Life has turned again...
- Thread starter Confused
- Start date
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Hi Confused
I agree with Nandina.. Your son can't and shouldn't run either his own life (at 15) or yours, ever. His welfare cannot and should not be the only thing that matters. He is one person among others. They matter too. You matter too.
It sounds like the central problem is about your son, his unwillingness to accept rules and to accept authority, at all. An oversized sense of entitlement, and an oversized (for his age) sense of his control, in the family.
I can understand now why you are resisting so much his going with his Dad, where there will be no rules, no order and no consequences.
But the thing is, it's WORSE that your son be allowed to act out as he is doing right now.
There is a principle in some forms of psychology called "paradox." It came from martial arts. It's when a person's own strength is used against him or her. For example. If somebody is pushing very hard, or pulling very hard if the other person steps away or lets go their opponent will fall down. Their own pushing and pulling, when their opponent or target lets go, acts to control and defeat them.
In your son's case, what about letting go of the resistance to his going to his Dad's? I really don't think he will like it there, and that very shortly he will be asking to come back Meanwhile you can think about what you need from him (behaviors, rules, etc.) as well as support (therapy, etc) to get better control in your own home. Or maybe you will decide he should not come back. I believe that he needs to be willing to start doing what it takes to change. And where he lives is not the primary problem.
I wish you the very best.
I agree with Nandina.. Your son can't and shouldn't run either his own life (at 15) or yours, ever. His welfare cannot and should not be the only thing that matters. He is one person among others. They matter too. You matter too.
It sounds like the central problem is about your son, his unwillingness to accept rules and to accept authority, at all. An oversized sense of entitlement, and an oversized (for his age) sense of his control, in the family.
I can understand now why you are resisting so much his going with his Dad, where there will be no rules, no order and no consequences.
But the thing is, it's WORSE that your son be allowed to act out as he is doing right now.
There is a principle in some forms of psychology called "paradox." It came from martial arts. It's when a person's own strength is used against him or her. For example. If somebody is pushing very hard, or pulling very hard if the other person steps away or lets go their opponent will fall down. Their own pushing and pulling, when their opponent or target lets go, acts to control and defeat them.
In your son's case, what about letting go of the resistance to his going to his Dad's? I really don't think he will like it there, and that very shortly he will be asking to come back Meanwhile you can think about what you need from him (behaviors, rules, etc.) as well as support (therapy, etc) to get better control in your own home. Or maybe you will decide he should not come back. I believe that he needs to be willing to start doing what it takes to change. And where he lives is not the primary problem.
I wish you the very best.
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I understand and agree with you all. But I know how he will be at his dads. I know him and his dad. How can I easily throw my hands up and say "ok go".....
I feel/know he wont do some of the stuff he does here, but in other ways he will get worse. It would be a miracle if he didn't. He wont get tired of it there.
I feel/know he wont do some of the stuff he does here, but in other ways he will get worse. It would be a miracle if he didn't. He wont get tired of it there.
Moving in with his dad is inevitable...if not now, later. At least if he gets in trouble there now, he is a minor and will probably get in the court system...where he will have to follow rules.
I love what Copa said... He will fall on his own...based on his behaviors and actions. Not on how much support you try to give.
The thing is...if my DGD had gotten into trouble at 14 (which she didn't because I protected her) instead of 17.., maybe she would have learned her lessons sooner. Ksm
I love what Copa said... He will fall on his own...based on his behaviors and actions. Not on how much support you try to give.
The thing is...if my DGD had gotten into trouble at 14 (which she didn't because I protected her) instead of 17.., maybe she would have learned her lessons sooner. Ksm
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
You see the writing on the wall, you accept it, and you choose to let him go.
You have written it yourself, more than once, that your son will keep pushing until he gets what he wants. He will win.
He is getting worse now. What you are saying is that it is a mixed bag either way. In some ways at your home, he's worse. In some ways at his Dad's, he will be worse.
I am wondering if there are other factors involved here. Like your feelings about your ex. Lingering conflict or bad feelings (which would be normal, given his problems.) Or whether you are trying to control a situation where you really don't have any control (which means you are in the exact same boat as all of the rest of us here.)
The keywords here are: Accepting reality. Letting go. Both of these are in you, not your son, and not the situation.
