Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you for asking, New Leaf. Will go to sleep now. Horrible evening. Trying to calm down a bit and regain my balance. Son is sleeping here and will leave before 8 am. I will post tomorrow. I am tired.
COPA
COPA
Now he is really gone.
- Thread starter Copabanana
- Start date
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I believe (with dread and fear) and so does M that my son is bulimic. Every single time he is here (and eats) it seems he vomits, soon after he eats. And then returns to eat more.
He did it last night. I said to him, "I find vomit when you are here. Are you bulimic?" He comes up with an excuse. He does not at all seem phased. I said, "I worry because of your liver." He blows it off.
He left this morning before we got up. He took without asking, a bicycle, we bought for M. It is new. He has lost dozens of bicycles because he could care less about locking them. He had no right to "take" this bike.
We know he will put all responsibility on us, citing all of the "responsible" things that he did, citing how he "did not want to wake us," that these are things that "I criticize him about." He would act the martyr. He was trying to do the right thing (by taking a bike that was not his, without asking) and he can never please mean old Mom.
M will tell hi: We are not responsible for your doing or not doing what you need to do for himself. M will not accept his BS.
I dread him coming back. His pack and sleeping bag are here. He must come back, so that he can have something to sleep with.
Can I say again how much I dread it?
Honestly, I thought last night, I want to completely insulate myself from him. M said I cannot. I want to. I really do. Now adding to everything is the worry about Bulimia.
I wrote down on a paper the phone numbers and addresses for Section 8, public housing for each of the 4 counties in which he has lived in the past year or has ties. They recommend applying in multiple areas because of the waiting lists. I wrote down, Mental Health Department, Adult services. What more can I do? He either saves himself or he does not.
M (and my son) think I am negative. M wants me to think from hope. To have hope. To look at the half full, not empty. What is my problem? Is it FOO?
COPA
He did it last night. I said to him, "I find vomit when you are here. Are you bulimic?" He comes up with an excuse. He does not at all seem phased. I said, "I worry because of your liver." He blows it off.
He left this morning before we got up. He took without asking, a bicycle, we bought for M. It is new. He has lost dozens of bicycles because he could care less about locking them. He had no right to "take" this bike.
We know he will put all responsibility on us, citing all of the "responsible" things that he did, citing how he "did not want to wake us," that these are things that "I criticize him about." He would act the martyr. He was trying to do the right thing (by taking a bike that was not his, without asking) and he can never please mean old Mom.
M will tell hi: We are not responsible for your doing or not doing what you need to do for himself. M will not accept his BS.
I dread him coming back. His pack and sleeping bag are here. He must come back, so that he can have something to sleep with.
Can I say again how much I dread it?
Honestly, I thought last night, I want to completely insulate myself from him. M said I cannot. I want to. I really do. Now adding to everything is the worry about Bulimia.
I wrote down on a paper the phone numbers and addresses for Section 8, public housing for each of the 4 counties in which he has lived in the past year or has ties. They recommend applying in multiple areas because of the waiting lists. I wrote down, Mental Health Department, Adult services. What more can I do? He either saves himself or he does not.
M (and my son) think I am negative. M wants me to think from hope. To have hope. To look at the half full, not empty. What is my problem? Is it FOO?
COPA
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Copa, I'm more a realist (when I am at my best). I try not to think "glass is half empty" or "glass is half full" if there is evidence one way or the other. If I see a reason to hope, such as changed behavior, I let myself hope, but I am also not a masochist and don't like to be disappointed. I am NOT telling you to be like me, but I know that if I were you, I would not be feeling hopeful now because there is no evidence that Boy is in any way interested in changing. That does not mean he won't, just that he is not showing any signs now. Would I feel negative? Probably. Is that bad? I don't think it's helpful to us, but I do think that right now it is realistic and best to just move on with your life and try not thinking about his problems at all. You can't know if he is truly bulimic or not or maybe he has a bad stomach...at any rate, unless he is willing to get medical help, there is nothing that can be done for it. Taking M's bike was very defiant. He could have asked in a respectful way and perhaps M. would have decided to let him have it, but he just took it. He's not playing fair.
I think our FOOs affect us. My parents were both very negative thinkers so I guess I'm lucky that sometimes (emphasis sometimes) I can be a realist and just look at the facts. If there is a choice between a positive and a negative about something that has not concluded, I tend more toward the negative, but I have gotten better at looking at the facts first and trying to be realistic. Am I perfect at it? LOL, no.
