My son is in the hospital.

[Copabanana]

Oh, Darkwing! What a letdown about the cruise! I mean, not a tragedy, but still.

I was only on ferries, never on the open, open sea--so who knows? Maybe I get sick too. Hope not.

This is going to sound confusing, but my son does not seem to me to have an anger problem. He has an emotion problem and a frustration problem,and in extreme cases, an impulse control problem--which seem to culminate in his taking it out on doors, refrigerators, and now a wall. He is not one to yell.

But as I write this I realize I am not being entirely truthful. He did unintentionally break my foot 10 years ago. And he did defensively give M a black eye. In neither case did he assault us. He viewed each case as "defensive." Except nobody was hurting him.

In any event, I agree with you. I think now that people are your age, and his--mother's and aunts can no longer minimize this stuff--there has to be accountability.

But I am still very sad and lonely. Thank you, Darkwing.

 

[savior no more]

my focus is on other mother's difficult child sons--the irony does not escape me--very mentally ill felons. Young and old. Anybody reading this know this: I am loving up your son.

I feel exactly as you do when I get patient's in the hospital that are sick from their diseases caused by addiction and I am talking to the mother's. I appreciate what you do as my son will soon be in that position. I hope this time your son's seeking help will "take". I've often read we don't know which time it is. I have also seen people sent to 12 step programs by the court and a light bulb goes off, so we don't really know nor can predict. Hugs and loving thoughts your way.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Oh, Darkwing! What a letdown about the cruise! I mean, not a tragedy, but still.

I was only on ferries, never on the open, open sea--so who knows? Maybe I get sick too. Hope not.

This is going to sound confusing, but my son does not seem to me to have an anger problem. He has an emotion problem and a frustration problem,and in extreme cases, an impulse control problem--which seem to culminate in his taking it out on doors, refrigerators, and now a wall. He is not one to yell.

But as I write this I realize I am not being entirely truthful. He did unintentionally break my foot 10 years ago. And he did defensively give M a black eye. In neither case did he assault us. He viewed each case as "defensive." Except nobody was hurting him.

In any event, I agree with you. I think now that people are your age, and his--mother's and aunts can no longer minimize this stuff--there has to be accountability.

But I am still very sad and lonely. Thank you, Darkwing.

Anger issues are a direct result of emotional issues. Rage is defined as outbursts of anger in response to some external cue, expressed with reactions too extreme for the cause. I don't think it is possible to have anger issues without strong emotional ones. Rage being a symptom of whatever it is. Like a borderline personality disorder. He's sounds like a human volcano. I don't think he would ever intentionally harm you, or anybody else for that matter. Often, it isn't intentional at all. The danger is still there. He should at least get a competent doctor to diagnose him. Then he can work on improving his extreme responses.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I feel exactly as you do when I get patient's in the hospital that are sick from their diseases caused by addiction and I am talking to the mother's. I appreciate what you do as my son will soon be in that position. I hope this time your son's seeking help will "take". I've often read we don't know which time it is. I have also seen people sent to 12 step programs by the court and a light bulb goes off, so we don't really know nor can predict. Hugs and loving thoughts your way.

Agree. I was vehemently opposed to the 12 step programs. Partly due to me being an atheist, but mostly due to the fact that I wasn't ready to do the work. Eventually, my life became so much worse than I could endure, and those feelings vanished. It suddenly no longer mattered to me. Getting us into the door is the most difficult step. We have hundreds of different "reasons" a program isn't "for us", but we are only trying to fool ourselves. We do not yet know the true meaning of humility. Once we do, we are able to humble ourselves to the point where saving face is no longer important. We tear down all the thick walls made of the excrement of a male Bos touros.

