Need help adult daughter wont talk to me.

dotty

New Member
Thanks Leah. I, too, am in agreement that I just can't forget her and get on with my life. There isn't a day that I don't think about things and miss her from my life. She's the first thing I think about before I go to sleep at night and the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning. Her boyfriend is a big part of the problem. She loves him. She lives with him and depends on him to pay for the roof over her head while she is still attending school. She has a 4.0 GPA! Says she is living there because she will not live with me and has nowhere else to go, which makes me so sad because she can always come home and would if it weren't for me. She hates me that much, but here's the clicker. Her boyfriend is making up fake texts and going to her and saying I sent them. I did not. She believes him and continues to hate me more and more. He is setting me up for things I didn't do because he knows that if she has any contact or relationship with me, she might go home, she might leave him, and he can't even fathom losing the control he has over her. So what can I do when I'm fighting that? He told me long ago that he was going to get a place of his own and she would be living with him and he promised me that I would NEVER EVER get her back. He even said she loves me and hates you and she will believe everything I tell her and nothing you say. Because I don't have the best relationship with my husband, he too believes her, so I have no support whatesoever. I have a restraining order...I have not texted him or contacted Bozo in any way, and for certain not anonymously. I value my freedom. He is insistent on keeping her hating me and he has done a wonderful job. I don't know how to turn the tide on that. I don't know how to make her believe I am not lying that he is. This is something she is just too blind to see. She is in serious trouble with a guy who goes through these lenghts to keep hold of her. It is not a healthy relationship, and I worry for my daughter with such a loser like this....yet there is nothing, absolutley nothing I can do about it. I pray every day. I go to thereapy every week. I'm on medications. Nothing has helped the pain.

The therapists feels as you do. No contact with her or keep it light if and when I do. She is not willing to have any part of me now, I know that, but I worry that things will never change as long as he's in control. He is setting me up to take the fall for things I have no part in doing and she doesn't believe me. How do I handle that?

Thanks for your words, your thoughts and your just reaching out to help. I appreciate the support here more than anyone knows because it is truly all that I have thse days <3
 

LeaC

New Member
Hi Dotty,

I am crying some right now because I miss my daughter. She has a wonderful boyfriend that is upstanding in every way. BUT, he is a type of person who is kind of reclusive, and want s to be alone with my daughter. Consequently, I think he finds things to object to that aren't of any real value. They want to be in their cocoon. At least I know she is healthy and safe. It hurts deeply to feel seperated from her. I started seeing a therapist last friday to help me with my anger and reactions. It is not easy. For what ever reason, my daughter seems to be in the drivers seat. I have to accept that or not have her at all.

Part of the reason I am telling you what I know about how our behavior can either cause us to lose or win is because I know your therapist will tell you this, and therapy takes a long time to settle into our minds. I am only trying to expidite it a little for you so it may be able to help now instead of later. It is much easier said than done. Frankly, I wonder about some mothers who can just say, ok, I'll just focus on me. That is the main reason I am writing to you. Sometimes people aren't as good at explaining things as they want to be. Clipped, quick blanket statements like "let go" are offensive to me. It's just to over simplified. Life is a process.

The medications aren't working because you are shaken to the core. Your primal bond with your daughter makes you inconsolable. Maybe the medications will help you sleep at least. Maybe when you think of her you can get a picture of her and visualize a heart encircling her. You need to love her. Whoever thought you would have to live on memories, right? You have to create another way of expressing your love for her. I think you are grieving now. I am not trying to reinforce your pain. I just know how it feels.

