Hurt and frustrated

[JayPee]

So as many of you know I'm working on not enabling my 30 & 26 yr. olds. I've stopped the gas ups as of a month ago with lots of back lash in particular from older son. Verbal and physical threats from older son. I still pay for student loans, storage unit, gym membership fee and cell phone but hand outs for cash & gas and food, no longer.

It just hurts me that today he sent an e-mail as follows:

"For real though you better not f*&%)*#@ open your mouth or ever come near me again. And I can't afford to pay for my phone bill in time before I get paid. So I know you are a shallow piece of human feces but please pay for it his next month. Not that I can count on You for anything you giant herpe. Kill yourself ignorant woman."

Who says "please" in a sentence like that? I had planned on paying his cell phone minutes because I just renew them on line. I know he just started working and as many of the other mothers do (from what I've read) paying the cell phone allows me some level of comfort. I also, felt like he has more connection with work schedules etc.

However, I'm feeling like I just got punched in the stomach or heart. I will have to think long and hard about this because I feel like I'll be rewarding him with phone minutes and still allowing him to speak to me this way.

Also, I tried last night to text younger son. Just to explain to him that I don't want to be estranged from him but he does nothing to better his situation and I cannot/will no longer give out money. I explained in every conversation it's just too difficult for me because he does not accept No for an answer.

It didn't go well. Basically he says me and his father have abandoned him. He is 26 and I could have replied with the usual that he's not a baby or 18 yrs. old. etc. where one would consider that abandonment. But instead I just blocked him again. I was trying to set some boundaries so I could still keep in touch with him but it didn't work.

 

[BusynMember1]

Honestly i was a master enabler. Big time. But NEVER has Kay gone THAT far with her words.

I grew up poor and made something out of myself with my also once poor husband. I am strong and confident except for Kay. But had she EVER sent me those words, both of us would have been done THAT DAY. Kay never penned words THAT extreme so we continued to feel some pity for her and "helped" her too much.

Had Kay gone so far as to call us sh&# or hoped we died she would have been completely blocked. We would have felt outrage instead of any pity. Done. in my opinion you need to be done. My opinion means nothing. This is your battle to fight, not mine. You choose how to respond or to not respond.

All I can share is MY reaction to his text and continuing behavior. And that is that my husband and I actually do have boundaries on how badly we can be abused and Kay was aware. Your son has no respect or love in his heart in my opinion. That is awful. Gave me chills reading it.

If your son were Kay, she would be on her own completely. I hurt for you. And am outraged. Just as I was for Josh's mother when he spewed similar horrid texts that go too far and expressed hate after all that loving woman did for him!

I am learning that Kay is terribly hard, but that it could have actually been even worse.

in my opinion your own self esteem and self respect is way too low. It would greatly help to remember that nobody has a right to abuse you, especially at that level. No matter how much we love our children they have no right to say those things yet get anything from us. What if you had received such a text from a SO? Would he still be around?

No matter how much we love somebody this is verbal domestic abuse and in my opinion we need to rise above it. Allowing it makes our kids feel it is okay. We only put up with such evil, not out of love for them but out of lack of caring for ourselves and the misguided thinking that we must "take care" of a child, any age,I any temperament, or WE are bad people. I hope that you learn that you are worth more than this. I would hug you if I could.

My advice is only what I would do. Please remember you will not be judged here. by the way I would not grovel to younger son either. Groveling demeans our very souls. Neither son can give you a healthy relationship right now. Kay can't eother and I won't settle for everything on her warped terms.

Put yourself first today maybe. You know who your sons are. Take care of YOU.

 

[JayPee]

Busy,

Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I just feel like crying it hurts so bad.

I will pray and think on all of this. I appreciate your words of experience and perspective from someone on the outside. As I think I've said before, I've sadly become "numb" to this verbal abuse. I was verbally abused throughout my marriage as well as with both sons at home. It's gone on so long I'm not sure when it began. I suppose it was as progressive as the alcoholism. Sons saw ex do it and learned well. Instead of stepping up to be good men they have repeated the bad behavior.