I'm not a big fan of hope, just like I'm not a big fan of anything I can't see or hear or feel. I can't hope for somebody else to do better until they do. I only believe in the spirituality that I believe I have seen and experienced. Etc., etc. etc.
Hope can lead to disappointment. I favor realism and a wait and see attitude. That does not mean to give up. It means that right now, in this moment, it is what is is. It is being mindful. Do not feel bad if you can't feel hopeful about your son at this moment. I did not feel hopeful about my daughter until she actually gave me reasons to rejoice. And your son may yet do that, but he is not there yet.
Copa, never give up. That does not mean hope for something that may be not happen. Just never tell yourself that something will NEVER happen. And go with the flow. See what happens. Be good to you and M. Take each day as it comes and don't do what I do when I am being my absolute worst---jumps leapyears into the future in your mind. Try to calm down and focus on today. Today your son is still relatively ok medically (most of us have SOME medical issues) and he is peppy enough to steal a bike
No, that's not a good thing, but it shows he has normal energy.
Try to slow your mind down. If yours races like mine, it takes work. It is something I w ill have to work on forever, but it is much more peaceful than thinking about the future, which we can't predict, hopefully or negatively.
Please have a nice, nice, peaceful night and try to focus on the now. There are great books out there on how to be mindful. Tara Brach has lots of books on mindfulness.
You take care. I do consider you a dear friend.
I think our FOOs affect us. My parents were both very negative thinkers so I guess I'm lucky that sometimes (emphasis sometimes) I can be a realist and just look at the facts. If there is a choice between a positive and a negative about something that has not concluded, I tend more toward the negative, but I have gotten better at looking at the facts first and trying to be realistic. Am I perfect at it? LOL, no.
I'm not a big fan of hope, just like I'm not a big fan of anything I can't see or hear or feel. I can't hope for somebody else to do better until they do. I only believe in the spirituality that I believe I have seen and experienced. Etc., etc. etc.
Hope can lead to disappointment. I favor realism and a wait and see attitude. That does not mean to give up. It means that right now, in this moment, it is what is is. It is being mindful. Do not feel bad if you can't feel hopeful about your son at this moment. I did not feel hopeful about my daughter until she actually gave me reasons to rejoice. And your son may yet do that, but he is not there yet.
Copa, never give up. That does not mean hope for something that may be not happen. Just never tell yourself that something will NEVER happen. And go with the flow. See what happens. Be good to you and M. Take each day as it comes and don't do what I do when I am being my absolute worst---jumps leapyears into the future in your mind. Try to calm down and focus on today. Today your son is still relatively ok medically (most of us have SOME medical issues) and he is peppy enough to steal a bike
No, that's not a good thing, but it shows he has normal energy.Try to slow your mind down. If yours races like mine, it takes work. It is something I w ill have to work on forever, but it is much more peaceful than thinking about the future, which we can't predict, hopefully or negatively.
Please have a nice, nice, peaceful night and try to focus on the now. There are great books out there on how to be mindful. Tara Brach has lots of books on mindfulness.
You take care. I do consider you a dear friend.
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DoneDad
Well-Known Member
If every interaction you have with son makes you physically, emotionally, and psychologically unwell, how is M having you stay engaged with him helping? I might be reading this wrong, but it seems to me he should be looking out for you and what's best for you. You've given son the list of resources. Seems like you need to distance yourself from him and his choices if it's killing you. You have a right to be happy and healthy.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
DoneDad, M is right there with you. I am too. We will both draw the line. Mhas seen the attitude of my son, not just the most recent incidence and how it affects me, but how my son just pretty much gives us both the finger in all things and in all ways.
You are right.
Thank you.
COPA
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Well, my son came back. He said: I have good news.
M answered, I am not interested. You took my bike without asking.
My son said: You said I could use it whenever I wanted.
M: No I did not. You asked. I said no.
I told my son, I am not interesting in talking. Take your things. Here is a list of Public Housing Authorities in the several counties you have lived recently (4). The next time you take anything from here I will call the police. If you go near the other house I will call the police.
He tried to talk. I said I was not interested. He said: Can I at least take an orange and a glass of water. Take a glass of water and leave. He took his pack and left the sleeping bag. M and I both think he must have found a place to stay for the night and left his sleeping bag so he would have a pretext to return.