 

[New Leaf]

I am back to work and just catching up after a long day. I am sorry for your heartache Copa, so very sorry, and sending up prayers for your son as well as you and M. You are wonderful people and have given your all to your son. I hope that he seeks the help he needs.
I hope with all of my heart too, that you will find peace within.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Ironbutterfly]

Dear Copa- I am so sorry you are going through this with son. But keep the faith. Son perhaps hit rock bottom and sought help. My son went through similar stages. He too was in and out of hospitals, had anger and emotional issues It took years for him to finally give up the addictions, the people who were keeping him down with no hope of a better life, and then he moved to another state and a mentor, Pastor found him, took him under his wing. At age 36, he is now taking care of his appearance, very handsome, takes of his room, and is finally at peace and in a good place in his life. And finally, I have a sense of peace. For 16 years he did it his way, his bad choices. He eventually woke up and realized all the stress of his choices. I pray your son finds this same realization. Son told me the other day, Mom, I am so happy after so many years of torment. Oh be still my heart. Finally!!!

It may take years, but keep the faith. But in the mean time, I think a cruise sounds awesome. YOU and M need to redirect your focus on your remaining years of life. Son has set the path for which he is on. It's his book, he needs to write the remaining pages.

 

[Copabanana]

I hope that he seeks the help he needs.

Thank you, New Leaf. I think he called this morning, but I did not get to the phone in time.

I know this sounds nutty but I hope he is on his way back here. This is a learning curve for both of us. I do not want him to have to do it alone. But I do not want to be "done" by him.

It is so unfortunate for us that our children see us in varying degrees as their marks. It makes the cost to us of risking, so very high.

At age 36, he is now taking care of his appearance, very handsome, takes of his room, and is finally at peace and in a good place in his life.

Son told me the other day, Mom, I am so happy after so many years of torment. Oh be still my heart. Finally!!!

IB. Thank you so much for sharing this. Especially since my son and yours share some of the same challenges and gifts--their good lucks, for one. (I meant to type good looks, not lucks. And when I just typed this--I made the same Freudian slip, typing lucks.

So maybe there is something in me that thinks there may be a win. I hope so.

Your son sounds kind-hearted. So is mine. Why is it that these kind young men turn against themselves? I am so happy for you. I hope so much my son finds peace, like has yours.

 

[Albatross]

I hope your son finds peace too, Copa. I am sorry you are going through the not knowing. I hope he is able to reach you soon and let you know how he is.

 

[Childofmine]

I see this totally differently, Copa

Hi Copa, I'm just catching up here and I see this as a hard thing (mainly for you) and a potentially good thing (for him and for you).

Change isn't a singular event, but a process. That is why it is good to acknowledge that, despite some of the negatives about this recent bout with him, good was clearly done, too. Now he just needs to make the positive parts outnumber the negative ones.
But even that is progress. He didn't destroy his life overnight, and nobody can expect him to fix it over night.

I love all that he wrote here. I think we (like our DCs) have a tendency to see things as bad or good, all or nothing, black or white. We have the same thinking they do.

He has made progress. Don't ever forget that. We here have identified that progress in your continuing updates.

You have made progress. You are in no way a failure as a mother or person or daughter. You have done all you could do for everybody. You have done the best you could do at every turn. That is all anybody can ever do. Let yourself off the hook, Copa. Live your life, fully, the good and the bad. You deserve all good things.

I pray your son is at a positive turning point for him. He may be ready to have a continuing path of progress, with a few missteps, or not. Nobody knows the answer to that. Even he doesn't.

I am praying and hoping and sending good thoughts that he can put a string of good choices together...and like Darkwing said...start that pathway of good change for himself. He will have missteps, but that doesn't mean all is lost. It just means he had a misstep...just like I do...all the time.

Hang in there. You have done the right thing here setting a boundary. And look...he sought help. See that. See what he did after what you did. That is progress.

 

[Copabanana]

I posted this yesterday on Albatross' thread and forgot to put it here--here is a condensed version (I try.)

My son apparently left the regional psychiatric hospital and got into a treatment facility (so far two.)

My son went first to a facility in Bel Air CA, and then felt it was wrong because there were psychotic people there! And so he advocated for himself and got transferred to another place which he felt was unsuitable because there are drug addicts!