All of us here know how hard this is.
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
At a certain age I think kids have a say in court about which parent they live with. And some kids just start running away. Maybe to give yourself a break, you can give him to his Dad more often. I don't know who son is with now (friends?) but it doesn't sound ideal...with these kids, what IS?
We have to take care of ourselves too. My daughter whined so much about her birthmorher that she had never met, and was so unkind to us, that, given a chance, we would have eventually given in and let her live with her birthmom. It seems to be a driving need within Kay to know her and be HER child. As much as it hurts us, we are not enough for her and she used to abuse us when she lived with us and after. It hurt the entire family.
So if she could have found the mother who gave birth to her, which seems to be the most important thing to her about parents, we would have done it at least for a while. We can't locate the woman...she is from a very poor country.
In the end, if Kay ever locates her, she will find a way to leave this country and go to her birthmorher anyway. One day your son probably would have started running away to Dad. I don't know if we can stop it. If they don't want to live with us they let us know and we don't deserve to be abused for loving them. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like to save ourselves and let them sate their curiousity. Even if we hate it.
Divorce is hard. Adoption is hard. Kids are hard. Maybe for them we are hard. What a mess.
Sending love.
We have to take care of ourselves too. My daughter whined so much about her birthmorher that she had never met, and was so unkind to us, that, given a chance, we would have eventually given in and let her live with her birthmom. It seems to be a driving need within Kay to know her and be HER child. As much as it hurts us, we are not enough for her and she used to abuse us when she lived with us and after. It hurt the entire family.
So if she could have found the mother who gave birth to her, which seems to be the most important thing to her about parents, we would have done it at least for a while. We can't locate the woman...she is from a very poor country.
In the end, if Kay ever locates her, she will find a way to leave this country and go to her birthmorher anyway. One day your son probably would have started running away to Dad. I don't know if we can stop it. If they don't want to live with us they let us know and we don't deserve to be abused for loving them. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like to save ourselves and let them sate their curiousity. Even if we hate it.
Divorce is hard. Adoption is hard. Kids are hard. Maybe for them we are hard. What a mess.
Sending love.
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I stepped back many many years ago and forgave my ex for our relationship issues. This has nothing to do with him and I, it's about the kids and him. Not about us. His other older kids dont want him around either by THEIR choice as well. I encouraged him to visit, to call, write text etc. I talked good about him to them. I said we arent perfect,who is? But hey, hes good at this and that! Hey, you wanna make or buy something for him? So NOT anything to do with past, I'm not perfect but how is me worrying about his severe alcoholism, certain people around that shouldn't be that I'm not getting into have to do with our past? I'm grateful we've moved on, greatful it's over with him, happy for him.
The drinking I wont have a say anymore once he lives with him and it scares me so bad. So I get to give in and watch in pain this situation.
All of you say just let him go.
Did all of you send your kids to the other parent and your greatest fear come true? One person told me she was glad her mom didnt give in her dad was like my kids dad and she wouldnt be where she is today!(not from here)
The drinking I wont have a say anymore once he lives with him and it scares me so bad. So I get to give in and watch in pain this situation.
All of you say just let him go.
Did all of you send your kids to the other parent and your greatest fear come true? One person told me she was glad her mom didnt give in her dad was like my kids dad and she wouldnt be where she is today!(not from here)
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Look. You wrote in one of your posts (or at least I think you did--I apologize if I am wrong), that you believe your son will push and push and push until he can go. I think the people here are trying to protect you, not undermine you.
I think that a case can be made for both ways. Denying your son, or letting him go. Totally I understand that your son is better off with you. The thing is this: You present a picture of a willful young man who will try to mow you down unless he has his own way.
From everything you've written your ex does not seem like a responsible person. He is very likely to just sent your son back, no matter what your son wants.
Am I understanding correctly?
Pros:
You do have legal custody.
You are clearly the better, more responsible, consistent, and caring parent.
Cons:
Your son has been violent, living with you.
Your son wants to go and you believe he will keep pushing you until you let him go.
Your ex is willing to take him, for now. (Who knows how long.)
They did live together at least for some time so that your son does have some idea of what the situation is with his father.
Your son does have existing problems. Even living with you.