I am used to this by now. With my own son and all of yours. You give an inch, they take everything and they stomp on you with their boots.
Still, it feels like sh-t. I feel like sh-t. M does not feel like sh-t but says, I will not try to help him as long as he treats us like his slaves. He does not want family. He wants victims.
COPA
M answered, I am not interested. You took my bike without asking.
My son said: You said I could use it whenever I wanted.
M: No I did not. You asked. I said no.
I told my son, I am not interesting in talking. Take your things. Here is a list of Public Housing Authorities in the several counties you have lived recently (4). The next time you take anything from here I will call the police. If you go near the other house I will call the police.
He tried to talk. I said I was not interested. He said: Can I at least take an orange and a glass of water. Take a glass of water and leave. He took his pack and left the sleeping bag. M and I both think he must have found a place to stay for the night and left his sleeping bag so he would have a pretext to return.
I am used to this by now. With my own son and all of yours. You give an inch, they take everything and they stomp on you with their boots.
Still, it feels like sh-t. I feel like sh-t. M does not feel like sh-t but says, I will not try to help him as long as he treats us like his slaves. He does not want family. He wants victims.
COPA
TheWalrus
I Am The Walrus
I found the "Can I at least take an orange and a glass of water" question interesting. I cannot count the number of times, after I have reached my fill and had enough, that my daughter has said, "Can I at least...?" Because the irony is there is no "least." They take the most they can, no matter how large or small, just get us to give "one more thing."
You are probably right about the sleeping bag, Copa. It is probably an excuse to return, a door left cracked for re-entry, no matter how short or unwelcome the stay. I am going through my own issues right now of "No means no" and keeping strong boundaries in the midst of feeling so weak.
My heart goes out to you, Copa. Stay strong. I know it's hard.
You are probably right about the sleeping bag, Copa. It is probably an excuse to return, a door left cracked for re-entry, no matter how short or unwelcome the stay. I am going through my own issues right now of "No means no" and keeping strong boundaries in the midst of feeling so weak.
My heart goes out to you, Copa. Stay strong. I know it's hard.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
My heart goes out to us, too. What is left of it.
I feel so crushed to almost hate the child I have adored.
I mean, I feel compelled to whine: What did I do to deserve this? To be broken into pieces. When he is away from here, I am so better. I had five months of doing better, every week, a little better. I have fallen back. If it would help, I would say, I want to die. But I really do not want to. My life has the potential to be better than it has ever been.
But, today, I feel like dying. It is the incredible way that all of this makes you want to just destroy yourself in order to escape the agony.
I am sorry I do not feel stronger. I do not. I feel crushed.
Thank you, Walrus, for responding. It means so much to me.
COPA
Take it from someone with several autoimmune illnesses...Lupus and so forth...the body canNOT tolerate this type of stress on a frequent basis. You have said "I feel like dying" or something similar, more than once. What type of message might this be giving to your immune system, your very cells? Sounds sort of mumbo jumbo, but I believe scientists have and continue to discover a direct link medically between the body and mind. Not only what damage it might be doing to you physically, but very obviously mentally. Just like we tell our Difficult Child to take responsibility for their thoughts, actions, choices, reactions....I believe we too as parents have to model this very same thing and protect our physical and mental health by setting boundaries, removing ourselves from excessive stressors, taking breaks (sometimes very long ones), adopting a new attitude...etc.
I can give you a small, indirect example. Our Difficult Child can't budget her food (although it has gotten a tiny bit better recently). When we would go out of town, she inevitably would call us hysterically that she was starving and would beg for us to help her and would actually threaten to beg on the streets. Years ago, this bothered me terribly. Today, if we are going out of town for a long time, I give her a little gc to the food store and tell her it is for emergencies only. She has a system in place for food. Chances are she will use the small gc unwisely. I don't care. And she would call with the same begging and hysteria. But, it didn't work. I did a little something for her (giving her a small gc for emergencies and that was all I was going to do...I did extra...there is no more than extra). And that was all I would do. I set my boundary in several ways. I drew the line. No matter what hysterics took place, it went in one ear and out the other. Peace...for myself. I suppose, chaos for her. Learn or not learn,I didn't and don't care. So, she became acquainted with the food bank. Good for her. I don't care. Free at last, free at last. Thank G.d I'm free at last. Besides me finding peace, she is actually doing a little better in this department.