I have a lot of experience in dealing with various personality types form my job, and I study psychology and personality on a regular basis. I certainly am no expert, but I have gained a working knowledge of how some people tic. This young man (Bozo), is a narcissist. Every thing is about him. He probably has a variety of personality disorders to treat you the way he has. He is ultra-defensive, to the point where he has become vindictive toward you. I guess that's obvious. He is a character who is no stranger to street-wise revenge. This being the make up of his personality may well become his downfall. People like this usually wind up destroying their relationships eventually. The other factor here is that your daughter is what is called "enthrall" to him. A person in a state of enthrallment loses their judgement and surrenders their will to that of another. The spell may indeed break one day, but it may take time for that to happen. The reason to get composure and remain calm is not to scold you at all. It is a strategy that will take away the foundation of his targeting you and framing you. Unfortunately, once accused, and then having certain people buying into it, it sticks you with the burden of proving them wrong. Your daughter will associate all the past incidents between you and her, and you and Bozo to the clamis he makes, and this will just convince her that you are wrong. Even though they are wrong, it falls to you to prove them wrong. How awful that is, I know. He is very depraved to view things as he does. Your daughter sounds as if she has self-esteem issues. Unfortunately, from what I think about this guys personality, he probably will start devaluing your daughter. Valuation followed by devaluation is a pattern in relationships with people like this. I think when she starts asserting herself he is not going to be able to handle it. He needs to control. The sense of control he gives her now will probably wane once she matures some. We can only hope. You might keep a journal documenting all of his lies and fake texts, etc. I would. It may come in handy one day. You may be able, some day to say to your daughter, yes, I have reacted in such and such a way, but I did not do the following, and tell her what is fabricated by him.

Your husband may be denying you support from resentment he has inside. That's a shame. They seem to be reveling in the "us and them" mentality, with you being the "them".

If you want your daughter to come home, you would have to ask her precisely what it is that she would have changed in order to come home, and then do it. You'd have to stop criticizing Bozo. Not pressure her or critisize her. But the problem with all this is that she would have to be reasonable and do her part, too. She would have to be willing to try to get along. I'm not sure she can do that. I think you would have to come to an agreement that both parties respect. She's gotten the upper hand. At least that's how she sees it. She doesn't want to be "mothered" by you right now. I am just talking. I really don't have any solid advise. Since she is doing so well academically, maybe she will start to use her head and dump this guy. She is still growing at her age (I guess we all are). It can be surprising how people can wake up and realize the truth. Maybe send a gift telling her how proud of her, if that is allowed.

The only positive thing here might be this. I've heard it said many times by shrinks that a child pulling away and wanting to establish their own life is a sign that the parents did things right. Frankly, this is about the only thing that gives me comfort sometimes. But the thing is, I have been through some of these challenges, and by now know the things I have done that push her away. I now see that I was a very dynamic woman who was always in a hurry, as single parents are, and she got kind of squashed from it. Things worked out so she felt oppressed by me as she got older. I think she still does and may always. I have to live with how I raised her, and I admit frequently to her that I made mistakes and I apologize for it. That is what makes me willing to modify my behavior to keep her. I'm not sure that is fair to me, but I have to make that choice and I have. I have never had to deal with a boyfriend like your daughter has, though. Your husband's job, as a father, was to give your daughter an example of the type of man she would grow up to want. I think her future has a lot to do with that. I think he needs to see you doing things for yourself, too. It gets people curiousity and respect going when they wonder what you are up to. It might have to be faked at first, but if you want to chnage people's perceptions, you can do it with a little strategy. Now him I could let go of!

People are controlled by their perceptions. You are in more control of their perceptions than you realize. There are support groups that people go to in person. Have you ever checked into Meetup.com? They have just about every type of group you can think of. Here's another secret: instead of telling people how disappopinted you are in them, simply imply it. No longer emote to them. Simply say, I'm going to my support group, see you later! Bingo! You have allies in their eyes. Their perceptions of you will change right there. You might not even feel up to going at first, but I think things will shift in your favor if you do. Join another group type of activity. You automatically have something they can't touch. Viewing your independence has a great affect on people. And your friend all know your "not like that", so it's good for you.

One other thing I am trying to do is to say to myself that I cannot just "let go" of my daughter. But, maybe I can create an alternate, parallel world for myself and the two can exist side by side instead of being completely consumed by my anxiety. A duality, if you will. That way I don't feel as bad as I would. I am so down now that I hardly feel like functioning. Nothing hurts me like being distanced from my daughter. Nothing. But since suicide has been ruled out, I will force myself to put one foot in front of the other. I blew up at her and now I have to wait for her to come back. So, we are comiserating.