You also say in an earlier post something like this: that your ex gets what he wants, runs your life, is carefree. This sounds here, and I am not judging like you have some resentment of your ex. Who wouldn't? But the thing is this--I can't see one thing that this man, your ex-husband, is winning at. I don't see one way where he has power over you or your life.
As I see it your ex has no power here. You do. Everybody here cares about you, is thinking about your welfare. Your son is hellbent to do what he wants. You don't have to let him.
It sounds like you hold all of the cards. Your ex seems half-hearted at best. Likely in a week or two, he will send your son back. Even though your son would want to stay, do you really think your ex will want the responsibility?
I think that a case can be made for both ways. Denying your son, or letting him go. Totally I understand that your son is better off with you. The thing is this: You present a picture of a willful young man who will try to mow you down unless he has his own way.
From everything you've written your ex does not seem like a responsible person. He is very likely to just sent your son back, no matter what your son wants.
Am I understanding correctly?
Pros:
You do have legal custody.
You are clearly the better, more responsible, consistent, and caring parent.
Cons:
Your son has been violent, living with you.
Your son wants to go and you believe he will keep pushing you until you let him go.
Your ex is willing to take him, for now. (Who knows how long.)
They did live together at least for some time so that your son does have some idea of what the situation is with his father.
Your son does have existing problems. Even living with you.
You also say in an earlier post something like this: that your ex gets what he wants, runs your life, is carefree. This sounds here, and I am not judging like you have some resentment of your ex. Who wouldn't? But the thing is this--I can't see one thing that this man, your ex-husband, is winning at. I don't see one way where he has power over you or your life.
As I see it your ex has no power here. You do. Everybody here cares about you, is thinking about your welfare. Your son is hellbent to do what he wants. You don't have to let him.
It sounds like you hold all of the cards. Your ex seems half-hearted at best. Likely in a week or two, he will send your son back. Even though your son would want to stay, do you really think your ex will want the responsibility?
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Thank you everyone. It's just this is all new to me where hes actually going to live with him. No, it wouldnt be a couple weeks, or months, it will be permanent. With the situation being the way it is at his dads, it's like sending a Theme Park Enthusiast to live at various parks. Itll never get old or too much for either. I dont have a great example here, but, I know.
So, I'm trying to coordinate everything for him to go quickly.
I just feel hurt, confused, frustrated,
worried for him, etc.
I got used to my ex controlling me, (I'm not getting into it ) as my family being that way in the past. Yes, it's never forgotten but I didnt want to live with all that in my heart. I have brought it up just compare and say what went on and be like how was or is this fair etc.
I'm too old to be holding grudges for that long. When my ex and get along it's great.
So after he goes I have to figure out how to move on from the pain of him being there. The fear and worrying of him we I'll never stop no matter where he lives or how old he is, as is the same for my daughter.
Isnt that how a parent is supposed to be?
So, I'm trying to coordinate everything for him to go quickly.
I just feel hurt, confused, frustrated,
worried for him, etc.
I got used to my ex controlling me, (I'm not getting into it ) as my family being that way in the past. Yes, it's never forgotten but I didnt want to live with all that in my heart. I have brought it up just compare and say what went on and be like how was or is this fair etc.
I'm too old to be holding grudges for that long. When my ex and get along it's great.
So after he goes I have to figure out how to move on from the pain of him being there. The fear and worrying of him we I'll never stop no matter where he lives or how old he is, as is the same for my daughter.
Isnt that how a parent is supposed to be?
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Dear Confused
I deal with the same thing. But I don't believe anymore that my worrying and suffering help my son. Certainly, they don't help me. I am working on basing how I feel on my own life, rather than my son's. When I fall back into him, more and more I recognize that I have a choice and I can return to me.
I think you've come a very long way in a very short time. Please keep posting.
Hes going for sure, everything is set. I feel like he will hate me even more for actually sending him. Even if he really wants to it will hurt him. But when hes awake hes non stop yelling at me, with a few exceptions.
I feel this isnt real, but it is because it hurts so bad. I know the night he goes, and I dont know how long after, I don't know how I'm going to handle this. Watching him walk away is going to tear me apart.