I heard this through the grapevine. He has not called me.

Having smoked up all of his SSI money for July when I told him to leave, with a week left until he got his next check he has managed to take a tour of one regional medical center psychiatric hospital and two residential treatment centers in Bel Air CA paid for by my insurance waiting for his next SSI Check to arrive. That is my fear. The money is now in his hands. He feels powerful.

My fear is that he will leave this latest facility declaring that there is no place suitable for him. That he tried, so it is not his problem. It is mine.

But I know what to do. I will turn him away. I will not negotiate because one week does not change make. I do not know what my terms if he approaches me about returning.

But I have to begin thinking about a bottom line. Here are thoughts.

--A solid 2 to 3 months at least in residential treatment. At least.
--Stable, with a plan to live independently.
--As before, he works full-time.
--No drugs what so ever. Drug testing before he returns here or anyplace I control, and thereafter randomly.
--A discharge plan on how he will continue treatment that addresses his body dysmorphia, liver disease, rage attacks (hitting wall/refrigerator), isolation, drug use, depression--and its implementation.
--A signed contract of the terms.

Do I have a right to insist he be on medication? It would not be enforceable by me. Nor can I successfully monitor his compliance. So I think that psychiatric medications I cannot insist upon.

So, in the situation I find myself in (with him), no news is good news.

Thank you everybody.

 

[GoingNorth]

Copa, from what you've written about your son's illness and behaviors, I don't think a contract would be legally binding as it could easily be found that he's not competent to sign a contract.

You can insist on all sorts of things as conditions of living in your home, of course, but you cannot legally bind him to those conditions.

All you can do is throw him out if he breaks the "contract", and I would advise, calling the police if he becomes violent.

 

[Copabanana]

My son called. He is in yet another psychiatric hospital on a 5150 hold. He went to the Los Angeles area to enter the facility. There was confusion and he could not find the proper place, although he was in phone contact with the staff. They (and he say) he entered the wrong facility by accident. Instead of helping him get to the proper facility, this other facility 5150'd him (involuntary hold for danger to self) and would not let the correct facility have him. My son asserts it is for insurance money, and I am inclined to agree with him.

When my son called me, he was despondent and desperate, saying if he was not released tomorrow, (the end of the hold) he would leave the state, and I would never hear from him again. He said he was not thinking about suicide, or perhaps said that so as to not get himself in an even deeper pit. It was terrible.

I called the original residential treatment center (whom I hold partially responsible but did not say so) and was told no matter how much they advocated for my son to be permitted to leave, they would not agree. They said they would send people to transport my son to them, and even with this ironclad commitment, the other place would not agree.

In two two desperate phone calls I kept trying to tell him, calm down, it will only work against you. Part of this calamity derives from your actions or lack of them. Calm yourself. Do not play into their stereotypes by losing control and losing more control over your circumstances. Get a grip.

I called the place where my son is and spoke to an RN who said she would speak to the psychiatrist and social worker, to explain my son had treatment in place, a secure place, etc. and try to get him out soon. I requested the admissions director of the correct place to call this woman. And left it in their hands. Then called my son.

On the 3rd call to him, the first two desperate and despondent--he was happy. He had found a nice, interesting man (staff or patient, I am unsure) and was content!

I cannot believe this is happening. Honestly, I cannot live like this. I felt responsible. I kicked him out to make a boundary--that he required treatment. And he ends up going to the treatment facility, going to the wrong door, and getting put into a locked ward, on a 3 day hold. I understand I was not responsible for what followed, but I did start the dominoes falling. OK. He did when he busted the wall. M went over to the house, and more than one wall is busted. There are several holes. How many, I do not know.

My son is content and tranquil and I am a hysterical mess.