I cope with missing my daughter by having almost a shrine to her where I can look fondly at pictures and think of the good life we had. Photos keep her close to me.

I see that you can't communicate through him, but can you send a card to her? The order says no contact with him, but does that mean no contact with her? If you aren't sure, or need to clarify, I would call the local police precinct and speak with an officer. I have found that some police can be very helpful and even sympathetic. If you get a cold fish on the phone, call back. Or call another precinct until you get someone who will listen to you for a few minutes. Tell them you are desperate (calmly) to contact your daughter, do they have any suggestions that are legal. I would find it hard not to want to destroy him, personally. But the coward is hiding behind your daughter.

Well, I just had some time and thought I would write again. I resonate with your pain, and I realize that you are in shock over this. I have returned to doing something I used to do a lot, but stopped doing. I have been walking in the parks and being in nature almost everyday. It is my medicine. When I am there, everything seems ok, at least for a little while. Returning to this has been wonderful and painful, as in the past i was not alone. I am going it alone now, but it's not so bad. I am planning to join a church or another group soon. I love being social and it will help my pain, I think.

Bye for now, Dotty. Write whenever you want. I'll be checking the site.

Hugs!

Lea
 

ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
in my opinion the more you write, the less they will both respect you, the more desperate you will seem and the more they will giggle and pull together. I don't think continuously contacting somebody who says she wants nothing to do with you is helpful.
You can't diagnosis Bozo because you don't know him or how he and her daughter got to this point. I would let it go and see. I found that my son, who didn't want to see me, was archiving every letter I sent on his computer and the two of them (he and wife) were more antagonized by my attempts than anything else. It pushed them further away.
Let her come to you and go on with both of your lives. You have lives outside of your children. If you don't, you should. Your daughter is not being controlled 100% by Bozo. Your daughter is making a choice not to see you. Maybe he fueled some bad feelings she already had. Either way, it is best to move on. We can only control one person...and that person is us. We can choose to wallow in self-pity, beg, and grovel (while they laugh at us) or we can choose self-respect and to move on. That is more likely to get you the response that you want, even if it takes a few years. Grown kids respect adults who have their own lives, not adults who fall at their feet crying for forgiveness. You two many never get the result that you want, but at least you can have a full and happy life.


Huggles and keep in touch.
 

Lena

New Member
Dotty, I found your post today by chance, as I am at my wits end with my 23 year old daughter and am searching for help, any help I can get. Your post could have been written by me. I am heartbroken and don't know where to turn for help or how to make it through this situation. If you are still active, please respond and let me know if you have had any progress over the past year. I see a lot of good advice that was given to you, HARD advice to take and steps that I have been considering. Please, if you get this, let me know if you took this advice and if things have gotten any better. Thank you so much in advance
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I would find a card that expressed the way I felt about my daughter. I would sign it "I love you, honey.", and nothing more.

I would not address the situation.

We talk sometimes, here on the site, about how to see ourselves and our kids when things like this happen. For me, the conclusion is that, while I have no control over how they feel or what they think, I do love them.

I love them.

That is the true thing I know.

It is less what they give back than it is that I love them.

I am sorry for the pain of it. I think she will come home, that she will come back to you, once she has worked through it.

Cedar
 

Taffy

New Member
Dotty,

Hi and welcome to the board.

First thing I want you to understand about the board family is that we are just that. And like any family you are going to get varying degrees of advice because we all have walked in different shoes at one time or another, but with this section of the board? Most of us have had it UP.TO.PAST.HERE (makes hand wave over top of head standing on tip toe) with our childrens behaviors. Notice I said OUR children's behaviors. Not most of us have had it up to here with their FRIENDS behaviors -which I'm sure if we took a poll - it wouldn't even register because we mostly focus on OUR kids, THEIR problems, and how WE react orbetter still - do NOT react to them.