This story might not fully apply in your case. Your situation does sound complicated. But I hope you can free yourself emotionally from this torment. And please take ultra good care of yourself..all the usual stuff...healthy foods, vitamins and so forth.
Blessings.
I can give you a small, indirect example. Our Difficult Child can't budget her food (although it has gotten a tiny bit better recently). When we would go out of town, she inevitably would call us hysterically that she was starving and would beg for us to help her and would actually threaten to beg on the streets. Years ago, this bothered me terribly. Today, if we are going out of town for a long time, I give her a little gc to the food store and tell her it is for emergencies only. She has a system in place for food. Chances are she will use the small gc unwisely. I don't care. And she would call with the same begging and hysteria. But, it didn't work. I did a little something for her (giving her a small gc for emergencies and that was all I was going to do...I did extra...there is no more than extra). And that was all I would do. I set my boundary in several ways. I drew the line. No matter what hysterics took place, it went in one ear and out the other. Peace...for myself. I suppose, chaos for her. Learn or not learn,I didn't and don't care. So, she became acquainted with the food bank. Good for her. I don't care. Free at last, free at last. Thank G.d I'm free at last. Besides me finding peace, she is actually doing a little better in this department.
This story might not fully apply in your case. Your situation does sound complicated. But I hope you can free yourself emotionally from this torment. And please take ultra good care of yourself..all the usual stuff...healthy foods, vitamins and so forth.
Blessings.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I feel embarrassed, Nomad. Especially with the death of KLMNO in our hearts and minds.
I am trying hard on the FOO threads to understand why I abandon myself and trash myself when there are difficult interactions or disappointments with my son.
While I am better, greatly better, when he is not around me, I am very much afflicted when he is. He treats us so badly. I feel abused by him.
I am the parent, and I feel abused by my own child. I become enraged and then I turn the anger against myself. It is not a dynamic I am proud of.
M and I have for a long time been talking about moving across country for awhile, but we keep taking on more responsibilities.
I think I will for now make a very strict boundary. I will make sure that I observe it. I will adopt some practices of self-care. I will report back on them here.
I have an ulcer I think for which I see a doctor on Thursday. I have to step up. I know that.
I will try to find a way to take myself and my welfare more seriously.
Thank you.
COPA
I am trying hard on the FOO threads to understand why I abandon myself and trash myself when there are difficult interactions or disappointments with my son.
While I am better, greatly better, when he is not around me, I am very much afflicted when he is. He treats us so badly. I feel abused by him.
I am the parent, and I feel abused by my own child. I become enraged and then I turn the anger against myself. It is not a dynamic I am proud of.
I agree with you.
M and I have for a long time been talking about moving across country for awhile, but we keep taking on more responsibilities.
I think I will for now make a very strict boundary. I will make sure that I observe it. I will adopt some practices of self-care. I will report back on them here.
I have an ulcer I think for which I see a doctor on Thursday. I have to step up. I know that.
I will try to find a way to take myself and my welfare more seriously.
Thank you.
COPA
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This pain certainly is powerful and unique and I'm so sorry. I spent time in therapy shaking it all out. I have spent years shaking my fist at G.d because it is so unfair for my Difficult Child and for our family. It seems sick and cruel. I am, for the most part, past that. I rarely think of that anymore.
Your son's poor choices are certainly not your fault. I too get stuck on that one. We have friends who are in a certain profession and their two children are also in that profession, even though one of the children struggled terribly to get there. Why didn't he just give up? How did he stay motivated under such great odds? We have other friends with three kids. One doesn't have a lot of self motivation and isn't exceptionally bright. Yet, this one and the other two all...even with all their individual difficulties earned Masters degrees in their areas of interest. So, I'm right their with you because I perseverate on this all the time and am embarrassed by it. I feel like the parents have some special skill that I "obviously" lack. I honestly suspect it is something "special" the parents did that encouraged those kids to move forward. Some would have done it on their own, but others more than likely NOT. Why did they listen to the good advice of their parents even though the task presented to them was exceptionally hard ? Will it backfire later? (I kinda doubt they will regret getting a Masters degree). And maybe I'm wrong and the parents didn't influence them all that much.