I feel this isnt real, but it is because it hurts so bad. I know the night he goes, and I dont know how long after, I don't know how I'm going to handle this. Watching him walk away is going to tear me apart.
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
Please don't tell yourself you lost him. Our kids all grow up and leave. We still see them unless they are difficult and cut us off...that is not the norm. Your son is only a few years from 18....then he can do what he wants anyway. With whom he wants.
Ask yourself if you would want to live with your son if he were not your son. Yes, it's different....then again is it? I'm no longer sure. Domestic abuse by child is devestating to us. More hurtful than by a spouse or anyone else.
You have a chance to heal now and start focusing on YOU....and those loved ones who are kind to you. So many times the troubled child takes all the air out of the room . And we give no time to ourselves and other lived ones. I didn't realize how much this was true until Kay left. Literally she was in my head 24/7. I started Nar Anon and therapy a few years before and it helped so much. I saw everything differently. Not that it was ever easy. It just grew more bearable. And my relationship with my husband, my two other kids, grands, and dear friends improved...I did a lot of apologizing, which in Nar Anon is called making amends.
I hope you reach out for real life help during this difficult times. You are not alone. Lots of kids of divorce who lived with Mom want to live with Dad as they become teens. Boys especially. But girls too. It's actually normal. They don't see our ex like we do. I think it's best to let them form that relationship. Their conclusions about ex...we can't control that. So maybe give it to God, if God is in your life.
I send prayers, hugs and love. Think of this as a time for you to get to know yourself again and don't hesitate to try therapy
Ask yourself if you would want to live with your son if he were not your son. Yes, it's different....then again is it? I'm no longer sure. Domestic abuse by child is devestating to us. More hurtful than by a spouse or anyone else.
You have a chance to heal now and start focusing on YOU....and those loved ones who are kind to you. So many times the troubled child takes all the air out of the room . And we give no time to ourselves and other lived ones. I didn't realize how much this was true until Kay left. Literally she was in my head 24/7. I started Nar Anon and therapy a few years before and it helped so much. I saw everything differently. Not that it was ever easy. It just grew more bearable. And my relationship with my husband, my two other kids, grands, and dear friends improved...I did a lot of apologizing, which in Nar Anon is called making amends.
I hope you reach out for real life help during this difficult times. You are not alone. Lots of kids of divorce who lived with Mom want to live with Dad as they become teens. Boys especially. But girls too. It's actually normal. They don't see our ex like we do. I think it's best to let them form that relationship. Their conclusions about ex...we can't control that. So maybe give it to God, if God is in your life.
I send prayers, hugs and love. Think of this as a time for you to get to know yourself again and don't hesitate to try therapy
Hi Confused, I know this is a really hard situation to live through and I feel for you so much.
I think you’ve gotten some pretty good advice from the members here who have years of experience dealing with hard-to-manage youth. Sadly, they aren’t perfect solutions, we all realize.
I agree with Busy about your son being 18 before long and he can do what he wants. I have some personal experience with my own son who at a very immature just-turned 18 year old, still in school, decided he was ready to live on his own, so he left. It’s been a rough road for him but like a lot of kids, that is how he chooses to learn things—always the hard way. But he refused to follow the rules of our home, wanted to do drugs, lied, stole, and we can’t live with that, so I had no choice but to let him go. (What *could* I do? He was an “adult,” he knew it, and held it over my head even before he turned 18).
When a teenager starts spiraling out of control, it‘s hard to rein them back in. They are trying to exert their independence and will seek negative and/or illegal influences to boost their need to feel grown up. Actual growth and maturity, especially in boys, often doesn’t happen until the mid to late twenties.
If I were you, I would make it very clear to both my ex and my son, that if there is any drinking or drugging by your son or other illegal and irresponsible behavior, you will get the authorities involved, ie., the juvenile court system or Child Protective Services. Again, not the perfect solution but a tool to have in your arsenal, so to speak. And then, follow through if it happens.
None of us know how things will turn out for your son at this point. It could be a long road. But the best thing you can do for yourself is learn how to deal with the current situation without letting it completely overcome you. There are many members here, wise folks, who let their kids overcome them for too many years—years they wish they could get back. So I hope you’ll try, as hard as it may be, to do things for yourself. Don’t let your son’s bad behavior consume you.