 

[Albatross]

OMG, what a harrowing ordeal! I am so sorry to hear that he and you have had to go through this. What a harrowing and frightening experience. Still, I am so glad he is ok, tranquil even, and safe and on his way to the treatment center he wants and needs. Please don't be hysterical, Copa, none of this is your fault. It is true that you set this in motion: you set in motion him getting the treatment that he wants and needs, not the rest of it. The rest is just stuff that happened along the way. And it is all straightened out now, Copa. I am so glad you heard from him and that he is ok. Hugs to you, Copa.

 

[Copabanana]

I only hope that my son has the capacity or gains it to see what the costs to him are of his way of living. Perhaps, just perhaps it will motivate him further to listen to us and to be motivated to an even greater extent to do what it takes to live harmoniously with us or around us. Because for the 5 or so months near us, going as far back as almost a year, there was nothing--no police, no hospital.

Things are marching along I guess as they needed to. I could not, I see that,have tolerated anymore his damaging property in frustration. He has got to rein this in, one way or another, do what it takes to get control.And I know I was enabling by allowing him to use his money to self-medicate with marijuana. He can spend his money as he chooses, but I control how much he pays to be in a space I control.

I am having a little bit of hope again. Or maybe a little less fear. And we decided upon an end date for work. The maximum I will work is Sept. 2nd. I am thrilled to finally allow myself an exit place. I am uncertain how I will do even 5 weeks more, but I will remember what I have committed to. 5 more weeks, max.

Thank you all.

 

[Lil]

Wow. Copa I just cant get over it. How awful trying to get this straightened out. I get worn out dealing with nothing at all where my kids concerned these days. It sounds like he'll be okay for a bit. Take heart. He's okay for now.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you Lil. I called him a bit ago. It seems like it worked, my calling around. What do they think that everything they do is invisible? It is not like I believe everything my son says. But the other facility I believe. I believe they did everything they could to free my son. Not because they are good or kind--but because it is business. Money in their pocket. He would have been supervised the whole time. He had a placement arranged, which he was trying to get to.

I believe them,that the other facility just stonewalled. What other reason could there be but money, when abra cadabra they decide to let him go--when his mother Dr. Nobody calls. He will leave tomorrow morning at 9. He is all worked up now about the other people there, who are held captive. I told him J it's like I tell you, it's about deciding to use your life for good, or not. There are people--most of us, actually, that need the support of other people.

 

[Copabanana]

You guys. I cannot believe our lives. What in the world would I do if I was all alone. How much worse this would have been. But no matter what kind of weird turn things take (and this was the strangest of weird turns) I know I can post. I know that I only have to come to the site and their is understanding and support. I cannot tell you how grateful I am. Thank you. Again.

 

[Copabanana]

I am home from work. It takes all of the restraint I have (not much) to not call to see if he transitioned OK to the new facility. I think I would have heard from the facility if he had balked and refused to go. And I think I would have heard from him if he was miserable or desperate.

My son is very sociable apart from his issues. I feel pretty certain he is interested in the people, places and things that he is finding there. I feel pretty certain that this placement (in Bel Air, no less) is a step up from all of the other treatment experiences he has had (with the exception of the private therapy.)

I am cautiously hopeful. What does it cost me?

Thank you everybody.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I am home from work. It takes all of the restraint I have (not much) to not call to see if he transitioned OK to the new facility. I think I would have heard from the facility if he had balked and refused to go. And I think I would have heard from him if he was miserable or desperate.

My son is very sociable apart from his issues. I feel pretty certain he is interested in the people, places and things that he is finding there. I feel pretty certain that this placement (in Bel Air, no less) is a step up from all of the other treatment experiences he has had (with the exception of the private therapy.)

I am cautiously hopeful. What does it cost me?

Thank you everybody.

It only costs you whatever you put into it. This cautious optimism is about as good as it gets. You should always have hope, but you should never let your guard down entirely when dealing with people like your son, and I. Find a point where his success is excellent for you both, but where his failure does not destroy you completely. Probably easier said that done, but I think you're close to that.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

It's nice to see you doing somewhat better. You sound less.... Frantic.