But, my hubby reminds me that our Difficult Child is mentally ill. All bets are off. And, mixed in there, is great difficulty learning from last mistakes. I know she can learn from past mistakes, but it seems very difficult.
This is why I am willing to help her. I'm willing to give her the emergency gc. I'm willing to give her extra...but unless there is a TRUE documented emergency, there is no "more than extra." I hope that makes sense. She has to figure out how to make it in this world. She has to be grateful for the little extras she is supplied with. She has to stop taking advantage of me and her father and do whatever she can to go forward.
And there is evidence that she is doing just that. Painfully slowly, but she is going forward and this is good for both of us.
Ironically, I had a blood test go south on me just recently and themain difference between the two tests was stress. Perhaps for the first time ...not Difficult Child stress. I think it can influence our health negatively, especially when it is constant.
So, if there is some sort of way you can help your son minimally , but then set a boundary and step away...it is a concept to think about. It is something that has worked with me.
My apologies for being harsh. You don't need that. This situation is so very painful. I have cried and cried over the years. I am in a certain place right now with my health and in a weird way, it has made me stronger, I don't have choices left, I have to be stronger. I don't like being this sick and I recognize the excessive stress is hurting my health and I wouldn't want to see it hurt yours or anyone else's.
Thank goodness for M...this is a huge blessing. I'm fortunate for my husband as well.
I'm glad you agreed to take care of your health...needs to be a priority!
Blessings.
Your son's poor choices are certainly not your fault. I too get stuck on that one. We have friends who are in a certain profession and their two children are also in that profession, even though one of the children struggled terribly to get there. Why didn't he just give up? How did he stay motivated under such great odds? We have other friends with three kids. One doesn't have a lot of self motivation and isn't exceptionally bright. Yet, this one and the other two all...even with all their individual difficulties earned Masters degrees in their areas of interest. So, I'm right their with you because I perseverate on this all the time and am embarrassed by it. I feel like the parents have some special skill that I "obviously" lack. I honestly suspect it is something "special" the parents did that encouraged those kids to move forward. Some would have done it on their own, but others more than likely NOT. Why did they listen to the good advice of their parents even though the task presented to them was exceptionally hard ? Will it backfire later? (I kinda doubt they will regret getting a Masters degree). And maybe I'm wrong and the parents didn't influence them all that much.
But, my hubby reminds me that our Difficult Child is mentally ill. All bets are off. And, mixed in there, is great difficulty learning from last mistakes. I know she can learn from past mistakes, but it seems very difficult.
This is why I am willing to help her. I'm willing to give her the emergency gc. I'm willing to give her extra...but unless there is a TRUE documented emergency, there is no "more than extra." I hope that makes sense. She has to figure out how to make it in this world. She has to be grateful for the little extras she is supplied with. She has to stop taking advantage of me and her father and do whatever she can to go forward.
And there is evidence that she is doing just that. Painfully slowly, but she is going forward and this is good for both of us.
Ironically, I had a blood test go south on me just recently and themain difference between the two tests was stress. Perhaps for the first time ...not Difficult Child stress. I think it can influence our health negatively, especially when it is constant.
So, if there is some sort of way you can help your son minimally , but then set a boundary and step away...it is a concept to think about. It is something that has worked with me.
My apologies for being harsh. You don't need that. This situation is so very painful. I have cried and cried over the years. I am in a certain place right now with my health and in a weird way, it has made me stronger, I don't have choices left, I have to be stronger. I don't like being this sick and I recognize the excessive stress is hurting my health and I wouldn't want to see it hurt yours or anyone else's.
Thank goodness for M...this is a huge blessing. I'm fortunate for my husband as well.
I'm glad you agreed to take care of your health...needs to be a priority!
Blessings.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
Yes.
But it is a dynamic you are aware of, and that is a place to stand. You are being abused by your child. Like my daughter was doing too, your son is hurting you with exquisite precision. He is angry, too. He does not have what he wants ~ which is domination over you and M and your home. He wants you afraid in your own home, in your own life, Copa.
You had to stand up.
You did.
Walrus, Nomad, Albatross, New Leaf, SWOT ~ each of us saying the same thing, Copa. When our children are behaving in these ways for whatever reason there is no alternative but to parent them by The Rules of Engagement to the letter.
There is no alternative, Copa.