There is not really one simple solution, one cure-all for badly behaved kids. MOST of the disorders we're faced with each day are a cumulation of quite a few things. Some children come from homes where there are three siblings, two wonderful parents - both successful, both prominent members of the community - two of the three kids are just like the parents and then there's that black sheep kid that just does seemingly everything it can to prove to you aliens landed in your backyard and swapped babies at some point after it was born - and left you with a child you can't possibly parent; or parent anywhere near like you did the other two. That is frustrating for parents that already have success in their lives, in the lives of their other chilren and then have bad little joann. WHERE did we go wrong? What didn't we do with you that we did with the other two? Why are your sisters so successful and you love a looser pot head? There really isn't any rhyme in that logic. She is who she is. But admitting that is often harder for parents than it seems.

Then there are families that are quietly dysfunctional - The Mother and Father may have had problems, not been the best parents but tried their hardest - and eventually didn't realize that their arguing and problems trickled down to the child's cognitive level, and eventually they divorce, and figure now that their problems are over? So should the childs problems be over. Even harder yet - are the kids that come from broken homes, divorced families with violence, drug addiction, abuse - and sometimes the parents are hurting so badly themselves or are actually victims themselves of a cycle of abuse that they don't see what or how their lives are impacting their childrens future. Sometimes they do, get them into counseling and STILL - the child tears the house apart like an F4 tornado.

I also see kids that for years are quite, positive, good healthy kids and then high school hits and WHAM - you think your kid is on drugs, and booze -and guess what? Probably is. It's not unlikely to think that if your daughter is hanging out with a pot head that she may or may not be smoking pot or experimenting with drugs, but if she's under your roof? You're still her parent - and you CAN make some rules that stick - for your beneift.

Why do I say YOUR benefit? Well in a nutshell - YOUR life - is (guessing you're about 40ish) 1/2 over if you manage to live to 80 years old right? I mean think about it for a minute. Her life at 23 is just beginning and she's CHOOSING to live her life - HER WAY. Notice I didn't say THE EVIL ROTTEN HORRIBLE BOY FRIEND IS BENDING HER ARM TO LIVE HIS WRETCHED LIFESTYLE - because - there IS something wrong with your daughter to make her think, or choose that kind of a man. WHAT is it? Only she could figure that out - and the only way she's going to figure it out - is either to stand up today and say "MOther you are right, I believe every single word you say - my life is CRUD and I'm going to therapy to find out why I choose LOOSER guys, so I'll have a happy life for myself, and I do NOT think that what you are saying is trying to controll my life in one little way at 23 years of age -I love you Mom for caring, thanks.' or....she's going to get a hard knock in the head one day - wake up, and realize that EVERYTHING SHE COULD HAVE HAD? Is gone. Then maybe just maybe she'll have someone in her life to say "You really need to figure out WHY you keep going for LOOSER guys....there is a reason your self ESTEEM (not your self confidence) is so low that you think HE is wonderful." a man that disrespects your parents, a man that introduces you to drugs, a man that has no future, no provisions for you, no job, no life......no ambitions. BUT in all of this - my words to you Dottie - are SHE HAS TO REALIZE - NOT you (you get it) but the idea that shes going to turn to you at this point and thank you for your advice is nill. NADA zip - zero.....

So how do you or can you make this happen? Good question. ESPECIALLY since she's SO smart - and has already begun to play CONQUER and DIVIDE the parents. ie: DADDY I NEED, DADDY I WANT, DADDY MOM IS MEAN TO ME...DADDY BLAH BLAH BLAH. Yeah that's got to stop NOW. Daddy is your Husband and if he continues to help her, pay for her, get her, loan her.....he's only prolonging her misery and taking away her chances that your tough love program will work - because the way it works for us? BOTH parents have to make a UNITED front - and STICK TOGETHER on their decisions - and trust me - IT GETS WORSE before it gets better. WAY WORSE - so batten down the hatches....she's going to blow - trust me.

