. No commitment; pure joy, to serve in that way.

And I would function for a few weeks or even a few months. Only to fall back. Again to bed.

Is the room where you sleep and rest and contemplate beautiful, Copa? Have you created a haven, or.... Are the sheets and the comforters and the pillows there to comfort, or....

Perhaps you and M might consider moving, or travel.

Change things up.

Never go back.

Yes, I believe this is the case. Or a version of it. As long as I keep checking the value of her house, I keep myself captive to her system of value. A system of value which I have explicitly rejected my whole life.

She always had more than me of everything that did not matter. She knows that and so do I. Much of what she has she has stolen

There was a string of years when my sister had little. Then, there was a string of years when she has had enough. When she has had enough, she overhears people saying things like, "Oh, that's so and so. She has more money than Jesus." When she has had enough, she does things like repeat her name continually to the shop person. And then, joke with her husband, who falls right into line, as this is an old joke between them, about how the shop keepers in the most expensive shops know her by her first name, and about how uncomfortable that makes the husband.

And they tell that story every time, in one version or another.

And it could be very funny, but it's not.

There is something here about the value of the sister's house and about the value system between myself and my sister, too.

Something not right, until we decide to see it.

She had expressly requested in her will that her cremated remains be put in the garbage. Imagine that. But that was my Mother. Really, essentially her.

Oh no, Copa!

What a horribly hurtful thing.

So this is putting things in a new light.

Maybe I can redefine everything. Maybe I can start all over again. Maybe I don't need to be Humpty Dumpty. I was never meant to be and don''t want to be. Maybe I can pick and choose.

Maybe I can redefine the bed. Make a salon. Write a memoir laying down in bed. Maybe I can allow myself a week a month in bed. Or 3 days a week. Just because I want to.

Just completely turn everything upside down. Forget the judgment. And start over.

What do you think?

Yay!

I think you can, and that you have already begun. I don't recall your having defined your situation to yourself before. I love it that you looked up meanings of words that meant something to you. That is an excellent tool!

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
ould you share a nightmare here, SWOT? When I do that, the pieces fall into place, one at a time. Remember the dream about hair, and the memories it called about WalMart and whore and self?
Cedar, except for the fact that her black dyed hair was wild and uncombed, as always, and she wore those darned pedal pushers and her fat ankles stuck out (we all have fat ankles even though we are thin) I never remember the details of the dreams. I just wake up shaking and sweating. The only thing I know is that I am a child in any dreams with her. Often other FOO members are there, but almost never Thing 1 and 2. Uncle, grandma, yes.
 
Top