To parent in those ways will destroy something fine and beautiful within you. To parent in any other way will destroy you altogether. We have all read the stories of the aging parents being physically, emotionally, and financially abused by their live-in adult children.
You cannot let him move home, Copa.
There is another way ~ there has to be.
It is all about being able to meet our own eyes in the mirror.
It may be that a time will come when you can have relationship with this Son. Now is not that time. Now is the time of The Rules of Engagement. You have had your son living in your home, Copa. To have him there altered and nearly destroyed your relationship to M and affected your health.
It did not help Son.
I remember your posting about the oranges. About the black eye.
If it were up to Son, you would be very sick, and...M would be gone.
There are certain rules you and M discussed, Copa. Now is the time those rules were made for. Walrus is right. There is not one thing about any of this that is easy or pleasant or easily remembered. It is a terrible thing that this has happened. But it has happened. It is happening. Son must understand in no uncertain terms what you will and what you will not, do. You must understand Son is playing you.
Don't buy in, Copa.
Fight it.
You are right. It isn't supposed to be this way. I remember Headlights Mom's post about gratitude. Though she wrote it differently, what I took from it and have taken comfort from in it is this: That we hold our memories of when we loved them close as breath. They cannot take those times away when we loved them, Copa. Whatever is happening to that child turned adult, we can and should and must cherish that time, cherish all those times when our children were little "lest we grow cold."
Lest we grow cold, Copa. Lest we grow bitter and brittle and break.
Your son is a man. He was hungry. You fed him. Unless you will work with him to turn him into someone who begs for his dinner and for a place to sleep you must send him away, Copa.
For his own sake.
He is not getting younger.
I think it was responsible of you to have given him the numbers of Social Services. What you cannot do Copa, for Son's own sake, is allow him to move into your home or worse yet, to torture and shame all of you by sleeping outside any of your properties. Somehow, Son seems to think you are responsible for him in the same way you were when he was six.
You cannot encourage that kind of thinking, Copa. For Son's own sake, you cannot. That is another huge difference between all other parents and ourselves: Their illusions about themselves as parents, and about the wonder that was born into their lives when they had their children, are intact.
We have no illusions.
Those we have not yet burnt away will further destroy our children and kill us.
Literally.
So, here is a way to see this time maybe, Copa. In the Wizard of Oz, before Dorothy could learn any of the things she needed to learn to face and stand up in and cherish her own life, the house had to be whirled off from its very foundations and up into the sky.
It landed on something very evil, killing it dead as a doornail and freeing Dorothy in some way she was never to understand.
And there was a journey through a world where nothing was known, and where the old knowings did not apply.
And at the end, it was learned that Home is a matter of Choosing.
So right now Copa, you are whirling through the stormy sky, soon to land on something Evil, killing it dead as a doornail.
All you have to do right now is hold tight to Toto, and remember who you are.
You can do this, Copa.
You have done harder things for people you loved less passionately than you love your Son.
I am sorry for the pain of it, Copa.
Your son should be protecting and cherishing both you, and himself.
But he isn't.
Cedar
FOO issues enter into this is this way, I think: We have been taught that the abuser is satisfied when we suffer. When we break. It could be that you break now to protect your child; to make him stop destroying himself and hurting you. That is where our thinking gets messed up, Copa. FOO was not healthy. Anything we learned there cannot help us now. It can only hurt us. We need to be stronger than we have been in our lives, Copa.
There is no one to help us know what to do, now. But we are very bright. We see what has made a difference for other parents and their difficult child sons and daughters.
So, if we are very strong (and we are) we do that.
We will be waiting to hear, Copa.
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I will check out the FOO thread when I can. Interesting. It is a HUGE thread. I was at a social event and bumped into a childhood friend, who is a physician. His father and my father were best friends. My father was a narcissist supreme. His father had some major personality disorder...don't know which one. He looked at me and said "Let's face it...our father's were dogs! " he then said he didn't realize it until he was an adult how badly his father's behaviors negatively influenced him. Holy cow...for me as well. My father, the big narcissist, led me to believe that everything that went wrong in his life, the family life, perhaps the universe, was MY fault. Say what? I can't control HIS behaviors. His choices, decisions,reactions, actions, lack of actions. He was the adult, I the child. Perhaps in some small way, due to having to take care of a young child, at times, a parent has to tweak their choices for the good of the child. True. But, that is about it. I was not responsible for HIM. Perhaps Copa, you think that you are ultimately responsible for your son. But, your son is not a little child. Even if he were,that would be debatable. He is a full grown man. Don't let him manipulate you. Maybe your mom was an expert in that crxp. I know my father was. Took me decades to sort that insanity out and I'm still working it out a bit here and there.