Next - after a united front - The TWO of you should get into some therapy for family - and talk about your daughters behaviors and HOW to better solve issues - instead of - crying all the time, crying to him, talking or complaining to him about it....complaining to family, friends, co-workers - Eventually if you're doing that or have DONE it? No one is going to want to talk to you, take your calls and will flat ignore you - so if you get this therapist to talk to and blow it out your nose once a week - and RESOLVE issues instead of just COMPLAIN about them? It begins a series of healing - and progress. Again - I say all the time - if HE won't go - then you go and learn all you can. You may even learn MORE about yourself than you wanted to - but it's worth it in the long run - I swear it - I'm proof. I went in to prove that my x was ALL the problem in the world and came out 15 years later with a brand new plan, much happier personally and more enlightened with tons of patience I never had.

The other steps you can take at this point - and I mean this from the heart - are TOUGHEN UP. Every time she sees you crying? She wins. She's not sitting somewhere feeling OH SO SORRY for Poor Mom....trust me. Not until she wants something THE NEXT TIME - will she bring up how badly she made you feel THE LAST TIME - and then she can really be a charmer can't she? Bet that horrible boy friend put her up to that! See where I'm going with this...HER personality isn't ALL his fault. And how YOU react to her or DON"T react to her is going to make a GREATER impact on her than crying. We cry because we feel hurt, we continue crying some times because maybe we'll be consoled or MAYBE we just feel so badly we need to get it out. Kids like ours? Can tune that out like turning off a radio. WHAT THEY CAN'T tune out - is......

Effective communication - Learn how to fight fair. Learn what to say - WHAT NOT TO SAY - SEE OUR DETACHMENT 101 in the PE ARchives - it's wonderful short answers help a lot.

NOT SUPPORT HER ANY MORE - as in - YOU ARE PAYING FOR WHAT????? OMG are you serious? Not any more - You'd better get a job and some Orbit gum for that filthy mouth. You're on your own - I'm taking the money I used to put towards your schooling and buying myself (something frivilous) and enjoying my life.

LIVE YOUR LIFE - emphasis on YOUR - NOT HERS........she's 23 - she's going to make mistakes - she is GOING to make them HER way - YOU need to learn how to LET her. And when I say that I do NOT mean - DO NOT be there to support her when she straightens up - BUT while she's being RUDE? and OBSCENE and disobeying? WHY IN THE BLUE HELL would you want to keep doing and doing and doing and doing for someone like that? If she were NOT your daughter......but a person on the street that you took in? And treated you the way she does? HOW LONG would you put up with it? THINK of her like that for now - until you get a little stronger to deal with this. Because technically? She is NOT your daughter - YOUR daughter would not treat you like this - and she's in there somewhere.

CUT HER OFF FINANCIALLY - and give her a move out date. YUP - write it down, put it on a contract - tape it to her door.........YOU'RE OUTTA HERE.

WRITE OUT THE HOUSE RULES - and give her a copy - She can have imput - but limited......and consequences - like - MOUTHS OFF - (is she on YOUR phone plan? Well not after that - GONE)

THEN lets see how she operates in her world with out all the accessories of MOTHER dearest. And if she goes to Daddy? He should now be on the same page of saying "YOu should NOT treat your MOther like that and until you begin to treat us nice sweetheart - there won't be any privleges for you. " AND NO SORRY- beacause neither of you should tell HER you're sorry - not for a long long time. Get out of that bad habit.

THIS is tough love - and if you have any chance of getting to her? Unless she's willing to sit down in family counseling and triangulate with a therapist? I see very limited ways of ever having a relationship with her.

You want her to behave, be nice, be civil? Get tough. Pretend like you don't care because right now? She knows you do. When you stop acting like you do? It's going to make her wonder. She'll try to push buttons but that won't bother you either - just like her - I mean it's working on you isn't it - she's cold as ice........and it's making you nuts. So give her an adult dose of her own medicine - but cut the purse strings and take the roof, the car insurance and anything else you pay for. YOU disrespect ME?????? This is what happens to you - and NOW you can get Captian marijuana to support you...and we'll see how long he likes supporting her in the fashion to which SHE IS accustomed. Trust it won't last very long .........he's living off you too - you just haven't figured it out.