We all have our moments, I sure do, with tears and sadness thinking about our wayward kids. But let it pass, and move on to focus on you. This group is amazingly supportive. I didn’t have them when my son left but now I do, and it makes it so much easier to bear.
Take care and keep posting. Big hug.
I think you’ve gotten some pretty good advice from the members here who have years of experience dealing with hard-to-manage youth. Sadly, they aren’t perfect solutions, we all realize.
I agree with Busy about your son being 18 before long and he can do what he wants. I have some personal experience with my own son who at a very immature just-turned 18 year old, still in school, decided he was ready to live on his own, so he left. It’s been a rough road for him but like a lot of kids, that is how he chooses to learn things—always the hard way. But he refused to follow the rules of our home, wanted to do drugs, lied, stole, and we can’t live with that, so I had no choice but to let him go. (What *could* I do? He was an “adult,” he knew it, and held it over my head even before he turned 18).
When a teenager starts spiraling out of control, it‘s hard to rein them back in. They are trying to exert their independence and will seek negative and/or illegal influences to boost their need to feel grown up. Actual growth and maturity, especially in boys, often doesn’t happen until the mid to late twenties.
If I were you, I would make it very clear to both my ex and my son, that if there is any drinking or drugging by your son or other illegal and irresponsible behavior, you will get the authorities involved, ie., the juvenile court system or Child Protective Services. Again, not the perfect solution but a tool to have in your arsenal, so to speak. And then, follow through if it happens.
None of us know how things will turn out for your son at this point. It could be a long road. But the best thing you can do for yourself is learn how to deal with the current situation without letting it completely overcome you. There are many members here, wise folks, who let their kids overcome them for too many years—years they wish they could get back. So I hope you’ll try, as hard as it may be, to do things for yourself. Don’t let your son’s bad behavior consume you.
We all have our moments, I sure do, with tears and sadness thinking about our wayward kids. But let it pass, and move on to focus on you. This group is amazingly supportive. I didn’t have them when my son left but now I do, and it makes it so much easier to bear.
Take care and keep posting. Big hug.
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Thanks everyone. Still feel likes hes just trying to see if I go through with it, than he will say I didnt want him because I let him go.(I still know he wants his dads to see how everything is and break from me for a bit or permanently).
He will be several states away so I cant just check on him and his dad drinks all the time and I know will allow it or won't be home to catch it even if he cares and changed for his views on kids drinking.
Yes itll be hard at any age when the kids move. But the reasons like this and to where hes going(I doubt just a visit) makesnit harder
He will be several states away so I cant just check on him and his dad drinks all the time and I know will allow it or won't be home to catch it even if he cares and changed for his views on kids drinking.
Yes itll be hard at any age when the kids move. But the reasons like this and to where hes going(I doubt just a visit) makesnit harder
Confused, what will happen when school starts? Will your ex register your son for school and he’ll attend school there? I did not realize he didn’t live near you. And that could present problems if your ex lacks the responsibility to see that your son stays in school.
So you’ll need to be in touch with the situation from afar, difficult though it may be. Do you think your son will call or keep in touch with you? I would try to work that out if you can just to keep the line of communication open, and, in the event your son is put into a situation that even he is uncomfortable with, he might be able to confide in you.
So you’ll need to be in touch with the situation from afar, difficult though it may be. Do you think your son will call or keep in touch with you? I would try to work that out if you can just to keep the line of communication open, and, in the event your son is put into a situation that even he is uncomfortable with, he might be able to confide in you.
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My ex is firm on him going to school. A good quality I like about him and yes, I have even told my ex and kids that. I do praise him where praise is do.
As far as my son on keeping in touch with me, he wont. I wont force him that will make a bad situation worse. But I reminded him" his dad has the info and I'll leave it in his suitcase. I still love him and please be safe and do school no matter. "
Theres not much more at this point I can do. Things all around has gotten worse, not just with my son. So one day I'll fill you in.
As far as my son on keeping in touch with me, he wont. I wont force him that will make a bad situation worse. But I reminded him" his dad has the info and I'll leave it in his suitcase. I still love him and please be safe and do school no matter. "
Theres not much more at this point I can do. Things all around has gotten worse, not just with my son. So one day I'll fill you in.