Stay strong. you are caring, capable, brilliant and you will figure out what is right for you and your situation.
Stay strong. you are caring, capable, brilliant and you will figure out what is right for you and your situation.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
It is 6:30 am where I live. I have not been to sleep. I just ate a whole box of crackers. I will be back after I try to sleep.
Thank you all,
COPA
Thank you all,
COPA
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I think I learned that if somebody I loved was not happy or OK, if I self-destructed, it made it better.
It is not that I am snowed by the manipulations of my son. I think I am traumatized by how he treats me. Horrified. I think I feel guilty. That it is my fault. That he must treat me this way because I am a bad mother, like I must have been a bad and undeserving child or my parents would have treated me better. My fault. Not theirs. My fault. Not his.
Of course this is neither logical nor correct. But it is remembered in a deep way.
His stupid, martyr attitude of not taking responsibility for anything, just fills me with frustration (and even contempt, if the truth be told.) I do not feel guilty in reality. I feel responsible because it must be my fault. I try to stop the train wreck. So I default back to childhood, when I just killed my spirit off.
It is a horrible thing. I watch myself do it.
I am horrified that my son does not care about me. I know in his way he loves me, but he is unaware or indifferent to how he affects me. Just like my parents were.
So, I throw myself on the funeral pyre.
If I have to keep him entirely away from me, until I feel I can master this in myself, I will. I am getting to the point where I matter to me almost as much as he matters to me.
Thank you Nomad, for speaking up for us. I am grateful.
COPA
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New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Copa, I am so sorry for all of this. It is my story with my two as well.
It does feel like sh-t.
Feel what you feel and let it all out.
It is not good to hold it in.
You are upfront and honest about how you are feeling.
Good.
Now, to build back up.
M tried again to help your son.
If M did not try, he would be left again to wonder.
We love our kids and want them to get better.
It is a whole different dynamic when they are near.
M wanted to try something, to give son a chance.
In no time, it became more and more clear, the lack of reciprocation, appreciation. Viewing a bit of help and you both as things to take advantage of.
I think each time we go through this cycle, we learn and grow a little bit more. I would like to think the kids learn too, that they cannot take us for granted, that we are not easy marks anymore.
They leave it up to us to teach them this.
We reinforce in our own hearts and minds what we tell others, we cannot have this in our homes. Copa, it is the same you wrote to me when Rain came and so menacingly got up in my face. Yours is more gradual, not suddenly aggressive. But stressful, abusive and health destroying.
It is unacceptable.
You deserve peace of mind in your home. Your home is your sanctuary.
Rain is not well either. She is crippled by her meth use. A different worldview than what she was taught. It has made me her enemy. Her own mother. She triangulates, gravitates towards her dad, who is willing to help her. She seeks to drive a wedge between us and would have me gone. The motive is to get back in the house, and she does not care about the damage she does to get this. Her father does not see this. He wants to help.
Some how, some day, he will see that helping does not help, that crippled by meth use or not, Rain is an adult and must learn to make better choices, we will not be around forever to rescue her.
These kids do not view us the way we view them. Maybe from afar, but when near, they take and take and take. We want them to be better, but when they are near and we help, they regress. They take us down with them. They would have us sickly and bereft and confused, on our knees.
It is because standing strong, we would not put up with the machinations.
With the pain of each encounter and what it does to us we are learning.
One of the things we have found out when faced with the pain of this, is that it connects to the things we went through with our FOO.
For me, it is because the feeling is very familiar. The feeling of powerlessness, also that inner child voice telling me that something is very wrong with being abused by someone I love.
But we are not powerless. We have control over ourselves now. Our homes.
You have done your parenting, and tried over and again to help your son. This time, it was M, who needed to try. You stood in the background Copa, because you have already recognized what happens to you when your son is near.
This is huge.
It does not take away from the feelings rearing up when everything comes to an ugly head.
You gave son a list of places he can go, the rest is up to him.