That's my advice - harsh as it is.......and It is ONLY my thoughts - others will be along here to tell you other things and give you other great advice - and from all of it - you can read over and get a plan together - but for now? I really think a first step would be - therapy. A professional that can help you level the playing field with a very adept player. and give you insight.....is going to be invaluable in helping you. and your husband and thus - your daughter and in a couple years or sooner - maybe you'll have a relationship you can brag about.....once again.

Hugs to your hurting heart
Star
 

Taffy

New Member
Hello, Star I got a lot of information from your post on how to treat daughters that behave so cruel and me to us mother s that love them .but I am wondering where is the forum for 101 Pe archives? Thanks! I am so upset I cant hardly write!
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Taffy and welcome, so sorry for your need to be here. You have replied to a really old post. If you start one of your own you will probably get more response.
If you do a search you would be able to find older as well as current posts that may guide you. Folks here have pretty much “been there, done that” and it is comforting to hear from other parents who understand the path you are on.
Please know you are not alone.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
 

Taffy

New Member
WOW !!! Star what a POST !!!! It was STRAIGHT from the <3 heart! I haven't even begin talking about the many issues that My daughter and I have between US.And I MAY or may not! If I do it will be to get it off my chest and to allow each of you to get to know me . Star , what you have posted to Dotty is so grand! It also applied to me as well!
But the other day I got to thinking to myself My daughter name is Suzanne and My granddaughter's name is Azurea.Anyhow, I got to thinking that my daughter hates me for some reason and blames this and that or whatever on me !?? But yet she is living and doing the very thing that she says about me! And Yes I have helped her, bent over backward, broke my back and it nearly killed me. But what the problem is that she will not allow me to see my 5 yr old granddaughter after I helped raised her for the first 4 years of her life.It is not only affecting me but My Granddaughter Azurea as well! But does my daughter seem to care about that? ???? HELL NO SHE DOESNT !!
There is so much more to my story but I will tell that later and in order, as it came about.Otherwise, you all probably couldn't tell what the hell I was talking about! Again I got to thinking that my daughter intentions are to not let me see Azurea ever again. Because of her many excuses that she comes up with.And the fact she has deactivated her account on Social Media because her boyfriend doesn't get on it anymore since before they got together! Before she did deactivate it she did block me.Now she has blocked me from her phone.
So I can not call her and if I did she will not hear it or know that I have called.Also, I sent her text after text begging crying for her to talk to me to explain why she isn't talking to me. She has already told me that she doesn't like that I send her a novel and that she doesn't read most of them anyway! She has control over the whole thing .When she gets ready to call me or text me she then unblocks me and when she is through talking to me or hurting me then she blocks me back !! She has control over me seeing Azurea too .She is playing God & thats what I am hoping is that God will intervene very soon .As of right now I havent text her since Sunday night and I am not going to anymore either !
ALL OF THIS HURT ME SO VERY MUCH !! WHAT? SHE DOESNT CARE WHAT I GOT TO SAY !? SHE SURE DONT,