 

[BusynMember1]

It is not your fault. Maybe see a therapist. You should not be numb to that level of abuse. Nobody should. You would be so much stronger if you realized how precious you are and to learn to be a soldier against any abuse.

We are only treated the way we allow. I stood in your shoes too. Kay was too smart to tell us to die or to call us feces but she hurt us and will mot let us see our grandson and in this we are powerless.

One thing I want to have, retain and keep and that is my self respect. Kay has made it hard, but she couldn't take it in the end. I wish she were different but today Kay is Kay.

God bless.

 

[Albatross]

It just hurts me that today he sent an e-mail as follows:

"For real though you better not f*&%)*#@ open your mouth or ever come near me again. And I can't afford to pay for my phone bill in time before I get paid. So I know you are a shallow piece of human feces but please pay for it his next month. Not that I can count on You for anything you giant herpe. Kill yourself ignorant woman."

OMG!

Sadly, Son has said some similar things to me and his father when we won't give him what he wants. It startles me every time I read about someone's OWN CHILD saying such things. And the "please" in the middle is just so bizarre. At least he has manners, right?

It's common for our difficult ones to react in anger when we stop funding the money train. In that sense, your son is unfortunately not unusual...and with your son having that model in his experience, maybe that's his go-to course of action.

What to do? My first reaction is to send him a snarky text asking him to choose between shallow piece of human feces or giant herpe because obviously you can't be both. Then cut off EVERY. SINGLE. THING. you are presently funding without any further notice.

But even though he's being an absolute @$$ right now, he did start a new job and you don't want to sabotage that.

I guess I'd communicate as much to him...that you purchased the minutes IN SPITE OF his outrageous words to you because he might need it for his job. Phones to me are a different animal because they are for our peace of mind more than anything else. I would cut off the other things, like the gym membership and the storage unit.

 

[Beta]

JayPee, I'm so sorry. As you know from reading some of my son's texts, I know very well how hurt and rejected this can make us feel. It is nothing short of evil that someone would speak to their parent that way. It's very clear that God expects us to honor our parents, whether they are good parents or bad parents, and I think there are consequences when we do not. I grew up with an alcoholic mother and stepfather and experienced neglect and abuse, but I would never have thought to speak to them that way. Our sons grew up with love, and yet they think nothing of doing that.

My son could have written the text from your older son. As has been told to me, in the end, we have to do what we can live with at the time we're dealing with it, but I think I agree with Albatross above. I would continue the cell phone, just because it may offer YOU some peace of mind, but I would consider not funding some of the other things possibly.

As far as your younger son, a 26YO is not a child, and you are not obligated to provide for him (and I know, I have to tell myself this all the time because I tend to think of Josh almost as if he were still 18YO or younger). I'm glad you blocked him.
I pray that the God of comfort and peace will pour out both on you right now.

 

[JayPee]

Albatross

I appreciate what you’ve said. I’ll keep all of it in mind. It’s good to hear in a sad kind of way that this is typical of one who’s getting cut off.

Since turning 18 this has really been his behavior. Very entitled and when he doesn’t get what he wants - look out.

I feel like I’m at a turning point with him though. I’ve allowed this verbal abuse/bullying to go on way beyond its years.

Believe it or not I have been in therapy 2 years. But in my defense I have two sons like this and left a marriage of 30 years from an alcoholic. So I think in all fairness to me I should get 3 years to get better right? Lol

 

[JayPee]

Beta

Thanks for your encouraging words. This is a tough milestone so to speak, for me.

I feel like if I were disrespectful and verbally abusive would I expect God to reward my behavior? Certainly not. So that’s where I’m struggling with this.

I have to ask myself when is enough?

 

[Nandina]

It is not too late to tell your son(s) that you will no longer allow this verbal nastiness to continue, and that if it does continue, you will stop paying for everything. (except maybe the loan, if it’s in your name). And then stick to your guns. Another thing I would do if my entitled adult son demanded I pay for something would be to tell him I will loan him the money to pay for his cell phone until he gets his first paycheck, at which time he will reimburse me, but that from now on, he has a paying job, and can pay his own cell phone bill. (And gym membership et al!)