It is the same for my Rain, and Tornado and my grands. They will not be allowed back in the house to take us hostage and ravage through whatever they want, including my heart.
This takes incredible work and constant vigilance over emotions. Especially since I was taught early on, that it was okay to sacrifice myself for the needs of others.
No more. No more ravaging by them and sinking into the pit of despair by me.
No more for you, either.
It is the best message we could give our d cs.
Despite our great and everlasting love for them, we will not let them destroy us.
Nothing good could ever come from that Copa, for them or for us.
Their success in finding their purpose and meaning, depends largely on us standing up and refusing to be disrespected.
I am sorry for the pain and hardship of it. I see by your posts that you are growing ever stronger, and that is a good thing, as much for your son, as it is for you.
(((Hugs)))
leafy
Feeling Sad
Well-Known Member
Very well put, Leafy. Most excellent, fellow warrior, Leafy.
Copa, you have given him the resources that HE may utilize. It is on him now.
I have read on numerous other sites, that when an adult child refuses to see reason and perform the basic fundamentals of life, sometimes the ONLY thing that we as parents can do is take care of OURSELVES.
We need to show, by example, what we will or will not tolerate. In fact, we are showing them what society at large will or will not tolerate.
You need to heal and support you right now. Do not lose an inch of ground that you have gained in your healing.
We, as parents, will not be around forever. What then?
If we are mere shadows of our former selves when they do finally rally and their lives fall into the proper places...what then?
We need to be strong to show that they too have the ability to be strong. We need to be their role models.
I constantly think back to how my beloved son acted, before the ravages of schizophrenia took over. It is always so difficult for me to write this...
I think of how he would want me to feel right now. Scared? Anxious? Worried? Tired? Sad? Tearing myself down?
No. He would have truly hated any of these realities. We owe it to ourselves AND to our greatly loved Difficult Child's to strive to become our former selves.
They need to see and FEEL this reality.
Strong individuals that have healthy boundaries. Parents that demand respect.
Copa, your armor might have numerous dings and a few deep gouges, but it IS very much intact!
You, Copa, ARE very strong! I am very proud of you. Stand your ground, dear sister.
Your son has a better chance of improving by not living in your house. Yes, it is probably the most difficult feat to accomplish. Yet, it needs to be done from a place of love...and hope.
P.S. I visualize that your are, of course, wearing a lovely, flowing appropriately colored tunic, in line with the ever-slimming 'column dressing', under your armor. Hmmm...perhaps a muted gray to go with your battle-weary armor. One must strive to always look their best, even in battle! (Sorry, a bit of levity always helps me).
P.S.S. Pleasant dreams.
Copa, you have given him the resources that HE may utilize. It is on him now.
I have read on numerous other sites, that when an adult child refuses to see reason and perform the basic fundamentals of life, sometimes the ONLY thing that we as parents can do is take care of OURSELVES.
We need to show, by example, what we will or will not tolerate. In fact, we are showing them what society at large will or will not tolerate.
You need to heal and support you right now. Do not lose an inch of ground that you have gained in your healing.
We, as parents, will not be around forever. What then?
If we are mere shadows of our former selves when they do finally rally and their lives fall into the proper places...what then?
We need to be strong to show that they too have the ability to be strong. We need to be their role models.
I constantly think back to how my beloved son acted, before the ravages of schizophrenia took over. It is always so difficult for me to write this...
I think of how he would want me to feel right now. Scared? Anxious? Worried? Tired? Sad? Tearing myself down?
No. He would have truly hated any of these realities. We owe it to ourselves AND to our greatly loved Difficult Child's to strive to become our former selves.
They need to see and FEEL this reality.
Strong individuals that have healthy boundaries. Parents that demand respect.
Copa, your armor might have numerous dings and a few deep gouges, but it IS very much intact!
You, Copa, ARE very strong! I am very proud of you. Stand your ground, dear sister.
Your son has a better chance of improving by not living in your house. Yes, it is probably the most difficult feat to accomplish. Yet, it needs to be done from a place of love...and hope.
P.S. I visualize that your are, of course, wearing a lovely, flowing appropriately colored tunic, in line with the ever-slimming 'column dressing', under your armor. Hmmm...perhaps a muted gray to go with your battle-weary armor. One must strive to always look their best, even in battle! (Sorry, a bit of levity always helps me).
P.S.S. Pleasant dreams.