especially, the begging, pleading, crying. At first, I am hurt and I express that, then I get pissed when I express that !! She could care less about how I feel.Oh, shes so grown and knows everything! I am 61 yrs old and she is 25 yrs old .I had her when I was 36 yrs old ! Why do you hate me? What have I done to deserve this ? The more I do that the more she gets further away!
Dotty, I completely understand where you are coming from because I feel the same way !! I just want to keep trying to get across to her that what she is doing is wrong to me and that it hurts so much! I want her to be nice to me and love me like I love her! For us to visit and get along and do things together But she doesn't want to and I cant make her either!
NO MATTER HOW I TRY TO GET ACROSS TO HER ABOUT HOW PAINFUL THIS IS!
YOU didn't mention any grandchildren that you might have from her !?? But I do have one daughter and one granddaughter and that's all the family that I have left! But she is her own person and there's nothing we can do about that. You know why? Because she is wearing the big girl panties now and not you and she knows she has the power over you to control you! !! I MISS MY GRANDDAUGGHTER MORE THEN YOU WILL EVER KNOW AND MY GRANDDAUGHTER MISSES ME TOO I WAS HER NANA AND I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO IF WE DONT EVER GET BACK TOGETHER .But I do know that my granddaughter will hate her guts when she finds out the truth of what her mama did to her and me ! In which she knows a good bit now because she is a smart littel girl .
LOVE & PEACE TO YOU ALL !! KEEP PRAYING !!
We get it more than you realize - hence the advice , suggestions and LIFE experience of - WELL - here's what WE did. HERE are the mistakes (in short) of what WE did - and -after years of therapy (THAT WE SAT through) for ourselves - HERE is what WE can tell you works. (WORKS) WORKED....WILL WORK....COULD WORK MAY WORK.....SHOULLD BE TRIED..SHOULD NOT BE TRIED. (and help angel - if you called my line, and I was allowed or not allowed to talk? I'd talk. People are ultimately more important than RULE #3. I only tap my feet when men burn my chicken on the grill when I've said - NO NO _ 400 is too much heat)

THE APOLOGY that you want to give? (shrug) Don't you think you've done that? You've gone to her place of work - you've tried to contact her - SHE"S HEARD YOU. SHE'S HEARD you - SHE HAS HEARD YOU. SHe doesn't want it. No amount of you busting into her life - and begging her to hear you is going to make her UNDERSTAND your pain. Your sorrow - YOUR POINT OF VIEW - your reasoning - SHE DOESN"T SEE CHANGE IN YOU AT ALL-------NOT . ONE. LITTLE. BIT - CHASING AFTER HER DOTTY - ???? IS STILL IMPOSING YOUR WILL ON HER AGAIN, AND AGAIN and AGAIN - and YOUR OPINION AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN - and it's the same to her - THE EXACT SAME TO HER - as - I DON"T THINK YOU SHOULD DATE THAT BOZO ---------ONLY NOW - YOU ARE SAYING - OH GOSH I WAS WRONG - NOW I'm going to chase you down and FORCE YOU TO TAKE MY APOLOGY - YOU ARE FORCING HER - ONCE AGAIN - TO TAKE WHAT YOU WANT HER TO TAKE - and you DO. NOT . GET . IT.......and she's finally had ENOUGH!!!!! ENOUGH! ENOUGH! to the point where she's gotten so ANGRY with you - HER MOTHER ?????? That she's struck you! TAKE THE HINT.......LEAVE HER ALONE!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT on her side - I'm not on YOUR side. I'm an IMPARTIAL bystander looking at this - without mailice but WITH experience - WHO CHASED her kid - begging for forgiveness ------and had her son GET IN HER FACE and finally gave up - and in the mean time - The two volitaile sides went their own way. ME and Him. And in that time - I continued to WORK on my issues. I told you - I make NO bones about it - I state it here ALL. THE . TIME - I stayed in therapy for 15 years. I had a great childhood. But like every child - THINGS happen, and then I got married, and I had a life - and my marriage was horrible, and then I had a kid that was a difficult child, I had natural disasters happen, house fires, trauma, car accidents, lost jobs, ridiculously anal bosses, struggles with money, life - a divorce, then a fiance that is wonderful but 110% disabled, and I mean pft - like anyone else - my list goes on and on - SO DOES YOURS......why keep trying to say - NOPE nothing wrong with me - if I could just fix THIS (my daughter and me) my life would fall back into place. IT WILL NOT. IT WILL NOT - IT WILL NOT - YOU FIX YOU - and work on YOU....and ADMIT - (WELL IT"S ME) and the rest STARTS to fall into place - and you START to uncover, and undig, and unearth junk that you may not have remembered for years - IT IS THERE - in your mind - stored away - some of it just forgotten - but things change our lives. TO admit - NOTHING has affected your life and HYPER FOCUS on her? YOu're really cheating yourself - your husband - your other kids.....your friends, the rest of your family - but MOSTLY your quality of life.