Of course, this is all easier said than done. But please do not allow this ungrateful child to take away your dignity with his verbal venom! You deserve so much better. I agree with Busy. Counseling could be very helpful. Sending hugs your way. Bless you.

 

[Nandina]

I see that you are in therapy and that is good news. I’m curious...what does your therapist suggest for dealing with that verbal abuse from your sons?

 

[JayPee]

Nandina,

She cannot believe his anger and would prefer I block him in every aspect but he gets through my work e-mails. She said she's had many come through her doors who were children of alcoholics but has never seen such anger.

Since the verbal abuse seems to be rearing its ugly head more often I am going to make this a focal point of discussion to get more advice on what other avenues I could take to recover from allowing such behavior.

 

[Beta]

In the kinds of situations we all are dealing with, we need God's wisdom and perspective. I tend to "lean on my own understanding" a lot, and that gets me nowhere.
I think exploring this topic with your therapist is a good idea. I think this type of behavior is not only bad for us as its object but also very bad for our children. Bad behavior repeated over and over becomes more ingrained and harder to change.

 

[BusynMember1]

One thing that also helped me in a very sad way is when a very dear friend of mine saw a nasty Kay text. I rarely shared texts, but we were out for lunch and she could tell my eyes were teary and that I couldn't eat. I had put down my fork. She had an idea of how Kay hurt me, but nothing prepared her for the text. This is not exact wording as it was several years ago

Text: Hey, My First Name, I thought you were going to pay for our car to be fixed. Do you think we can not have our car forever and still get to the grocery store to buy food? by the way thought you were going to get us food too. You DO have a grandson! He needs to eat. And you wonder why I'm afraid to let you babysit for him. I'm calling the car place today and if you haven't paid the bill yet I promise you will be very sorry. But then you never cared about me because I'm not really your daughter, My Real Name. Why the effword did you adopt me? I hate all of you Smiths (made up name) and you either pay for that car today or you will never see Jaden again! Understand?"

Horrible, right? There were more cusswords in here than I put down.

This was the conversation my friend had with me after reading the text. She spoke gently and held my hand. This conversation is not verbatim.

Her: So what are you going to do? Still pay her bill?

Me: Yes! No! I don't know! I feel so sorry for her. We must have made her feel as if she doesn't belong or she would never text us this way. I feel so guilty that Kay thinks she is an outsider! How did it happen?

Her: I saw you with her when she was a child and teenager and all of you adored her. Did you forget?

Me: (dabbing eyes with tissue) I thought we were loving toward her, but maybe this is just how I want to remember it. Maybe we DID act as if she were an outsider!

Her: No. I remember. Don't let her gaslight you. You treated her with nothing but love and even excused her whenever she misbehaved. (Pause) Would she feel badly that this text upset you, if she knew? If you told her?

Me; i have told her how her texts upset me because I love her so much. She doesnt seem moved by my feelings. Heck, she would probably tell me that I deserved it. The worst part of all of this is that Kay never expresses kind, caring emotions towards any of us. She is never sincerely sorry if she hurts us and will only SAY she is sorry if she believes that she can get something for apologizing. Like money.

Her: What do you think she would do if you were very ill? Realize how much she loves you?

Me: (right away without thinking) No! She would want to read my will!

The friend's sadness on her face was touching and I realized that I meant my words. That they were likely eerily true.

The radical acceptance of my daughter today is no different. On this day, we are only what we will give her materially. We are not her family who loves her. She doesn't care about our feelings or else really can not feel empathy.

Maybe one day she will change or find God. Right now her intention is to punish us by not letting us see Jaden because we won't give to her. She is dead inside, I believe. For this I do pray for her and pity her, but only she can change that deadness.

Her bad will toward us matters to us and helps us remember not to rescue her or to never again put her welfare above our other loved ones. They all must matter equally, including Kay. But due to her neediness, her welfare used to matter more than anyone else's to us. Now we all matter the same. I hope this makes sense and that we are not judged.

It took me about two years of Al Anon and therapy to be able to let go without the guilt. The nastiness from her stacked up and kept reminding us of who she is.

It is very hard, but detaching can be done.

Some people chose to have whatever relationship they are allowed with a disturbed child. Some do not or the child won't allow one. There is no right or wrong way to handle this. We know what is right for us when we do what we do without the essence of our soul being ripped apart and when we no longer constantly question if we are doing things right. We will just have a knowing that things are as they should be.

I am not there yet, but am so much better and strive for this goal.

All we can do is our best

To Nandino: My therapist told me not to listen to any abuse; to disconnect texts or calls and if with her to leave the house, then take a break from Kay by blocking her. I am sure all therapists are different. Welcome to our forum.

 

[Copabanana]

Dear JP. I am just seeing this. Sorry I did not respond sooner.

I explained in every conversation it's just too difficult for me

No. Is a complete sentence. You don't need to justify or explain yourself to them.

There is no way I would recommend to you that you continue any communication, let alone subsidize older son, with this kind of abuse. This is close to what Beta's son did.

How much of this do we have to see, experience, hear to decide, no more. I urge you to STOP paying for anything. To stop any and all contact.

There is a concept in psychology called "intermittent reinforcement" in behavior modification. When behavior is reinforced intermittently this is the hardest of all behavior to extinguish. What that means is that when you pay sometimes, in an unpredictable manner, your son is always looking for this to reoccur. He never gets the idea that it will stop. He is always looking for the next time. It is like a gambler with a jackpot.

Stop paying at all! Block him. He is poison to you. He is treating you like you are the worst garbage. You are not!!! You deserve to be treated as the treasure and the blessing that you are. NO MORE!

 

[AppleCori]

Beta is right—we don’t do our children any favors by allowing them to treat us badly without consequence.

My step-son told his dad that the best thing he very did for him was kicking him out and not putting up with his abuse (finally).

We can’t allow our kids to think that they can treat people badly and that only their feelings matter.

 

[JayPee]

First off, Busy, I'm going to copy and paste and add your story to my "emergency journal". The stuff Kay said to you is exactly, exactly, exactly the way OS speaks to me! I never shared texts or e-mails with anyone else because they are so horrible. I have shared the fact that horrible e-mails/texts have been sent but don't usually say specifically what was said because I was too ashamed and knew people would say, Why are you still speaking with him? I can't thank you enough for putting it in such "plain English" for me. I feel that you have made such a huge impact on my understanding right now.

Copa...Here's what I think (besides the fact that I think you are a psychiatrist and if you aren't, you should be!). You bring such clarity and vision it sometimes boggles my mind how you have such wisdom. You are truly a gift to this forum. Thank you for your strong words of encouragement!

 

[WiseChoices]

JayPee,
You mentioned prayer, so you have a faith in a Higher Power. How do you think your HP sees you? You are precious and loveable and so very loved. You are blanketed by God's love and approval. As bright as the sunshine is which is too bright for us to even look at is how brightly God's love for you is. You are the light of the world .

And do you think God wants you to be treated with such utter disrespect and disdain? No! It is time to adjust your crown and step into your life as the beloved child of God that you are.

There is only one response here which is to stop all payments on everything right now. Cancel it all .I agree with Copa and Busy. There is no world in which you can accept such behavior towards you. I would not dignify that email with any verbal response. My response would be in my action to cancel all my financial support . And then I would think about what fun thing I can do for myself with all that money I am now saving.

Focus on you. Put all your energy into your own well being. Tend to yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

I know you are hurting deeply. Feel those feelings. Allow yourself to process them. You will not be able to fix those feelings by doing for your boys and their response to you - you can only allow yourself to move through them. Sending much love!

 

[BusynMember1]

While Copa is not here, I would like to say that I believe she IS at least a psychologist for real. Could be a psychiatrist. I think it was her who said she was.

Would you not go to her if she were in private practice in your state? I would! She has such incredible insight! Its nice to have her here. A blessing.

 

[JayPee]

Busy, I didn't know that but now it all makes sense. I would absolutely go to her if she were in my state!

 

[BusynMember1]

We should thank our lucky stars she is at least here. Say a prayer.