DId she do wrong too? YOU BET SHE DID. SHE was raised better than this, and she went and got herself hooked up with a BOZO. You told her - and she ignored GOOD logical, advice - WELL -----doesn't that just stink? YUP. And didn't you TRY to make her see what a mistake she was making? SURE - you're her Mom and a good one. But your tactics were wrong, and your behaviors were wrong. All you did was try to get her to see what she was doing and messing up. Maybe chalk it up to really hurtful behaviors. Incorrect parenting - I have no idea what you did. But the minute that you keep trying to fix it over and over and over - YOU give HER the power and control over your life. And you may think -OH oKAY that's okay -----I want her to punish me - and make me feel like dirt - BUT you have to remember she's got someone else there with her pushing buttons WITH her who isn't exactly one of you ----and he's dangerous. SO YOU need to stop the cow-tow behavior ------STOP RUNNING towards them, and like MWM said - DO NOT cry in front of them - no matter what.

THE SECOND you let her see that this bothers you () much - HE WINS AGAIN....and quite frankly he's already gotten her - I've told you three times - IF YOU HAVE a chance of getting a relationship with her ever again - the way to do it - is to IMPROVE yourself - MAKE HER WONDER WHAT IN THE WORLD - is going on with Mom - HOW is Mom so strong, WHY isn't it bothering Mom that I'm not in the picture - WHY is Mom happy, without ME????? HOW can that be? BUT IT TAKES TIME - and actually TIME is all you have - because she is CERTAINLY NOT going to come running to you the way things are with you all crying, and begging and trying to get her back. SHe's not like that - NEVER WILL BE. THINK I'm being hard????? Keep running to her and begging for forgiveness - YOU'll SEE HARD, and TOUGH and hurtful. Because He'll be standing behind her handing her advice on how to give UGLY, PAINFUL, MISERY out in SPADES and when she does it to you? HE WILL REWARD HER.......TEN FOLD. AND YOU THINK today hurts? Keep doing what YOU ARE DOING and don't get the help I'm suggesting. I'm not a "tough old broad" I'm not a "Mean old witch" - I'm actually a caring and compassionate person - but I have zero tolerance for "let me ask you what to do" and then does the complete opposite...it's defeating, and counter productive and if you believe I'm wrong? and want to PROVE me and the others wrong (not you per se but anyone in this similar situation) then GO see a therapist.

The best way to feel better about anyone else - and how they treat you is to feel better about YOURSELF first - get to know what makes YOU tick...what makes YOU Happy.HOw to set short and long term goals for yourself, work on your SHORTCOMINGS (and I have several I work on daily) ...and then figure out what it is YOU Need to do to attain those goals. I maintain - If no one cared - we wouldn't give you advice from our hearts - because while you think we're being mean? It takes a lot of courage to tell you what WE did wrong, admit it - and tell you how we fixed it so YOU can benefit from MY mistakes.

It took my son THREE YEARS -------of very little conversation with me - living with his psychopath father, in parks, under bridges, eating out of dumpsters, ME hanging the phone up on him after stating - GOSH that sounds bad, I bet you'll figure it out - and getting off the phone and CRYING my eyes out but toughing up with every call - knowing these were HIS decisions and HIS consequences - and ALLOWING him to make them - that led to him REALIZING 1.) I was a good-=great Mom, 2.) HE messed his OWN life up, and 3.) HE FIXED his own messes.....4.) I was partially responsible for some of the mistakes - but people are human - and he was just as much to blame for the language and hate spewing.....and trust me - your daughter is 18 and doing this .....I've been getting this from age 5 - 17.......and EVERYTHING was my fault. EVERYTHING. Maybe even a little longer at times when he was really manic - like from BEFORE HE WAS BORN until 21.....so yeah - I may have an idea of what you are going through. And no - I didn't really want to hear what a BAD mother I was in thearpy ------Turns out - I was really a GOOD one. Never know what you'll find out. (shrug) You do have two other kids that are really good ones huh? And you DID come here looking for help - HUH? Just take it a step further ------no big deal......really, really.

Hugs & Love
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